Best tank build?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

torun

Jun 07, 2010 0:34:34
I need to make a character who will make an awesome tank class.
Warblade was recommended to me however i have no experience with them could someone tell me exactly what PHB race/non exotic race would be best for a tank class and will a warblade be my best choice. If so what feats should i focus on? If not what class/race/feats should i look for?
#2

gorfnad_the_shiznit

Jun 07, 2010 1:01:56
May I suggest instead a crusader or a mix of crusader and warblade

Taken from Tome of Battle for Dummies

Build Stub: Human Crusader 20

Feats:
Human: Combat Reflexes
1: Stand Still
3: Extra Granted Maneuver
6: Combat Expertise
9: Improved Trip
12: Robilar’s Gambit
15: Defensive Sweep (PHB2)
18: Overwhelming Assault (PHB2)

What makes it good?

This build combines almost all of the usual reach and AoO optimization tricks and spends most of its time in the Thicket of Blades stance, with Stand Still and Improved trip to force an opponent to stand and face you.

The build then focuses on making this a lose-lose situation for your opponent.  If they choose to attack you they trigger Robilar's Gambit to grant you AoOs and charge up your Furious Counterstrike ability.  If they don't attack you then they trigger your Defensive Rebuke boost, and Defensive Sweep and Overwhelming Assault feats to grant you AoOs and bonuses on your attacks.

So, your opponent is punished if they (a) try and move away from you, (b) stand and attack you, and (c) stand and don't attack you.  There aren't many good options left for them really.

Stomguard Crusader
Build Stub: Human Crusader 16 / Warblade 4 (Crusader 8 / Warblade 1 / Crusader +2 / Warblade +1 / Crusader +2 / Warblade +1 / Crusader +2 / Warblade +1 / Crusader +2)

Feats:
Human: Combat Reflexes
1: Stand Still
3: Extra Granted Maneuver
6: Stone Power
9: Ironheart Aura
12: Stormguard Warrior
15: Robilar's Gambit
18: Defensive Sweep (PHB2)
Show

Maneuvers in Italics are later swapped out.

Crusader 1: Charging Minotaur (SD 1), Crusader's Strike (DS 1), Douse the Flames (WR 1), Leading the Attack (WR 1), Stone Bones (SD 1) + Martial Spirit (DS 1, Stance)
Crusader 2: Iron Guard's Glare (DS 1, Stance)
Crusader 3: Foehammer (DS 2)
Crusader 4: Swap Leading the Attack -> Battle Leader's Charge (WR 2)
Crusader 5: White Raven Tactics (WR 3)
Crusader 6: Swap Stone Bones -> Defensive Rebuke or Revitalising Strike (DS 3)
Crusader 7: Divine Surge (DS 4)
Crusader 8: Swap Charging Minotaur -> White Raven Strike (WR 4) + Thicket of Blades (DS 3. Stance)
Warblade 1: Iron Heart Surge (IH 3), Moment of Perfect Mind (DM 1), Wall of Blades (IH 2) + Punishing Stance (IH 1, Stance)
Crusader 9: Radiant Charge (DS 5)
Crusader 10: Swap Crusader's Strike -> Flanking Maneuver (WR 5)
Warblade 2: Lightning Recovery (IH 4)
Crusader 11: Order Forged From Chaos (WR 6)
Crusader 12: Swap Douse the Flames -> Rallying Strike (DS 6)
Warblade 3: Iron Heart Focus (IH 5)
Crusader 13: Clarion Call (WR 7)
Crusader 14: Swap Foehammer -> White Raven Hammer (WR 8) + Immortal Fortitude (DS 8, Stance)
Warblade 4: Dancing Blade Form (IH 5, Stance)
Crusader 15: Strike of Righteous Vitality (DS 9)
Crusader 16: Swap Battle Leader's Charge -> War Master's Charge (WR 9)
#3

lormador

Jun 07, 2010 7:52:28
Warblade is an excellent tanking class, the other being Crusader. There are ways to tank with other things, depending on books allowed.

I will in passing give an honorable mention to the Deepwarden, a dwarven PrC from Races of Stone with sick, beautiful abilities.

Rather than pontificate on the varieties of Crusader/Warblade, and which combination of the two is the best in your particular case, I'll take this opportunity to lay out (at the risk of misplacing myself) a more literal 'tank' character.

A Soulbow is not generally considered a Tank character. But I will say, that if you can use Crystalkeep material, there's a little variant under Fighter called Targetteer. They get a nice little ability that gives.... drum roll.... Dex to damage with ranged weapons!

Now look under Ranger. There's a nice variant called Moon-Warded Ranger that gives Wis to AC. But look! You can wear armor and use a shield! Now check out Soulbow. You can use a shield with that, too!

With Wis and Dex on damage + AC + 2 of your saves, in armor with a Tower shield, this is well on the way to Tankland. Unlike most tanks, you don't even need to be in melee. Once the encounter starts, just point and shoot.

For the cool points, play a Dwarf and get a level of Dwarven Defender or something. Then you can sit there and hammer away with Greater Psionic Shot + Manyshot. 
#4

carnivore

Jun 07, 2010 15:03:14
if you wan to use Soulbow .... you dont need Targeteer .... just focus on Wis.... you could do very nicely like this:

Dwarf
Monk 4/ Soulknife 3/ Soulbow 8/ Deepwarden 2/ Dwarven Defender 3

BAB +16
Wis to AC, Attack, Damage
Con to AC
Greater Flurry with Mind Arrows(feats required: Monastic Training, Tashalatora, Flowing Blade)

Laughing


#5

BloodDragon

Jun 08, 2010 11:19:24
if you wan to use Soulbow .... you dont need Targeteer .... just focus on Wis.... you could do very nicely like this:

Dwarf
Monk 4/ Soulknife 3/ Soulbow 8/ Deepwarden 2/ Dwarven Defender 3

BAB +16
Wis to AC, Attack, Damage
Con to AC
Greater Flurry with Mind Arrows(feats required: Monastic Training, Tashalatora, Flowing Blade)


Out of curiosity why 4 levels of Monk instead of Monk 2 and something else?

#6

carnivore

Jun 08, 2010 11:36:46
the main goal is to get 11 effective levels of Monk for Greater Flurry.... also you dont want to loose any more BAB ..... Monk 2/ Soulbow 10 would lose another BAB ... Monk 2/ Soulbow 8/ xx? would not get Greater Flurry ... unless the PrC progressed Flurry of Blows ... could go with Disciple of the Eye(Races of the Dragon) ... but it would also lose another BAB

Laughing

#7

BloodDragon

Jun 08, 2010 12:10:42
Hmn.

Would that stack with Rapid Shot?

Also Soulbow doesn't give Wis to Attack but it can get Zen Archery as a bonus feat so easily fixed.
#8

torun

Jun 09, 2010 1:29:28
Robilar’s Gambit
 just says that it allows an opponent who attacks you a bonus to attack and dmg but u get a AoO but it does not specify how much of a bonus it gives? anyone know?
#9

Maat_Mons

Jun 09, 2010 3:53:48

Are you just reading the excerpt on the website? That only contains the table of feat summaries that appears at the beginning of the feat section in Player's Handbook II. The full text of the feat specifies the bonus quite clearly.


When you Google something, it's often worth checking out the second result before giving up.

#10

carnivore

Jun 09, 2010 4:57:44
they gain +4 to hit and damage if you are using Robilars Gambit.... notice:

Robilar's Gambit

Type: General
Source: Player's Handbook II


By offering Robilar's Gambit, you absorb damage to place yourself in an advantageous position. This dangerous sacrifice is not for the unfit or the unwise, for one failed retaliatory strike can undo the advantage gained. lord Robilar, a rash and impetuous fighter, gained fame using this technique against his enemies.


Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes, base attack bonus +12.
Benefit: At the start of your action, you can adopt a fighting stance that exposes you to harm but allows you to take advantage of your opponents' exposed defenses as they reach in to attack you. Anyone who strikes at you gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against you. In return, they provoke attacks of opportunity from you each time they swing. Resolve your attack of opportunity after your foe's attack.
Special: A fighter can select Robilar's Gambit as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Normal: Opponents do not provoke attacks of opportunity by attacking. Further, when an opponent provokes an attack of opportunity, you resolve your attack before he completes the action that provoked the attack of opportunity.


#11

spiral_rider_h

Jun 09, 2010 8:10:50
I played a dwarven Warblade like this:

Warblade 7/Deepwarden 2/Dwarven Defender 10/Deepwarden +1

Prerequisites for Deepwarden were a bit tough since Heal, Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Survival are cross-class. Luckily that 4+Int skill points made up for it. I just dumped Dex and did this for feats:

  1. Insightful Reflexes*
  3. Dodge
  5. Endurance (Warblade)
  6. Improved Toughness (take Toughness here if your DM won't let you qualify with Improved)
  9. Heavy Armor Optimization*
12. Greater Heavy Armor Optimization*
15. Shield Specialization (heavy)*
18. Shield Ward*

Feats marked with an asterisk could be changed to feats associated with a lockdown build if so inclined to make it more tankish.
#12

torun

Jun 11, 2010 17:42:02
that is a pretty nice build from what i can tell spiral. seems like it defenitly has alot of defensive capabilities.

and thank you carnivore that helped me tremendously.
#13

carnivore

Jun 12, 2010 10:12:18
you a welcome.... i would second Gorfnad_the_shiznits suggestions, they are very good

what are you looking for?

Laughing




 
 
#14

torun

Jun 12, 2010 21:23:59
well as someone who has not played in a really long time i wanted a simple outline build of a tank character who could not only tank but deal okay dmg and be self sufficient as our healer doesnt heal. Our dm insist on puttin us up against hard targets that require team effort and coordination. but since our cleric doesnt heal i need something that can tank better than just a heavy armor fighter/samurai. but that can also heal themselves in ways that wont require a healer. the simpler the build/class/feats are the better off i am as i havent really played since 2002. lol. the Human 20 crusader build that gorfnad listed is what i am leaning towards atm unless someone gives me a better idea ^_^.