Thanks!
First check out:
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards: Being a God
Logicninja's Guide to Wizards Being Batman
Wizard's Handbook
Then:
Short Sorcerer's Handbook
Another Sorcerer's Handbook
Optimizing Sorcerers
Most importantly, you have to get at least 18 Lvls of Sorc Casting ... so either Dipp 2 Lvls of Non-Sorc or a prc losing up to 2 Caster Lvls.. since your playing core only, your a bit at an disadvantage (no cool PrCs like Abjurant Champ or feats like Ascetic Mage)
I would say, you have 3 possibilities:
1) Gish-Type Sorc (hard to accomplish - you have to look for a good BaB and still should not loose any CL - furthermore Polymorph and Shapechange are your best Friends)
2) Blaster-Type (No big deal - Sorc 20, blast spells and some minor buffs)
3) Batman/GOD - Type (simply read the appropriate guides)
I personally would NOT build a blaster ... you will never have a Dmg-output like your BSFs and thats somehow frustrating
Gish-Type in Core Only is really a tough one ... you have D4 most of the Time and only a mediocre BaB ... so imho a good way to build one could be:
Fighter 1 (good BaB, Martial Weapon Profeciency, Bonus Feat)
Sorc 6
Eldritch Knight 8
Archmage 5
(or Eldrich Knight 10, Archmage 3)
Advantages: Fair BaB (14/15), High Arcana (5/3) 2 Bonus Feats
Disadvantages: lvl 9 Spells only at charlvl 20, bad HD (10+9*d4+10*d6)
A Blaster ... well ... thats really easy:
Sorc 14
Archmage 5
Sorc 1
High arcana to Blast like you got a pair ... no big deal
The Batman-Type looks quite like the above Build ... but instead of Blast Spells take Batman/Godspells as Spells known...
core books + phb2 means that you have only a few choices for PrCs.... of these ikildkenny gave most of the best.... except Loremaster can be a good choice, but you need to learn some Divinations first.... try this:
these spells fullfil the pre-reqs for loremaster and are useful at the same time for any Sorceror:
[indent]
Detect Poison
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Identify
True Strike
See Invisibility
Arcane Sight[/indent]
this will give you some extra Spells and a Bonus Feat..... since you need several feats to qualify for both PrCs .... it helps
then you could have a Build like this:
Human
Sorceror 7/ Loremaster 8/ Archmage 5
feats:
Spell Focus(Transmutation)(Human Bonus)
1st lvl: Spell Focus(Conjuration)
3rd lvl: Skill Focus(Knowledge(Arcana))
6th lvl: Skill Focus(Spellcraft)
8th lvl: Weapon Focus(Ray)(loremaster bonus) or Smiting Spell
9th lvl: Extend Spell or Vatic Gaze
12th lvl: Leadership
15th lvl: Improved initiative
18th lvl: Augment Summoning
this gives a versatile spell caster with many options, good skills
if you want to focus on one spell for many uses: Arcane Thesis is very useful
:D
thx for the compliment ;)
@Topic
Personally I would disagree on the Loremaster Depending on the type of sorc you want to play:
gishtype: No good Idea: bad BaB, Bad HD ... the Lore and Secrets do not really help you...
Blaster Type / GOD: probably better than going pure Sorc because you loose nothing and gain something helpfull (Secrets, lore) - one disadvantage is the (possible) loss of BaB and the point that you cannot dump INT ... esspecially because of the good secrets and the needed skill requirements ...
Your Feat choice of course depends on being GOD or Blaster ...
Oh ... and one thing to the Blaster-Type Sorc (and possibly Gish-type):
A one Level Dip into Marshall (replacing Fighter in the Gish-type-build) gives you the Determined Caster Aura - Add your CHA mod on checks to overcome Spellresistance ...
sure, it loses you one Bab (and thats not allways good depending on the type played (Gishtype 13/14, Blaster 9)) and you are another Level late for higher spelllevels but the win (esspecially as a blaster) is huge - its like having spellpenetration and greater SP (as soon as you have CHA 18) and you can even push it further with items that ADDITIONALLY push your other casting abilities
ikildkenny gives some excellent advice .... i would add this:
core books + phb2 means that you have only a few choices for PrCs.... of these ikildkenny gave most of the best.... except Loremaster can be a good choice, but you need to learn some Divinations first
A core sorcerer can't get into Loremaster (until epic levels) because they only have one Knowledge skill on their class list.
Sadly, I think the best Core sorcerer is a wizard who memorizes the same few spells over and over again.
A core sorcerer can't get into Loremaster (until epic levels) because they only have one Knowledge skill on their class list.
... im so used to playing with Flaws and taking Education(Eberron) along with Knowledge Devotion(Comp Champ).... i completely forgot...you could still do it with a single Dip into Ranger or a 2 lvl Dip into Paladin ... but those lead to a Gish Builds
you also could go with a Mystic Theurge build... but it wont be as nice:
Cleric 3/ Sorceror 4/ Mystic Theurge 10/ Archmage 3.... dosent get 9th lvl spells
:D
do we have a ratio of how much of one type of casting ='s a level of another type?
where 9/9 is perfect.. and 8/9 is really pretty good.. when does x/8 get reasonable?
where 9/9 is perfect.. and 8/9 is really pretty good.. when does x/8 get reasonable?
When you are getting enough other abilities that in actual play the 9th level spell wouldn't improve the character's playability.
It's hard to give hard and fast rules on paper, because some spells are, well, broken by RAW.
In the games *I* play, no DM will let me abuse Shapechange, Absorption, Gate, or Astral Projection; and Wish is as likely to just kill me (or worse) without a 10 page paper (even if I want to use one of the 'normal' uses) describing what I wish for. On top of that, most mobs we fight at that level are going to be immune or nigh immune to any of the SoS/SoL/SoD and Debuff spells available. So, 9/10, I'm only left with Timestop as a really useful spell 9th level. If I can get something that's just as good as that, I don't generally sweat not having 9th level spells.
It isn't 'optimal' and all the logicheads in the room are going to cringe just thinking about it. But I play dual casters and 'gishes' without 9th level spells on a fairly regular basis and can more than make up for the 'lack' in actual play. I just built an Arcane Heirophant with only 8/8 @20, because I decided to go with Human paragon levels instead of extra Mystic Theurge. To that character, the bonus feat, the +2 to a stat, and the UMD as an 'always' class skill were worth it. It sucked losing Tsunami (it's a pirate campaign), but honestly, by the time I hit 20th level, I've got so many ways to sink ships and destroy small cities with 8th and below, it's really just overkill. I also just built a daggerspell mage with only 8ths, but honestly, a 10 attack full attack with all of them 6d6 Sneak Attacks *AND* a spell every round is disgusting enough.
Do they compare well to classes with 9ths available? Well, I think it depends on the player(s) and the campaign(s). If my DM is dumb enough to let me abuse them there are 9th level spells that are gamebreaking. But if he doesn't, there aren't many that are quantifiably extraordinarily superior to 8th level spells.
just my 2cp