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Bardic Music?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
calisto
Nov 19, 2008 17:26:42 Ok, so I don't know if this has already been discused but, here it goes anyways. So, my friends were thinking of having an all bard group. We were going to each play a charachter from Dethklok. And I was looking at all the bardic music and it says that when one individual sings, say for the song of courage, you get a bonus. But say everyone was singing, would those bonuses stack. I mean I am reading but I can't seem to see anything that goes against it. But logic would have me say no were I a DM. I mean hell if we all sang at first level then that would be a +5 to attack and damage. Even with a d6 hd just give them a good con and good ac and they can do pretty well. Although the whole getting hit thing is really not a good idea...but still. What are your thoughts.
#2
phaedrusxy
Nov 19, 2008 17:31:05 No, they won't all stack. But you can pick up various feats and what not that change what Inspire Courage actually does. So one guy can give you all a +10 (or whatever) to hit and damage, one guy gives you all +10d6 Fire damage, another +10d6 Sonic, etc.

Go into the Handy Links stickied thread at the top of the page and Control-F search for "Inspire Courage" to see how to boost the bonuses from that.
#3
demon_paladin
Nov 19, 2008 17:51:14 An all-Bard group? Interesting. Well, if you want to be Dethklok, you'll need to take Leadership so you can have a Battle ~~Butler~~ Manager and a bunch of minions.
#4
esyt
Nov 19, 2008 23:57:46 epic idea
#5
empirate
Nov 20, 2008 4:57:23 Bonuses of the same type don't stack. Inspire Courage provides morale bonuses, so only the best bonus applies. Morale bonuses are among the most common bonus types.
There are ways to change what Inspire Courage does, though: Dragonfire Inspiration comes to mind. Also, look into the different Masterwork instruments in Complete Adventurer: If you fit out your group with several different instruments and play at the same time, you can potentially rack up quite diverse bonuses.
Another thing to keep in mind are various music feats, which let you spend a music use to do something else instead. Maybe you shouldn't all focus on optimizing Inspire Courage (two or three people doing that will easily be enough), and get somebody to learn Ironskin Chant instead, or Epic of the Lost King. Maybe even forgo Bard in favor of Warchanter for a different set of Bardic music applications. Virtuoso and Spellsinger are two more PrCs that provide different Bardic musics.
#6
eldariel
Nov 20, 2008 5:00:45 Also, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroics and all Virtuoso-performances offer benefits different from those of Inspire Courage.
#7
hsien
Nov 20, 2008 7:00:32 Also look at the alt class feature abilities seen in Co.Arcane/Mage(?) and CoChampion.
I can't recall specifcs offhand but I recall there is one that gives a chance to create spell failure and CoChamp has some healing abilities.

Thers also the bard varients from Unearthed Arcana.
#8
eldariel
Nov 20, 2008 8:07:27 The C. Champion Healing Hymn is fairly weak. That said, for one character going Virtuoso, I'd still pick it up as Virtuoso gives you Fascinate anyways (you need Fascinate for Suggestion, so you don't want to lose it).
#9
phoenix00
Nov 20, 2008 16:33:43 What level are you going to play? If you are at level 13 or above I would suggest every party member to go sublime chord and pick up the incredible spell telekinesis. Using the violent thrust you can throw daggers at your enemy. (Combine with a belt of battle so you get to do bardic music and throw your daggers in the same round.)

Assuming 6 bards at level 13 (sorc 1/bard 8/virutso 1/sublime chord 1/virutso 9). With masterwork instruments, with insipre courage +3 (11 levels of bard and vest of legends), words of creation, song of the heart, belts of battle and dragonfire inspiration

To Hit
3 (levels + vest of legends)*2 (words of creation)+1 (master work instrument)+1 song of the heart= total of +8 to hit
To Damage
3 (levels + vest of legends)*2 (words of creation)-1 (master work instrument)+1 song of the heart= total of +6 to hit

Now you can throw 13 daggers at level 13.
To Hit
+9 from bab + 8 from inspire courage + Cha + 3 from greater magic weapon.= 20+ Cha

Damage done by 1 dagger
1d4+ 3 Greater Magic Weapon + 6 Insipire Courage + 5*8d6 (Dragonfire Inspiration)= average total damage of 1 dagger is 151.5

You are throwing 13 daggers at level 13, thus 1969.5 average damage

-----

Now its reasonable for all 6 bards to do the same thing (use belt of battle, sing, and then throw the daggers in 1 round)

11817 total damage by the party in 1 round

----

Now this is ignoring damage reduction, daggers not hitting, and energy resistance, regardless you will overcome it all due to the fact you are doing 78 attacks per round.
#10
eldariel
Nov 20, 2008 17:06:13 For added amusement, you could specialize each build.
-Nathan could be a Battle Dancer (Bard into possibly Dervish dipping 2-3 levels of Arcane Duelist (Cha to AC! Oh, and the attack bonus is pretty handy too with Dragonfire Inspiration - might not work with two weapons though) with Snowflake Wardance) as he's the frontman.
-Skwisgaar could be a straight Bard (or Bard/Seeker of the Song, but since Seeker kinda sucks, straight Bard seems better) focused on Bardic Music (he's the melodic player, after all) - just optimize the hell out of every song you gain access to and reap the benefits.
-Toki could be the Sublime Chord/Virtuoso - the arcane support (I think making every rhythmic instrument a support character makes all kinds of sense) with immaculate magic.
-Pickles could be the Sublime Chord/Combat Medic/War Weaver - the defensive support character (and mass buffer - drums make perfect sense for this).

That leaves William, who'd probably have to handle the Roguish skills since nobody else steps up to the plate, and overall be the 5th man everywhere (well, duh! He's the bassist...). One level in Factotum and Able Learner into straight Bard would buy you a nice, fat skill list to fool around with (although that's naturally not the only option - Monk/Sorcerer into Ascetic Mage for Cha to AC could also be amusing).

Alternatively, you could switch out Nathan into the skillmonkey role and make William the main melee combatant - just, the frontman seems like the most natural "main warrior". And yea, make liberal use of Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic) and Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) to stack different types of damage into your attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 calisto Nov 19, 2008 17:26:42	Ok, so I don't know if this has already been discused but, here it goes anyways. So, my friends were thinking of having an all bard group. We were going to each play a charachter from Dethklok. And I was looking at all the bardic music and it says that when one individual sings, say for the song of courage, you get a bonus. But say everyone was singing, would those bonuses stack. I mean I am reading but I can't seem to see anything that goes against it. But logic would have me say no were I a DM. I mean hell if we all sang at first level then that would be a +5 to attack and damage. Even with a d6 hd just give them a good con and good ac and they can do pretty well. Although the whole getting hit thing is really not a good idea...but still. What are your thoughts.
#2 phaedrusxy Nov 19, 2008 17:31:05	No, they won't all stack. But you can pick up various feats and what not that change what Inspire Courage actually does. So one guy can give you all a +10 (or whatever) to hit and damage, one guy gives you all +10d6 Fire damage, another +10d6 Sonic, etc. Go into the Handy Links stickied thread at the top of the page and Control-F search for "Inspire Courage" to see how to boost the bonuses from that.
#3 demon_paladin Nov 19, 2008 17:51:14	An all-Bard group? Interesting. Well, if you want to be Dethklok, you'll need to take Leadership so you can have a Battle ~~Butler~~ Manager and a bunch of minions.
#4 esyt Nov 19, 2008 23:57:46	epic idea
#5 empirate Nov 20, 2008 4:57:23	Bonuses of the same type don't stack. Inspire Courage provides morale bonuses, so only the best bonus applies. Morale bonuses are among the most common bonus types. There are ways to change what Inspire Courage does, though: Dragonfire Inspiration comes to mind. Also, look into the different Masterwork instruments in Complete Adventurer: If you fit out your group with several different instruments and play at the same time, you can potentially rack up quite diverse bonuses. Another thing to keep in mind are various music feats, which let you spend a music use to do something else instead. Maybe you shouldn't all focus on optimizing Inspire Courage (two or three people doing that will easily be enough), and get somebody to learn Ironskin Chant instead, or Epic of the Lost King. Maybe even forgo Bard in favor of Warchanter for a different set of Bardic music applications. Virtuoso and Spellsinger are two more PrCs that provide different Bardic musics.
#6 eldariel Nov 20, 2008 5:00:45	Also, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroics and all Virtuoso-performances offer benefits different from those of Inspire Courage.
#7 hsien Nov 20, 2008 7:00:32	Also look at the alt class feature abilities seen in Co.Arcane/Mage(?) and CoChampion. I can't recall specifcs offhand but I recall there is one that gives a chance to create spell failure and CoChamp has some healing abilities. Thers also the bard varients from Unearthed Arcana.
#8 eldariel Nov 20, 2008 8:07:27	The C. Champion Healing Hymn is fairly weak. That said, for one character going Virtuoso, I'd still pick it up as Virtuoso gives you Fascinate anyways (you need Fascinate for Suggestion, so you don't want to lose it).
#9 phoenix00 Nov 20, 2008 16:33:43	What level are you going to play? If you are at level 13 or above I would suggest every party member to go sublime chord and pick up the incredible spell telekinesis. Using the violent thrust you can throw daggers at your enemy. (Combine with a belt of battle so you get to do bardic music and throw your daggers in the same round.) Assuming 6 bards at level 13 (sorc 1/bard 8/virutso 1/sublime chord 1/virutso 9). With masterwork instruments, with insipre courage +3 (11 levels of bard and vest of legends), words of creation, song of the heart, belts of battle and dragonfire inspiration To Hit 3 (levels + vest of legends)2 (words of creation)+1 (master work instrument)+1 song of the heart= total of +8 to hit To Damage 3 (levels + vest of legends)2 (words of creation)-1 (master work instrument)+1 song of the heart= total of +6 to hit Now you can throw 13 daggers at level 13. To Hit +9 from bab + 8 from inspire courage + Cha + 3 from greater magic weapon.= 20+ Cha Damage done by 1 dagger 1d4+ 3 Greater Magic Weapon + 6 Insipire Courage + 5*8d6 (Dragonfire Inspiration)= average total damage of 1 dagger is 151.5 You are throwing 13 daggers at level 13, thus 1969.5 average damage ----- Now its reasonable for all 6 bards to do the same thing (use belt of battle, sing, and then throw the daggers in 1 round) 11817 total damage by the party in 1 round ---- Now this is ignoring damage reduction, daggers not hitting, and energy resistance, regardless you will overcome it all due to the fact you are doing 78 attacks per round.
#10 eldariel Nov 20, 2008 17:06:13	For added amusement, you could specialize each build. -Nathan could be a Battle Dancer (Bard into possibly Dervish dipping 2-3 levels of Arcane Duelist (Cha to AC! Oh, and the attack bonus is pretty handy too with Dragonfire Inspiration - might not work with two weapons though) with Snowflake Wardance) as he's the frontman. -Skwisgaar could be a straight Bard (or Bard/Seeker of the Song, but since Seeker kinda sucks, straight Bard seems better) focused on Bardic Music (he's the melodic player, after all) - just optimize the hell out of every song you gain access to and reap the benefits. -Toki could be the Sublime Chord/Virtuoso - the arcane support (I think making every rhythmic instrument a support character makes all kinds of sense) with immaculate magic. -Pickles could be the Sublime Chord/Combat Medic/War Weaver - the defensive support character (and mass buffer - drums make perfect sense for this). That leaves William, who'd probably have to handle the Roguish skills since nobody else steps up to the plate, and overall be the 5th man everywhere (well, duh! He's the bassist...). One level in Factotum and Able Learner into straight Bard would buy you a nice, fat skill list to fool around with (although that's naturally not the only option - Monk/Sorcerer into Ascetic Mage for Cha to AC could also be amusing). Alternatively, you could switch out Nathan into the skillmonkey role and make William the main melee combatant - just, the frontman seems like the most natural "main warrior". And yea, make liberal use of Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic) and Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) to stack different types of damage into your attacks.