Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kroann Sep 15, 2013 13:49:30	Hey everyone, I have a question regarding my character and his familiars At level one I would like to take a druid level with the ACF "Urban Companion" which bascially gives me a familiar similar to that of a sorcerer that shares my BAB and 3/4 of my HP. at level 2 I would like to start progressing as a Battle Sorcerer. I would gain a 2nd familiar (slightly weaker then my urban companion) and continue on to level 3 where hopefully my plan will come to life. At level 3 I would take the feat improved familiar, then at level 4 (3 levels as an arcane spellcaster) I would exchange both my familiars in for two worgs (via Improved familiar). Now can I keep leveling up as a battle sorcerer while progressing both my familiars along with me?
#2 Maat_Mons Sep 15, 2013 14:52:54	I'm pretty sure I remember there being something about not being able to summon two familiars even if you have two classes that would give you a familiar.  I can't seem to find it though.   Arguing that urban companion bypasses this restriction essentially requires arguing that it's different from a familiar.  Arguing that improved familiar works with urban companion essentially requires arguing that it's the same as a familiar.  I don't know which (if either) of those is true, but it doesn't seem like they could both be true at the same time.   If you're allowed to use dragon magazine material, the extra familiar feat (Dragon 280, p62) is an easier way to get what you're looking for.  It can even be taken multiple times.  Also, not that dog is given as an option for a regular (non-improved) familiar in issues 277, 280, and 341 of Dragon magazine.  Issue 277 also gives eagle as an option.   A similar option would be to play as a druid with the wild cohort feat.
#3 StevenO Sep 15, 2013 17:22:19	When I read Urban Companion it says the following: Urban Companion The fearsome animal companions who accompany some casters in the wild are indeed a boon in combat, but a hulking wolf or creeping tiger is out of place in an urban environment. Some characters believe that small and subtle is of greater value than massive and mighty. Class: Druid or ranger. Level: 1st (druid) or 4th (ranger). Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain an animal companion. Benefit: The character gains the companionship of a smaller but far more intelligent creature than she otherwise would have. This is identical to the sorcerer's ability to summon a familiar (PH 52), including all benefits granted and gained by the familiar, except as noted below. Her functional level for determining the abilities of the companion is equal to her druid level or one-half her ranger level. She does not lose experience points if her urban companion is slain, and she requires only 24 hours to replace one who is lost.   Her urban companion has total hit points equal to 3/4 her own hit points, rather than half as per a familiar.   The urban companion gains the ability to speak with other animals of its kind when she has an effective master level of 1st, rather than 7th.   When she reaches an effective master level of 7th, she can speak with animals of her companion's kind, as per speak with animals. This is a supernatural ability that functions constantly, and it requires only a free action to reactivate if somehow dispelled
#4 Slagger_the_Chuul Sep 15, 2013 17:54:05	I came to basically the same conclusion (while messing around with fleshwarper familiars).  It is either equivalent to a familiar for the purpose of interactions, in which case it stacks levels with other familiar-granting classes, or it's different, in which case most familiar options won't work with it.
#5 Kroann Sep 15, 2013 18:18:50	I'll have to look at the dragon magazine feat that grants an extra familiar I suppose if i'm going to indeed want a 2nd one. Aside from the Battle Sorcerer and Duskblade, are there any other classes you guys could suggest that may work well with this idea?
#6 StevenO Sep 15, 2013 20:22:09	Which "idea" are you asking about?  How to get some kind of double advancement or advance more than one pet with a single ability? I believe the Arcane Heriophant (RoW) which combines arcane spellcasting with the Druid will only get one pet but it gets a combination of familiar and animal companion bonuses.
#7 Kroann Sep 16, 2013 1:53:38	StevenO wrote:
(Reply to #7) Kroann	If I deciede to go straight druid, with Urban Companion, would I still be able to the the feat Improved Familiar? Urban Companion Benefit: The character gains the companionship of a smaller but far more intelligent creature than she otherwise would have. This is identical to the sorcerer's ability to summon a familiar (PH 52), including all benefits granted and gained by the familiar, except as noted below. Her functional level for determining the abilities of the companion is equal to her druid level or one-half her ranger level.   Improved Familiar Prerequisite Ability to acquire a new familiar, and base attack bonus, compatible alignment, sufficiently high arcane spellcaster level,
#9 StevenO Sep 16, 2013 17:29:31	I'll just point out that a familiar uses its Master's BAB regardless what class actually grants the familiar.  Getting one with a 3/4 BAB class does boost the familiar's BAB but you could also do the same thing with just about any gish build.
#10 Kroann Sep 16, 2013 17:40:31	i'm not quite following what your trying to say? Do you mean i'd be better off taking a class with full BAB?
#11 Maat_Mons Sep 16, 2013 17:48:36	Let me start by saying that the requirements for improved familiar are very poorly written.  Taking the improved familiar feat adds all of the improved familiars as options for you when you take it.  You don't choose an improved familiar when you take the feat.  You choose your familiar at the time you summon it, and if you summon another one later, it doesn't need to be the same type of creature.  So the requirements "compatible alignment" and "sufficiently high arcane spellcaster level" don't make any sense.  Compatible with what?  Sufficiently high for what?   Anyway, whether or not a druid with urban companion qualifies for the improved familiar feat  is up the the DM, because whether or not any character qualifies for it is up to the DM.  Whoever wrote the feat just messed it up that badly.   Putting aside the issues involved in taking the feat, even if you have it, you still need to meet the requirements for whichever improved familiar you want to take.  As far as I know, every improved familiar has a minimum arcane spellcaster level requirement.  The druid gets an effective level for determining the familiar's abilities, but that's different from meeting a prerequisite.  So, unless you meet the prerequisite some other way, it doesn't look like it works as written.  However, you can still ask the DM to houserule it.
#12 StevenO Sep 16, 2013 20:56:47	Kroann wrote:
#13 Kroann Sep 17, 2013 1:35:36	I'm trying to figure out which would be a better choice for combat. Would it be a regular Druid Animal companion, or the Druid Urban Companion ACF buffed up with Improved Familiar. Basically i'm looking to compare say a 10th level Riding Dog animal companion vs a 10th level Worg Improved Familiar.