Best Cleric/Sorcerer? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Best Cleric/Sorcerer?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
magicdealer
May 19, 2009 10:15:01 I know there are several builds that provide 9th level druid and arcane spells. Is it possible to do it with Cleric/Sorc or Cleric/Wizard? This is what I've managed so far.

Elf with two flaws from Unearthed Arcana.
1 Sorc1 Feats: Precocious Apprentice, possibly Dynamic Priest or Academic Priest.
2 Cleric1
3 Cleric2 Feats: Alternative Spell Source
4-14 Mystic Theurge Feats: Spell Focus Necromancy
15-20 True Necromancer

This build caps with 9th level cleric spells and 8th level sorc spells. Precocious Apprentice provides access to a second level spell. Divine heritage fulfills the divine component of Alternative spell source, making your second level spell either arcane or divine. Once you get your 6th skill rank for Mystic Theurge requirements, you head on in.

True Necromancer provides progression to both, though it's not the greatest since it's not pure progresson. I just picked Sorc since I wasn't going to make the cap with wizard anyways for 9th level spells. Figured I'd take more 8th level spells/day instead.

The purpose here is to use cleric as the divine component in an arcane/divine dual caster build, and to get 9th level spells in both, if possible, without using items to meet requirements. Or wish, for that matter.

Improvements, anyone?

--edited based on replies--
#2
emy
May 19, 2009 10:57:03 What's Divine Heritage?

Just use Wizard instead of Sorcerer, honestly.

Academic Priest (for a wiz/cleric) or Dynamic Priest (for a sorc/cleric) can reduce MAD. (These feats are from Dragonlance: Legends of the Twins)
#3
magicdealer
May 19, 2009 12:54:48 Divine Heritage gives some free divine cantrips. It's used in the build to meet the prerequisites for Alternative Source Spell... though if I pick up Alternative Source Spell at 3rd level, I can bypass it entirely :/
But either way, I get 17 Divine Caster Progression and only 16 Arcane Caster Progression.
#4
emy
May 19, 2009 13:26:44 Well, as long as you're using Alternate Source Spell/Precocious Apprentice trickery, what about

Wizard 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 2/Ultimate Magus 10/Mystic Theurge +5

Wizard 17 casting, cleric 17 casting

Sure, counting Cleric as a spontaneous arcane spellcaster is a bit iffy, but they can spontaneously cast spells (inflict/cure) and they can cast arcane spells, thanks to A.S.S.

though, if you're not too stuck on cleric/wizard or cleric/sorcerer, you could do cool things like wizard/archivist (count wizard as the spontaneous one, w/ Spontaneous Divination)
#5
magicdealer
May 19, 2009 13:42:45 Unfortunately, the wording for Ultimate Magus specifies arcane spellcasting classes, where with this build you have a divine spellcasting class who just happens to be able to prepare some arcane spells in those slots.

While the archivist is interesting, I still like the cleric better :D
#6
kell_kheraptis
May 19, 2009 14:18:55 What campaign setting are you in? In FR, using Ur-Priest is relatively easy, considering the number of dead gods, a few of them good aligned.

Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF at 5th)/Rogue 2/Ur-Priest 1/Focluchan Lyrist 9/Unseen Seer 3

Gives minor sneak attack, access to major sneak attack with Hunter's Eye, all the divine buff goodness, on-the-fly information gathering via WizNet Version 5.0 (the ACF), 9th level spells in each, trapfinding, evasion, bardic knowledge (or knack, if that's your thing), bardic music as a level 9 bard, and SAD with the aforementioned Dragonlance feat. There's nothing saying you couldn't write it all in either, as upon leaving Krynn, who's to say you weren't enamored by the dogma of Waukeen, only to realize you'd have to rip the power from another god. Only real downside is a little low on the hp, but any caster worth his salt can mitigate that, let alone a dual caster.
#7
magicdealer
May 19, 2009 14:26:45 :p Whole point was to not go Ur-priest, or druid, but rather to do the best possible with cleric.
#8
kell_kheraptis
May 19, 2009 14:47:24
:p Whole point was to not go Ur-priest, or druid, but rather to do the best possible with cleric.

Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Rogue 2/Focluchan Lyrist 10 perhaps then? Use the early entry tricks from before on both classes, gains most of the same, adds DMM possibility, has decent BAB (15.75 if fractional is used, 16 if you can use the Crusader variant from Dragon, which I believe makes the Cleric a good BAB class) that is obviously subsumed by Divine Power, 9th/9th casting with relative racial freedom (Ilumian is good for basing it all off one stat...like say Cha for Turning synergy, since you can always polymorph into some big arse creature). Otherworldly feat would give all martial weapons and access to some awesome forms, persistent Foresight means not worrying about annoying things like sneak attacks, or even better, Elemental Body means not worrying about any of it :P Nice part is that it only really has a couple slowdowns. 3rd level you'll only be one level behind the party wizard or cleric, while matching them otherwise, 9th-10th you're adding no spellcasting, though I'm sure someone knows of a better filler there, and from there, FL is like that girl you know you shouldn't get with, but is too good to pass up (G version of the original quote).
#9
pyro_azer
May 19, 2009 14:49:11
Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF at 5th)/Rogue 2/Ur-Priest 1/Focluchan Lyrist 9/Unseen Seer 3

Where are you getting the bardic knowledge or speaking druidic that you need to be a Fochlucan Lyrist?
#10
kell_kheraptis
May 19, 2009 15:14:32
Where are you getting the bardic knowledge or speaking druidic that you need to be a Fochlucan Lyrist?

We won't talk about the language issue, as it seems to be a matter of contention here, but I'd forgotten about that bloody Bardic Knowledge requirement...give me a few minutes, gotta go pick up my kid
#11
carnivore
May 19, 2009 15:26:18
:D
#12
magicdealer
May 20, 2009 1:09:18 Mmm... very nice take on the build. I remember looking at Yathrinshee, then passing over it. Though I think I'll keep my previous entry method So as to get in a level earlier, and because I don't want to be no spontaneous cleric caster :D

Race: Lesser Drow
Two Flaws for extra feats...

1 Sorc1 Feats: Precocious Apprentice, Extend Spell, Zen Archery
2 Cleric1
3 Cleric2 Feats: Alternative Spell Source
4 Mystic Theurge
5 Mystic Theurge
6 Mystic Theurge Arcane Strike
7 Mystic Theurge
8 Mystic Theurge
9 Mystic Theurge Lichloved
10 Mystic Theurge
11 Mystic Theurge
12 Mystic Theurge Spell Focus Necromancy
13 Mystic Theurge
14 Yathrinshee
15 Yathrinshee Persistant Spell
16 Yathrinshee
17 Yathrinshee
18 Yathrinshee Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)
19 Yathrinshee
20 Loremaster, for Practiced Spellcaster (Sorc) or Geometer perhaps.
#13
magicdealer
May 20, 2009 15:26:45 Hmm... upon further reflection, it appears that this build actually stops at 8th level spells for both cleric and sorc.

2cleric/2sorc/10mystic theurge/6Yathrinshee

the Yathrinshee class only provides 4 levels of spellcasting progression.
2 for cleric/sorc, 10 mystic theurge, and 4 Yathrinshee for a total of 16 each.

*sigh*
#14
rebel7284
May 20, 2009 15:53:41 Dragonwraught Venerable X Kobold (Where X is whichever variant gives -2 int instead of -2 Con) using Loredrake and Greater Rite of Passage.

Sorcerer 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 3/Holt Warden 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 1

Feats: Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell, Endurance
Casts like a level 18 Sorcerer and Level 19 Cleric.
#15
carnivore
May 21, 2009 4:23:34
the Yathrinshee class only provides 4 levels of spellcasting progression.
2 for cleric/sorc, 10 mystic theurge, and 4 Yathrinshee for a total of 16 each.

*sigh*

no this is incorrect.... IIRC, Yathrinshee is a 10 level PrC that Advances Both Arcane and Divine casting at every level similar to Mystic theurge, but with more Reqs

thus it has the stats as i posted .... i dont have access to the book(Players Guide to Faerun) anymore, if it is different, please post the correct PrC stats

:D
#16
ashyl
May 21, 2009 4:57:37
no this is incorrect.... IIRC, Yathrinshee is a 10 level PrC that Advances Both Arcane and Divine casting at every level similar to Mystic theurge, but with more Reqs

thus it has the stats as i posted .... i dont have access to the book(Players Guide to Faerun) anymore, if it is different, please post the correct PrC stats

:D

Either it has been erata'ed, or you are refering to a previous printing of it, cause the one I see printed in my Guide to Faerun progresses 6 levels of spellcasting (losses at 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th)...

So your build would end up with 16 CL for both classes.

Just remove 3 levels of Yathrinshee or find a way to get earlyer access to MT. Or replace C-Cleric with Ur priest ^^ (could the last work?).
#17
carnivore
May 21, 2009 5:03:03 opps...my bad.... i was doing that from memory, and didnt have the book in front of me

back to the drawing board for another idea
:D
#18
magicdealer
May 22, 2009 10:09:26 Rebel, thats.... beautiful. Kobolds remain the most powerful race ever.

/joy

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 magicdealer May 19, 2009 10:15:01	I know there are several builds that provide 9th level druid and arcane spells. Is it possible to do it with Cleric/Sorc or Cleric/Wizard? This is what I've managed so far. Elf with two flaws from Unearthed Arcana. 1 Sorc1 Feats: Precocious Apprentice, possibly Dynamic Priest or Academic Priest. 2 Cleric1 3 Cleric2 Feats: Alternative Spell Source 4-14 Mystic Theurge Feats: Spell Focus Necromancy 15-20 True Necromancer This build caps with 9th level cleric spells and 8th level sorc spells. Precocious Apprentice provides access to a second level spell. Divine heritage fulfills the divine component of Alternative spell source, making your second level spell either arcane or divine. Once you get your 6th skill rank for Mystic Theurge requirements, you head on in. True Necromancer provides progression to both, though it's not the greatest since it's not pure progresson. I just picked Sorc since I wasn't going to make the cap with wizard anyways for 9th level spells. Figured I'd take more 8th level spells/day instead. The purpose here is to use cleric as the divine component in an arcane/divine dual caster build, and to get 9th level spells in both, if possible, without using items to meet requirements. Or wish, for that matter. Improvements, anyone? --edited based on replies--
#2 emy May 19, 2009 10:57:03	What's Divine Heritage? Just use Wizard instead of Sorcerer, honestly. Academic Priest (for a wiz/cleric) or Dynamic Priest (for a sorc/cleric) can reduce MAD. (These feats are from Dragonlance: Legends of the Twins)
#3 magicdealer May 19, 2009 12:54:48	Divine Heritage gives some free divine cantrips. It's used in the build to meet the prerequisites for Alternative Source Spell... though if I pick up Alternative Source Spell at 3rd level, I can bypass it entirely :/ But either way, I get 17 Divine Caster Progression and only 16 Arcane Caster Progression.
#4 emy May 19, 2009 13:26:44	Well, as long as you're using Alternate Source Spell/Precocious Apprentice trickery, what about Wizard 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 2/Ultimate Magus 10/Mystic Theurge +5 Wizard 17 casting, cleric 17 casting Sure, counting Cleric as a spontaneous arcane spellcaster is a bit iffy, but they can spontaneously cast spells (inflict/cure) and they can cast arcane spells, thanks to A.S.S. though, if you're not too stuck on cleric/wizard or cleric/sorcerer, you could do cool things like wizard/archivist (count wizard as the spontaneous one, w/ Spontaneous Divination)
#5 magicdealer May 19, 2009 13:42:45	Unfortunately, the wording for Ultimate Magus specifies arcane spellcasting classes, where with this build you have a divine spellcasting class who just happens to be able to prepare some arcane spells in those slots. While the archivist is interesting, I still like the cleric better :D
#6 kell_kheraptis May 19, 2009 14:18:55	What campaign setting are you in? In FR, using Ur-Priest is relatively easy, considering the number of dead gods, a few of them good aligned. Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF at 5th)/Rogue 2/Ur-Priest 1/Focluchan Lyrist 9/Unseen Seer 3 Gives minor sneak attack, access to major sneak attack with Hunter's Eye, all the divine buff goodness, on-the-fly information gathering via WizNet Version 5.0 (the ACF), 9th level spells in each, trapfinding, evasion, bardic knowledge (or knack, if that's your thing), bardic music as a level 9 bard, and SAD with the aforementioned Dragonlance feat. There's nothing saying you couldn't write it all in either, as upon leaving Krynn, who's to say you weren't enamored by the dogma of Waukeen, only to realize you'd have to rip the power from another god. Only real downside is a little low on the hp, but any caster worth his salt can mitigate that, let alone a dual caster.
#7 magicdealer May 19, 2009 14:26:45	:p Whole point was to not go Ur-priest, or druid, but rather to do the best possible with cleric.
#8 kell_kheraptis May 19, 2009 14:47:24	:p Whole point was to not go Ur-priest, or druid, but rather to do the best possible with cleric. Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 6/Rogue 2/Focluchan Lyrist 10 perhaps then? Use the early entry tricks from before on both classes, gains most of the same, adds DMM possibility, has decent BAB (15.75 if fractional is used, 16 if you can use the Crusader variant from Dragon, which I believe makes the Cleric a good BAB class) that is obviously subsumed by Divine Power, 9th/9th casting with relative racial freedom (Ilumian is good for basing it all off one stat...like say Cha for Turning synergy, since you can always polymorph into some big arse creature). Otherworldly feat would give all martial weapons and access to some awesome forms, persistent Foresight means not worrying about annoying things like sneak attacks, or even better, Elemental Body means not worrying about any of it :P Nice part is that it only really has a couple slowdowns. 3rd level you'll only be one level behind the party wizard or cleric, while matching them otherwise, 9th-10th you're adding no spellcasting, though I'm sure someone knows of a better filler there, and from there, FL is like that girl you know you shouldn't get with, but is too good to pass up (G version of the original quote).
#9 pyro_azer May 19, 2009 14:49:11	Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF at 5th)/Rogue 2/Ur-Priest 1/Focluchan Lyrist 9/Unseen Seer 3 Where are you getting the bardic knowledge or speaking druidic that you need to be a Fochlucan Lyrist?
#10 kell_kheraptis May 19, 2009 15:14:32	Where are you getting the bardic knowledge or speaking druidic that you need to be a Fochlucan Lyrist? We won't talk about the language issue, as it seems to be a matter of contention here, but I'd forgotten about that bloody Bardic Knowledge requirement...give me a few minutes, gotta go pick up my kid
#11 carnivore May 19, 2009 15:26:18	:D
#12 magicdealer May 20, 2009 1:09:18	Mmm... very nice take on the build. I remember looking at Yathrinshee, then passing over it. Though I think I'll keep my previous entry method So as to get in a level earlier, and because I don't want to be no spontaneous cleric caster :D Race: Lesser Drow Two Flaws for extra feats... 1 Sorc1 Feats: Precocious Apprentice, Extend Spell, Zen Archery 2 Cleric1 3 Cleric2 Feats: Alternative Spell Source 4 Mystic Theurge 5 Mystic Theurge 6 Mystic Theurge Arcane Strike 7 Mystic Theurge 8 Mystic Theurge 9 Mystic Theurge Lichloved 10 Mystic Theurge 11 Mystic Theurge 12 Mystic Theurge Spell Focus Necromancy 13 Mystic Theurge 14 Yathrinshee 15 Yathrinshee Persistant Spell 16 Yathrinshee 17 Yathrinshee 18 Yathrinshee Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric) 19 Yathrinshee 20 Loremaster, for Practiced Spellcaster (Sorc) or Geometer perhaps.
#13 magicdealer May 20, 2009 15:26:45	Hmm... upon further reflection, it appears that this build actually stops at 8th level spells for both cleric and sorc. 2cleric/2sorc/10mystic theurge/6Yathrinshee the Yathrinshee class only provides 4 levels of spellcasting progression. 2 for cleric/sorc, 10 mystic theurge, and 4 Yathrinshee for a total of 16 each. sigh
#14 rebel7284 May 20, 2009 15:53:41	Dragonwraught Venerable X Kobold (Where X is whichever variant gives -2 int instead of -2 Con) using Loredrake and Greater Rite of Passage. Sorcerer 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 3/Holt Warden 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 1 Feats: Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell, Endurance Casts like a level 18 Sorcerer and Level 19 Cleric.
#15 carnivore May 21, 2009 4:23:34	the Yathrinshee class only provides 4 levels of spellcasting progression. 2 for cleric/sorc, 10 mystic theurge, and 4 Yathrinshee for a total of 16 each. sigh no this is incorrect.... IIRC, Yathrinshee is a 10 level PrC that Advances Both Arcane and Divine casting at every level similar to Mystic theurge, but with more Reqs thus it has the stats as i posted .... i dont have access to the book(Players Guide to Faerun) anymore, if it is different, please post the correct PrC stats :D
#16 ashyl May 21, 2009 4:57:37	no this is incorrect.... IIRC, Yathrinshee is a 10 level PrC that Advances Both Arcane and Divine casting at every level similar to Mystic theurge, but with more Reqs thus it has the stats as i posted .... i dont have access to the book(Players Guide to Faerun) anymore, if it is different, please post the correct PrC stats :D Either it has been erata'ed, or you are refering to a previous printing of it, cause the one I see printed in my Guide to Faerun progresses 6 levels of spellcasting (losses at 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th)... So your build would end up with 16 CL for both classes. Just remove 3 levels of Yathrinshee or find a way to get earlyer access to MT. Or replace C-Cleric with Ur priest ^^ (could the last work?).
#17 carnivore May 21, 2009 5:03:03	opps...my bad.... i was doing that from memory, and didnt have the book in front of me back to the drawing board for another idea :D
#18 magicdealer May 22, 2009 10:09:26	Rebel, thats.... beautiful. Kobolds remain the most powerful race ever. /joy