Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kerrus Mar 16, 2009 14:19:25	Recently I've been going through my books for interesting build ideas and come across one which I'm positive would be really, really fun, but similarly really, really hard to pull off. Fortunately, if I ever ran it, I'd be doing so in a party that isn't full of super-op type players. What I need, though, is some suggestions on how to pull it off. The build involves the PrC Bear Warrior from Complete Warrior. Bear Warrior is interesting, because while you transform into the shape of a bear, you retain all your own current scores, and instead get a bonus to those scores depending on the type of bear. This bonus is untyped. In addition, you only transform while in a rage or frenzy, and stay in that form until the rage/frenzy ends. So, the trick therein, is to use (probably) a druid to wildshape into a bear or another creature with rather high phys stats, then enter a rage/frenzy, turning into a bear and keeping those stats with the bonuses the bear form provides. And then going to town. The basic build I'm looking at- which is horribly inefficient, but eh, is this: Druid 8, Barbarian 2, Bear Warrior 10. I know it's suboptimal, but I'm not that clear on what to do so the druid gets Frenzy or rage without multiclassing into barbarian. Basically at 20th level, for incredible theme, the druid wildshapes into a Dire Bear and fights for a bit, gets hit, enters a rage with the associated bonuses, and then enters bearform, transforming from a Str: 31, Dex: 13, Con: 19 (we're not using polymorph eratta) Dire Bear, into a Str: 51, Dex: 15, Con: 27 Dire Bear, and all this not counting magic items or stuff like wilding clasps :p From an optimization standpoint, well, there's better things you can do. But from a thematic standpoint, I think it's hilarious. The rage lasts for 25 rounds, which should be more then enough to slaughter whathaveyou, especially with the support of a party- provided they stay out of the way, anyways. It gets even more hilarious if the party takes the 'buff the bear warrior' route prior to this happening.
#2 hogarth Mar 16, 2009 14:47:26	There's a raging druid variant in Unearthed Arcana.
#3 phaedrusxy Mar 16, 2009 15:13:08	There is also the gut worm from Fiend Folio, that lets you rage at will with no fatigue afterwards, if you can stomach it. :D
#4 Kevin_Andrew_Murphy Mar 16, 2009 15:24:34	There's a room in the free preview section for Monte Cook's new dungeonaday.com that has an altar that gives you barbarian rage from the Beast Lord.
#5 Kerrus Mar 16, 2009 15:47:42	With the Druidic Avenger variant, the progression looks like this: Druid (DA) 10/Bear Warrior 10 Rage: 3 times per day Wildshape: 4 times per day, and size large wildshape. Assorted other class features. Step 1: Wildshape into Dire Bear Step 2A: Enter Rage Step 2B: Bear Shape into a Dire Bear, gaining massive bonuses. Step 3: BREAK THINGS EDIT: For epic level thematic fun (and cheese), assuming the build has amused the DM enough: Druid (DA) 10/Bear Warrior 10/Rage Mage (Divine Variant) 10 Wildshape into a Dire Bear, enter rage, Bear Shape into the same Dire Bear gaining massive bonuses, and still be able to cast spells- and at 30th level, you can rage without becoming fatigued, assorted other bonuses, and can as a spell-like ability, cast Tenser's Transformation once a day for even further bonuses, such as making your BAB equal your ECL. Uh yeah, this build is hilarious at epic levels. Utterly underoptimized, but hilarious nevertheless.
#6 ithamar Mar 16, 2009 15:51:52	Might take some work, but try combining Primeval & Bear Warrior. You'd probably end up with better boosts to STR overall. First you change into a Dire Lion and then you change into Dire Bear.
#7 arogenith Mar 16, 2009 16:50:01	what if you tried to add in some Master of Many Forms? Would it allow you to go celestial dire bear or anything? I haven't looked at the class for a long, and can't remember exactly how it functions, but if you're basing it off of changing yourself into random animals/bears...
#8 owls_and_more_owls Mar 16, 2009 19:58:00	Might take some work, but try combining Primeval & Bear Warrior. You'd probably end up with better boosts to STR overall. First you change into a Dire Lion and then you change into Dire Bear. That's probably more optimal, but what he's going for is some sort of super double-bear. It's a pretty amusing idea. You should playtest it and tell us how it worked out.
#9 atomickitkat Mar 16, 2009 20:43:46	Dire Wolverine? That should work. Alternately, you should have the spell Rage, so that also works. Totally skips the Rage route. If you don't mind losing caster levels as it is, going Geomancer would let you Rage unlimited times per day(once per encounter) if you get the Drift where you Rage if damaged in combat. Get the Drift? I kill myself sometimes.
#10 arogenith Mar 17, 2009 0:36:41	does morphing into a bear say anything about size penalties/bonuses to strength, con, dex etc? If not, then why not get giant size, and turn into a sumo bear, and then back into a dire bear with sumo bear + strength, and then maybe double the giant size for epic bear^2 ? Does this work? I think it would be a dramatic first go. "The human morphs into a dire bear infront of your eyes, and then grows to the size of a fully grown dragon.....and then shrinks back down to the size of a dire bear 6 seconds later...and then grows to the size of said dragon again!!! And then everyone looks at you like you're crazy until you show them your 100+ strength
#11 Kerrus Mar 17, 2009 1:41:28	Bear Form specifies specific bears (Black, Brown, Dire, in that order) with increasing bonuses based on them. And yeah, I'm sort of hoping to go the super double bear route, for thematicism- no, the druid cannot wildshape into an arbitrarily large bear- bears have set sizes. Now, that said, there's no reason why a druid couldn't have an item that cast Animal Growth on her when she enters a rage, for instance. I'm going for a straignt increase in strength, rather then rapidly changing sizes. Since bonuses of the same type don't stack, I couldn't wildshape into a direbear, animal growth myself for bonuses, rage, then animal growth myself for more bonuses a second time. And it wouldn't fit the thematics either- rather, I'd probably wildshape into a bear, start fighting, and then enter the rage, and suddenly become massively stronger. Coupled with a way of increasing my size- maybe get a cleric to make me a 20th CL item that triggers when I enter a rage and casts Righteous Might on me. Expensive as all hell, but the bonuses at the end of it would be pretty nice. Str: 59, Dex: 13, Con: 31 DR 15/Evil That's a +24 strength modifer, and a + 10 con modifier. Lasts for 20 rounds. And this doesn't even count bonuses from items, or other things a 20th level character would have access to.
#12 cru Mar 17, 2009 7:59:29	Some comments to keep you closer to the mother earth: - Wildshaping into a dire bear requires 12 druid levels. - You cannot cast Animal Growth on yourself because after the errata, wildshaping does not grant animal subtype - animal growth and righteous might don't stack - transforming from a bear into a bear to stack bonuses is unlikely to be accepted by a sane DM If you ignore the errata about not being an animal, Spell Compendium has some interesting spells for you, like Enrage Animal, Bite of the Werebear or Nature's Avatar (and you can share them with your animal companion if you have one). (Bite of the XX series does not require target to be animal so it is valid even with errata) Finally, I recommend going druid 20. Druid can get enough Str without stretching the rules. You can dip Cleric 1 for Animal Devotion (+8 sacred bonus to str) if you really want.
#13 Kerrus Mar 17, 2009 11:46:15	1. As stated in the first post, we're not using the polymorph eratta. 2. I never said righteous might and animal growth stacked- I merely talked about using one or the other, particularly the other. 3. You're right about the dire bear wildshaping- I'll try to figure out some sort of workaround if possible, and if not, I might have to rework the build. 4. The point isn't running a druid 20- if I wanted cheese, I'd run a pure druid straight up. That's not what I'm aiming for. I'm aiming for a druid that transforms into a bear, that then transforms into a larger bear. If you can't bear that, then my apologies. Anyways, while an eighth level druid can't wildshape into a dire bear, unfortunately, what he can do is wildshape into a brown bear, which is 3 str away from being a dire bear anyways. So Str: 56, Dex: 13, Con: 31 One question- where does that +8 Sacred Bonus to STR come from in the Animal Domain- I'm not seeing it. Otherwise, if it's actually there and I've missed it, a potential thematically cheesy build might look like this: Druid 8/Cleric (Animal Domain) 1/Rage Mage (Divine Variant) 1/ Bear Warrior 10 He's most effective for one rage a day, in which he transforms into a brown bear, moves into combat, then if things get rough, turns into a dire bear, bringing much more STR to bear. Moreover, he has massive CON, which helps the rage last, and can cast spells while in that rage. Going a step further with Righteous Might, and he has even greater STR/CON, and is size huge. Yes, he loses some BAB from the dips, but Bear Warrior has full BAB, so he ends up with +17/+12/+7/+2 at the end of it.
#14 ithamar Mar 17, 2009 12:18:25	Here's a bit of a different take... Afflicted Werebear (6 HD, +2 LA) / Shapeshift Druid 8 / Warshaper 2 So assume Brown Bear form via Lycanthrope, shapeshift into Ferocious Slayer form (to look like a dire bear), which means you increase to size Huge and gain +8 STR. And you're immune to criticals, sneak attack, stunning, your weapon damage size increases, etc. Probably not what you're looking for, but is definitely very 'bear' oriented.
#15 Kerrus Mar 17, 2009 12:24:49	Interesting. I'll bear it in mind.
#16 phaedrusxy Mar 17, 2009 12:29:31	There's an alignment conflict, though. Werebears are always LG, while druids must be neutral. I'm sure there is a work around, but as-is, it won't work.
#17 ithamar Mar 17, 2009 12:31:06	Ah, you're right. I usually ignore the bit about lycanthrope / alignment, but I suppose it matters to some DM's.
#18 cru Mar 17, 2009 14:05:33	Animal Growth is a lvl 5 spell, try to be at least druid 9. Unfortunately, Rage Mage 1 does not increase spell casting. Animal Devotion is a feat from Complete Champion. It is fueled by turn undead + clerics can give up access to animal domain for this feat. Anyway, is Bear Warrior 10 a must? At fifth level, you get 16 Str, five another levels get you additional 4 Str. (however you can also bearshape more times per day). Warshaper 2 gives untyped 4 Str and Con. Druid 11/Rage Mage 1/Cleric 1/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 2. lvl 11 druid casting (6th level spells) lvl 13 wildshape Brown bear 27 str, 13 dex, 19 con Bear form (brown) 43 str, 15 dex, 27 con Bite of the Werebear 59 str, 17 dex, 35 con Warshaper + Rage + Animal Devotion 75 str, 17 dex, 43 con Less BAB though.