Being Chaotic Evil as well as another alingment - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Being Chaotic Evil as well as another alingment

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
phoenix00
Jun 28, 2008 13:14:59 Wasn't there a feat/class feature that allowed you be another alingment while at the same time be treated as chaotic evil for the purpose of pre-requisites?
#2
CantripN
Jun 28, 2008 13:20:49 You could have the [Evil] and [Chaos] subtypes...
#3
avanter4
Jun 28, 2008 13:21:51 The Hellbred from FC 2 are a race that can use evil equipment without restriction.
#4
phoenix00
Jun 28, 2008 13:35:10 Don't think either tricks will work for what I am attempting to do. I am attempting to use two different prcs. One requires Chaotic Evil alignment, the other requires Non Evil alignment.

Thus I have to be a Non Evil yet treated as Chaotic Evil for certain effects.

I do remember reading somewhere how this is possible, its been years though...
#5
jondera
Jun 28, 2008 13:42:13 As CantripN mentioned...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#chaoticSubtype

(scroll down a little bit for the "Evil" subtype)
#6
phoenix00
Jun 28, 2008 13:44:22
As CantripN mentioned...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#chaoticSubtype

(scroll down a little bit for the "Evil" subtype)

I understand it will work for the Chaotic Evil part.

But wouldn't it also disqualify the Non Evil part at the same time? If it said LG,NG,CG, LN,N,CN then it would be a different story.
#7
cycada
Jun 28, 2008 13:54:34 It depends, does the class say it needs to be like...LG or something, or does it specifically say nonevil?
#8
phoenix00
Jun 28, 2008 14:12:03 one says nonevil
the other says chaotic evil
#9
CantripN
Jun 28, 2008 14:16:07 You count as both your real alignment AND the subtypes. So you can be a Lawful, Good, Chaotic and Evil for any effect, if you're a Paladin with [Evil] and [Chaos].
#10
cycada
Jun 28, 2008 14:27:00 Cantrip, that's why the subtype thing won't work. The class says nonevil as a requirement, this means that any creature with the evil subtype, no matter what their actual alignment, always counts as an evil creature, invalidating them from taking the class.
#11
CantripN
Jun 28, 2008 14:38:29 And yet, at the same time, he also counts as a "non-evil" being, because he isn't, really. It doesn't say "Evil" aren't allowed, but rather that "Non-Evil" are.
#12
cycada
Jun 28, 2008 14:48:06 Well, if we look at what non-evil means, it means "the state of not being evil" As the evil subtype always makes you count as evil, you are always in a state of being evil. This contradicts with the meaning of the above.

Technically, if you were a Devil Paladin, you would be a Chaotic Lawful Evil Good creature.
#13
jondera
Jun 28, 2008 15:20:51 D&D has fuzzy rules in that respect. Basically, you only count the alignment that you want to - most people only have one alignment, so it doesn't matter.

In the case of a lawful Good paladin with the Chaos and Evil subtypes, you are perfectly capable of taking a feat or PrC that requires non-evil, non-chaotic, non-good, or non-lawful... or any of the above. heck, you could even take something that requires Chaotic Good (since you count as both chaotic and good).

The fact that you have the evil subtype doesn't disqualify you from taking things with a requirement of "Non-evil," as long as you have an actual alignment that isn't evil. Likewise, just because your actual alignment isn't evil, the evil subtype allows you to be affected by things that only affect evil beings.

usually, this is the worst of both worlds - because you're not safe from anybody's spells. It would rather suck to be a paladin that was affected by Holy Word.
#14
dralnu
Jun 28, 2008 18:28:09 Ordered Chaos from FC:I allows you to count as chaotic while not being chaotic, but I don't know of anything like that for evil alignment.
#15
sinfire_titan
Jun 28, 2008 21:56:17
Ordered Chaos from FC:I allows you to count as chaotic while not being chaotic, but I don't know of anything like that for evil alignment.

This is the answer. Ordered Chaos+Hellbred. You count as Good, Evil, Lawful, and Chaotic for the effects of spells and items (not sure about feats though). It works out to be really crazy. Get VoP and a Lawful Aura, and you will confuse people with Detect X spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 phoenix00 Jun 28, 2008 13:14:59	Wasn't there a feat/class feature that allowed you be another alingment while at the same time be treated as chaotic evil for the purpose of pre-requisites?
#2 CantripN Jun 28, 2008 13:20:49	You could have the [Evil] and [Chaos] subtypes...
#3 avanter4 Jun 28, 2008 13:21:51	The Hellbred from FC 2 are a race that can use evil equipment without restriction.
#4 phoenix00 Jun 28, 2008 13:35:10	Don't think either tricks will work for what I am attempting to do. I am attempting to use two different prcs. One requires Chaotic Evil alignment, the other requires Non Evil alignment. Thus I have to be a Non Evil yet treated as Chaotic Evil for certain effects. I do remember reading somewhere how this is possible, its been years though...
#5 jondera Jun 28, 2008 13:42:13	As CantripN mentioned... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#chaoticSubtype (scroll down a little bit for the "Evil" subtype)
#6 phoenix00 Jun 28, 2008 13:44:22	As CantripN mentioned... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#chaoticSubtype (scroll down a little bit for the "Evil" subtype) I understand it will work for the Chaotic Evil part. But wouldn't it also disqualify the Non Evil part at the same time? If it said LG,NG,CG, LN,N,CN then it would be a different story.
#7 cycada Jun 28, 2008 13:54:34	It depends, does the class say it needs to be like...LG or something, or does it specifically say nonevil?
#8 phoenix00 Jun 28, 2008 14:12:03	one says nonevil the other says chaotic evil
#9 CantripN Jun 28, 2008 14:16:07	You count as both your real alignment AND the subtypes. So you can be a Lawful, Good, Chaotic and Evil for any effect, if you're a Paladin with [Evil] and [Chaos].
#10 cycada Jun 28, 2008 14:27:00	Cantrip, that's why the subtype thing won't work. The class says nonevil as a requirement, this means that any creature with the evil subtype, no matter what their actual alignment, always counts as an evil creature, invalidating them from taking the class.
#11 CantripN Jun 28, 2008 14:38:29	And yet, at the same time, he also counts as a "non-evil" being, because he isn't, really. It doesn't say "Evil" aren't allowed, but rather that "Non-Evil" are.
#12 cycada Jun 28, 2008 14:48:06	Well, if we look at what non-evil means, it means "the state of not being evil" As the evil subtype always makes you count as evil, you are always in a state of being evil. This contradicts with the meaning of the above. Technically, if you were a Devil Paladin, you would be a Chaotic Lawful Evil Good creature.
#13 jondera Jun 28, 2008 15:20:51	D&D has fuzzy rules in that respect. Basically, you only count the alignment that you want to - most people only have one alignment, so it doesn't matter. In the case of a lawful Good paladin with the Chaos and Evil subtypes, you are perfectly capable of taking a feat or PrC that requires non-evil, non-chaotic, non-good, or non-lawful... or any of the above. heck, you could even take something that requires Chaotic Good (since you count as both chaotic and good). The fact that you have the evil subtype doesn't disqualify you from taking things with a requirement of "Non-evil," as long as you have an actual alignment that isn't evil. Likewise, just because your actual alignment isn't evil, the evil subtype allows you to be affected by things that only affect evil beings. usually, this is the worst of both worlds - because you're not safe from anybody's spells. It would rather suck to be a paladin that was affected by Holy Word.
#14 dralnu Jun 28, 2008 18:28:09	Ordered Chaos from FC:I allows you to count as chaotic while not being chaotic, but I don't know of anything like that for evil alignment.
#15 sinfire_titan Jun 28, 2008 21:56:17	Ordered Chaos from FC:I allows you to count as chaotic while not being chaotic, but I don't know of anything like that for evil alignment. This is the answer. Ordered Chaos+Hellbred. You count as Good, Evil, Lawful, and Chaotic for the effects of spells and items (not sure about feats though). It works out to be really crazy. Get VoP and a Lawful Aura, and you will confuse people with Detect X spells.