Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 felduir Dec 09, 2011 19:00:02	I am just about to start a game of 3.5 D&D after more than a year of not playing. My DM has wrote quite a bit of material and says it is very difficult, hence to very high point buy. Now I don't want to break the game (obviously possible) but I do want to be generally useful and have great powers to survive. I was originally thinging of playing a psion with shapeshifting later, but then i heard of the high stats and wanted to play something that took advantage of that. Was thinking of a Monk or something... So main question: what is good at surviving, deals decent damage and benifits largly from extremly high starting stats. The race must be core and I am starting at level 1. Oh, and I played a very cross classed rogue last game and ended up with absurd amounts of SA and ended up facing large amounts of golems and NPCs with uncanny dodge... though to be fair I did take anything else out extremly quickly.
#2 deoxhydroxinate Dec 09, 2011 19:06:29	My question would be, what style of play would you really be comfortable with? With 40 points available to spend, you're really not going to be confronted with MAD.   Do you prefer casting? Utility? Damage output?  Also, what sources do you have available for feats, classes, and PrCs? I couldn't really suggest any class or build without knowing what you would have access to or what you would prefer to bring to the table.
#3 felduir Dec 09, 2011 19:45:00	I have access to lots of stuff, just not dragon magazines and campaign specific stuff. Also I don't want to min max quite as hard as last time... I enjoy playing most characters so long as they are not 1-trick ponies. So no trip fighters, barbarians etc. Great utility and moderate damage are the keys here, whether that comes from spellcasting or hitting people with a big stick doesn't really bother me so long as I can get around obstacles and do interesting things. Monk, Binder and Dread Necromancer are so far what I'm looking at, but I's still not convinced. Throw some ideas out there!
#4 draco1119 Dec 09, 2011 21:40:39	Bard or cleric.  Especially cleric.  You'll be able to get the high Wis for spells, Cha for turns/turn attempts (for powering Divine MM, obv), Str & Con for combat, Int for skills...
#5 deoxhydroxinate Dec 10, 2011 2:41:43	Binder is an excellent choice.  I also really enjoy the Factotum and Warlock - both could be made really nice with the available points.  Both are very versatile and fun to play.   You could do Factotum any number of ways too - skills into Chameleon, Warblade into Eternal Blade.  Warlock has a quite a few interesting paths as well (Hellfire Warlock gets too much mention I think) and the essences that can be learned can be very nice.
#6 felduir Dec 10, 2011 13:40:03	Factorum seems really neat. Would it be a good idea to just keep getting that feat that gives more insperation points? What book is Chameleon from?  Abusing Persist spells also seems interesting though I just know I'm going to be hit by Dispel Magic a ton as soon as my DM figures out whats going on.
#7 Tempest_Stormwind Dec 10, 2011 15:14:57	Factorum seems really neat. Would it be a good idea to just keep getting that feat that gives more insperation points? It's difficult to pull that off since it has an ever-increasing Intelligence requirement, but it is possible if you're willing to tap into Intelligence-bonus races at older age categories.   What book is Chameleon from? Races of Destiny, but previewed here.  Abusing Persist spells also seems interesting though I just know I'm going to be hit by Dispel Magic a ton as soon as my DM figures out whats going on.  The best persisters have a way around that - persistent spells only check your caster level at the time they're cast. Therefore, things like the ankh of ascension (MIC; remember that metamagic other than Heighten doesn't change the spell level and that pearls of power exist) or karma prayer beads (DMG, on the strand of prayer beads) can be triggered when you start your buff cycle, and the increased caster level applies to those buffs for the entire day. This not only dramatically improves their effects (if you have both of them at, say, level 10 (I think it's possible but I'd have to check), you can have a +18 base attack bonus from Divine Power before your fighters get their third attack), but it also makes them much more difficult to dispel.
#8 felduir Dec 11, 2011 10:53:12	Factorums get the insperation points per encounter?! Crazy I thought it was once per day. Whats a good way to get some damage from a mid level factorum without multiclassing? Not too many options? Maybe just use wands to buff...
#9 aelryinth Dec 11, 2011 10:56:08	The key behind high Point roll buys is to play classes that really benefit from high stats. The monk is the poster child for this. Monks can get amazing when you have really high str, dex, and Wis combined. Not having to dump one of these stats makes for a really strong character. There's a Factotum handbook around somewhere that shows how to lovingly abuse the class. ===Aelryinth
#10 deoxhydroxinate Dec 11, 2011 13:26:10	Factotums can do a bunch of things, but one main ingredient is their Cunning Surge.  Be sure to check that out.   The Factotum Handbook, as Aelryinth mentioned, should answer a lot of your questions regarding the class and its options.
#11 felduir Dec 11, 2011 19:05:42	Yeah, I found the handbook... torn between a monk or a factotum. I saw the feat somewhere that gives you extra insperation points, but i can't remember where it was. I didn't see the ever increasing prereq and was wondering where it was. Thanks for the ideas guys!
#12 Tempest_Stormwind Dec 11, 2011 20:29:31	Yeah, I found the handbook... torn between a monk or a factotum. That's like being torn between a cold sore and a Harley, no offense intended. Even the best handbook we've got on the monk concurs the class is, at most, 6 levels long, and that's based on the class' abilities. The weakness in the monk that arises from MAD is mitigated somewhat by an obscene point buy, but the weakness in the abilities and lack of synergy certainly isn't going to be changed by a pair of 18s.  I saw the feat somewhere that gives you extra insperation points, but i can't remember where it was. I didn't see the ever increasing prereq and was wondering where it was. Thanks for the ideas guys! Font of Inspiration is here. Functionally, the factotum is almost single-ability-dependent on Intelligence, but the other abilities certainly don't hurt.
#13 felduir Dec 11, 2011 22:00:29	None taken, I just like the idea that a monk can survive lots of stuff. But after some thought I'm not going to play a monk since I don't contribute to one of the things a party needs. For some unknown reason my DM has restricted us to single class characters... not even prestige classes... Now in this world obviously wizards and psions are going to be the most powerful. Which makes me almost want to go back to psion. It now really comes down to what everyone else is playing... What are your thoughts on Dread Necromancer? I have read the handbook and I like the idea of free healing and tankage with spells on top but I haven't looked at the book yet. EDIT: I totally read that feat but ommitted the last line. Silly...
#14 draco1119 Dec 11, 2011 22:25:23	For some unknown reason my DM has restricted us to single class characters... not even prestige classes... Now in this world obviously wizards and psions are going to be the most powerful. Which makes me almost want to go back to psion. It now really comes down to what everyone else is playing... As a single class, you could do worse than a grapple-focused Psychic Warrior.
#15 felduir Dec 11, 2011 22:30:36	Oh, trust me that's a bad idea. I imagine we are going to be fighting giant undead in no time at all. Though normally I would like that sort of character.
#16 ZhonLord Dec 11, 2011 23:19:32	Well, this is entirely your call at this point.  A pure Factotum is still a badass in and of itself, and the Dread Necromancer shines in its own ways as well - although starting at level 1 will hurt it a bit. Still, powerful necromancy magic, never running out of health unless in the middle of a fight, a good number of spells per day... You could certainly go worse than DN, especially since the point buy allows you to max Charisma while still giving yourself enough Dex and Str to cope with your low attack bonus on the enemy Touch AC's. Not much I can say to add to what the others have said above, but I will point out that the idea of a Dread Necromancer wielding a scythe gives a very Grim Reaper-esque feel to the character.  At this point, it's all about your playstyle.  Look over both classes, see which one fits you better and/or seems like it's more fun for you to play.  We can help you a lot more after you've chosen a base class.
#17 felduir Dec 11, 2011 23:54:18	All this input is great! I'm changing my mind constanty though I really like the idea of playing a DN with a scythe. Aweosme idea. It's gonna come down to what everyone else wants to play.
#18 felduir Dec 12, 2011 0:36:29	Right, got o the interesting parts of the factotum handbook's thread. On page 35... Playing a Factotum unless my party really needs me to tank in which case I will play a DN.
#19 Tempest_Stormwind Dec 12, 2011 13:26:13	Right, got o the interesting parts of the factotum handbook's thread. On page 35... Playing a Factotum unless my party really needs me to tank in which case I will play a DN. There's also the BG handbook, which might be more up to date.