Battle Sorcerer with animal companion - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Battle Sorcerer with animal companion

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
toryn
Jun 24, 2012 13:32:07 Does anyone know the answer to this:

If a Battle Sorcerer trades his familiar for an animal companion at level 1 (UA or srd variant, treat as druid 1/2 level), would the companion (wolf) be equivalent to a 1st level druid's? I ask because some modifiers are minimum level 1 when it comes to certain things, and the srd or UA does not really specify.
#2
Tempest_Stormwind
Jun 24, 2012 13:44:06
Does anyone know the answer to this:

If a Battle Sorcerer trades his familiar for an animal companion at level 1 (UA or srd variant, treat as druid 1/2 level), would the companion (wolf) be equivalent to a 1st level druid's? I ask because some modifiers are minimum level 1 when it comes to certain things, and the srd or UA does not really specify.

You usually round down on this sort of thing, but then again usually the abilities only show up at level 2 or similar so they wouldn't be giving a zero bonus. UA won't specify because most of its rules were incompletely developed (and understandably so).

You can do it easier with Wild Cohort though.
#3
toryn
Jun 24, 2012 14:00:50 Thanks Tempest. I would probably have to wait for wild cohort though. My 1st level feats are Precocious Apprentice: Alter Self and Eschew Materials.
#4
Tempest_Stormwind
Jun 24, 2012 14:07:38
Thanks Tempest. I would probably have to wait for wild cohort though. My 1st level feats are Precocious Apprentice: Alter Self and Eschew Materials.

You can fit it in at first if you drop Eschew; that feat isn't worth it unless it's a prerequisite for something (and none of those somethings usually appeal to battle sorcerer). You can easily take your hand off a two-handed grip as a free-action and put it back when you're done casting.
#5
Slagger_the_Chuul
Jun 24, 2012 15:21:55
You can fit it in at first if you drop Eschew; that feat isn't worth it unless it's a prerequisite for something (and none of those somethings usually appeal to battle sorcerer).

Well, it can also be useful if you're into shapechanging magic (which is a reasonable fit with the improved HD features of the battle sorcerer), but it's still not much of an issue at low levels.
#6
The_Fred
Jun 25, 2012 17:11:47 Note that a Battle Sorcerer gets a pretty good (better than average) familiar due to the higher BAB and HP (though by this logic, Wiz 1/Barb X gets an awesome familiar). I presume you could channel, say, Chill Touch through your familiar then attack normally whilst your familiar touches for double damage output.

I would assume, though, that if you did trade your familiar for an animal companion, you would be treated as a L1 Druid at L1.
#7
toryn
Jun 25, 2012 21:24:40
Note that a Battle Sorcerer gets a pretty good (better than average) familiar due to the higher BAB and HP (though by this logic, Wiz 1/Barb X gets an awesome familiar). I presume you could channel, say, Chill Touch through your familiar then attack normally whilst your familiar touches for double damage output.

I would assume, though, that if you did trade your familiar for an animal companion, you would be treated as a L1 Druid at L1.

Thanks for all of the help.
#8
Tempest_Stormwind
Jun 25, 2012 21:44:45
Note that a Battle Sorcerer gets a pretty good (better than average) familiar due to the higher BAB and HP (though by this logic, Wiz 1/Barb X gets an awesome familiar). I presume you could channel, say, Chill Touch through your familiar then attack normally whilst your familiar touches for double damage output.

I would assume, though, that if you did trade your familiar for an animal companion, you would be treated as a L1 Druid at L1.

Three minor points.

1) A wiz 1 / barb X won't have Channel Touch Spells.
2) None of the basic familiars are good for combat - amongst other things, they all lack reach, so entering an opponent's square to attack (and thus provoking AoOs) is a given, even with a touch spell. You'd need an Improved Familiar for that, and at that point you're the same number of feats down as if you'd taken Wild Cohort.
3) The best classes for familiar use are the hexblade and the duskblade (big HD, full base attack on top of full level progression for special abilities), although the latter (and frequently the former, due to the Dark Companion ACF being so awesome) tends to require Obtain Familiar as well as Improved Familiar. They tend to pay in other areas magically, notably with poor spell selection.

With those in mind, your basic premise is still sound.
#9
Maat_Mons
Jun 25, 2012 22:59:57
If you can get it allowed, Dragon 280 gives dog as a basic familiar option on page 60. I've been toying with the idea of combining that with urban companion and the extra familiar feat from the same Dragon article.
#10
The_Fred
Jun 28, 2012 10:09:56
1) A wiz 1 / barb X won't have Channel Touch Spells.

Oh of course - when I said "by that logic", I meant the slightly flawed logic that higher BAB and more HP are better (obviously they are, but they aren't the sole factor).

2) None of the basic familiars are good for combat

True, though a flying familiar (hawk) can be handy and I like the look of the bat (Blindsense and good flight). Having to move into an opponent's square sucks, but you can carry your familiar close then have it 5ft-step in.

3) The best classes for familiar use are the hexblade and the duskblade

Very true, though Battle Sorcerer is still a good cut above Wiz and Sorc, and still gets full (albeit curtailed) spellcasting whereas the Hexblade is more like an arcane Paladin. The primary difference is probably that the Sorcerer retains the good Sorcerer spell list. In terms of delivering spells through a familiar, I'd say Battle Sorcerer is pretty cool. If you were building a character around having a combat familiar, Hexblade and Duskblade are definately worth thinking about, though.

The existance of the Obtain Familiar feat does mean that you can use the Animal Companion ACF from UA AND still get a familiar for the best of both worlds. Just be aware that as a Sorcerer you are a bit feat-starved.
#11
toryn
Jul 04, 2012 15:00:43 Thanks again for all of the help.
#12
StevenO
Jul 04, 2012 18:12:28 It may be off-topic but when it comes to familiars I like them with my skill full spellcasters. It may depend on how the DM want to rule the use of certain skills but having a Rogue/Wizard's familiar around is a lot like having a second Rogue who happens to be smaller which is often beneficial to Rogues.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 toryn Jun 24, 2012 13:32:07	Does anyone know the answer to this: If a Battle Sorcerer trades his familiar for an animal companion at level 1 (UA or srd variant, treat as druid 1/2 level), would the companion (wolf) be equivalent to a 1st level druid's? I ask because some modifiers are minimum level 1 when it comes to certain things, and the srd or UA does not really specify.
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 24, 2012 13:44:06	Does anyone know the answer to this: If a Battle Sorcerer trades his familiar for an animal companion at level 1 (UA or srd variant, treat as druid 1/2 level), would the companion (wolf) be equivalent to a 1st level druid's? I ask because some modifiers are minimum level 1 when it comes to certain things, and the srd or UA does not really specify. You usually round down on this sort of thing, but then again usually the abilities only show up at level 2 or similar so they wouldn't be giving a zero bonus. UA won't specify because most of its rules were incompletely developed (and understandably so). You can do it easier with Wild Cohort though.
#3 toryn Jun 24, 2012 14:00:50	Thanks Tempest. I would probably have to wait for wild cohort though. My 1st level feats are Precocious Apprentice: Alter Self and Eschew Materials.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 24, 2012 14:07:38	Thanks Tempest. I would probably have to wait for wild cohort though. My 1st level feats are Precocious Apprentice: Alter Self and Eschew Materials. You can fit it in at first if you drop Eschew; that feat isn't worth it unless it's a prerequisite for something (and none of those somethings usually appeal to battle sorcerer). You can easily take your hand off a two-handed grip as a free-action and put it back when you're done casting.
#5 Slagger_the_Chuul Jun 24, 2012 15:21:55	You can fit it in at first if you drop Eschew; that feat isn't worth it unless it's a prerequisite for something (and none of those somethings usually appeal to battle sorcerer). Well, it can also be useful if you're into shapechanging magic (which is a reasonable fit with the improved HD features of the battle sorcerer), but it's still not much of an issue at low levels.
#6 The_Fred Jun 25, 2012 17:11:47	Note that a Battle Sorcerer gets a pretty good (better than average) familiar due to the higher BAB and HP (though by this logic, Wiz 1/Barb X gets an awesome familiar). I presume you could channel, say, Chill Touch through your familiar then attack normally whilst your familiar touches for double damage output. I would assume, though, that if you did trade your familiar for an animal companion, you would be treated as a L1 Druid at L1.
#7 toryn Jun 25, 2012 21:24:40	Note that a Battle Sorcerer gets a pretty good (better than average) familiar due to the higher BAB and HP (though by this logic, Wiz 1/Barb X gets an awesome familiar). I presume you could channel, say, Chill Touch through your familiar then attack normally whilst your familiar touches for double damage output. I would assume, though, that if you did trade your familiar for an animal companion, you would be treated as a L1 Druid at L1. Thanks for all of the help.
#8 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 25, 2012 21:44:45	Note that a Battle Sorcerer gets a pretty good (better than average) familiar due to the higher BAB and HP (though by this logic, Wiz 1/Barb X gets an awesome familiar). I presume you could channel, say, Chill Touch through your familiar then attack normally whilst your familiar touches for double damage output. I would assume, though, that if you did trade your familiar for an animal companion, you would be treated as a L1 Druid at L1. Three minor points. 1) A wiz 1 / barb X won't have Channel Touch Spells. 2) None of the basic familiars are good for combat - amongst other things, they all lack reach, so entering an opponent's square to attack (and thus provoking AoOs) is a given, even with a touch spell. You'd need an Improved Familiar for that, and at that point you're the same number of feats down as if you'd taken Wild Cohort. 3) The best classes for familiar use are the hexblade and the duskblade (big HD, full base attack on top of full level progression for special abilities), although the latter (and frequently the former, due to the Dark Companion ACF being so awesome) tends to require Obtain Familiar as well as Improved Familiar. They tend to pay in other areas magically, notably with poor spell selection. With those in mind, your basic premise is still sound.
#9 Maat_Mons Jun 25, 2012 22:59:57	If you can get it allowed, Dragon 280 gives dog as a basic familiar option on page 60. I've been toying with the idea of combining that with urban companion and the extra familiar feat from the same Dragon article.
#10 The_Fred Jun 28, 2012 10:09:56	1) A wiz 1 / barb X won't have Channel Touch Spells. Oh of course - when I said "by that logic", I meant the slightly flawed logic that higher BAB and more HP are better (obviously they are, but they aren't the sole factor). 2) None of the basic familiars are good for combat True, though a flying familiar (hawk) can be handy and I like the look of the bat (Blindsense and good flight). Having to move into an opponent's square sucks, but you can carry your familiar close then have it 5ft-step in. 3) The best classes for familiar use are the hexblade and the duskblade Very true, though Battle Sorcerer is still a good cut above Wiz and Sorc, and still gets full (albeit curtailed) spellcasting whereas the Hexblade is more like an arcane Paladin. The primary difference is probably that the Sorcerer retains the good Sorcerer spell list. In terms of delivering spells through a familiar, I'd say Battle Sorcerer is pretty cool. If you were building a character around having a combat familiar, Hexblade and Duskblade are definately worth thinking about, though. The existance of the Obtain Familiar feat does mean that you can use the Animal Companion ACF from UA AND still get a familiar for the best of both worlds. Just be aware that as a Sorcerer you are a bit feat-starved.
#11 toryn Jul 04, 2012 15:00:43	Thanks again for all of the help.
#12 StevenO Jul 04, 2012 18:12:28	It may be off-topic but when it comes to familiars I like them with my skill full spellcasters. It may depend on how the DM want to rule the use of certain skills but having a Rogue/Wizard's familiar around is a lot like having a second Rogue who happens to be smaller which is often beneficial to Rogues.