| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #13djutsuMar 15, 2007 11:07:39 | Ok, so I was wondering if it is possible to gain more than 16d6 SA at 20th level? Some of you might be wondering how I came to 16d6, here ya go. 3d6 - 5th lv Rogue 5d6 - 10th lv Assassin 3d6 - 5th lv Invisible Blade (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) 1d6 - Rogues Vest (DMG II) 2d6 - Precision Enchantment (Com Ad) 2d6 - Assassins Stance (ToB) Gained via two feats --- Total 16d6 With IB weapons, more than a pure Rogue can do! BAB - +15/+10/+5 With Greater TWF - +13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 Thats 96d6 SA if ALL of your attacks hit. Can anyone add any more? Anymore aside from ditching that last level in Assassin that is (I likes me spells and such) |
| #2JanusJonesMar 15, 2007 11:09:31 | Try Dragonfire Strike for another d6. Indigo Strike will grant +2 SA damage per essentia invested. |
| #3lordbob777Mar 15, 2007 12:34:55 | not necessarly SA dice, but the Sword of Subtlety from the DMG might help out. |
| #4salrantolMar 15, 2007 13:00:53 | 2d6 3 levels rogue 2d6 3 levels assassin 2d6 3 levels guild thief 2d6 3 levels Shadow Thief of Amn 2d6 3 levels invisible blade 1d6 1 level ronin 1d6 1 level nightsong enforcer 2d6 3 levels psychic rogue =14d6 without any items |
| #5raphael_maureMar 15, 2007 13:28:56 | Nightsong enforcer 1. Fighter variant from UA (again, a single level dip). Both are also good for your BAB. |
| #6rilemMar 15, 2007 13:33:56 | 16d6 With IB weapons, more than a pure Rogue can do! Considering 5d6 of your damage comes from items, big whoop. Rogue19/Any SA class1 gets the same amount. But since you asked, get yourself Polymorphed into a kelvezu. |
| #7fruitoftheshroomMar 15, 2007 13:46:20 | Considering 5d6 of your damage comes from items, big whoop. Rogue19/Any SA class1 gets the same amount. 3d6 comes from items, not 5 But yeah, basically a rogue 19/SA class 1 would have one less sneak attack if it also took the feats for assassin's stance. I can get far more without taking a single level in rogue or a SA class. Artificer 20 persistent polymorph into Kelvezu 8d6, persistent that spell in the PH2 that gives 1d6 per 3 caster levels (5d6), nightstalker's transformation (4d6 I think) is 17d6 before any normal items. Not to mention all the other boosts, like persistent haste, improved blink, freedom of movement, and all the other goodies that artificers get. |
| #83djutsuMar 15, 2007 14:11:19 | Salrantol, I like the idea, but thats a lot of class levels. Rilem, Fruits calculations are correct, only 3d6 is from items. Rilem, Fruit, how are you guys using Polymorph to gain an outsider form? And I guess I should have been more specific, is there a way to gain more Sneak Attack with the build I currently have? |
| #9rilemMar 15, 2007 14:15:44 | Rilem, Fruits calculations are correct, only 3d6 is from items. Excuse me, items or a feat that a rogue can take, too. No reason for those to count at all with a comparison to a straight rogue. As for outsider forms, you do it the same way everybody does: Use a base outsider race like lesser tiefling or the Otherworldly feat. Oh, and of course Artificers can do this better, no question. |
| #103djutsuMar 15, 2007 14:20:51 | Ahh, I missed that part in Polymorph, thanks for pointing that out. |
| #11SenevriMar 15, 2007 17:08:54 | Isn't there a Vestige that also grants SA? |
| #12fruitoftheshroomMar 15, 2007 21:31:53 | Excuse me, items or a feat that a rogue can take, too. No reason for those to count at all with a comparison to a straight rogue. I don't see how a rogue can afford all those wands AND persistent all those spells. And sorry, there are a handful of spells between 3-6th level that give you the outsider type. I can't name any off the top of my head, AFB, but Fiendform is one I think. |
| #13Blade2718Mar 15, 2007 21:56:19 | Nightstalker's transformation in Complete Adventurer (I think) gives you a bunch of SA dice too. Use it after you've used every other spell-based SA buff, since it cuts you off from spellcasting. However, anything a Rogue can do, an Artificer can do better. |
| #14zombiegleemaxMar 16, 2007 3:54:33 | rogue spell thief ninja rokninja fighter varient psychic rogue nightsong assassin IB guildthief shadow thief ronin mole oppressor poisoner replacement killer zhent spy craven feat subtely sword precise strike rogue vest assassins stance thats 22d6 and three levels left, i believe you could meet all them, not sure |
| #15friendlyfrogMar 16, 2007 6:27:32 | Elven Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen seer 7/Arcane trickster 8. Feats: Otherworldly (PGtF), Practiced spellcaster (CArc), Extend spell, Persistent spell (CArc), Martial study: any Shadow hand (ToB), Martial stance: Assassin's stance (ToB), Craven (CoR). Advanced learning spells: Hunter's eye (PHBII), Grave strike (SC). Equipment: Ring of arcane might (CArc), Orange ioun stone, Rogue's vest (DMGII), Metamagic rod: Extend, +1 Rapier of Deadly precision and Speed (CAdv), +1 Necklace of natural weapons of Deadly precision (CAdv and SS). Active spells: persistent Hunter's eye (PHBII), persistent Wraithstrike (SC), persistent Grave strike (SC), persistent Golem strike (SC), extended Nightstalker's transformation, Polymorph any object into Kelvezu. 2d6 - Rogue 3d6 - Unseen seer 4d6 - Arcane trickster 8d6 - PAO into Kelvezu 8d6 - Persistent Hunter's eye 3d6 - Extended Nightstalker's transfomation 2d6 - Assassin's stance 1d6 - Rogue's vest 2d6 - Deadly precision 20 - Craven Total sneak attack -- 33d6+20 Each attack the character makes is a touch attack, thanks to persistent Wraithstrike, and the character can sneak attack constructs and undead. Though there is no room for two-weapon fighting feats, so the character needs to use spells to get more than only four attacks. |
| #16AcridMar 16, 2007 16:19:51 | yeah i siggesut a persisted hunters eye, adss 2d6 SA per 3 caster lvl from PHB 2 is a 2nd lvl ranger spell |
| #17tlMar 17, 2007 11:57:34 | Assassination enchantment from Cityscape Web Enhancements adds 1d6 SA for a +1 price Critical Strike spell is 1st Ass, Brd or Sor/Wiz spell that also grants +1d6 SA, keen effect and +4 insight bonus on rolls made to confirm critical threats --- two question: if a spell has a swift casting time, is it possible to activate item with it as a swift action? I heard once about +5 enhancement that doubles the number of SA dice... anybody knows about it? |
| #18zombiegleemaxMar 22, 2007 1:59:13 | There is a feat in Oriental Adventures that grants you an additional 1d6 SA that can be taken five times over for a total +5d6 SA. It has only a single feat prerequisite that is easy to fulfill, but i'd waive it honestly since UA came out and made fighter feats equivalently tradable for SA. That still makes it expensive at 5 feats, so you really got to weigh it against the opportunity cost. Still, combined with the other builds in this I'm eyeballing, you could easily get well over 27d6 sneak attack per hit for a grand total of 108d6 if four of those attacks hit, that is if I'm reading these builds right. |
| #19blue23Mar 22, 2007 6:28:34 | Rogue 3 / Swashbuckler 17 with the Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel matches the Sneak Attack from class from the OP, but with more iterative attacks. Add in level of various other classes listed by Salrantol and Raana while trying to keep the feats for Daring Outlaw, TWF chain, and Assassin's Stance and keep BAB at +16 or higher can up it from there. Cheers, =Blue(23) |
| #20muspelheimMar 22, 2007 8:54:55 | Thats 96d6 SA if ALL of your attacks hit. Can anyone add any more? Anymore aside from ditching that last level in Assassin that is (I likes me spells and such) Actually, just to nit-pick, level 10 is the one that gives you your last sneak attack die from assassin (it gives sneak attack at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th). |
| #21phoenix00Mar 22, 2007 9:52:08 | This won't be useful to near epic. But remember you can cast personal spells into a ring of spell storing including personal spells which has the persistent spell applied to them. Thus you can have an archivist/unseen seer cast persistent hunter's eye into a ring and give it to the rogue. That should be about 8d6 more sneak attack the rogue can do. Afterwards he gives the ring back to the wizard who now casts persistent wraithstrike in it. Finally polymorph into Kelvezu 8d6 So what a rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 with daring outlaw 10d6 Sneak Attack rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 2d6 - Assassins Stance (ToB) Gained via two feats 1d6 - Rogues Vest (DMG II) 2d6 - Precision Enchantment (Com Ad) +2 1d6 - Assassination (Cityscape web enhancement) +1 (note it also increases poison dcs by the weapon enhancement value, cast greater magic weapon on it and its +5 to death attack if you were doing that) 8d6 - Persistent Hunter's Eye (you might be able to get 9d6 with enough sneak attack boosting items) Can get obscene if you do a Red Wizard/Unseen Seer 8d6 - Polymorph or PAO into Kelvezu 1d6 Persistent Critical Strike 20 - Craven 33d6 with 8 attacks (4+3 TWF+1 Haste) I can further optimize this, but I don't really want to. Ring of Spellstoring costs 200,000 gp if you buy it. 100,000 if you craft it, and if you have the right feat only 75,000 gp. 8,000 xp if you craft it, 6,000 xp if you have the right feat reducing xp costs. |
| #22gavinfoxxMay 23, 2007 20:19:29 | What about bracers of the hunter, from secrets of xen'drik? add 1d6 there! |
| #23OpakeDragonDec 28, 2007 9:25:10 | Actually, just to nit-pick, level 10 is the one that gives you your last sneak attack die from assassin (it gives sneak attack at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th). you are wrong 9th level is the last to give sneak attack. Page 180 of the DMG shows the sneak attack increase starting first level then increasing every two just like the rogue(1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th). |
| #24killgreedy_dupDec 28, 2007 12:29:23 | Assassin's table says it gives Sneak Attack at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. The actual text for Sneak Attacks says 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. According to the FAQ text overrides stat blocks/tables. |
| #25true_shinkenDec 28, 2007 14:10:42 | Drop Assassin and Invisible Blade for Swashbuckler and take Daring Outlaw. Go Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 15/Nightsong Enforcer 1 and make the rest as you did it anyway - that keeps your SA in the same level, adds Int to damage and raises your BAB to 19. |
| #26sinfire_titanDec 28, 2007 14:45:19 | Fingerblade (Sandstorm) with the Decisive Strike enchantment? +2d6 total. |
| #27ander_spectacularDec 28, 2007 14:47:01 | And you might as well get the Shadow Blade feat from ToB for Dex to damage as well. -AS- |
| #28sinfire_titanDec 28, 2007 14:50:01 | Elven Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen seer 7/Arcane trickster 8. Ok, now it is fixed. Just need to work in another feat, to get EWP for the Fingerblade. |
| #29operation_shoestringDec 28, 2007 16:07:39 | Spellthief1/Conjurer5/Unseen seer 8/Divine oracle2/Arcane trickster4 1d6 Spellthief 3d6 Unseen Seer 2d6 Arcane Trickster 8d6 Hunter's eye 2d6 Assassin's stance 16d6, as much as the OP, and 19th level casting. Perfectly playable too, unlike that that polymorphing monstronsity (which should drop two rogue levels for more casting, seriously) Also, that build only gets 7d6 from hunter's eye. Your divination CL is 22. |
| #30friendlyfrogDec 28, 2007 17:00:44 | Perfectly playable too, unlike that that polymorphing monstronsity (which should drop two rogue levels for more casting, seriously) Also, that build only gets 7d6 from hunter's eye. Your divination CL is 22. That build's not even supposed to be playable, it's just an exercise at getting as high a sneak attack as possible. And magic items can be used to boost the CL. |
| #31olikJan 01, 2008 2:53:09 | Ive been culling through this thread to get some ideas for my swashbuckler/rogue build, and there are alot of good ideas here, but as its already been stated, all of the good ideas mashed into one character make one big bad idea. Anywho, Im looking at Swashbuckler 5 / Rogue 10 / Something 5. I want telling blow and improved critical. i use a rapier so i think that would boost the crit range up to 16-20/x2 ? Regardless, at level 15 ill have 8d6 from classes. What would i have to do to get Assassin's stance? i have alot of books but i dont have ToB, so i dont know what this is. if someone could type up a little snippet so i can use it as a reference, that would be awesome =) And also some of the stuff i dont have books on that i cant seem to find any online sources for, but would like some snippets if anyone is willing: Finger blade? Wraithstrike / Gravestrike / Golemstrike? and some little questions im hoping someone might be able to answer: With 5 levels left, would i be able to get Hunter's Eye, and/or Wraithstrike? If the answer is yes, would i be able to make them "Persistant"? Is there any practicall way to up my SA without giving up my rogue or swashbuckler levels? (IE ways that dont cost a ton of gold or experience) Right now im sitting on 8d6 from levels, and 2d6 from Deadly Precision enhancement. I also have a Fire Assault crystal (1d6 fire) and Flame enhancement (1d6 / 1d6) on my weapon which is a +3 rapier Sorry if these questions seem kinda dumb, but most all of the magic spells and items that cast magic spells and anything that has to deal with casting or working with magic confuses and frustrates me, so i dont understand about 90% of how it all works. any help here would be appreciated. PS: sorry for derailing the thread. Responses, if any, can be PMed to me if you like. Thanks in advance for the tips, snippets and assistance! =) |
| #32sinfire_titanJan 01, 2008 3:00:28 | Ive been culling through this thread to get some ideas for my swashbuckler/rogue build, and there are alot of good ideas here, but as its already been stated, all of the good ideas mashed into one character make one big bad idea. The Fingerblade is a light, exotic weapon that has identical stats to a rapier, but deals an extra d6 of damage on a SA. Wraithstrike makes all of your attacks for one round act as touch attacks. Golem and Grave Strike allow you to use SA on a construct or undead, but only for one round each. All three can be Persisted, and are amazing when it happens. |
| #33olikJan 01, 2008 14:43:24 | whats the feat that allows you to reroll 1's on sneak attack dice? that would seem like a must for anything that uses sneak attack as a bread and butter ability. |
| #34operation_shoestringJan 01, 2008 17:16:02 | oh, i forgot. You can empower Hunter's eye unles i am mistaken. Up that to 12d6 SA. |
| #35sinfire_titanJan 01, 2008 17:34:31 | whats the feat that allows you to reroll 1's on sneak attack dice? that would seem like a must for anything that uses sneak attack as a bread and butter ability. Demonic Sneak Attack? Not worth it, you don't have enough Abyssal Heirator feats. Thereby, you would only get to reroll 1d6 SA. |
| #36friendlyfrogJan 01, 2008 17:59:27 | Demonic Sneak Attack? Not worth it, you don't have enough Abyssal Heirator feats. Thereby, you would only get to reroll 1d6 SA. Deadly precision, from XPH, more likely. |
| #37sinfire_titanJan 02, 2008 1:31:09 | Deadly precision, from XPH, more likely. That, on the other hand, is quite nice. Maybe, if you can work it in there. |
| #38olikJan 03, 2008 11:56:07 | Lurk 20. level 18 Lurk ability: Lurk Augment (three at once) "Using an augment is a swift action. when powering an augment with power points, a lurk cannot spend more total power points than her total lurk level on any single lurk augment. a lurk can use her lurk augment a total number of times per day equal to her lurk level + intelligence modifier." Lurk Augments by level 1st - Additional Sneak attack. Additional Sneak Attack: "The lurk's next attack deals an additional 1d6 points of damage from a sneak attack. for every 2 power points spent, this damage increases by 1d6 points. The attack must be one which sneak attack damage applies. Minimum level; 1st." lvl 20 lurk can spend 20 power points on an augment, and can also "preform" 3 augments simultaneously. Lurk augment #1 = Additional Sneak Attack. 20 points invested for +10d6 Lurk Augment #2 = Additional Sneak Attack. 20 points invested for +10d6 Lurk Augment #3 = Additional Sneak Attack. 20 points invested for +10d6 Lurk level 20 = +4d6 SA. thats 34d6 SA that can be used twice a day before burning through all the lurks power points. Assassin's Stance +2d6 Fingerblade +1d6 Rogue's vest +1d6 Deadly Strike enhancement +2d6 Hunter's Eye +6d6 (casted on a ring by an appropriate NPC and given to the PC) +46d6 SA 2 times a day, according to a literal translation of the rules, anyway. EWP, Martial Study, Martial Stance, and the rest of the feat slots are open i believe. |
| #39arminelFeb 18, 2008 14:57:17 | How's this for a once per encounter? Lesser Tiefling (or Grey Elf) Facotum 20 Two flaws (1, two flaws, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) Font of Inspiration Inspiration Points: 10 (class levels) + 45 (feats) = 55 Arcane Dilletante (1 IP, Nightstalker's Transformation): 3d6 SA Cunning Brilliance (4 IP, 15th level Rogue Sneak Attack): 7d6 SA Cunning Strike (1 IP per 1d6 SA, used 50 times in a round): 50d6 SA So, that's 61d6 SA on a single attack. For more: Cunning Brilliance (4 IP, -4d6 SA, Combat Style Mastery as 15th level Ranger) Cunning Surge (3 IP, -3d6 SA, extra standard action) Arcane Dilettante (1 IP, Heroics, Quick Draw) Cunning Knowledge (1 IP, +20 to Iaijutsu Focus) Maxed Ranks in Iaijutsu Focus Iaijutsu Focus Weapon (OA, +640gp) 1d20+47 Iaijutsu Focus check in the same round as the SA. If the roll is 1 or 2, +8d6 damage. If the roll is 3 or higher, +9d6 damage per hit. A Charisma of 14, Circlet of Persuasion, or Cloak of Charisma +4 make this an auto-50 for +9d6 damage. Also, with Cunning Surge, it doesn't take up an action. I'm sure there's some sort of balance between number of points used between Cunning Strike and Cunning Surge, but I'm too lazy to calculate. Anyways, cheers! ^^; |
| #40sinfire_titanFeb 18, 2008 15:08:46 | How's this for a once per encounter? Wild Shape (Su) Tell me something: How in the Nine Hells do you use Cunning Brilliance to Wild Shape? |
| #41arminelFeb 18, 2008 15:13:58 | My mistake I suppose? Take it out, as I hadn't explored the possibility too far. |
| #42zelck_dupFeb 18, 2008 16:32:31 | Well, this is pure cheese, but you could do something like this:I'll one-up you on that, if you don't mind casting from items: If you can find some way of casting Hunter's Eye as a Ur-Priest, you'd get 60d6 sneak attack right there. |
| #43sinfire_titanFeb 18, 2008 17:03:30 | Well, this is pure cheese, but you could do something like this: A single level of archivist gives access to Hunter's Eye, IIRC. |
| #44true_shinkenFeb 18, 2008 17:13:54 | I believe the trick does not work. Bloodlines adds to benefits from class levels - illumians bonus to caster level has nothing to do with class levels at all. |
| #45webjiciFeb 19, 2008 14:55:22 | The Fingerblade is a light, exotic weapon that has identical stats to a rapier, but deals an extra d6 of damage on a SA. Hate to break it to you, but the fingerblade deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on a flat-footed foe on the first round of combat only... yeah, it is a busted idea. |
| #46sinfire_titanFeb 19, 2008 16:33:27 | Hate to break it to you, but the fingerblade deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on a flat-footed foe on the first round of combat only... yeah, it is a busted idea. And your point? It counts towards this idea, none the less. It is subject to all of the same restrictions as a normal SA, with the addition of being 1st round only. |
| #47prime361Feb 20, 2008 18:08:04 | I am trying to get a 7th level rogue/assassin as much SA with items as possilbe while still maintaining the ability to reliably hide/move silently. I am AFB at the moment and can't even check the WBL to see for myself, if someone could tell me level 7 wealth it would save you guys some trouble. Otherwise, can anyone point out what the best choices are for a level 7(based on WBL) please? So far what I can gather is a +1 Fingerblade of Assassination w/ Bracers of the Hunter. Depending on cost I would also like to get Boots/Cloak of Elvenkind to boost hide/move silent. What do you guys think for a basic sneak up and Death Strike NPC? The Prime Suspect |
| #48Midnight_vMar 27, 2008 10:14:05 | Bump |
| #49keefburtonMar 27, 2008 11:07:53 | Lurk 20. Sorry, but one paragraph down it states that power points spent are still limited to your lurk/manifester level. So you would have to split the power points between augments, so... 10 points for SA augments one, 6 points for SA augment two, and 4 points for SA augment three... which is pointless. A Lurk 20 can still get 15d6 SA (4d6 SA from psionic SA, 1d6 from burning an SA augment, and 10d6 for powering the augment) with no items or need for class dips, which is pretty solid. |