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Bear with me, here

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
argyris
Apr 11, 2008 11:20:09 I am an RP nut, so maybe you will just all laugh at this, but I wanted your opinion.

I am currently playing an ECL3 LE tiefling rogue. I am thinking of going tiefling1/rogue4/cleric1/monk2/Sacred Fist 10. (I realize that only adds up to 18, but hey, I started levelling this guy at 1. Who knows, by then, we will probably switch to 4.0 anyway and I will have to rebuild.)

First of all, this would fit in very well with my character's story. I am a tiefling rogue who discovers my roots with my demonic father and finds enlightenment with Hextor/Wee Jas. I really could care less about rebuke undead (esp. with a charisma of 6), would like to take advantage of my "natural weapons" and so on and so forth.

I also think I am using some of the better breakoff points. I am thinking Evasionx2 could switch to Spell Reflect, I would get Improved Uncanny Dodge, a vicious trip attack, good range, and 11 levels of cleric spell casting ability...and the resistances/outsider status from being a tiefling have worked out amazingly well for me so far.

Comments, suggestions, derisive snickering?
#2
hyfigh
Apr 11, 2008 11:51:55 For what you're describing, the build seems pretty reasonable.

I'd personally change up the cleric dip to an Ur-Priest dip for faster spell progression. Also, loose the level of monk. Monk is stinky-poo-poo. Maybe unarmed Swordsage variant instead? I would take something that could advance rogue + Ur-casting instead though.

For a bit of snickering, you really should include what books you have available as well.
#3
vicen_korel
Apr 11, 2008 12:54:44 If you are going evil could you fit some Black Flame Zealot in there, or would that be a "no go" or "no good" ?
#4
argyris
Apr 11, 2008 20:53:26 Thanks for the suggestions. Ur-priest has too many requirements. Black Zealot doesn't seem to have the flavor I am looking for. I will have to consider Swordsage, I don't have the book.

My DM is very into variants and stuff, hence I am playing a tiefling. So, anything I get my hands on, is fine.

But, I wouldn't want to go too deep into too many other classes. I was considering 6 levels in monk, but even that is too much. Taking 2 levels of monk easily qualifies me for Sacred Fist, which I am liking.
#5
gavinfoxx
Apr 11, 2008 21:51:50 Variants? Yea, unarmed swordsage, and maybe change his stats to "lesser tiefling", even if you still continue to CALL it a tiefling..
#6
argyris
Apr 13, 2008 2:35:50 By variants, I mean adding things to the game that are not in the core rule books.

I have been looking into it more at length and made a 20 level build. I would appreciate suggestions about the order to take the classes as well.

Tiefling 1
Rogue 1
Rogue 2

This far, I have already advanced. The rest is what I am planning.

Cleric 1
Monk 1
Tattooed Monk 1 (white mask)
Monk 2
Rogue 3
Rogue 4
Son of Mercy 1
Sacred Blade 1
Sacred Blade 2
Sacred Blade 3
Sacred Blade 4
Sacred Blade 5
Sacred Blade 6
Sacred Blade 7
Sacred Blade 8
Sacred Blade 9
Sacred Blade 10

I'm specifically unsure about how many levels of rogue to take, whether Son of Mercy is worth the bother.
#7
Dictum_Mortuum
Apr 13, 2008 2:40:22 Red knight Vindicator.
A Wee Jas specific prestige.
#8
lordmaul
Apr 13, 2008 17:43:22 For a few levels early in game (particularly going for Sacred Fist), Monk 2 is far better (well, maybe not -far- better...) than Swordsage 2.
Next-Avoid Tattooed Monk- some of the abilities are nice, but just not worth it for your build.

...I... do not recognize Sacred Blade or Son of Mercy.

It represents some interesting RP challenges, but Apostle of Peace also would boost your casting (you have to be good, is the problem)

Unarmed Swordsage is an amazing choice if you are considering SSN (though, considering lack of ToB, I would assume you aren't), however, for most of the Monk PrCs, you specifically need Monk levels to get the most out of them.
#9
ChristopherGroves
Apr 13, 2008 18:11:38 I'd almost suggest ...

Cleric 1 (for turn undead, you need it for PrC qualification), Crusader 1, RVK 10 and possibly one level in Prestige Paladin (going either Paladin of Tyranny or Paladin of Slaughter).

That isn't an almost-suggestion really. That's what I'd do straight up.

Total needs to qualify ... one feat (Mounted Combat). The level of Crusader and Cleric give you what you need for RKV. From there it's gravy.

4 Cleric 1
5 Crusader 1 (Tome of Battle)
6 Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 (Tome of Battle) - Take Mounted Combat Feat
7 Prestige Paladin 1 (Unearted Arcana / also D20 SRD)
8 Ruby Knight Vindicator 2
9 Ruby Knight Vindicator 3 - Take Battle Blessing feat

And now you're a shadow-using, diety-driven beast. The Shadow Hand maneuvers could be very solid for you ... go invisible for a round ... a stance that increases your sneak dice ... etc. Good stuff all around.

(this is my favorite kind of character build, FWIW)
#10
andyjames
Apr 13, 2008 18:30:58
I am an RP nut, so maybe you will just all laugh at this, but I wanted your opinion.

I am currently playing an ECL3 LE tiefling rogue. I am thinking of going tiefling1/rogue4/cleric1/monk2/Sacred Fist 10. (I realize that only adds up to 18, but hey, I started levelling this guy at 1. Who knows, by then, we will probably switch to 4.0 anyway and I will have to rebuild.)

First of all, this would fit in very well with my character's story. I am a tiefling rogue who discovers my roots with my demonic father and finds enlightenment with Hextor/Wee Jas. I really could care less about rebuke undead (esp. with a charisma of 6), would like to take advantage of my "natural weapons" and so on and so forth.

I also think I am using some of the better breakoff points. I am thinking Evasionx2 could switch to Spell Reflect, I would get Improved Uncanny Dodge, a vicious trip attack, good range, and 11 levels of cleric spell casting ability...and the resistances/outsider status from being a tiefling have worked out amazingly well for me so far.

Comments, suggestions, derisive snickering?

Well, as some suggested:

- Take lesser Tiefling (Player's Guide to Faerun). It will give you all the stuff of the Tiefling without the LA and without the Outsider type (you are Humanoid: Planetouched).

- For unarmed combat, take the Swordsage variant. Be a Cleric and then into Ruby Knight Vindicator. You get dual progression in Cleric and Swordsage manoeuvres. I don't know the exact minimum levels you'd need for those as I am AFB.

- Your unarmed damage would not be the best in the world, unfortunately, but you can strike like crazy every encounter (since the Swordsage's manoeuvres recover at the end of every encounter, more or less...).
#11
lordmaul
Apr 13, 2008 18:56:46 oh, and you may consider Ascetic Rogue
#12
argyris
Apr 13, 2008 20:19:09 Ack...I keep on saying Sacred Blade when I mean Sacred Fist from Complete Divine.

The reason for the level in tattooed monk is that White Mask just gives you way too nice of an advantage when you are an evil character. Immune to Detect Thought, Detect Lies, and attempts to read alignment. +10 bonus on bluff checks. Add improve feint, max ranks in bluff, +2 tiefling ability...that is a lot of sneak attack damage.

Son of Mercy is from Dragon magazine, and frankly, I gave up on it.

I am going to look into the classes offered in Tome of Battle when I get my hands on it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 argyris Apr 11, 2008 11:20:09	I am an RP nut, so maybe you will just all laugh at this, but I wanted your opinion. I am currently playing an ECL3 LE tiefling rogue. I am thinking of going tiefling1/rogue4/cleric1/monk2/Sacred Fist 10. (I realize that only adds up to 18, but hey, I started levelling this guy at 1. Who knows, by then, we will probably switch to 4.0 anyway and I will have to rebuild.) First of all, this would fit in very well with my character's story. I am a tiefling rogue who discovers my roots with my demonic father and finds enlightenment with Hextor/Wee Jas. I really could care less about rebuke undead (esp. with a charisma of 6), would like to take advantage of my "natural weapons" and so on and so forth. I also think I am using some of the better breakoff points. I am thinking Evasionx2 could switch to Spell Reflect, I would get Improved Uncanny Dodge, a vicious trip attack, good range, and 11 levels of cleric spell casting ability...and the resistances/outsider status from being a tiefling have worked out amazingly well for me so far. Comments, suggestions, derisive snickering?
#2 hyfigh Apr 11, 2008 11:51:55	For what you're describing, the build seems pretty reasonable. I'd personally change up the cleric dip to an Ur-Priest dip for faster spell progression. Also, loose the level of monk. Monk is stinky-poo-poo. Maybe unarmed Swordsage variant instead? I would take something that could advance rogue + Ur-casting instead though. For a bit of snickering, you really should include what books you have available as well.
#3 vicen_korel Apr 11, 2008 12:54:44	If you are going evil could you fit some Black Flame Zealot in there, or would that be a "no go" or "no good" ?
#4 argyris Apr 11, 2008 20:53:26	Thanks for the suggestions. Ur-priest has too many requirements. Black Zealot doesn't seem to have the flavor I am looking for. I will have to consider Swordsage, I don't have the book. My DM is very into variants and stuff, hence I am playing a tiefling. So, anything I get my hands on, is fine. But, I wouldn't want to go too deep into too many other classes. I was considering 6 levels in monk, but even that is too much. Taking 2 levels of monk easily qualifies me for Sacred Fist, which I am liking.
#5 gavinfoxx Apr 11, 2008 21:51:50	Variants? Yea, unarmed swordsage, and maybe change his stats to "lesser tiefling", even if you still continue to CALL it a tiefling..
#6 argyris Apr 13, 2008 2:35:50	By variants, I mean adding things to the game that are not in the core rule books. I have been looking into it more at length and made a 20 level build. I would appreciate suggestions about the order to take the classes as well. Tiefling 1 Rogue 1 Rogue 2 This far, I have already advanced. The rest is what I am planning. Cleric 1 Monk 1 Tattooed Monk 1 (white mask) Monk 2 Rogue 3 Rogue 4 Son of Mercy 1 Sacred Blade 1 Sacred Blade 2 Sacred Blade 3 Sacred Blade 4 Sacred Blade 5 Sacred Blade 6 Sacred Blade 7 Sacred Blade 8 Sacred Blade 9 Sacred Blade 10 I'm specifically unsure about how many levels of rogue to take, whether Son of Mercy is worth the bother.
#7 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 13, 2008 2:40:22	Red knight Vindicator. A Wee Jas specific prestige.
#8 lordmaul Apr 13, 2008 17:43:22	For a few levels early in game (particularly going for Sacred Fist), Monk 2 is far better (well, maybe not -far- better...) than Swordsage 2. Next-Avoid Tattooed Monk- some of the abilities are nice, but just not worth it for your build. ...I... do not recognize Sacred Blade or Son of Mercy. It represents some interesting RP challenges, but Apostle of Peace also would boost your casting (you have to be good, is the problem) Unarmed Swordsage is an amazing choice if you are considering SSN (though, considering lack of ToB, I would assume you aren't), however, for most of the Monk PrCs, you specifically need Monk levels to get the most out of them.
#9 ChristopherGroves Apr 13, 2008 18:11:38	I'd almost suggest ... Cleric 1 (for turn undead, you need it for PrC qualification), Crusader 1, RVK 10 and possibly one level in Prestige Paladin (going either Paladin of Tyranny or Paladin of Slaughter). That isn't an almost-suggestion really. That's what I'd do straight up. Total needs to qualify ... one feat (Mounted Combat). The level of Crusader and Cleric give you what you need for RKV. From there it's gravy. 4 Cleric 1 5 Crusader 1 (Tome of Battle) 6 Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 (Tome of Battle) - Take Mounted Combat Feat 7 Prestige Paladin 1 (Unearted Arcana / also D20 SRD) 8 Ruby Knight Vindicator 2 9 Ruby Knight Vindicator 3 - Take Battle Blessing feat And now you're a shadow-using, diety-driven beast. The Shadow Hand maneuvers could be very solid for you ... go invisible for a round ... a stance that increases your sneak dice ... etc. Good stuff all around. (this is my favorite kind of character build, FWIW)
#10 andyjames Apr 13, 2008 18:30:58	I am an RP nut, so maybe you will just all laugh at this, but I wanted your opinion. I am currently playing an ECL3 LE tiefling rogue. I am thinking of going tiefling1/rogue4/cleric1/monk2/Sacred Fist 10. (I realize that only adds up to 18, but hey, I started levelling this guy at 1. Who knows, by then, we will probably switch to 4.0 anyway and I will have to rebuild.) First of all, this would fit in very well with my character's story. I am a tiefling rogue who discovers my roots with my demonic father and finds enlightenment with Hextor/Wee Jas. I really could care less about rebuke undead (esp. with a charisma of 6), would like to take advantage of my "natural weapons" and so on and so forth. I also think I am using some of the better breakoff points. I am thinking Evasionx2 could switch to Spell Reflect, I would get Improved Uncanny Dodge, a vicious trip attack, good range, and 11 levels of cleric spell casting ability...and the resistances/outsider status from being a tiefling have worked out amazingly well for me so far. Comments, suggestions, derisive snickering? Well, as some suggested: - Take lesser Tiefling (Player's Guide to Faerun). It will give you all the stuff of the Tiefling without the LA and without the Outsider type (you are Humanoid: Planetouched). - For unarmed combat, take the Swordsage variant. Be a Cleric and then into Ruby Knight Vindicator. You get dual progression in Cleric and Swordsage manoeuvres. I don't know the exact minimum levels you'd need for those as I am AFB. - Your unarmed damage would not be the best in the world, unfortunately, but you can strike like crazy every encounter (since the Swordsage's manoeuvres recover at the end of every encounter, more or less...).
#11 lordmaul Apr 13, 2008 18:56:46	oh, and you may consider Ascetic Rogue
#12 argyris Apr 13, 2008 20:19:09	Ack...I keep on saying Sacred Blade when I mean Sacred Fist from Complete Divine. The reason for the level in tattooed monk is that White Mask just gives you way too nice of an advantage when you are an evil character. Immune to Detect Thought, Detect Lies, and attempts to read alignment. +10 bonus on bluff checks. Add improve feint, max ranks in bluff, +2 tiefling ability...that is a lot of sneak attack damage. Son of Mercy is from Dragon magazine, and frankly, I gave up on it. I am going to look into the classes offered in Tome of Battle when I get my hands on it.