1 Evoker - Combat Casting, Improved Counterspell
2 Evoker
3 Evoker - Silent Spell
4 Evoker
5 Evoker - Fell Drain
6 Evoker - Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile)
6 Evoker/1 Force Missile Mage
6 Evoker/2 Force Missile Mage
6 Evoker/3 Force Missile Mage - Quicken Spell
6 Evoker/4 Force Missile Mage
6 Evoker/4 Force Missile Mage/1 Argent Savant
6 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/1 Argent Savant - Twin Spell
6 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/2 Argent Savant
6 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/3 Argent Savant
6 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/4 Argent Savant - Dragon Familiar (Gold Dragon)
6 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/5 Argent Savant
7 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/5 Argent Savant
8 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/5 Argent Savant - Repeat Spell
9 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/5 Argent Savant
10 Evoker/5 Force Missile Mage/5 Argent Savant - Innate Spell (Magic Missile)*
any suggestions?
* - my DM ruled that the FMM's Still Missile ability counts for the Still Spell prereq so long as i only stick with MM as my innate spell.
I sense a disturbance in the....force.... no fell drain?
what book is that in?
Use the focused specialist variant from the PHB 2, if everything is force evocation spells, why not get an extra one per day.
Edit: Arcane Thesis (also PHB 2).
perhaps incantratrix 10(Fearun CS) instead of argent savant, Cheaper meta-magics, and more of them, but you lose force specialization (I'm not sure how much that really matters).
What level are you starting? what level are you going to? what books are available? Any other relevant information about you're character/campaign?
L'Avantgarde Noire
This is a very good feat, and should certainly be included.
With Argent Savant + Greater Mage Armor - thats +10 armor bonus. Take that full plate. +6 from Shield to go with it.
So what spells are on this guy's spellbook? The Bigby's hand spells are obviously there. Mage armor/Greater mage armor of course, Shield, Wall of force.
You should definitely fit "Force Blade" onto your feat list. +1 CL on all force spells.
Are all the Metamagic Feats going to do you much good? The best force spells don't do damage, so what good is Empower and Maximize going to do you?
I am ignorant of the Force Missile mage - what kind of features does it bring to the table?
loses a caster level. eventually gets +2 missiles on magic missile (1 at 2nd 1 at 5th).
Allows you to shatter shields (well they don't stop your MMs, and gives you a CL options against brooch of shielding).
Stills Magic missiles. does some other things that I don't remember, and I don't have it on me.
5 level PRC.
loses a caster level. eventually gets +2 missiles on magic missile (1 at 2nd 1 at 5th).
Allows you to shatter shields (well they don't stop your MMs, and gives you a CL options against brooch of shielding).
Stills Magic missiles. does some other things that I don't remember, and I don't have it on me.
That would be Force Missile Mage, he's already taking it.
That would be Force Missile Mage, he's already taking it.
I think he was just explaining to treantmonk what the prc does ;)
I think he was just explaining to treantmonk what the prc does ;)
Indeed. I should have quoted, Sorry.
Indeed. I should have quoted, Sorry.
I'm too tired to think, quote next time. :P
paragnostic apostle looks interesting, ill see if i can work that in tomorrow when im actually awake.
incantrix might be out of play as it might not be in faerun, but ill have to check on that. it makes me an abjurur, which im not too fond on. i also dont like how many levels it requires until the metamagic reduction comes in. not sure if id be able to fit it in. i can drop a few levels from argent savant since the upper levels of it are less impressive than the early ones. im definitely keeping all 5 of force missile mage though, as its an integral part of the character.
i will definitely take arcane thesis and fell drain instead of empower and maximize... and instead grab a lesser maximize rod.
we will be starting at level 9 or 10, and be going until the DM essentially gets sick of it. all books are allowed except for books that are in different realms from where we will be (which hasnt been set in stone just yet).
Do not take Abjurant Champion. While the class is win++ for gishes, its benefits to normal casters are close to non-existant. Ability to cast quickened shield isn't worth it.
+1, especially while FMM gives you a 1/day immediate action shield spell.
it makes me an abjurer, which i'm not too fond on.
Incantratrix doesn't require you to be an abjurer, just not prohibit Abjuration. If you can take it I would suggest that you do
.I've build something exactly like this once, except mine actually was a sorcerer. Dragonwrought kobolt with force dragon heritage, at that. Draconic power then gets you +1 CL and DC on all [Force] spells, which beats taking a force reserve feat just for the CL, but stacks with it anyway.
Sorcerers get some nice extra force spells (wings of flurry ftw), and if you're going to restrict your spellbook to [Force] spells anyway, sorcerer isn't much of a loss. Both can cast from scrolls.
If you're going for Magic Missile optimisation, don't drop Empower. It's much better than maximise. And filling off those last 5 levels with War Mage (the prc from Age of Mortals) wouldn't hurt, either.
How well would a build like this work with Spellwarp Sniper, for those of us who are denied Dragon material (and thus don't have access to FMM)?
Magic Missile doesn't require an attack roll and thus makes spellwarp sniper useless.
the prereqs for FMM are negligable.. combat casting, ability to cast magic missile and 9 ranks in a couple of skills.
i considered sorcerer, but i already have a character history for this guy and it just wouldnt make sense. besides, a sorcerer cant put sepia snake sigils in random places in his spellbook for pesky thieves who try to read it.
Sure he can, just because he doesn't USE his spellbook doesn't mean he can't have one.
How well would a build like this work with Spellwarp Sniper, for those of us who are denied Dragon material (and thus don't have access to FMM)?
Not as awesomely; SS affects rays in some rather moderate ways, rather than boosting a single spell quite strongly.
Still, if you could pick a single ray (or area spell shaped into a ray by your class feature) spell with the [force] descriptor as your build's core, it wouldn't be awful. In fact, rayshape the aforementioned wings of flurry. It'd be like orb of force, except split-ray-able, uncapped, and automatically dazing for a turn on a hit (since rayshape eliminates reflex saves).
A 4th level spell might be a bit of a high starter for an arcane thesis build, but if you stick with split ray and empower for your metamagic, you could make it quite potent quite cheaply.
Actually, scrap 'not so awesomely'. This works quite well.
Just FYI: Chain Missile lvl 3 and Force Missiles lvl 4
Where's rayshape?
I think he was referring to the Spellwarp ability of the spellwarp sniper prestige class from Complete Scoundrel.
Not insanely powerful, but if you can get an ability that lets you maintain concentration you could unleash spells while holding up a manyjaws spell. That could provide a source of constant force damage while you're casting away.
consider: assuming arcane thesis only, i can cast a quickened-twinned magic missile as a 7th level spell, and applying a maximize metamagic rod to the spell i can do an instant 84 damage, no save. then, i can cast a twinned-fell drain magic missile, again applying the metamagic rod, for another 84 damage AND a negative level, again with no save. thats 168 damage + a negative level in a single round. if the monster has a weakness, FMM allows me to spontaneously declare that my missiles either deal fire, cold, or acid damage, so it could potentially deal 252 damage + a negative level. not bad for a first level spell, eh?
not bad for a first level spell, eh?
Not bad for a first level spell.....my only quibble being that it's no longer a first level spell if it's twinned, maximized, fell drained, and quickened :p
Consider the aforementioned Spellwarped Wings of Flurry....
Generic not well thought out build:
Spellscale
Spellthief 1/Sorceror 4/Unseen Seer 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Abjurant Champion 5
Rapid Metamagic, Arcane Thesis, etc.
Rod of maximize, twinned and empowered, and let's say we start off with a quickened hunter's strike.
Our CL will be 22 (easily, it could go higher)...Meaning a maximized 66d6 for 396 force damage, and then if we proc our sneak attack we can tack on another 12d6 (I'm not sure if this gets maximized as part of the spell or not, but the average damage is 42.)
Result = 438 first round damage....and the target is dazed, meaning you get to go again before they do! Not revolutionary, but quite effective without invoking a whole lot of cheddar.
The best part is, if it's only one creature, you don't even have to apply all of the metamagic to the spell to daze-lock them, since they get no save. You could also use residual metamagic to get the most bang for your buck on successive rounds.
I think R4za is on to something fun!
1: Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Floating Disk, Shield, *Persistent Blade
2: *Battering Ram, *Blast of Force, *Ethereal Chamber, *Force Ladder, *Slapping Hand
3: Tiny Hut, Sepia Snake Sigil, Explosive Runes, *Chain Missile, *Greater Mage Armor, *Mass Mage Armor, *Manyjaws
4: Resilient Sphere, *Greater Floating Disk, *Force Chest, *Force Claw, *Force Missiles, *Forceward, *Forceweave, *Orb of Force, *Sword of Deception, *Thunderlance, *Vortex of Teeth, *Wingbird
5: Wall of Force, Interposing Hand, *Death Throes, *Shard Storm
6: Forceful Hand, *Howling Chain
7: Forcecage, Grasping Hand, Mage’s Sword
8: Telekinetic Sphere, Clenched Fist
9: Crushing Hand
There is also 1 spell, Spell Engine, that can be cast by Wizards but not Sorcerers.
Magic Missile doesn't require an attack roll and thus makes spellwarp sniper useless.
Spellwarp Sniper is useless anyway.
Arcane Reach does it better. So do the Orb line of Conjuration spells.
-----Complete Mage----------
2: Luminous Swarm
3: Repelling Shield
9: Lash of Force <== big fan of this one
-----Dragon Magic-------------
7: Justice of the Wyrm King
4: Orb of Force
Also, there are some spells that create a force effect, but don't actually have the force descriptor...
2: Force Whip
5: Sword of deception
From complete mage that mitten missed:
5: Coat of Arms
From Champions of Valor:
3: Stars of Arvandar
From Champions of Ruin:
2: Scourge of Force
From BoVD:
9: Crushing Fist of Spite
From Races of the Dragon, note that as was mentioned, they are sorc only
1: Ghostly Tail, Wings of Bounding, Wings of Swift Flight
2: Tail Slap, Wings of Cover
4: Tail Sweep, Wings of Flurry
5: Crack Ice
Also, going back over Complete Arcane
4: Orb of Force
Also, there are some spells that create a force effect, but don't actually have the force descriptor...
2: Force Whip
5: Sword of deception
Ooo I did miss one. Good catch.
On the other hand, all the ones from Comp Arcane have been reprinted in the Spell compendium. Orb of Force and Sword of Deception (which now has the force descriptor) remain intact but Force Whip now is Sonic Whip (a sonic effect).
Paragnostic Apostle would be another good choice for the character (has it been mentioned?)
Keep in mind, this guy will be fighting alongside another (likely divine) caster, a Wilder, three beatsticks, a gatling-gun archer, and a rogue.
I'm dealing with a group of nine, five of which are optimizers, so I'd prefer he be scary effective.
Currently his build is:
Human Sorceror (Metamagic Specialist) 6/Force Missile Mage 5/Incantatrix 4
I keep selecting feats and keep coming up with what feels like a big ball of suck, so a few suggestions would be nice. Flaws are allowed, as well as any books I can get my paws on, which is pretty much all of them.
I have a force-heavy spell list prepared already.
Thank you.
Edit: I ask for help but don't actually say what I want help with. Feat suggestion. I need help choosing feats. If absolutely necessary, I can change the build, but I'd prefer to know the feats necessary to make it work.
if youre willing to deal with the full round lameness for metamagics, id say fell drain and twin will be your best combo. maybe even take arcane preparation so that you can also apply quicken (although im not sure if you can actually do that).
There is a feat in either Complete Mage or Complete Arcane (I think it's mage), that allows you to cast spontaneous metamagicked spells normally. Also, there is an alternate sorceror in PHB2 I believe, that allows you to give up your familiar class benefit to have access to spontaneously casting metamagicked spells for 3 uses+Int Mod/day.
Metamagic Specialist from PHBII lets you cast metamagic-ed spells at normal casting time as often as you'd like, in exchange for your familiar.
Thanks to all parties involved.
Acid Sheathe adds +1/die to all acid spells.
Easy Metamagic (Empower) combined with Arcane Thesis would let you cast Empowered MM for no level adjustment.
The big benefit of the Abjurant Champion is the +5 AC to Shield spells, which would stack with Argent Savant's +2 bonus. Greater mage Armor for +8 (+13 if your DM lets AC affect Mage Armor) and +11 AC from Shield is pretty nice, yes? ANd it comes with full BAB and caster level, I believe.
Note that if you have any feats with a Level Mod of +1 or less, they get on the Arcane Thesis train for free. Like, say, Still and Silent.
BTW, Argent Savant increases the damage diceof FOrce spells to the next size up, so MM are doing 2-7, force orbs d6/level, and other force spells receive a similar kick.
===Aelryinth
Note that if you have any feats with a Level Mod of +1 or less, they get on the Arcane Thesis train for free. Like, say, Still and Silent.
force missile mage gets still missile for free, *always*. abjurant champion is good if you can afford the prereqs, but the forceror concept is pretty tight on feats. definitely grab the argent savant and paragnostic apostle dips though, as youll easily meet the prereqs for these. having mage armor + shield increase your AC to phenomenal numbers is quite helpful - especially since you are doomed from the start to roll 1s and 2s on all your will saves.
the game i played with this guy only lasted 2 sessions, and in those sessions i had to make 2 will saves - 1 vs a confusion spell and 1 vs a cranium rat swarm's mind blast power. BOTH of them were pathetically easy compared to my will save and BOTH of them failed. while confused i rolled an act normally and tried to use a scroll of greater dispel on myself, and THAT failed too!