whats THE best druid build for 3.5?
i will be making a 3.5 druid this fall/winter and cant wait.
restrictions:
ANY 3.5.
2 class plus 1 prestige for crossclassing
my numbers are 16, 16, 16, 14, 13, 12
thoughts on an optimized shapeshift druid?
just read alot about the shapeshift druid (players handbook 2), i think i may do it. it sounds much more like what i imagine a druid to be (and more balanced). im going to think it over, i have till this winter.
since i cant cast spells in animal form, casting feats arent as necessary, but combat feats may be. combat reflexes and quick draw might be good, as well as mobility feats.
idk, but i think this is it, shapeshift Druid 20, wild or wood elf (because you retain your ability scores with shapeshift )
thanks!
~katy
any ideas/ brainstorming is very welcome!
whats THE best druid build for 3.5?
i will be making a 3.5 druid this fall/winter and cant wait.
restrictions:
ANY 3.5.
2 class plus 1 prestige for crossclassing
i really like the druidic avenger variant class (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/unearthedCoreClass.html#druidic-avenger) from UA, and might lean towards that to start. i kinda want to mimic the diablo 2 druid, and deal crazy damage in morphed form.
any ideas/ brainstorming is very welcome!
Planar Shepard allows you to wildshape into a magical beast and an elemental. It's out of Eberron Five Nations I think. Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer) also has some great wildshap capabilities. Those are the two most common druid builds that I see.
Druid 5/ Planar Shepard 10/ Druid 5
Otherwise if you can get your DM to allow one more prestige class then this would be an even better option.
Druid 5/ Planar Shepard 10/ Warshaper or Nature's Warrior 5
I would recommend the Wild Shaping Ranger if you wanted a true shapeshifter damage dealing class to combine with Master of Many Forms. But that doesnt help you make a druid build...so I dont know y i contributed it lol
Ranger is a lot lower on terms of damage than druid.
Planar Shepherd is from Faiths of Eberron. Consider using the lvl 4 planar druid substitution level to get the Knowledge (Planes).
Planar Shepard allows you to wildshape into a magical beast and an elemental. It's out of Eberron Five Nations I think. Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer) also has some great wildshap capabilities. Those are the two most common druid builds that I see.
The Planar Shepherd allows you to wildshape into outsiders, too, which is where most of its true power (and cheese potential) lies (and the planar effect thingy). Often considered too broken to work in a normal game, PS is certainly the most powerful option (see gorfnad the shiznit's build, for example).
Master of Many Forms has some mid-game power peaks (e.g., War Troll form), but since it doesn't progress spellcasting, you'll ultimately end up behind in terms of power. Depending on the expected level range for the campaign it might be a good option (up to level ~15 max), especially if you want to focus on wildshaping.
The most common druid build is still Druid20. Simple, unobtrusive, and still among the most powerful things you can do. Prestige classes are not really needed - druid is almost its own prestige class.
All you need to decide is ACFs, feats (simple: get Natural Spell and then select others to taste), companion. See the druid handbook for ideas.
Some general advice: druid is one of the most powerful classes. Unless you play with a highly optimized group, it doesn't require any effort to keep up. you can easily afford to waste half your feats and items on flavor stuff and you'll still be one of the Big Boys. If you want fun, I'd not overlook the flavor issue.
The most common druid build is still Druid20. Simple, unobtrusive, and still among the most powerful things you can do. Prestige classes are not really needed - druid is almost its own prestige class.
All you need to decide is ACFs, feats (simple: get Natural Spell and then select others to taste), companion. See the druid handbook for ideas.
+1 'nuff said
healer role
fighter role
arcane spellcaster
sneak role
support role
i am the healer (he said that he considers druid to be a healer). this will be my first druid PC, and im excited.
is it worth taking one level of master of many forms (druid 19/momf 1) just so i could still communicate with my party members? its seems talking might be useful...but humanoid wildshape seems kinda useless (but correct me if im wrong!)
but the price would be [3 elemental/day, huge elemental, 4 lev nine spells]...
im just not sure that it would be worth it
but the price would be [3 elemental/day, huge elemental, 4 lev nine spells]... im just not sure that it would be worth it
You absolutely do not need to enter into a PrC for your Druid to own, and if you are concerned about losing elemental abilities and level 9 spells, then that is strong incentive to keep the class going from 1 to 20.
There are plenty of feats that widen your Wild Shape arsenal: Frozen Wild Shape from Frostfell, Aberrant Wild Shape from Lords of Madness, etc. This gives you a huge selection of powerful monsters to use.
Other feats to consider are Bestial Charge (Pounce for one and pounce for all) from Complete Champion (this feat is particularly nasty with Aberrant Wild Shape, granting pounce to many forms that were never ever meant to have it), Great and Small also from CCh (useful for grappling forms), and a host of other feats too numerous to list here.
The bottom line is that in order to maximize Wild Shape power, you do not need to take a PrC, thus losing Elemental Wild Shape abilities and level 9 spells. A Druid 20 progression, with the right feats thrown in, works quite well in providing you powerful tools to stay relevant throughout the campaign.
-ktkenshinx-
I rolled 16, 16, 16, 14, 14, 12.
i was thinking elf, and lawful neutral, kind of an "arbiter of nature" build.
"Touch of Healing" for out-of-combat healing.
SF: Conjuration Augment Summoning + Imbued Summoning, summon something at start of combat, and then buff (healing is buffing) others.
Minor Shapeshift might be okay, but req SF: Transmutation.
Vigor line of spells.
If you want to be a healer, consider Combat Medic: it's Sanctuary effect allows you to cast a healing spell on a tripped character, and they can get up without suffering additional attacks. Evasion is always a nice perk, and the ability to spontaneously cast Heal from a 6th+ level slot really repairs your inability to spontaneously cast Cure spells.
At 9th, pick Leadership (Since you picked Natural Spell at 6th.) and get a Bard cohort with Healing Hymn.
should i be an elf? i was just looking at whisper gnome (if i could get him to allow it). thoughts on race?
healer role
fighter role
sneak role
support role
You are able to cover all those roles. You shouldn't be an elf, whisper gnomes are far superior.
If you want to communicate with the rest of the party, there is ghostwise halfling from Faerun CS, which lets you communicate via a weird form of telepathy.
And your stats should probably be: 12/14/14/16/16/16
edit: are you allowed to start at a later age category (middle-aged, old) ?
You could start as an old (-3 physical +2 mental) whisper gnome (-2 str -2 cha +2 con + 2 dex) with 12/14/16/16/16/14 and finish with: 9/13/13/18/18/14
*edit* Your Edit has the more usual spread. Clever, using racial boosts to offset aging penalties.
the DM is requiring that we have one of each of the following in our party:
healer role
fighter role
support role
i am the healer (he said that he considers druid to be a healer). this will be my first druid PC, and im excited.
Do yourself a favor and get him to reclassify the druid as either the 'Fighter' or the 'Support' role. 'Healing' is generally unnecessary, at least 'in combat', and it isn't really playing to your (many) strengths.
Read this and this and this and even possibly this to get an idea of how truly powerful and versatile you are before you let him subjugate you into a role that many do not enjoy, is generally unappreciated, and that often is unnecessary and inefficient.
If you do get stuck playing a healer, I recommend taking the Magic of the Land feat (I think from RoTW, but I'm AFB), so that your buffs can do the healing for you, (use Acorns of Far Travel so that your always eligible). Remember that SNAIV can summon a unicorn that will do more healing than you can with a 4th level slot, and that the vigor line will heal more (on average overall) than cures on a level/level basis.
For stats...
I'd put the 3 16s in Wis, Con, and Int, the 14's in Dex and Cha, and the 12 in strength. I'd personally recommend human over elf, especially if ya'll are playing pathfinder rules. If you do decide to go with elf, pick one of the variants that increases wis (I think it's star elf, but I can't remember and am AFB).
The feats that I, personally, like for druids are:
Natural Spell (necessary)
Natural Bond (only if it can take away the - from higher level AC's)
Companion Spellbond
Magic of the Land
Draconic Wildshape
Spontaneous Healer (for the rare circumstances when it's NECESSARY to heal)
Greenbound Summoning
Augment Summoning
Spell Focus Conjuration (necessary for Augment Summoning)
Draconic Aura-Vigor
The above can all be taken as a human with two flaws. Without flaws, I'd probably drop the summoning feats, first.
You are able to cover all those roles. You shouldn't be an elf, whisper gnomes are far superior.
If you want to communicate with the rest of the party, there is ghostwise halfling from Faerun CS, which lets you communicate via a weird form of telepathy.
And your stats should probably be: 12/14/14/16/16/16
edit: are you allowed to start at a later age category (middle-aged, old) ?
You could start as an old (-3 physical +2 mental) whisper gnome (-2 str -2 cha +2 con + 2 dex) with 12/14/16/16/16/14 and finish with: 9/13/13/18/18/14
what a sweet thought! my dm has talked alot about age playing a factor in his game too, hmmm, an old whisper gnome druid.
would timeless body negate age category effects?
or would i retain them, then gain timeless body and a thousand faces and look/be whatever?
Do yourself a favor and get him to reclassify the druid as either the 'Fighter' or the 'Support' role. 'Healing' is generally unnecessary, at least 'in combat', and it isn't really playing to your (many) strengths.
If you do get stuck playing a healer...
you misunderstand. we all have a 'role' but that only limits what class to choose from. as the healer role, i could choose cleric, druid, healer, etc, because those are classes he catagorized as healers. i DONT however have to select healing feats, or go all heal-type routes with this.
some nice thoughts there too.
i like the feat list particularly, exactly what i was looking for. can you [edit] with what books they are in?
i dont think i will be doing much of a leadership thing with this character, because i envision a little bit of a loner type in myself for this PC
Why not 16 in Con? I mean, all stats are good, so I don't think it's an issue, but what is the gain, for a druid, in 16 Cha vs. 16 Con? Higher-level cohort earlier, if going with Leadership?
*edit* Your Edit has the more usual spread. Clever, using racial boosts to offset aging penalties.
14 is fine most of the times, because although you keep your HPs, i hate seeing my fort save go down when wild shaping.
And i'm a mental stats junkie <3
Another idea is:
- old dragonborn gnome (normal, not whisper) (-5 str -5 dex +1 con +2 int +2 wis +2 cha)
- old dragonborn desert half-orc (i'm actually playing one of them in a campaign, mentioned because you can grab the great half-orc druid substitution levels from races of destiny) (-3 str -5 dex +1 con +2 wis +2 cha)
timeless body stops additional aging, and RETAINS age score penalties already accrued, but the character still ages normally in terms of years, and dies of old age.
i dont want to die of old age!!
you misunderstand. we all have a 'role' but that only limits what class to choose from. as the healer role, i could choose cleric, druid, healer, etc, because those are classes he catagorized as healers. i DONT however have to select healing feats, or go all heal-type routes with this.
Right, but if he (and the rest of your party) is expecting you to fill this perceived role, you may run into issues when you start out-damaging the fighter or out supporting the bard, or whatever, and not 'full-filling' your 'role' as the 'healer' every time someone drops a few hit points.
some nice thoughts there too.
i like the feat list particularly, exactly what i was looking for. can you [edit] with what books they are in?
I am AFB at the moment, so this is all from memory, someone will correct me where I am wrong, I am sure, or you can grab the feat index from crystal keep...
Natural Spell (necessary)-PH/SRD
Natural Bond (only if it can take away the - from higher level AC's)-CAdventurer
Companion Spellbond-PH2
Magic of the Land-Either RoTW or PH2, I think
Draconic Wildshape-Draconomicon
Spontaneous Healer (for the rare circumstances when it's NECESSARY to heal)-CDivine
Greenbound Summoning-Lost Empires of Faerun
Augment Summoning-PH/SRD
Spell Focus Conjuration (necessary for Augment Summoning)-PH/SRD
Draconic Aura: Vigor-Dragon Magic
i dont want to die of old age!!
You won't. When you reach max age category, just purchase a Crafted Contingent Last Breath (on death), and kill yourself.
You'll come back in a whole new young adult body, keeping any mental age increases and losing any physical age decreases. Of course, if you're playing some rare off race, you lose your racial bonuses. So don't go with this tactic if you plan on playing a whisper gnome or dragonborn or one of the other options.
...you may run into issues when you start out-damaging the fighter or out supporting the bard.
And, ironically, a vanilla Druid can do all of that without specializing. Though an optimized bard should be able to keep up and even surpass him.
CoDzilla ftw.
Also, if you must be a healer, you should be warned that it's a very boring party role, and there are classes that fit the role better than the druid. Your spell list is full of amazing spells and you're gonna feel bad having to prepare healing spells (which and cleric could spontaneously convert) with your precious slots.
Also, if you must be a healer, you should be warned that it's a very boring party role, and there are classes that fit the role better than the druid. Your spell list is full of amazing spells and you're gonna feel bad having to prepare healing spells (which and cleric could spontaneously convert) with your precious slots.
Read
you misunderstand. we all have a 'role' but that only limits what class to choose from. as the healer role, i could choose cleric, druid, healer, etc, because those are classes he catagorized as healers. i DONT however have to select healing feats, or go all heal-type routes with this.
@pithica Where is last breath from?
@pithica Where is last breath from?
It's in Spell Compendium. It's basically Reincarnate, only it has a cheaper material component, doesn't cost you a level, and is a level lower than reincarnate. The caveat is that it must be cast 1rnd after death, so you either have to have a druid on hand you can trust to cast it on you immediately after you die, or have to have it as a contingent effect.
Of course, like Reincarnate, it takes an hour for your new body to form, so it's not something to use in combat, like Revivify is.
That said, if your Dm lets you take Planar shepherd, with even baseline outsider forms of your HD, you'll be tanking and mopping the dungeons tiles with the blood of your enemies. Warshaper (good until 4th) and and Nature's Warrior (good all the way through) are great combat prcs, and if you want to be the solution to your party's problems, go Master of Many Forms.
Druid 20 though is an extremely powerful balance of....well, everything. With the Wildshape focus, and considering the equipment rules, don't forget the "Bite of the Were----" line of spells in Spell Compendium...+14 enhancement bonuses to strength are nice
And, as a bonus, they apply to your familiar too. Grab Natural Bond and get an improved animal companion form for a solid cohort alternative.optimize a whisper gnome druid 20. GO!
~age penalties will be involved, but maybe not the way they are in the books.
~i like the diablo 2 druid because of its casting and wild shape. not so much for the summoning
~combat oriented, healing secondary.
~raw animalistic power. mmmm
~multiple animal companions? like a pack of wolves, or a pair of leopards?
does wildshape get affected by being a small race instead of a medium? does the size get shifted down a category?
~multiple animal companions? like a pack of wolves, or a pair of leopards?
does wildshape get affected by being a small race instead of a medium? does the size get shifted down a category?
The only way I know of to get multiple companions is with the Beastmaster class. The 3.0 druid, if I recall correctly, could have multiple companions by default, but it was removed in the 3.5 update.
Wildshape isn't affected by a character's normal size.
As far as optimizing, I'd just go straight vanilla druid 20, I don't know the stat adjustments for a whisper gnome off the top of my head, but I believe my initial array of 16 Wis/Con/Int, 14 Dex/Cha, and 12 Str is probably still the way to go, though if they get a Str Pen and a dex bonus, I'd switch the two.
Since you said you didn't want to go the summoning route, my feat choices would go:
Spontaneous Healer (1), Natural Bond (3), Natural Spell (6), Magic of the Land (9), Draconic Wildshape (12), Draconic Aura: Vigor (15), Companion Spellbond (18)
But that is based on my memory of the feat pre-reqs, you may have to adjust them. You could also consider trading away the Draconic Aura for Craft Contingent Spell.
For an Animal Companion, I'd start with a Riding Dog or a hawk (or a Dire Hawk, if your DM let's you get it at the same level as a halfling), and switch to a Dire Eagle at level 3. Everyone else is going to tell you to switch to a Fleshraker at level 3, and let me say, right out, they are correct that it's the more powerful option, I just can never get a DM to let me use Dinosaurs, for some reason, so the Dire Eagle is the option I've grown to prefer.
From there, It's mostly about spell/gear selection. At mid levels (10-15), be sure to take advantage of all the great hr/lvl buffs druids have, pairing them with extend rods so that they last (effectively) all day. Also, be sure to buy Wildling Clasps for all of your gear as quickly as you can afford (and at 4k a pop, they're pretty cheap) so that your gear works in wildshape. Abuse the heck out of Acorn of Far Travel, if you can, so that you can get 'environment' advantages on all your spells (I try and find an oak near the ocean to get bonuses on Kelpstrand and Tidal Surge, for example).
I didn't catch which level you were starting/ending at, nor all the books allowed, so I could get more specific, but I'd highly recommend you read the guides I posted first, as they contain much more, and more better, information than I could possibly fit in a single post.
optimize a whisper gnome druid 20. GO!
~age penalties will be involved, but maybe not the way they are in the books.
~i like the diablo 2 druid because of its casting and wild shape. not so much for the summoning
~combat oriented, healing secondary.
~raw animalistic power. mmmm
~multiple animal companions? like a pack of wolves, or a pair of leopards?
does wildshape get affected by being a small race instead of a medium? does the size get shifted down a category?
No, one more level of awesome about wildshape is that it's almost entirely independant of your original form, EXCEPT HITPOINTS! If you're going for raw animalistic power, and you want to be on the frontlines, wildshape does nothing to give you extra hps. Pump con, perhaps even more than wis if you won't be casting alot. Aging penalties hurt your con, so you might want to rethink being old, middle-aged will make you a better combatant.
Wilding clasps are your friend. The Bite of the Were--- spell series (SC) are an INSANELY good way of getting enhancement bonuses on you without spending all that extra gold on wilding clasps (4k each.) on 4k or 16k ability enhancement items.
Also, i highly recommend taking Natural Bond (CAdv or CD or CC, can't remember) it ups your effective druid level re: your animal companion. This + a higher level animal companion with higher level bonuses + share spells effectively creates two tanks if you're clever about it.
For raw damage, go bear. For mobility+combat, if your DM allows it, use Megaraptor (5 attacks :P) or deinonychus. Keep a sheet of the various forms, and keep an eye out on the HD wildshape limit. Your low BAB means you need to pick forms with very high strength, otherwise you won't hit anything.
Natural Spell is also a must-have. Augment summoning is handy for when you need a distraction, or the party tank needs to be in two places at once and can't. Answer? summon a tough meat shield.
A list of utility forms is also key, especially if your games tend towards being more open-ended rather than straight hack'n'slash. You can fly, swim, burrow, climb, move undetected...think of your wildshape as a swiss army knife, not just a combat knife.
i'm not sure about extra animal companions, i think there's something out there, but i'm away from my books so i'll need time to go take a look.
Wilding clasps are your friend. Find some decent armor and clip it on, it will pump your AC.
Wildling Clasps (from the MIC) won't work on armor (normally). Armor needs the Beastskin (MIC) or Wild (DMG) properties to continue working in wildshape.
right you are. I'll edit that.
The one in the MIC actually allows you to use it on any item 'worn on the body' but only if the item 'can be reasonably worn by the new form'. Since I don't think you're fitting humanoid armor on a velociraptor, it shouldn't (normally) work.
(Now, if you're a planar shephard and are taking humanoid outsider forms, that's a whole nother story).
~i like the diablo 2 druid because of its casting and wild shape. not so much for the summoning
Summoning is POWERFUL...
That being said, Druids have a delicious set of blasting and battlefield control on their list, too.
~combat oriented, healing secondary.
~raw animalistic power. mmmm
~multiple animal companions? like a pack of wolves, or a pair of leopards?
I highly recommend against. Fleshraker Dinosaur is one of the best. Bears tank and hit hard, but cats get pounce. That being said, you should be training animals whenever you get the chance.
Remember, you MUST cast boosts on your animal companion, and equip them with collars and so forth.
does wildshape get affected by being a small race instead of a medium? does the size get shifted down a category?
No.
Feat-wise... well you already have some advice. Basically, as long as you pick Natural Spell, you have a theoretical freedom to pick whatever you like with the rest. You will probably want Improved Natural Attack on Claw, Bite or both, as well as Flyby Attack. Take a long, hard look at Monster feats you may qualify for. It all depends on the type of CoDzilla you want to be.
SF: Conjuration is still a good idea, since that's what majority of your spells are. Well, maybe.
That's the older version.
The one in the MIC actually allows you to use it on any item 'worn on the body' but only if the item 'can be reasonably worn by the new form'. Since I don't think you're fitting humanoid armor on a velociraptor, it shouldn't (normally) work.
QUOTE]
i hate it when items are worded so vaguely. If the item is, for example, a chain shirt, then there's really not much more change in shape when going from say, a human to firbolg as opposed to human to bear.
thoughts on Druid 5-6/(Bard or Wizard) 4/Arcane Heirophant 10?
i think the bards spell list is pretty nice, and combined with the druids, i would have plenty of buffing spells, but not really any damage spells. the druid has a few, and they are awesome, but they dont compare with the wizards evoc school at all.
druid/wizard, or druid/bard? then heirophant?
thoughts on these two combos, and the heirophant in general.
thanks!
~katy
jesus christ, I should change my screen name to a chics name
LOL! well i am a "chic" as you put it haha, here, look
by the way, i edited my OP to reflect a little of whats been discussed
LOL! well i am a "chic" as you put it haha, here, look
by the way, i edited my OP to reflect a little of whats been discussed
I wasn't doubting that you were a chic. Just funny how eager everyone is here to help out a damsel in distress.
I wasn't doubting that you were a chic. Just funny how eager everyone is here to help out a damsel in distress.
lol, well HELP ME, HELP ME! DRUID/BARD, GO!
Bottom line, it's nice, but not as powerful as druid 20.
lol, well HELP ME, HELP ME! DRUID/BARD, GO!
Fochlucan Lyricist, Complete Adventurer. You need Evasion Class ability and several skills with lots of ranks so a 2 level dip into Rogue is a must without cheese.
Most common build would be this Rogue 2/Druid 4/Bard 4/Fochlucan Lyricist 10
10/10 BAB, d6 HP, 6 skills per level, +10/+10 Druid and Bard spell levels.
Bottom line, it's nice, but not as powerful as druid 20.
What he said. If you want flavor then go for it. If you want straight ownage go Druid 20 or Druid 5/ Planar Shepard 10/Druid 5.
ill probably do druid20, but i like to explore options like this. thanks for your observations guys!
Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge +2
Has Caster level of 17 in both classes, and 9ths in both.
I am currently playing almost that exact build in my current campaign, and am having a ball. We started at 9th, and from 9th -11th, or so, I pretty much HAD to creatively use low level spells, and the most broken low level spells, to contribute to the group. I'm almost 14th now, and it's gotten to the point where the straight wizard is starting to go, "You have how many spells?"
It isn't for everyone, though. I've played others, at other levels.
From 1-3 it plays just like any other Druid (or Wizard, if that's where you started). But from 4-12, you are, at best, a 3rd or 5th wheel in the group. Unless you use the most broken spells, and nothing else, you won't be able to really do the things either a wizard nor a druid are supposed to be doing at your level.
Somewhere between 12th and 15th, is when the build starts coming into it's own, and it begins shining between 16th and 20th (all depending on the build and your ability).
However, the pain of playing from 4-12, JUST ISN'T WORTH IT. If you're an experienced player, looking for a challenge, maybe, but you'll find yourself using spells like kelpstrand a lot, and feeling dirty for all the cheese. But do not play that as your first druid.
If your allowed early entry cheese, it's a bit easier, but even then, you're going to be behind the straight casters for a LONG time.
im reading it right now, and i would NOT have to have a familiar at all. buut youre right about not having maxed spells. shoot. the best i can do is a 13th caster level wizard, and a 17 caster level druid. so 6th level wiz spells, and 9th lev druid spells.
ill probably do druid20, but i like to explore options like this. thanks for your observations guys!
There is still hope. But it involves DM approval, as it is tricky.
If you open your complete arcane at page 181, you'll find two feats. The one is called "precocious apprentice" and it can be taken at 1st level. It provides you with a 2nd level spell.
Assuming that covers the requirement for arcane hierophant, you can go:
Wizard 1/Druid x/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid y
That will give you only 1 lost caster and wild shape level, while adding arcane versatility to your character.
Another thought is to go warlock (or better, dragonfire adept) 1/druid 5/eldritch disciple 10/druid x
eldritch disciple (from complete mage) is normally a warlock/cleric prestige, that advances both spellcasting classes. But read the adaptation part! You can change the entry requirement to "wild shape" (it requires turn undead normally) and advance your wild shaping, too. This way you lose 2 divine caster levels and get a few draconic invocations.
Wizard 1/Druid x/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid y
Note that this is highly questionable by RAW. In fact, the feat has been shown to not work as a means of qualifying for dual-casting PrCs. I'd avoid it.
Another thought is to go warlock (or better, dragonfire adept) 1/druid 5/eldritch disciple 10/druid x
eldritch disciple (from complete mage) is normally a warlock/cleric prestige, that advances both spellcasting classes. But read the adaptation part! You can change the entry requirement to "wild shape" (it requires turn undead normally) and advance your wild shaping, too. This way you lose 2 divine caster levels and get a few draconic invocations.
I like it. Tack on Dragon Wildshape for a very flavorful and powerful build.
THAT being said....
this other route you have shown me is way cool too. my friend is playing mystic theurage in our game right now, so im not going to do that when he DMs this fall
I will be starting as a level 1 druid.
we have class restrictions out the ___! we cannot cross-class till level five, and are limited to this format; class/class/prestige class. only 2 base classes and ONE prestige class allowed. there are also stat requirements for each class. a fight has to have at least a 15 in str, and a 13 in con. wizard has to have 16 int, and 14 in something else.
also there are restrictions about crossing. a barbarian could never cross into a rogue or wizard for instance, but could cross into a sorcerer (wizards have to read....also, the very nature of a barb goes against that of a wiz, etc). its actually very nice to have these in place, because now i have to be extra creative when choosing what to do.
his name is andy. he says "this isnt D&D, this is AD&D!" the A standing for 'andy'.
eldritch what? i looked in complete arcane and found nothing. i DO remember an eldritch knight though i couldnt find that either....
i want to optimize Druid/Arcane spellcaster/Arcane hierophant i think. because it is still a druid in my mind.
but if you can give me an outline for another build that has spellcasting in both, and full wildshape, then lay it on me.
I like it. Tack on Dragon Wildshape for a very flavorful and powerful build.
alas, there is only 1 dragon in his game. it might be hard to be allowed to gain this feat.
BAHUMUT is the dragon mentioned
Offtopic:
Given the restrictions, your MT friend could actually play a true necromancer - and lose nothing.
If he gets into TN with precoc. apprentice (TN requires a specific spell!):
Cleric 5, Wiz 1, TN 14. TN has 4 single class advancement, which is like MT 10 and 4 further levels of base classes (however, the single levels kick in earlier for the wiz casting, as clr is already 2 ahead).
The same build as an MT is Cleric 7, Wiz 3, MT 10. They actually have the same caster levels. However, the MT could chose Wiz to be his benefiting side - but is that little flexibility worth no class features?
/offtopic.
I like the shifter ACF's from Races of Ebberon on a druid 20:
The beast spirit ACF is plain fun,
Shifting in elemental wild shape is fun too, especially with the +2 size bonus to claws'n'jaws (if wild shape ACF is taken).
This won't need natural spell - given eschew materials:
Elementals can speak, and there are some encounter examples in which elementals wield weapons (as in the weapon of legacy encounters).
So they have 'hands'.
For the arcane hierophant, my bet would be on wiz 3 - else 9th level druid spells are screwed. This way, they still come in lately...
I would go shifter druid 20, taking all ACFs; or shifter druid 16, then natures warrior 4.
jesus christ, I should change my screen name to a chics name
Wow, totally missed that insinuation (hence the "Uhm..")...I should probably start reading profile names.
I wasn't doubting that you were a chic. Just funny how eager everyone is here to help out a damsel in distress.
and as a result, I missed the meaning here too. So my aid was gender neutral!
we have class restrictions out the ___! we cannot cross-class till level five, and are limited to this format; class/class/prestige class. only 2 base classes and ONE prestige class allowed.
Under those conditions, the suggestion of Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Druid +5 is the only way to fly.
eldritch what? i looked in complete arcane and found nothing. i DO remember an eldritch knight though i couldnt find that either....
Eldritch Disciple. It's in Complete Mage.
Eldritch Knight is in the DMG, but that's neither here nor there.
my numbers are 16, 16, 16, 14, 14, 13
Arcane Heirophant.
STR 13
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 16
WIS 16
CHA 14
You may also want to check out Green Whisperer (DR311) which is an easy to get in PrC with +1 Druid/+1 Bard casting class before Arcane Hierophant.
should i be an elf? i was just looking at whisper gnome (if i could get him to allow it). thoughts on race?
Race doesn't much matter for a Druid. Avoid Human as you lose your human bonus feat when wild shaping.
would timeless body negate age category effects?
or would i retain them, then gain timeless body and a thousand faces and look/be whatever?
Depends on the DM. I think the closest RAW way to get it past is to age to venerable, THEN take your first class level in Druid. Once you get timeless body, unless I'm mistaken, it says you age no more. You still die when your "time" runs out, but I don't think you should lose the ones you already have.
LOL! well i am a "chic" as you put it haha, here, look
If that actually is you (and I believe it is), you are not only a gamer "chic" but quite beautiful one as well.
we have class restrictions out the ___! we cannot cross-class till level five
i want to optimize Druid/Arcane spellcaster/Arcane hierophant i think. because it is still a druid in my mind.
All they MT/AH type classes require 3 and 3, I don't know of a way to enter them early that would pass most DM's rules test. The early entry methods usually exploit poorly worded passages of text to be interpreted usually counter to intent.
Ignore the Green Whisperer, since you are limited to one PrC. It will be hard to do an optimized AH without another MT/Green Whisperer PrC.
The only "optimized" way I know to get Arcane/Divine (but not Wild Shape advancement) is to start with a Sharn (Anauroch p155 ish), but it is Favored Soul/Sorcerer (6th level on both) with 4 HD and 5 LA. So you would pay 9 effective levels for 12 levels of casting, then add MT on top. Looks ugly and can't be polymorphed/wild shaped.
Under those conditions, the suggestion of Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Druid +5 is the only way to fly.
Eldritch Disciple. It's in Complete Mage.
Both suggestions are solid.
should i be an elf? i was just looking at whisper gnome (if i could get him to allow it). thoughts on race?
Race doesn't much matter for a Druid. (...)
Elf is not a good idea. You will want to avoid races with a penalty to CON, as this affects your HP - even when wildshaped. Whisper Gnome, on the other hand, is great.
Avoid Human as you lose your human bonus feat when wild shaping.
I very much doubt this is true.
Under those conditions, the suggestion of Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Druid +5 is the only way to fly.
Don't forget the good old Druid20. Deceptively powerful.
if you like me here, you should see me writing about MtG lol! sexy. ;)
good stuff too, i am going back over everthing tha has been said so far, and im digging it. i will look into Eldritch Disciple if i can find it. complete mage eh? i have complete arcane...but not there. internet, here i come!
will post more when i read up on planar shepard, and Eldritch Disciple
Elf is not a good idea.
Aquatic, Arctic, Desert, Painted, Snow, Wild Elves are fine with no loss of CON.
Avoid Human as you lose your human bonus feat when wild shaping.
I very much doubt this is true.
3.5 FAQ page 82 is clear, you lose it. It makes sense, and is also the cleanest interpretation of the rules (at least in my view.)
3.5 FAQ page 82 is clear, you lose it. It makes sense, and is also the cleanest interpretation of the rules (at least in my view.)
Page 82 of the 3.5 FAQ is discussing, primarily, the freedom of movement and grease spells. It mentions nothing about wildshape or human bonus feats. There is no section in the 3.5 FAQ on humans, and nothing in the Druid section mentions anything about losing bonus feats. Further, the Alternate Form ability specifically states that creatures keep all Special Qualities of their original form (which would include 'racial abilities'), of which the bonus feat would be one, so it doesn't seem to me that your interpretation is even close to correct.
On Page 88, there is a question regarding losing racial traits when casting polymorph type spells. But Wildshape isn't based off of polymporph any longer, it's based off alternate form. I have heard this argument before, and at best, that's a highly debatable reading of the rules. (Just as much as the inverse of the argument, that casting Alter Self et al into human form grants a bonus feat.)
In fact, in that section it specifically states that:
For alter self and the alternate form and change shape special abilities, it’s reasonable to conclude that they are retained (and new ones aren’t gained), since your type and subtype(s) remain the same regardless of the new form.
I've honestly never played under a DM that has made the ruling that Wild Shape costs you your human feat, and it's a dubious interpretation of the rules (and counter to the FAQ). YMMV.
Aquatic, Arctic, Desert, Painted, Snow, Wild Elves are fine with no loss of CON.
Sure, but the question was "should i be an elf?". And that is not a good idea as a druid.
About loosing the human bonus feat, see pithica's (excellent) reply.
I've honestly never played under a DM that has made the ruling that Wild Shape costs you your human feat, and it's a dubious interpretation of the rules (and counter to the FAQ). YMMV.
+1.
disregarding the hierophant talk from earlier;
i think the most levels i would take of another base class would be 3. in other words, if i took 3 levels of another race, should i even? or just go druid 20? i was wondering about druid/barb, or druid/scout, or druid/rogue. idk, i just like the idea of having a sneak attack as a wildshaped wolf, or rage etc. is it even worth it?
Long Answer...Druid is so powerful on it's own that you don't really *need* anything else to be a powerhouse, much less effective. Through judicious use of your many awesome class features, you can be 'the best' or 'the 2nd best' at just about every aspect of the game within your group just by sticking with druid. If you want to take other classes, you can get away with taking 2 or 3 (or even 5) levels in some other class and you will still be effective, but you almost certainly will not be better off than if you had just stuck with druid. It also will be much more difficult to play through by taking those levels. One of the Druid's strongest class features is spellcasting, so anything that slows your spellcasting advancement is going to bog you down.
Wild Elf makes sense, for flavor reasons, but if I recall correctly, it's stats/racial abilities to not jibe with Druid as a class. For example, they get +2 Str/Dex (neither of which matter when in Wildshape) for -2 Con/Int/Cha (all of which hurt to lose, Con for hitpoints, Int for skills, and Cha for handling summons/ACs).
Short answer...No, it is not worth it to take 3 levels in another class. You're better off just going Druid 20.
Long Answer...Druid is so powerful on it's own that you don't really *need* anything else to be a powerhouse, much less effective. Through judicious use of your many awesome class features, you can be 'the best' or 'the 2nd best' at just about every aspect of the game within your group just by sticking with druid. If you want to take other classes, you can get away with taking 2 or 3 (or even 5) levels in some other class and you will still be effective, but you almost certainly will not be better off than if you had just stuck with druid. It also will be much more difficult to play through by taking those levels. One of the Druid's strongest class features is spellcasting, so anything that slows your spellcasting advancement is going to bog you down.
Wild Elf makes sense, for flavor reasons, but if I recall correctly, it's stats/racial abilities to not jibe with Druid as a class. For example, they get +2 Str/Dex (neither of which matter when in Wildshape) for -2 Con/Int/Cha (all of which hurt to lose, Con for hitpoints, Int for skills, and Cha for handling summons/ACs).
i just read about them in the monster manual, and it says wild elves get +2dex, -2int. wood elves gain +2str, -2int. now wood elves seem pretty awesome for this class, for melee purposes.
i probably will go druid 20, ive just been thinking about other options
i just read about them in the monster manual, and it says wild elves get +2dex, -2int. wood elves gain +2str, -2int. now wood elves seem pretty awesome for this class, for melee purposes.
i probably will go druid 20, ive just been thinking about other options
If you absolutely must be and elf due to flavor reasons, pick a subrace that gets an INT bonus. Bonuses to STR and DEX end up meaningless because you'll spend a lot of time wildshaped.
And regarding the barbarian idea, you could use the Druidic Avenger variant: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAvenger
You lose the animal companion and spontaneous SNA and gain rage and fast movement. Not having an animal companion means a lot less ass-kickery, but the option is there.
i just read about them in the monster manual, and it says wild elves get +2dex, -2int. wood elves gain +2str, -2int. now wood elves seem pretty awesome for this class, for melee purposes.
i probably will go druid 20, ive just been thinking about other options
I don't know which is correct, I didn't even know wild elves were in the MM. The stats I gave were from the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting.
Strength and Dex are both overwritten whilst in Wild Shape, so any bonuses you have to them are worthless by around level 8 or 9, when you'll likely be walking around wildshaped all day (or at least, in every combat, when strength and dex actually matter).
High Elf: +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution
Wild Elf: +2 Dexterity, –2 Intelligence. These adjustments replace the high elf ’s ability score adjustments.
Wood Elf: These traits are in addition to the high elf traits, except where noted. — +2 Strength, –2 Intelligence.
None of the above elf variants are quality druid material. If you need an elf druid, pick something without a penalty to wis, con, int.
Options are:
Arctic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9
Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12
Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34
You can even be a half elf.
Still, none of the options above is quality druid material.
otherwise, ill pick a different race. in his game, gnomes are on average, a foot tall. with would make me tiny were i to be a gnome. whisper gnome is out now, denied by the dm.
Play a gnome.
Tiny?!?!?!
Play a gnome.
i know, right?a tiny little gal who can change into huge critters! sounds pretty cool anyway.
Ahnckelle Byttah
idk, but i think this is it, shapeshift Druid 20, wild or wood elf (because you retain your ability scores with shapeshift
)