bard/druid dilemma - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jgumbyrx May 27, 2009 17:59:54	alright, long story short: I'm wanting to play a bard/druid in an upcoming campaign (yea -- I finally get a break from dming). The problem I'm having is this: too many feats, not enough feat slots. the level build is: NG Human Bard 2 / Druid 3 / Green Whisperer 5 / Arcane Hierophant 10 we're starting at level 3 -- and is going to be a low-magic game. Also, I'm not sure how long this game will go, so I'm just planning for 20; though, the feeling that I'm getting is that it may not go passed 15. I would have rather gone Fochlucan Lyrist, but the DM is being a pain in the butt about it. The race/levels/classes are a done deal, I just wanted some feedback on feat selection. Basically, I know that I'm gonna have to focus in only one area, but I'm torn on which way to go. Here is the pool of possible feats that I have put together to pull from: possible feats able learner spell focus (conj) augment summoning greenbond summoning imbued summoning natural bond obtain familiar theurgic bond companion spellbound versitile performer hymnist lingering song focused performer focused performance melodic casting clap of thunder summon elemental prac. spellcasting fast wild shape swift wild shape natural spell
#2 jgumbyrx May 27, 2009 20:51:35	Oh, one more thing... the rest of the party will consist of a barbarian/FB, a generalist fighter, and a cleric heal-bot. I had originally thought rogue/druid, but the DM assures us that a "trapfinder" will not be essential.
#3 pithica May 27, 2009 21:15:43	First off, I have to say 311 is my new favorite issue of Dragon. I've built 2 Battle Howlers for other people and never once noticed Green Whisperer, right next door. Anyway. You don't need obtain familiar for the Companion Familiar class feature to work. It specifically caveats the 'lose your familiar' line with, 'if you have one'. Likewise, Theurgic Bond won't do anything...Well, technically it could effectively let you double your base class level for AC benefits, but I have a feeling the DM you're describing won't let that fly. Especially with as powerful as a base 13/13 companion familiar can be when used properly. He's probably not going to let companion spellbond count, if he would, though, I would consider the better feat from Dragon Compendium: Enspell Familiar, which extends the range on share spells out to a mile. I think Fast Wild Shape and Swift Wildshape are useless. By level 15ish, when you'll actually start using wildshape (in combat), you should be able to afford a Mantle of the Beast (Complete Champion 140), which does it for you without a feat (only 18k) or costing you wildshape uses. Let's see...That leaves... Show able learner spell focus (conj) augment summoning greenbond summoning imbued summoning natural bond versitile performer hymnist lingering song focused performer focused performance melodic casting clap of thunder summon elemental prac. spellcasting natural spell
#4 corania May 27, 2009 21:31:31	Hrmm... I am not sure I have a feel for the character concept you are going for, but I will give this a shot. Since you wont be getting Wild Shape for some time you don't really have a shot at being a front line fighter, and your party isn't really hurting for those anyway. I think I would focus on summoning critters with my Summons Nature's Ally ability and then buffing them with the bardic abilities (and other druid spells). I would talk to the players of the cleric and barbarian and ask them about roles they will be playing. If the barbarian has the wilderness skills covered (likely needed in a game where you aren't dealing with traps... just a guess), then you are going to need to make sure you grabbing those. On the other hand you also need to check with the cleric and see if he is covering the face type skills. Try to talk them into covering these to leave you a bit freer, but if you need to cover these then Able Learner is a good choice to make sure you don't slip in your duties... otherwise I would pass on it. I don't have access to the Green Whisperer prestige class from Dragon #311, but my next advice might be irrelevant if it adds bardic music uses... not sure. Since you will only have 2 uses of bard out of the gate and at least for a while still, you might consider taking extra music. Not something I normally would recommend for a bard (they would get lots) but if you are just dipping it can give you enough uses to make things worthwhile. Once that is taken care of I would look to do whatever I could to buff up my inspire courage ability. There is a handbook out there for pumping this up and you will want to use whatever tricks you can (the swift spell, mw horn, etc.) to get this up around +3-4 if you can. (note: this will be a huge boon to your party as well) After that I would focus on feats that enhance your summoning. Augment Summoning and Greenbound Summoning jump out as the ones that will buff your summons up the most. Memorize spells that will allow you most effectively buff your summons and your party (they can all be swapped out anyway) as the cleric should have healing and dealing with conditions covered. Your roll then should be to buff the party and increase the size of the party to best take advantage of those buffs. Be cognizant of the situations out there and don't forget to set up flanking and when necessary have your animals use aid other actions as well. Using the feat suggestions above you should have some pretty powerful summons, but if you find the party and/or DM is annoyed with you having too many critters on the board you should try and just summon a single bigger creature instead of multiples. Also be aware that out of the gate you are going to have some trouble directly contributing to combat. You will have only a +1 BAB and aren't geared to get in a melee fight... make sure you have a bow on you. Your summons at this level (bard 2/druid 1) will also kind of blow since you will only have a 1-round duration, but it isn't really worth taking practiced spellcaster just to fix this at low levels unless you can train it out later. Anyway... just my meandering thoughts. Sean Mahoney
#5 jgumbyrx May 27, 2009 21:45:29	WOW! That was a little more comprehensive that I was expecting -- THANKS. That being said, lets test some of this (in a good way): You don't need obtain familiar for the Companion Familiar class feature to work. It specifically caveats the 'lose your familiar' line with, 'if you have one'. Likewise, Theurgic Bond won't do anything...Well, technically it could effectively let you double your base class level for AC benefits, but I have a feeling the DM you're describing won't let that fly. Especially with as powerful as a base 13/13 companion familiar can be when used properly. ... The difference between effective druid level 13 and 16 is 2 hit dice and +2 to nat (and one bonus trick). You're already getting Improved Evasion from the familiar side of things, so I'd drop Natural Bond as well. If I do this, then at 10th lvl, my AC will be that of a druid 3. obtain familiar + theurgic bond will pump that up to 10th. (BTW, the one thing the DM does appreciate is a pimped-out AC). Natural Bond gives it some survivability until I'm able to get Theurgic Bond at 9th (after that, it's just gravy). As far as my music being nerfed, it's not my DM so much as it's the fact that I'll never get the increases. Song of the Heart was definitely on my radar, but I'm not sure how the DM will take it, since he is anti-"anything Eberron" (I'll give it a shot). Everything else seems spot-on. Thanks.
#6 pithica May 27, 2009 22:19:36	If I do this, then at 10th lvl, my AC will be that of a druid 3. obtain familiar + theurgic bond will pump that up to 10th. (BTW, the one thing the DM does appreciate is a pimped-out AC). Natural Bond gives it some survivability until I'm able to get Theurgic Bond at 9th (after that, it's just gravy). A 10th level AC, at 10, is just an extra tank in the group, which has it's upsides, mind you, but At 11, that Obtain Familiar feat gets you nothing. If you want to focus on the companion, you can certainly do that, and have a pimped out one easily, but you have to drop focus on something else to free up the feats. If you do, you've basically spent a whole bunch of feats to be your dire rat's (well, we all know it's a fleshraker, but dire rat sounds better) spellcasting sidekick/buffer. It's up to you, if you want to drop 3 or 4 of the music or summoner feats, and replace them with AC feats, that'll work, I just know I never liked the experience myself.
#7 jgumbyrx May 27, 2009 22:22:02	Hrmm... I am not sure I have a feel for the character concept you are going for, but I will give this a shot. well, what I was going for was a crash-course in playing a spellcaster while still having plenty of other stuff to fall-back on. Druid was always at the core of all the ideas that I had. The barbarian is going to be putting all of his skills in intimidate, jump, and tumble. The fighter will be doing craft and whatever. The cleric is a new addition, so I don't know yet -- it was the addition of the cleric that messed things up for me, as I was going to take Augment Healing, Imbue Healing, Magic of the land, and put everything else in to my AC. But now that's all changed. Here's the scenario: A group of explorers are setting-out to explore a tropical island for possible resources, and to possibly set-up a colony to establish trade with the locals. It's once they get there that they find an isolated part of the island that the locals don't go anywhere near..... and thus the adventure begins. When I mentioned that I wanted to play a druid, the DM said that I would have to be one of the primative islanders (and I will be the only one from the island). I had thought druid/sorcerer; however, the DM has some crazy (and mandatory) sorcerer variants that I'm not a big fan of, so I ditched that idea. I had thought Fochlucan Lyrist, but that would require me to spend about a year of story time to qualify for the role-play requirement (per DM), which would leave me without my character for a few levels of play (I've got back-up characters; but once I move-on to a new one, I really just want to move-on). So, enter GrWhisp + ArcHrphnt. This does a few things: it gives me both arcane and divine casting; prepared and spontaneous casting; lots of non-casting abilities that I can use and fall-back on -- thus achieving my above-stated goal. I haven't played a caster since '94, and then for just a few levels -- and it hurts my DMing (that's a personal critique -- no complaints from players). I think that if I can get some good caster experience, it would be invaluable for helping me in my general role of "primary" DM. Druid and bard are the only 2 casting classes that the DM doesn't have some house-rule or another that I really just don't like. likely needed in a game where you aren't dealing with traps... just a guess You guess correctly. And yes, that will be left up to me. Oh, BTW -- Green Whisperer does advance bardic music.
#8 jgumbyrx May 27, 2009 22:34:01	A 10th level AC, at 10, is just an extra tank in the group, which has it's upsides, mind you, but At 11, that Obtain Familiar feat gets you nothing. If you want to focus on the companion, you can certainly do that, and have a pimped out one easily, but you have to drop focus on something else to free up the feats. If you do, you've basically spent a whole bunch of feats to be your dire rat's (well, we all know it's a fleshraker, but dire rat sounds better) spellcasting sidekick/buffer. It's up to you, if you want to drop 3 or 4 of the music or summoner feats, and replace them with AC feats, that'll work, I just know I never liked the experience myself. So, basically what you're saying is that pimped summoning will be more effective than a pimped AC. Okay, cool. With my inexperience with casters, I just wasn't sure -- I think I just give too much credit to ACs (I see it as a HUGE feature, that doesn't necessarily get the credit it deserves -- but then again, I tend to over-value melee-ers; but that's a different issue).
#9 pithica May 27, 2009 22:50:20	It is a huge feature. If optimized properly, it's a freaking broken as all hell feature. I wasn't saying pimped out summoning is 'better' than an optimized AC. I was saying it's more fun, at least for me. If you'd rather have the AC, you'd rather have the AC.
#10 jgumbyrx May 27, 2009 23:02:14	It is a huge feature. If optimized properly, it's a freaking broken as all hell feature. I wasn't saying pimped out summoning is 'better' than an optimized AC. I was saying it's more fun, at least for me. If you'd rather have the AC, you'd rather have the AC. I just want to be as useful to the group as possible. Corania seems to favor summoning as well. Like I said -- what ever will be the most useful to the group. Also, he's not letting get the "familiar" abilities for my companion familiar unless I actually have the ability to summon a familiar. Of course, this DM is a little butt-hurt over having to actually role handle animal checks for his AC at some points in the particular dungeon-crawl that I'm currently DMing -- karma may come back to bite me (never mind that he doesn't have any ranks in Handle Animal).
#11 minstrelinthegallery May 28, 2009 9:35:33	Well, I've played a Fochlucan Lyrist (who's now a Arcane Heirophant) for about two years now, so I've kinda got this "bardruid" thing down and I can give pointers. First off, stay the hell away from the fochlucan lyrist- full BaB and bard music doesn't have a thing on companion familiar and wildshape. besides, the lyrist has a europeon espionage vibe that doesn't mesh with a jungle warrior at all. Second, go with natural bond, your familiar will be stuck at level 3 forever, and you don't want it to die. Third, and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this one, since you are neutral good, look up the words of creation feat from the book of exalted deeds, it can double the power of your inspire courage ability. Fourth, and this is more common sense than anything- make sure none of your bard spells are druid spells, no one needs that.
#12 jgumbyrx May 28, 2009 12:55:58	Well, I've played a Fochlucan Lyrist (who's now a Arcane Heirophant) for about two years now, so I've kinda got this "bardruid" thing down and I can give pointers. First off, stay the hell away from the fochlucan lyrist- full BaB and bard music doesn't have a thing on companion familiar and wildshape. besides, the lyrist has a europeon espionage vibe that doesn't mesh with a jungle warrior at all. Second, go with natural bond, your familiar will be stuck at level 3 forever, and you don't want it to die. Third, and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this one, since you are neutral good, look up the words of creation feat from the book of exalted deeds, it can double the power of your inspire courage ability. Fourth, and this is more common sense than anything- make sure none of your bard spells are druid spells, no one needs that. all very good conciderations -- WoCr was thought of, but there are 2 problems: 1) not sure if i'm too keen on the self-damage (non-lethal, or otherwise); 2) the DM is not too big on BoED, as he believes the entire book is broken cheese (of course, some of his ideas on what is broken and what isn't can be a little strange). my delima is that I have entirely too many class features, but only enough resources to fully support 1 or 2 of them. Another thing that I thought of was to take the "shapeshift" variant from PH2; and thus simply do away with the AC all together, while getting a weaker version of wild shape (that will be on hold for 5 levels). How does that sound/work?

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

jgumbyrx

May 27, 2009 17:59:54

alright, long story short:
I'm wanting to play a bard/druid in an upcoming campaign (yea -- I finally get a break from dming). The problem I'm having is this: too many feats, not enough feat slots.

the level build is:
NG Human Bard 2 / Druid 3 / Green Whisperer 5 / Arcane Hierophant 10

we're starting at level 3 -- and is going to be a low-magic game. Also, I'm not sure how long this game will go, so I'm just planning for 20; though, the feeling that I'm getting is that it may not go passed 15.

I would have rather gone Fochlucan Lyrist, but the DM is being a pain in the butt about it.
The race/levels/classes are a done deal, I just wanted some feedback on feat selection. Basically, I know that I'm gonna have to focus in only one area, but I'm torn on which way to go. Here is the pool of possible feats that I have put together to pull from:

possible feats

able learner
spell focus (conj)
augment summoning
greenbond summoning
imbued summoning
natural bond
obtain familiar
theurgic bond
companion spellbound
versitile performer
hymnist
lingering song
focused performer
focused performance
melodic casting
clap of thunder
summon elemental
prac. spellcasting
fast wild shape
swift wild shape
natural spell

jgumbyrx

May 27, 2009 20:51:35

Oh, one more thing...
the rest of the party will consist of a barbarian/FB, a generalist fighter, and a cleric heal-bot.

I had originally thought rogue/druid, but the DM assures us that a "trapfinder" will not be essential.

pithica

May 27, 2009 21:15:43

First off, I have to say 311 is my new favorite issue of Dragon. I've built 2 Battle Howlers for other people and never once noticed Green Whisperer, right next door.

Anyway.

You don't need obtain familiar for the Companion Familiar class feature to work. It specifically caveats the 'lose your familiar' line with, 'if you have one'.

Likewise, Theurgic Bond won't do anything...Well, technically it could effectively let you double your base class level for AC benefits, but I have a feeling the DM you're describing won't let that fly. Especially with as powerful as a base 13/13 companion familiar can be when used properly.

He's probably not going to let companion spellbond count, if he would, though, I would consider the better feat from Dragon Compendium: Enspell Familiar, which extends the range on share spells out to a mile.

I think Fast Wild Shape and Swift Wildshape are useless. By level 15ish, when you'll actually start using wildshape (in combat), you should be able to afford a Mantle of the Beast (Complete Champion 140), which does it for you without a feat (only 18k) or costing you wildshape uses.

Let's see...That leaves...

Show

able learner
spell focus (conj)
augment summoning
greenbond summoning
imbued summoning
natural bond
versitile performer
hymnist
lingering song
focused performer
focused performance
melodic casting
clap of thunder
summon elemental
prac. spellcasting
natural spell

corania

May 27, 2009 21:31:31

Hrmm... I am not sure I have a feel for the character concept you are going for, but I will give this a shot.

Since you wont be getting Wild Shape for some time you don't really have a shot at being a front line fighter, and your party isn't really hurting for those anyway. I think I would focus on summoning critters with my Summons Nature's Ally ability and then buffing them with the bardic abilities (and other druid spells).

I would talk to the players of the cleric and barbarian and ask them about roles they will be playing. If the barbarian has the wilderness skills covered (likely needed in a game where you aren't dealing with traps... just a guess), then you are going to need to make sure you grabbing those. On the other hand you also need to check with the cleric and see if he is covering the face type skills. Try to talk them into covering these to leave you a bit freer, but if you need to cover these then Able Learner is a good choice to make sure you don't slip in your duties... otherwise I would pass on it.

I don't have access to the Green Whisperer prestige class from Dragon #311, but my next advice might be irrelevant if it adds bardic music uses... not sure.

Since you will only have 2 uses of bard out of the gate and at least for a while still, you might consider taking extra music. Not something I normally would recommend for a bard (they would get lots) but if you are just dipping it can give you enough uses to make things worthwhile. Once that is taken care of I would look to do whatever I could to buff up my inspire courage ability. There is a handbook out there for pumping this up and you will want to use whatever tricks you can (the swift spell, mw horn, etc.) to get this up around +3-4 if you can. (note: this will be a huge boon to your party as well)

After that I would focus on feats that enhance your summoning. Augment Summoning and Greenbound Summoning jump out as the ones that will buff your summons up the most. Memorize spells that will allow you most effectively buff your summons and your party (they can all be swapped out anyway) as the cleric should have healing and dealing with conditions covered.

Your roll then should be to buff the party and increase the size of the party to best take advantage of those buffs. Be cognizant of the situations out there and don't forget to set up flanking and when necessary have your animals use aid other actions as well. Using the feat suggestions above you should have some pretty powerful summons, but if you find the party and/or DM is annoyed with you having too many critters on the board you should try and just summon a single bigger creature instead of multiples.

Also be aware that out of the gate you are going to have some trouble directly contributing to combat. You will have only a +1 BAB and aren't geared to get in a melee fight... make sure you have a bow on you. Your summons at this level (bard 2/druid 1) will also kind of blow since you will only have a 1-round duration, but it isn't really worth taking practiced spellcaster just to fix this at low levels unless you can train it out later.

Anyway... just my meandering thoughts.

Sean Mahoney

jgumbyrx

May 27, 2009 21:45:29

WOW! That was a little more comprehensive that I was expecting -- THANKS.

That being said, lets test some of this (in a good way):

You don't need obtain familiar for the Companion Familiar class feature to work. It specifically caveats the 'lose your familiar' line with, 'if you have one'.

Likewise, Theurgic Bond won't do anything...Well, technically it could effectively let you double your base class level for AC benefits, but I have a feeling the DM you're describing won't let that fly. Especially with as powerful as a base 13/13 companion familiar can be when used properly.
...
The difference between effective druid level 13 and 16 is 2 hit dice and +2 to nat (and one bonus trick). You're already getting Improved Evasion from the familiar side of things, so I'd drop Natural Bond as well.

If I do this, then at 10th lvl, my AC will be that of a druid 3. obtain familiar + theurgic bond will pump that up to 10th. (BTW, the one thing the DM does appreciate is a pimped-out AC). Natural Bond gives it some survivability until I'm able to get Theurgic Bond at 9th (after that, it's just gravy).

As far as my music being nerfed, it's not my DM so much as it's the fact that I'll never get the increases. Song of the Heart was definitely on my radar, but I'm not sure how the DM will take it, since he is anti-"anything Eberron" (I'll give it a shot).

Everything else seems spot-on. Thanks.

pithica

May 27, 2009 22:19:36

If I do this, then at 10th lvl, my AC will be that of a druid 3. obtain familiar + theurgic bond will pump that up to 10th. (BTW, the one thing the DM does appreciate is a pimped-out AC). Natural Bond gives it some survivability until I'm able to get Theurgic Bond at 9th (after that, it's just gravy).

A 10th level AC, at 10, is just an extra tank in the group, which has it's upsides, mind you, but At 11, that Obtain Familiar feat gets you nothing.

If you want to focus on the companion, you can certainly do that, and have a pimped out one easily, but you have to drop focus on something else to free up the feats. If you do, you've basically spent a whole bunch of feats to be your dire rat's (well, we all know it's a fleshraker, but dire rat sounds better) spellcasting sidekick/buffer.

It's up to you, if you want to drop 3 or 4 of the music or summoner feats, and replace them with AC feats, that'll work, I just know I never liked the experience myself.

jgumbyrx

May 27, 2009 22:22:02

Hrmm... I am not sure I have a feel for the character concept you are going for, but I will give this a shot.

well, what I was going for was a crash-course in playing a spellcaster while still having plenty of other stuff to fall-back on. Druid was always at the core of all the ideas that I had.

The barbarian is going to be putting all of his skills in intimidate, jump, and tumble. The fighter will be doing craft and whatever. The cleric is a new addition, so I don't know yet -- it was the addition of the cleric that messed things up for me, as I was going to take Augment Healing, Imbue Healing, Magic of the land, and put everything else in to my AC. But now that's all changed.

Here's the scenario:
A group of explorers are setting-out to explore a tropical island for possible resources, and to possibly set-up a colony to establish trade with the locals. It's once they get there that they find an isolated part of the island that the locals don't go anywhere near..... and thus the adventure begins.

When I mentioned that I wanted to play a druid, the DM said that I would have to be one of the primative islanders (and I will be the only one from the island). I had thought druid/sorcerer; however, the DM has some crazy (and mandatory) sorcerer variants that I'm not a big fan of, so I ditched that idea. I had thought Fochlucan Lyrist, but that would require me to spend about a year of story time to qualify for the role-play requirement (per DM), which would leave me without my character for a few levels of play (I've got back-up characters; but once I move-on to a new one, I really just want to move-on). So, enter GrWhisp + ArcHrphnt.
This does a few things: it gives me both arcane and divine casting; prepared and spontaneous casting; lots of non-casting abilities that I can use and fall-back on -- thus achieving my above-stated goal. I haven't played a caster since '94, and then for just a few levels -- and it hurts my DMing (that's a personal critique -- no complaints from players). I think that if I can get some good caster experience, it would be invaluable for helping me in my general role of "primary" DM. Druid and bard are the only 2 casting classes that the DM doesn't have some house-rule or another that I really just don't like.

likely needed in a game where you aren't dealing with traps... just a guess

You guess correctly. And yes, that will be left up to me.

Oh, BTW -- Green Whisperer does advance bardic music.

jgumbyrx

May 27, 2009 22:34:01

A 10th level AC, at 10, is just an extra tank in the group, which has it's upsides, mind you, but At 11, that Obtain Familiar feat gets you nothing.

If you want to focus on the companion, you can certainly do that, and have a pimped out one easily, but you have to drop focus on something else to free up the feats. If you do, you've basically spent a whole bunch of feats to be your dire rat's (well, we all know it's a fleshraker, but dire rat sounds better) spellcasting sidekick/buffer.

It's up to you, if you want to drop 3 or 4 of the music or summoner feats, and replace them with AC feats, that'll work, I just know I never liked the experience myself.

So, basically what you're saying is that pimped summoning will be more effective than a pimped AC. Okay, cool. With my inexperience with casters, I just wasn't sure -- I think I just give too much credit to ACs (I see it as a HUGE feature, that doesn't necessarily get the credit it deserves -- but then again, I tend to over-value melee-ers; but that's a different issue).

pithica

May 27, 2009 22:50:20

It is a huge feature. If optimized properly, it's a freaking broken as all hell feature. I wasn't saying pimped out summoning is 'better' than an optimized AC. I was saying it's more fun, at least for me.

If you'd rather have the AC, you'd rather have the AC.

#10

jgumbyrx

May 27, 2009 23:02:14

It is a huge feature. If optimized properly, it's a freaking broken as all hell feature. I wasn't saying pimped out summoning is 'better' than an optimized AC. I was saying it's more fun, at least for me.

If you'd rather have the AC, you'd rather have the AC.

I just want to be as useful to the group as possible. Corania seems to favor summoning as well. Like I said -- what ever will be the most useful to the group.
Also, he's not letting get the "familiar" abilities for my companion familiar unless I actually have the ability to summon a familiar.

Of course, this DM is a little butt-hurt over having to actually role handle animal checks for his AC at some points in the particular dungeon-crawl that I'm currently DMing -- karma may come back to bite me (never mind that he doesn't have any ranks in Handle Animal).

#11

minstrelinthegallery

May 28, 2009 9:35:33

Well, I've played a Fochlucan Lyrist (who's now a Arcane Heirophant) for about two years now, so I've kinda got this "bardruid" thing down and I can give pointers.

First off, stay the hell away from the fochlucan lyrist- full BaB and bard music doesn't have a thing on companion familiar and wildshape. besides, the lyrist has a europeon espionage vibe that doesn't mesh with a jungle warrior at all.

Second, go with natural bond, your familiar will be stuck at level 3 forever, and you don't want it to die.

Third, and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this one, since you are neutral good, look up the words of creation feat from the book of exalted deeds, it can double the power of your inspire courage ability.

Fourth, and this is more common sense than anything- make sure none of your bard spells are druid spells, no one needs that.

#12

jgumbyrx

May 28, 2009 12:55:58

Well, I've played a Fochlucan Lyrist (who's now a Arcane Heirophant) for about two years now, so I've kinda got this "bardruid" thing down and I can give pointers.

First off, stay the hell away from the fochlucan lyrist- full BaB and bard music doesn't have a thing on companion familiar and wildshape. besides, the lyrist has a europeon espionage vibe that doesn't mesh with a jungle warrior at all.

Second, go with natural bond, your familiar will be stuck at level 3 forever, and you don't want it to die.

Third, and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this one, since you are neutral good, look up the words of creation feat from the book of exalted deeds, it can double the power of your inspire courage ability.

Fourth, and this is more common sense than anything- make sure none of your bard spells are druid spells, no one needs that.

all very good conciderations --
WoCr was thought of, but there are 2 problems: 1) not sure if i'm too keen on the self-damage (non-lethal, or otherwise); 2) the DM is not too big on BoED, as he believes the entire book is broken cheese (of course, some of his ideas on what is broken and what isn't can be a little strange).

my delima is that I have entirely too many class features, but only enough resources to fully support 1 or 2 of them.

Another thing that I thought of was to take the "shapeshift" variant from PH2; and thus simply do away with the AC all together, while getting a weaker version of wild shape (that will be on hold for 5 levels). How does that sound/work?