Str: 11 (13-2 for racial)
Dex: 20 (17+2 for racial + 1 from fourth level)
Con: 15
Int: 18
wis: 16
cha: 14
However, after this i quickly got lost. Rogues have so many class skills, I feel like there are only so many ways you can go. Having not played before, I am having trouble knowing which skills will be useful how often, and I'm worried i'll take useless skills.
As far as feats go, I get one at 1st level, one at 3rd, and one at 6th. I think that weapon finesse is a really good feat, considering my 20 dex. However, is there a similar feat that allows me to do the same to my damage rolls? that would be really cool. Besides that feat, many look interesting, but i don't know what route is best to take for my rogue.
Thanks,
Aaron
A. Persuasion (Diplomacy/bluff7intimidate)
B. Sneaking (hide, move silently, disguise, forgery)
C. Anti-Sneaking (spot, listen, sense motive)
D. Trapfinding (search, open locks, disable device)
E. Movement (tumble, jump, climb, swim, balance, escape artist)
F. Magic and knowledge (use magic device and knowledge skills)
with an intelligence of 18 and rigue as base class we are looking at 12 skill points which is an awesome lot.
Personally, I like to mix things, with a focus on persuasion.
No matter what you do, take tumble and use magic device. Those are the only skills I can say every rogue should have no matter what.
try this.... dont worry about Sneak Attacking... take the Simple Variant from UA found here and get Feats from the fighter Bonus list instead:
Halfling
Feat Rogue Variant 4/ Ranger 2... then go with Master Thrower
Feats:
1st lvl: Education
Point Blank Shot(bonus)
2nd lvl: Weapon Finnesse(bonus)
3rd lvl: Knowledge Devotion
4th lvl: Weapon Focus(Dagger)(bonus)
5th lvl: Track(bonus)
6th lvl: Precise Shot
TWF(bonus)
skills:..104 skill points to spend
5 ranks Hide
5 ranks Tumble
5 ranks Spot
5 ranks Search
5 ranks Open locks
5 ranks Disable device
5 ranks Use Magic Device
5 ranks Balance
5 ranks Slight of Hand
5 ranks Diplomacy
5 ranks Bluff
5 ranks Sense Motive
5 ranks Knowledge(Arcana)
5 ranks Knowledge(Dungeoneering)
5 ranks Knowledge(Local)
5 ranks Knowledge(Nature)
5 ranks Knowledge(Nobility and royalty)
5 ranks Knowledge(Religion)
5 ranks Knowledge(The planes)
1 rank Knowledge(Architecture and engineering)
1 rank Knowledge(Geography)
1 rank Knowledge(History)
3 Skill Tricks:
Clever Improviser(CSco p085)Req: Disable Device: 5 ranks, Open Lock: 5 ranks
You can make Disable Device and/or Open Lock checks without Thieves’ Tools and not take the standard –2 penalty. If you fail one of these checks, you cannot use this ability again until you have rested 8 hours.
Collector of Stories(CSco p085)req: Know (any): 5 ranks
Receive a +5 Competence bonus on trained Knowledge check to remember the
special ability / vulnerability of a creature.
Nimble Charge(CSco p087)req: Balance: 5 ranks You can Run or Charge across a Difficult Surface without needing to make a
Balance check.
go for the Master Thrower Prestige Class
:D
Fort +7
Ref +13
Will +5
good BAB .... +5 ....so using only Dex... gets +12 Attack with Dagger(+14 Thrown)...even higher with Knowledge Devotion...all without Magic
with TWF... gets +10/+10(+12/+12 thrown)
Damage is good also with Knowledge Devotion
is very useful out of Combat, can do any Rogue skill things well
good for a Beginner, allows them to learn how to play effectively
:D
second, looks like a solid simple build carnivore.
few suggestions:
if multiclass penalties are banned, take a 1-level dip into factotum, and the feat able learner. that will net you effectively all skills as class skills.
take the feat jack of all trades. basically lets you use trained only skills even if you have no ranks in them
swashbuckler 3 will net you int to damage, which is good, seeing as you have a high int.
Since the OP also mentions that his GM likes powerful characters, I can add in this build:
Rogue3/Wizard2/Daggerspell mage10/Unseen Seer 5.
Daggerspell Mage is from Complete Adventurer
Unseen seer is from Complete Mage
This build is a bit more complex, but in terms of how it plays it is very simple, and versatile. This build will let you be a better rogue than a rogue, and cast spells as a powerful spellcaster. If this sounds interesting, take a look here.
Hello, I am just beginning to play d&d, with a group of my friends. A lot of them have played before, especially the DM. He prefers if we have really powerful characters, so I created my ability scores by rolling 6 dice, and even rerolling any ones that were rolled. I came up with 18,17,16,15,14,13 ironically. I thought that being a halfling. we were starting at 6th level, so I made my abiltie scores
Str: 11 (13-2 for racial)
Dex: 20 (17+2 for racial + 1 from fourth level)
Con: 15
Int: 18
wis: 16
cha: 14
However, after this i quickly got lost. Rogues have so many class skills, I feel like there are only so many ways you can go. Having not played before, I am having trouble knowing which skills will be useful how often, and I'm worried i'll take useless skills.
As far as feats go, I get one at 1st level, one at 3rd, and one at 6th. I think that weapon finesse is a really good feat, considering my 20 dex. However, is there a similar feat that allows me to do the same to my damage rolls? that would be really cool. Besides that feat, many look interesting, but i don't know what route is best to take for my rogue.
Thanks,
Aaron
Generally, it's like this:
- Appraise: Ignore.
- Balance: 5 ranks.
- Bluff: 5 ranks or better if you use it for feinting/feat/ability, etc.
- Climb: Ignore.
- Craft: Alchemy is a nice one. Otherwise just spend 1 rank in those craft specialities you like. Generally ignore.
- Decipher Script: Ignore.
- Diplomacy: Max.
- Disable Device: Max if going for trapfinding. Otherwise ignore.
- Disguise: Ignore. If you need it, get a hat of disguise.
- Escape Artist: If your DM uses grapplers and your grapple check suffers (small size, bad strength modifier, etc) spending some ranks here to escape from a pinned condition is ok.
- Forgery: Ignore.
- Gather Information: Ignore.
- Hide: Max if snipping. Otherwise ignore.
- Intimidate: Max if going for demoralize. Otherwise ignore.
- Jump: 5 ranks for the synergy.
- Knowledge (Local): 5 ranks for the synergy.
- Listen: Spend some ranks here if you are the party scout.
- Move Silently: Usually ignore.
- Open Lock: Ignore.
- Perform: Ignore.
- Profession: Ignore.
- Search: Max if going for trapfinding. Otherwise ignore.
- Sense Motive: 5 ranks for the synergy bonus.
- Sleight of Hand: If you don't care about people noticing you, get ranks until you can hit DC 20. Otherwise ignore.
- Spot: As per listen.
- Swim: Ignore.
- Tumble: Get ranks until you can hit DC 17 or 27. Remember Jump's synergy bonus.
- Use Magic Device: Get ranks until you can hit DC 20. Otherwise max.
- Use Rope: Ignore.
Put your rest skill points into the ignore skills you like best.
This gets you weapon focus(short sword), wisdom to AC in light armor, and some maneuvers.
For your stance, you want "Assassin's stance", which gives +2d6 sneak attack.
Then at level 6, you want the "Shadow blade" feat, which gives you your dex modifier to damage provided you are wielding shadow hand weapons (IE shortswords) and are in a shadowhand stance (IE Assassin's stance).
I happen to like...
Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 12/Invisible Blade 5
Using the Daring Outlaw feat from CSc, that gives you 11d6 with sneak attack on 7 or 8 attacks (with daggers) per round. The SA get's bumped up to 14d6 if you take Martial Study (Assassin's Stance) and a Rogue's Vest. You take the Penetrating strike ACF from Dungeonscape, and you'll do half sneak attacks when flanking even if the target is immune. You also get weapon finesse for free, and Int to both Damage and AC.
It's not as skillful as a typical skill-monkey, but it's all 4+ or higher. If you can get away with it, Nymph's kiss will give you an extra point per level.
With the right weapons/gear and umd, you have a LOT of options there, and can work as either the tank or glass-cannon in combat, as well as the corpse/swiss army knife/face outside of combat.
Generally, it's like this:
- Appraise: Ignore.
- Balance: 5 ranks.
- Bluff: 5 ranks or better if you use it for feinting/feat/ability, etc.
- Climb: Ignore.
- Craft: Alchemy is a nice one. Otherwise just spend 1 rank in those craft specialities you like. Generally ignore.
- Decipher Script: Ignore.
- Diplomacy: Max.
- Disable Device: Max if going for trapfinding. Otherwise ignore.
- Disguise: Ignore. If you need it, get a hat of disguise.
- Escape Artist: If your DM uses grapplers and your grapple check suffers (small size, bad strength modifier, etc) spending some ranks here to escape from a pinned condition is ok.
- Forgery: Ignore.
- Gather Information: Ignore.
- Hide: Max if snipping. Otherwise ignore.
- Intimidate: Max if going for demoralize. Otherwise ignore.
- Jump: 5 ranks for the synergy.
- Knowledge (Local): 5 ranks for the synergy.
- Listen: Spend some ranks here if you are the party scout.
- Move Silently: Usually ignore.
- Open Lock: Ignore.
- Perform: Ignore.
- Profession: Ignore.
- Search: Max if going for trapfinding. Otherwise ignore.
- Sense Motive: 5 ranks for the synergy bonus.
- Sleight of Hand: If you don't care about people noticing you, get ranks until you can hit DC 20. Otherwise ignore.
- Spot: As per listen.
- Swim: Ignore.
- Tumble: Get ranks until you can hit DC 17 or 27. Remember Jump's synergy bonus.
- Use Magic Device: Get ranks until you can hit DC 20. Otherwise max.
- Use Rope: Ignore.
Put your rest skill points into the ignore skills you like best.
There are a few of these that I'm confused as to why you'd ignore. Open lock seems like its relatively necessary as the only rogue/trap finding person in my party. Gather information seems important, if we're in town or whatever, and need to find out where the assasains guild is located, or something. Move silently seems useful, considering I'm going to be the party scout, but maybe not?
- Appraise: Ignore.
- Balance: 5 ranks.
- Bluff: 5 ranks or better if you use it for feinting/feat/ability, etc.
- Climb: Ignore.
- Craft: Alchemy is a nice one. Otherwise just spend 1 rank in those craft specialities you like. Generally ignore.... Craft poison is also very Nice
- Decipher Script: take at least 1 Rank, if you have no ranks you cant make the check
- Diplomacy: Max.
- Disable Device: Max if going for trapfinding. Otherwise ignore.
- Disguise: Ignore. If you need it, get a hat of disguise.
- Escape Artist: If your DM uses grapplers and your grapple check suffers (small size, bad strength modifier, etc) spending some ranks here to escape from a pinned condition is ok.
- Forgery: Ignore.
- Gather Information: can be useful depending on the Campaign
- Hide: Max ... if possible
- Intimidate: Max if going for demoralize. Otherwise ignore.
- Jump: 5 ranks for the synergy... 8 ranks for Skill tricks, possibly higher
- Knowledge (Local): 5 ranks for the synergy.
- Listen: Spend some ranks here if you are the party scout.
- Move Silently: Usually ignore.
- Open Lock: 5 ranks Min ... depending on the campaign ... get at least 10 ranks by 20th lvl
- Perform: Ignore..... depending on campaign
- Profession: 1 rank in Herbalist or Apothecary ... for flavor, also usful for setting up Alternate Identity, RP uses
- Search: Max Always
- Sense Motive: 5 ranks for the synergy bonus.
- Sleight of Hand: very useful ..... very powerful if you max it out, several feats boost the uses even more
- Spot: MAX ALWAYS
- Swim: Ignore.
- Tumble: Get ranks until you can hit DC 17 or 27. Remember Jump's synergy bonus.
- Use Magic Device: Get ranks until you can hit DC 20. Otherwise max.
- Use Rope: Ignore.
Put your rest skill points into Skill Tricks, or Cross Class Trained Only Skills... get at least 1 Rank in many Trained only skills
:D
as far as where you say until you can hit dc17 or dc27, do you mean you pass it every time? same with use magic device DC 20.
also, what are skill tricks
I cannot emphasize how much a crystal mask from the magic item compendium will help. Grants a +10 competency bonus to search, and there's one for sport as well as one for both. They're powerful and strictly legal. Search is incredibly important, particularly if your GM is like me and prefers to run trap dungeons and puzzles.
Open Locks, I feel is a pass, personally, particularly if it's a toss between it and trap-finding. Good traps can normally be thought-around if your GM is not a cruel man, particularly if he knows that no one has disable device.
Finally, sword sage is miraculously good, and we've left out the single best PrC for a skill monkey in the game..... Chameleon. I cannot tell you how amazing it is, and how good it is if you like trap-finding but do not wish to be a rogue.
Why sleight of hand, and what feats? and why maxing diplomacy.
Diplomacy is broken as written. With a DC 20 check, you can turn a hostile enemy to just unfriendly, which should make him much less likely to attack you. You can take a -10 penalty on your check to do this as a standard action. With higher checks, you can do crazy things, like turn enemies into friends, and friends into fanatics willing to sacrifice their lives for you. The broken thing is that there is no opposed check (unless they have their own diplomancer), it isn't defendant on how important the target is, or how many hit dice they have, etc. So this works just as well on a deity as it does Bob the peasant farmer.
Sleight of Hand... does not say it can't be used in combat, and even if you fail the check, you still get their item. Of course, expect many DMs to nerf the crap out of both this and Diplomacy. Definitely talk to your DM before trying any of these shenanigans.
as far as where you say until you can hit dc17 or dc27, do you mean you pass it every time? same with use magic device DC 20.
Yes. DC 20 UMD lets you use wands without failing. I'm not sure why Tumble is listed as 17 and 27, instead of 15 and 25 (the DCs for going past someone, and through someone). I'm sure I'm overlooking something that adds +2 to the DC frequently.
also, what are skill tricks
See Complete Scoundrel.
As for healing, healing is easy and less important than most people think. I recommend wand of lesser vigor, healing belts, and may I direct you to....
My friend is also having trouble with his character. We need a healer type character, but he is not a fan of healing in d&d, considering it is not very interactive compared to much of the other combat roles. Is it okay for a beginner party to only heal via a wand of cure mod. wounds? If so, that would be really cool.
Yes. Take a look at this.
There are a few of these that I'm confused as to why you'd ignore. Open lock seems like its relatively necessary as the only rogue/trap finding person in my party. Gather information seems important, if we're in town or whatever, and need to find out where the assasains guild is located, or something. Move silently seems useful, considering I'm going to be the party scout, but maybe not?
I'm not saying that the "ignore" skills aren't useful, it's just you can do just fine without them. For example you can substitute wands of invisibility for hide. The list above is the absolute base. After that, just go with the skills you like the most, like carnivore did.
Yes. DC 20 UMD lets you use wands without failing. I'm not sure why Tumble is listed as 17 and 27, instead of 15 and 25 (the DCs for going past someone, and through someone). I'm sure I'm overlooking something that adds +2 to the DC frequently.
Multiple enemies.
Why sleight of hand, and what feats? and why maxing diplomacy.
several Skill tricks require Sleight of Hand... also as PhaedrusXY explained... here is a very fun feat... from City of Stormreach:
Master Pickpocket[General] req:Dex 15, Sleight of hand 8 ranks
allows you to steal from adjacent as a Standard Action(even in Combat)..."you can take anything the character has on his or her person provided it is not held in hand."... if in a grapple with them gain +4 on the check, also can use Sleight of Hand as a Free Action @-10 instead of -20
also, what are skill tricks
Skill Tricks
Learning a Skill Trick costs 2 Skill Points. You may only have one Skill Trick per 2 Character levels (round up) (unless you take specific feats / prestige classes).
Unless indicate otherwise, a Skill Trick can only be used once per encounter.
look here for more info .... http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/skills/skilltricks.shtml
heres an example of two skill tricks:
Clever Improviser(CSco p085)Req: Disable Device: 5 ranks, Open Lock: 5 ranks
You can make Disable Device and/or Open Lock checks without Thieves’ Tools and not take the standard –2 penalty. If you fail one of these checks, you cannot use this ability again until you have rested 8 hours.
Opening Tap(CSco p088)req: Open Lock: 12 ranks
As a Swift Action, you may attempt an Open Lock check with a –10 penalty using something hard to knock open the lock. If you fail this check, you may not use this Trick again until you have rested for 8 hours.
very useful ...for a Rogue type character
:D