Beastmaster in Gestalt? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Beastmaster in Gestalt?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 07, 2009 23:35:04 I'm playing an Eberron campaign. Characters are 13th level gestalt. Race is Shifter. One side of the gestalt must be druid. We are playing with the Book of Experimental Might variant rules of gaining a feat every level. Rules for gestalt are as normal:

1. No dual casting prestige classes
2. No gestalt level can have a prestige class on both sides of the gestalt.

I'm looking to maximize my capabilities in dealing with animals. Here is the build I'm considering (please offer any suggestions you might have):

Shifter Druid 13 / Shifter Ranger 5 / Beastmaster^CA 8

For the Shifter Druid, I take only the first and fourth level substitutions. For Shifter Ranger, I take only the first level substitution. This nets me a beast spirit in addition to an animal companion as though I were a straight druid. Additionally, I gain two extra companions, albeit weak ones.

This build has some good points:

Good BAB, Wild Empathy based on Wisdom instead of Charisma, a +4 to Wild Empathy and Handle Animal; going Dreamsight, I get another +2 to each.

Things that would improve the build: do something to make Beastmaster be an actually useful prestige class, remove Wild Empathy from druid and replace it with something else (since the Ranger version is better), find additional ways to increase Handle Animal and Wild Empathy. Any suggestions?
#2
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 08, 2009 0:32:46 Here's one option:

Voice of the City (CS, web): Lose wild empathy to gain the ability to communicate with people who speak languages you do not know.

Additionally, Unearthed Arcana has a variant for bard where the bard gains an animal companion as a druid. That, combined with Beastmaster, would grant me a much more powerful animal companion. I have enough feat slots to take Natural Bond multiple times (as my DM allows that feat to work for more powerful animal companions). A Horrid Bear with ten bonus hit dice would be pretty nice! So, that opens up this progression:

1-5 Shifter Druid/Nature Bard
6 Shifter Druid / Beastmaster
7-8 Shifter Druid / Nature Bard
9-13 Moonspeaker / Nature Bard

My DM says that I can take Natural Bond to improve my Beast Spirit if I want, so taking it seven times, I have maximized both my Animal Companion and my Beast Spirit, and I'm still left with six feats, all of which can be metamagic feats which are treated as shifter feats.
#3
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 08, 2009 8:41:42 Oh, I just talked to my DM again. Apparently I misunderstood him. He says that I can only take the feat Natural Bond once, but I can choose to apply the bonus either to one of my animal companions or to my Beast Spirit. I asked if I had multiple animal companions if I could take it once for each of them, and he said no. Feats that allow you to take more than once specifically state that they allow this.
#4
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 09, 2009 2:52:38 So, does anyone have a suggestion for a good method of having a strong animal companion while still giving up my animal companion to Shifter Druid?
#5
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 09, 2009 17:30:47 I talked to my DM, and he said that the Generic classes would work. He is allowing me to use one feat to get Half-level towards animal companion and another to get full level. He also said that I can use a feat to apply my Wis modifier to Wild Empathy and Handle Animal checks instead of Charisma.
#6
surreal
Apr 09, 2009 21:48:55 How about the wild cohort feat?
#7
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 10, 2009 3:43:22 While a good suggestion, I'm liking the possibility of having a horrid bear animal companion (which is possible with a class that grants full Animal Companion levels and one level of Beastmaster).
#8
keithio
Apr 10, 2009 9:43:31 How about a gestalt supermount? This uses the devoted tracker feat which allows your paladin mount to be your druid animal companion and stack the bonuses from each.

Side1: Paladin5/Beastmaster1/WildPlainsOutrider3/HalflingOutrider10/x1
Side2: Druid2/Bloodline1/Druid2/Bloodline1/Druid5/Bloodline1/Druid8

Animal Companion Level: [17+3](Druid)+[4+3](Beastmaster)+[10+3](Halfling) = 40
Paladin Mount Level: [5+3](Paladin)+[3+3](WildPlains)+[10+3](Halfling) = 27

That thing would be a beast.

Non bloodline version:

Side1: Paladin5/Beastmaster1/WildPlainsOutrider3/HalflingOutrider10/x1
Side2: Druid20

Animal Companion Level: [20](Druid)+[4](Beastmaster)+[10](Halfling) = 34
Paladin Mount Level: [5](Paladin)+[3](WildPlains)+[10](Halfling) = 18

It's still a beast.
#9
tos_shai_hulud
Apr 10, 2009 10:52:08 While interesting ideas, none of the paladin variants are available to the druid. In fact, they are diametrically opposed (paladins require non-neutral alignments while druids require neutral on one axis). Good suggestion, though!
#10
keithio
Apr 10, 2009 12:00:08 Silly alignment restrictions on paladin, bah humbug.

Well, my second attempt abuses stacking druid and ranger in gestalt to add them both to animal companion. RAW, this is following gestalt rules as I know them, although it is probably says you can't pull this somewhere.

Basically I'm using the fact that a Druid20//Ranger20 has an animal companion of 30th level... but optimized.

SideA: Ranger2/Bloodline1/Ranger2/Bloodline1/BeastMaster1/WildPlainsOutrider1/HalflingOutrider3/bloodline1/HalflingOutrider7/WildPlainsOutrider1
SideB: Druid20

RANGER Effective Druid Level Contribution:
4 Ranger
3 Ranger bloodline
10 halfling
3 halfling bloodline
20 total

Effective Druid Level:
20 druid
3 druid bloodline
4 beastmaster
3 beastmaster bloodline
10 halfling
3 halfling bloodline
2 wildplains
3 wildplains bloodline
10 from ranger
58 total

58 effective druid level animal companion. Rawr.
#11
sofawall
Apr 10, 2009 12:08:41 Ranger and Druid companions are different beasts. You would have one weak beast and one tank one.

Also, if one didn't have to be druid, Prestige ranger is f-ing tank for supermounts.
#12
keithio
Apr 10, 2009 12:19:33 Oh, I just sort of assumed they stacked : /

That's too bad, still though the level 48 druid one is pretty pimp.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tos_shai_hulud Apr 07, 2009 23:35:04	I'm playing an Eberron campaign. Characters are 13th level gestalt. Race is Shifter. One side of the gestalt must be druid. We are playing with the Book of Experimental Might variant rules of gaining a feat every level. Rules for gestalt are as normal: 1. No dual casting prestige classes 2. No gestalt level can have a prestige class on both sides of the gestalt. I'm looking to maximize my capabilities in dealing with animals. Here is the build I'm considering (please offer any suggestions you might have): Shifter Druid 13 / Shifter Ranger 5 / Beastmaster^CA 8 For the Shifter Druid, I take only the first and fourth level substitutions. For Shifter Ranger, I take only the first level substitution. This nets me a beast spirit in addition to an animal companion as though I were a straight druid. Additionally, I gain two extra companions, albeit weak ones. This build has some good points: Good BAB, Wild Empathy based on Wisdom instead of Charisma, a +4 to Wild Empathy and Handle Animal; going Dreamsight, I get another +2 to each. Things that would improve the build: do something to make Beastmaster be an actually useful prestige class, remove Wild Empathy from druid and replace it with something else (since the Ranger version is better), find additional ways to increase Handle Animal and Wild Empathy. Any suggestions?
#2 tos_shai_hulud Apr 08, 2009 0:32:46	Here's one option: Voice of the City (CS, web): Lose wild empathy to gain the ability to communicate with people who speak languages you do not know. Additionally, Unearthed Arcana has a variant for bard where the bard gains an animal companion as a druid. That, combined with Beastmaster, would grant me a much more powerful animal companion. I have enough feat slots to take Natural Bond multiple times (as my DM allows that feat to work for more powerful animal companions). A Horrid Bear with ten bonus hit dice would be pretty nice! So, that opens up this progression: 1-5 Shifter Druid/Nature Bard 6 Shifter Druid / Beastmaster 7-8 Shifter Druid / Nature Bard 9-13 Moonspeaker / Nature Bard My DM says that I can take Natural Bond to improve my Beast Spirit if I want, so taking it seven times, I have maximized both my Animal Companion and my Beast Spirit, and I'm still left with six feats, all of which can be metamagic feats which are treated as shifter feats.
#3 tos_shai_hulud Apr 08, 2009 8:41:42	Oh, I just talked to my DM again. Apparently I misunderstood him. He says that I can only take the feat Natural Bond once, but I can choose to apply the bonus either to one of my animal companions or to my Beast Spirit. I asked if I had multiple animal companions if I could take it once for each of them, and he said no. Feats that allow you to take more than once specifically state that they allow this.
#4 tos_shai_hulud Apr 09, 2009 2:52:38	So, does anyone have a suggestion for a good method of having a strong animal companion while still giving up my animal companion to Shifter Druid?
#5 tos_shai_hulud Apr 09, 2009 17:30:47	I talked to my DM, and he said that the Generic classes would work. He is allowing me to use one feat to get Half-level towards animal companion and another to get full level. He also said that I can use a feat to apply my Wis modifier to Wild Empathy and Handle Animal checks instead of Charisma.
#6 surreal Apr 09, 2009 21:48:55	How about the wild cohort feat?
#7 tos_shai_hulud Apr 10, 2009 3:43:22	While a good suggestion, I'm liking the possibility of having a horrid bear animal companion (which is possible with a class that grants full Animal Companion levels and one level of Beastmaster).
#8 keithio Apr 10, 2009 9:43:31	How about a gestalt supermount? This uses the devoted tracker feat which allows your paladin mount to be your druid animal companion and stack the bonuses from each. Side1: Paladin5/Beastmaster1/WildPlainsOutrider3/HalflingOutrider10/x1 Side2: Druid2/Bloodline1/Druid2/Bloodline1/Druid5/Bloodline1/Druid8 Animal Companion Level: [17+3](Druid)+[4+3](Beastmaster)+[10+3](Halfling) = 40 Paladin Mount Level: [5+3](Paladin)+[3+3](WildPlains)+[10+3](Halfling) = 27 That thing would be a beast. Non bloodline version: Side1: Paladin5/Beastmaster1/WildPlainsOutrider3/HalflingOutrider10/x1 Side2: Druid20 Animal Companion Level: [20](Druid)+[4](Beastmaster)+[10](Halfling) = 34 Paladin Mount Level: [5](Paladin)+[3](WildPlains)+[10](Halfling) = 18 It's still a beast.
#9 tos_shai_hulud Apr 10, 2009 10:52:08	While interesting ideas, none of the paladin variants are available to the druid. In fact, they are diametrically opposed (paladins require non-neutral alignments while druids require neutral on one axis). Good suggestion, though!
#10 keithio Apr 10, 2009 12:00:08	Silly alignment restrictions on paladin, bah humbug. Well, my second attempt abuses stacking druid and ranger in gestalt to add them both to animal companion. RAW, this is following gestalt rules as I know them, although it is probably says you can't pull this somewhere. Basically I'm using the fact that a Druid20//Ranger20 has an animal companion of 30th level... but optimized. SideA: Ranger2/Bloodline1/Ranger2/Bloodline1/BeastMaster1/WildPlainsOutrider1/HalflingOutrider3/bloodline1/HalflingOutrider7/WildPlainsOutrider1 SideB: Druid20 RANGER Effective Druid Level Contribution: 4 Ranger 3 Ranger bloodline 10 halfling 3 halfling bloodline 20 total Effective Druid Level: 20 druid 3 druid bloodline 4 beastmaster 3 beastmaster bloodline 10 halfling 3 halfling bloodline 2 wildplains 3 wildplains bloodline 10 from ranger 58 total 58 effective druid level animal companion. Rawr.
#11 sofawall Apr 10, 2009 12:08:41	Ranger and Druid companions are different beasts. You would have one weak beast and one tank one. Also, if one didn't have to be druid, Prestige ranger is f-ing tank for supermounts.
#12 keithio Apr 10, 2009 12:19:33	Oh, I just sort of assumed they stacked : / That's too bad, still though the level 48 druid one is pretty pimp.