Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Disposablehero Jul 28, 2009 21:12:09	I wanted to try my hands at playing a bard for the first time. What really is their role in the party? How do they work? I was curious if there were any races that worked particularly well with bards, or if anyone knew any effective builds using the class. Any prestige classes that work well with them? A friend of mine suggested going from bard to dragon disciple, but doesn't this go against where a bard's talents are? Any help?
#2 mervin_magnus Jul 28, 2009 21:56:26	It REALLY depends on how you design your bard. Here's the jist of it. They buff people with their songs They heal, buff, or do something clever with their spells They Know almost ANYTHING using bardic knowledge Just if you are curious: one day a friend told me, "bards are the worst class" so I built something to prove him wrong. Here it is: Tiawyn Magusong of the Flaming Lute, of the house of Tyrundlin Bard 4/ Arcane Duelist 2/ Seeker of the Song 7/ Sublime Chord 6/ Spellsinger 1 Race: Wendigo (it's a disease) Star Elf This build is designed for everything: You get really good casting from Sublime Chord You get really good affects for your song with seeker of the song (many OFFENSIVE) Arcane Duelist and Wendigo BOTH give you Charisma to your AC Spell Singer lets you trade your songs to use spells (1 song = 1 spell level) I suggest you take the feat "melodic casting," as it allows you to still cast spells if you are playing a song. I also suggest you take "extra song," especially if you're going to use this build. Bards can easily eat up their songs fast. P.S. If you don't like wendigo you don't have to be one, this is just a build, you can alter it (or not even use it) if you don't want to
#3 dandu Jul 28, 2009 22:11:49	Your generic bard is a 5th wheel, but you can build bards to take over any role with reasonable effectiveness.
#4 thebigstupidfighter Jul 28, 2009 22:13:34	A Bard's role in the party can be summed up in two basic points: 1) Where the party is weak, fill in the gaps 2) Where the party is strong, improve their effectiveness I know this sounds really ambiguous, but that’s just what the Bard is, a sort of renaissance man that can do a bit of everything. I don't know muck about races, never played a Bard myself, but as for a build wht about Bard 4/ Warblade 1/ Jade Pheonix mage 10/ War Weaver 5 What you lose: Casting: You lose only 4 levels of casting, meaning you get your sixth level spells, the highest a Bard can attain. Still very effective, almost as good as a full Bard. Inspire Courage: There is a feat somewhere (please someone post the book and the name if you know it) that lets you add your initiator level to your Bard level for the purpose of Inspire Courage, the most iconic (and probably most powerful) class ability of a Bard. Up until level 20 (when a Bard gets +4 and you will not) you have this ability at full power. Other Bard abilities: Yeah you lose most of these, but, they weren't that great to begin with. What you gain: Maneuvers: At fifth level you gain second level maneuvers, meaning lots of nice tricks for you. Your initiator level keeps going up until at level 15 you have an initiator level of 13, granting you seventh level maneuvers, which, with careful selection, can make you a dangerous opponent in your own right, beside your ability to buff the rest of the party. BAB: At level 15, your BAB is a fourteen, very impressive in my book. After that it drops off, leaving you with a +16 BAB at level 20, still slightly better than a Bard and, hey, that gives you a fourth attack. Emerald Pheonix Immolation: Jade Pheonix Mage is an awesome class, with 8/10 spellcasting and full BAB progression as well as awesome abilities. The real jaw dropper, however, is its final ability. At level 15, you will be able to blow yourself up at any time, dealing 10d6 damage to all enemies nearby (half is untyped btw, meaning this hurts GODS, *****!) and killing you instantly. 10 minutes later you reform at full health. Weaving: The War Weaver is a very impressive class, meant for wizards and thus unfortunately only giving you a d4 hit die. It offers 4/5 spellcasting progression. To sum up the class: 1) all of your normally single target buffs affect the entire party. 2) you can cast buffs at the beginning of the day (or anytime, really) and later release them, all at the same time, to help your party out of a tight spot. The umber of spells you can store progresses as you gain class levels 3) at fifth level, any spell cast through your "tapestry" has its range increased. At some point (level nine is when you will qualify) take Martail Study to get White Raven Tactics, one of the single greatest manuevers in existence and also very well flavored to a Bard. As a swift action, it allows you to grant a standard action to any charachter (including yourself) This is a very powerfull combat build, with amazing buffing ability and signifigantly more powerful in combat than your average Bard, but you have far fewer skills. If this is a problem, or if there is a specific aspect of the Bard you would like to emphasize more, let me know and I'll come up with something.
#5 pithica Jul 28, 2009 22:26:38	I wanted to try my hands at playing a bard for the first time. What really is their role in the party? How do they work? Bard's Handbook Tool's for Fochlucan Lyricist builds Optimizing Inspire Courage Bard's Inspire Courage Bards that I build usually play a mix of Glass-Cannon/Martyrs in combat and generally play Face/Utility Knife/Corpses out of combat. With the right build, and feats, they can be melee monsters, dishing out massive damage. On top of that, much of that damage can be shared out to the group, so that the entire group's DPR goes up. I was curious if there were any races that worked particularly well with bards, or if anyone knew any effective builds using the class. Humans. There are a few others that work better in some situations, but you almost cannot go wrong with a bonus feat. My favorite builds are... Savage Bard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 7/Mindbender 1 Savage Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Battle Howler of Gruumsh 5/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 6 (requires Orc or Half-orc) Bard 10/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8 Bard 5/Lyric Thaumaturge 5/Sublime Chord 1/Virtuoso 9 There are plenty of others. Any prestige classes that work well with them? A few. A friend of mine suggested going from bard to dragon disciple, but doesn't this go against where a bard's talents are? Any help? Dragon Disciple's a trap, don't go into that marsh. I vaguely remember a few builds that worked well with it, but not many. What you want is to optimize for Inspire Courage and get as close to 9th level spells (preferrably 9ths) as you can, while taking advantage of your inherent abilities as a 5th wheel. A bard really shines in the 8-15 range, where the [Mind Affecting] immunities aren't as prevalent, and IC can really be overkill. In my current campaign, we have two bards in the group. 1. is using a variation of the Orc 'Bard-barian' above as a charger build. He can pump out (at 12th) damage in the 100-200/round easily, and grants a +5 to everyone else's attacks/damage while he's at it. 2. is a bard/marshall/Mythic Exemplar mix, focusing on dragonfire inspiration ([Sonic]). He doesn't do nearly as much damage himself but he adds 5d6 Sonic to everyone's damage (for just about all attacks) and an additional +2 from Marshall Auras (plus he gives everyone Fast healing if they're under half health). It's pretty dang gross at our average level (~11), and when both are playing, we generally have no fights longer than 2 rounds, even vs CR 16-19 encounters.
#6 malkavon Jul 29, 2009 5:40:16	Of note, Half-Elves make excellent bards, what with their sub-levels appearing in Races of Destiny. Also, Half-Elves can take the Bardic Knack substitution + Elf Dilettante (Races of the Wild) and effectively have cross-class ranks in every skill. It's no Able Learner + Factotum, but it's not too shabby.
#7 Senevri Jul 29, 2009 8:17:41	I don't know muck about races, never played a Bard myself, but as for a build wht about Bard 4/ Warblade 1/ Jade Pheonix mage 10/ War Weaver 5 I like it, but... Inspire Courage: There is a feat somewhere (please someone post the book and the name if you know it) that lets you add your initiator level to your Bard level for the purpose of Inspire Courage, the most iconic (and probably most powerful) class ability of a Bard. Up until level 20 (when a Bard gets +4 and you will not) you have this ability at full power. This is wrong. You have IC of level 5. Only WB and Crusader levels stack. Sorry. (ToB Song of the White Raven.) It's still a decent build. Significantly better one would be Bard 4/Warblade 1/JPM 4/War Weaver 1/Subchord 2/JPM+4/War Weaver +4. You get roughly the same, net up to quickening strike and 9th level spells.
#8 auxitius Jul 29, 2009 8:35:36	You could also take a quick gander at my fusion of the Dread Pirate and Bard class. The Bard / Swashbuckler / Dread Pirate / Marshal is a quite funny combo and gives you several swag abilities to play with to enhance your entire group (not to mention all of your followers!).