Best way to get dodge/mobility? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Best way to get dodge/mobility?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dyslexicfaser
Dec 05, 2008 21:55:35 Specifically, is there an easy and convenient way to get dodge/mobility without needing to spend two feats on them? I need them for the prereq's for the Swiftblade PrC, but I'd rather keep my 1-6 feats open for other things.

I seem to remember a thread on this subject, but a glance through Surreal's list didn't reveal it to me.
#2
carnivore
Dec 05, 2008 22:02:29 be a Pixie(gain Dodge, Alertness, and Weapon Finnesse as bonus feats) and buy Armor of Mobility (Draconomicon, 16,160gp) Grants the Mobility feat.

then just do this:

Pixie

Battle Sorceror 6/ Swiftblade 10

BAB +14
12th lvl spells Known(6th lvl) @ 16th lvl caster(with practiced Caster)

lots of fun

other ways:
Combat Medic also gives Mobility feat

:D
#3
DeAnno
Dec 05, 2008 22:06:44 Monk 2, with the Cobra Strike fighting Style (DR 310), or Martial Monk 2 (again, DR 310) will give you Dodge and Mobility as bonus feats. Since you don't seem keen on taking Fighter 2 for it though, this probably isn't too useful.
#4
dyslexicfaser
Dec 05, 2008 22:14:21 Both good suggestions.

DeAnno, I wasn't real keen on Monk 2 or Fighter 2, but there are worse things. I was planning on making a melee-focused Swiftblade, so the loss of two CLs doesn't bother me.

As for the pixie... well... that just seems like lots of fun. Not especially deadly, but good luck finding him to exact retribution! Meanwhile, he'll be using hasted Bounding Assault to pink you to death.

EDIT: On the Armor of Mobility topic, will the +1 bonus Mobility from the MIC work the same? The wording is a little different: you 'gain the benefit of' the mobility feat, instead of the feat itself.
#5
Endarire
Dec 06, 2008 0:13:00 What about martial wizard1 for a fighter bonus feat?
#6
ChristopherGroves
Dec 06, 2008 7:23:50 If you go monk and don't mind losing the caster levels there's always something like this:

monk 2 (the cobra strike from UA http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike)
sorcerer 6
swiftblade 10
arcane duelist 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)

And in case it isn't obvious, with Ascetic Monk.
#7
thegodhead
Dec 06, 2008 13:57:55 For the love of god, don't take LA or multiclass out of wizard before swiftblade. Mobility (MIC) combined with keeping heroics (SC) active all the time is the only way you can do it without losing feats one way or another.
#8
jameswilliamogle
Dec 06, 2008 14:05:54 You could use the Embrace / Shun shuffle to retrain weapon proficiencies, racial bonus feats, or class based bonus feats, too.

I really like the pixie ideas, though... Sylph would be another way to go, too, I think.
#9
carnivore
Dec 06, 2008 14:41:48
You could use the Embrace / Shun shuffle to retrain weapon proficiencies, racial bonus feats, or class based bonus feats, too.

I really like the pixie ideas, though... Sylph would be another way to go, too, I think.

very nice .... can do a great Mystic theurge with it as well

:D
#10
dyslexicfaser
Dec 07, 2008 3:20:26 Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to learn more.

Where can I find info on the sylph? I don't remember it from the srd...
#11
carnivore
Dec 07, 2008 16:27:57 Slyph(MM2 p192),(3.5up p36)+,(Eb p99)+

Sylph: Outsider;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
Skills from MM 2 entry:
Balance +9, Concentration +5, Escape Artist +7,Hide +11, Jump +1,Knowledge (nature) +10, Listen +9, Move Silently +7,Spot +9, Survival +9, Tumble +7;
Feats: Combat Casting, Empower Spell;
LA +5;
Wild Empathy (Ex): This power works exactly like the druid's wild empathy
class feature.

cast spells as 6th lvl Druid, IIRC, am away from books atm

:D
#12
vglcat
Dec 07, 2008 20:09:56 PIXIE POWER!!!!

eat your heart scrappy doo!!!:D
#13
pithica
Dec 08, 2008 8:42:41 Sylphs cast spells as a sorceror with 4 more caster levels than they have hit dice. According to the update for MM2, it's LA is +5 (and it has 3 Outsider hit dice).

With a generous reading, since it did not specify 'racial' hit-dice, one could argue that they're always ECL-1 as a caster level in sorceror no matter what classes they take. Go straight druid and you come out 12 Druid/19 Sorceror.

Even if that get's no-no'd, they start at ECL 8 with 7 levels of sorceror. Take 3 levels of Druid and you qualify by default for Arcane Heirophant. It's not as impressive, 12 druid/16 sorceror (lose 9nths) but still pretty sweet (8th level sorc spells and wildshape as dru 12).
#14
Endarire
Dec 08, 2008 14:56:13 Swiftblade doesn't seem viable enough as a gish. You lose -4- caster levels. Even the standard eldritch knight gish loses only 3.

If you seek a casting-heavy gish, I advise Human Paragon1/Barbarian1 (Lion Totem and Whirling Frenzy)/Martial Transmuter1/Human Paragon+2/Martial Transmuter+1/Ruathar2/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Ruathar+1/Sacred Exorcist4. You end with 16 BAB and a base wizard caster level of 18. You must be NG or CG for it to work, but that should be no problem!

As for Swiftblade, if you intend to be a full wizard who wants to enter ASAP, be a gray/sun/fire elf, take Martial Wizard1 and trade Scribe Scroll for Dodge, then take Mobility at level 1 or 3.

If you wish to wait yet be a full wizard, you can take Dodge and Mobility beginning at level 7. Most likely you'll take Dodge at 9 and Mobility at 12.

The final option, should you wish to enter Swiftblade at level 7, is to take a level of fighter or another class that grants Dodge or Mobility as a feat.
#15
thegodhead
Dec 08, 2008 15:40:20
Swiftblade doesn't seem viable enough as a gish. You lose -4- caster levels. Even the standard eldritch knight gish loses only 3.

If you seek a casting-heavy gish, I advise Human Paragon1/Barbarian1 (Lion Totem and Whirling Frenzy)/Martial Transmuter1/Human Paragon+2/Martial Transmuter+1/Ruathar2/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Ruathar+1/Sacred Exorcist4. You end with 16 BAB and a base wizard caster level of 18. You must be NG or CG for it to work, but that should be no problem!

As for Swiftblade, if you intend to be a full wizard who wants to enter ASAP, be a gray/sun/fire elf, take Martial Wizard1 and trade Scribe Scroll for Dodge, then take Mobility at level 1 or 3.

If you wish to wait yet be a full wizard, you can take Dodge and Mobility beginning at level 7. Most likely you'll take Dodge at 9 and Mobility at 12.

The final option, should you wish to enter Swiftblade at level 7, is to take a level of fighter or another class that grants Dodge or Mobility as a feat.

Look at the class features though. (Ex) miss chance to everything, casting stat to init, bonus standard action, better than timestop timestop. Only gish PrC that has class features worth the CL lost IMO.
#16
Endarire
Dec 08, 2008 15:46:38 It's debatable, and based on my inexperience with it but my experience with my build, I found being a spell level behind the party significant.
#17
thegodhead
Dec 08, 2008 17:03:23
It's debatable, and based on my inexperience with it but my experience with my build, I found being a spell level behind the party significant.

You're a spell level behind the party with ANY gish build. Of course it's significant as a caster. The first rule of gishes is that you are not a caster though. You're just a massively powerful melee.
#18
acereraklives
Dec 08, 2008 22:43:00 In the 3.0 DMG you can get dodge/mobility off of an intelligent magic item, I believe...not sure if that's changed in the 3.5 version - it's not listed in the SRD, so it probably was.

Anyhow, I think the "cheapest" way to enter would be to take fighter bonus feats as a wizard in place of scribe scroll/metamagic feats, and get dodge at 1st, then get mobility as an enchantment on your armor (maybe on 2 suits if you're worried about 1 getting stolen and losing your class features).
#19
emansdrawkcab
Dec 08, 2008 23:41:10 The "cheapest way" would probably be a Venerable Dragonwrought Loredrake Kobold, Fighter 1/ Stalwart Sorcerer 4. Plus, if you do the ritual at 6th level you end up with 18th level Sorcerer casting.

Even "cheaper," add White Dragonspawn, +1 LA, and buy it off for 19th level Sorcerer casting. In this case don't apply Stalwart Sorcerer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dyslexicfaser Dec 05, 2008 21:55:35	Specifically, is there an easy and convenient way to get dodge/mobility without needing to spend two feats on them? I need them for the prereq's for the Swiftblade PrC, but I'd rather keep my 1-6 feats open for other things. I seem to remember a thread on this subject, but a glance through Surreal's list didn't reveal it to me.
#2 carnivore Dec 05, 2008 22:02:29	be a Pixie(gain Dodge, Alertness, and Weapon Finnesse as bonus feats) and buy Armor of Mobility (Draconomicon, 16,160gp) Grants the Mobility feat. then just do this: Pixie Battle Sorceror 6/ Swiftblade 10 BAB +14 12th lvl spells Known(6th lvl) @ 16th lvl caster(with practiced Caster) lots of fun other ways: Combat Medic also gives Mobility feat :D
#3 DeAnno Dec 05, 2008 22:06:44	Monk 2, with the Cobra Strike fighting Style (DR 310), or Martial Monk 2 (again, DR 310) will give you Dodge and Mobility as bonus feats. Since you don't seem keen on taking Fighter 2 for it though, this probably isn't too useful.
#4 dyslexicfaser Dec 05, 2008 22:14:21	Both good suggestions. DeAnno, I wasn't real keen on Monk 2 or Fighter 2, but there are worse things. I was planning on making a melee-focused Swiftblade, so the loss of two CLs doesn't bother me. As for the pixie... well... that just seems like lots of fun. Not especially deadly, but good luck finding him to exact retribution! Meanwhile, he'll be using hasted Bounding Assault to pink you to death. EDIT: On the Armor of Mobility topic, will the +1 bonus Mobility from the MIC work the same? The wording is a little different: you 'gain the benefit of' the mobility feat, instead of the feat itself.
#5 Endarire Dec 06, 2008 0:13:00	What about martial wizard1 for a fighter bonus feat?
#6 ChristopherGroves Dec 06, 2008 7:23:50	If you go monk and don't mind losing the caster levels there's always something like this: monk 2 (the cobra strike from UA http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike) sorcerer 6 swiftblade 10 arcane duelist 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) And in case it isn't obvious, with Ascetic Monk.
#7 thegodhead Dec 06, 2008 13:57:55	For the love of god, don't take LA or multiclass out of wizard before swiftblade. Mobility (MIC) combined with keeping heroics (SC) active all the time is the only way you can do it without losing feats one way or another.
#8 jameswilliamogle Dec 06, 2008 14:05:54	You could use the Embrace / Shun shuffle to retrain weapon proficiencies, racial bonus feats, or class based bonus feats, too. I really like the pixie ideas, though... Sylph would be another way to go, too, I think.
#9 carnivore Dec 06, 2008 14:41:48	You could use the Embrace / Shun shuffle to retrain weapon proficiencies, racial bonus feats, or class based bonus feats, too. I really like the pixie ideas, though... Sylph would be another way to go, too, I think. very nice .... can do a great Mystic theurge with it as well :D
#10 dyslexicfaser Dec 07, 2008 3:20:26	Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to learn more. Where can I find info on the sylph? I don't remember it from the srd...
#11 carnivore Dec 07, 2008 16:27:57	Slyph(MM2 p192),(3.5up p36)+,(Eb p99)+ Sylph: Outsider; Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; Skills from MM 2 entry: Balance +9, Concentration +5, Escape Artist +7,Hide +11, Jump +1,Knowledge (nature) +10, Listen +9, Move Silently +7,Spot +9, Survival +9, Tumble +7; Feats: Combat Casting, Empower Spell; LA +5; Wild Empathy (Ex): This power works exactly like the druid's wild empathy class feature. cast spells as 6th lvl Druid, IIRC, am away from books atm :D
#12 vglcat Dec 07, 2008 20:09:56	PIXIE POWER!!!! eat your heart scrappy doo!!!:D
#13 pithica Dec 08, 2008 8:42:41	Sylphs cast spells as a sorceror with 4 more caster levels than they have hit dice. According to the update for MM2, it's LA is +5 (and it has 3 Outsider hit dice). With a generous reading, since it did not specify 'racial' hit-dice, one could argue that they're always ECL-1 as a caster level in sorceror no matter what classes they take. Go straight druid and you come out 12 Druid/19 Sorceror. Even if that get's no-no'd, they start at ECL 8 with 7 levels of sorceror. Take 3 levels of Druid and you qualify by default for Arcane Heirophant. It's not as impressive, 12 druid/16 sorceror (lose 9nths) but still pretty sweet (8th level sorc spells and wildshape as dru 12).
#14 Endarire Dec 08, 2008 14:56:13	Swiftblade doesn't seem viable enough as a gish. You lose -4- caster levels. Even the standard eldritch knight gish loses only 3. If you seek a casting-heavy gish, I advise Human Paragon1/Barbarian1 (Lion Totem and Whirling Frenzy)/Martial Transmuter1/Human Paragon+2/Martial Transmuter+1/Ruathar2/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Ruathar+1/Sacred Exorcist4. You end with 16 BAB and a base wizard caster level of 18. You must be NG or CG for it to work, but that should be no problem! As for Swiftblade, if you intend to be a full wizard who wants to enter ASAP, be a gray/sun/fire elf, take Martial Wizard1 and trade Scribe Scroll for Dodge, then take Mobility at level 1 or 3. If you wish to wait yet be a full wizard, you can take Dodge and Mobility beginning at level 7. Most likely you'll take Dodge at 9 and Mobility at 12. The final option, should you wish to enter Swiftblade at level 7, is to take a level of fighter or another class that grants Dodge or Mobility as a feat.
#15 thegodhead Dec 08, 2008 15:40:20	Swiftblade doesn't seem viable enough as a gish. You lose -4- caster levels. Even the standard eldritch knight gish loses only 3. If you seek a casting-heavy gish, I advise Human Paragon1/Barbarian1 (Lion Totem and Whirling Frenzy)/Martial Transmuter1/Human Paragon+2/Martial Transmuter+1/Ruathar2/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Ruathar+1/Sacred Exorcist4. You end with 16 BAB and a base wizard caster level of 18. You must be NG or CG for it to work, but that should be no problem! As for Swiftblade, if you intend to be a full wizard who wants to enter ASAP, be a gray/sun/fire elf, take Martial Wizard1 and trade Scribe Scroll for Dodge, then take Mobility at level 1 or 3. If you wish to wait yet be a full wizard, you can take Dodge and Mobility beginning at level 7. Most likely you'll take Dodge at 9 and Mobility at 12. The final option, should you wish to enter Swiftblade at level 7, is to take a level of fighter or another class that grants Dodge or Mobility as a feat. Look at the class features though. (Ex) miss chance to everything, casting stat to init, bonus standard action, better than timestop timestop. Only gish PrC that has class features worth the CL lost IMO.
#16 Endarire Dec 08, 2008 15:46:38	It's debatable, and based on my inexperience with it but my experience with my build, I found being a spell level behind the party significant.
#17 thegodhead Dec 08, 2008 17:03:23	It's debatable, and based on my inexperience with it but my experience with my build, I found being a spell level behind the party significant. You're a spell level behind the party with ANY gish build. Of course it's significant as a caster. The first rule of gishes is that you are not a caster though. You're just a massively powerful melee.
#18 acereraklives Dec 08, 2008 22:43:00	In the 3.0 DMG you can get dodge/mobility off of an intelligent magic item, I believe...not sure if that's changed in the 3.5 version - it's not listed in the SRD, so it probably was. Anyhow, I think the "cheapest" way to enter would be to take fighter bonus feats as a wizard in place of scribe scroll/metamagic feats, and get dodge at 1st, then get mobility as an enchantment on your armor (maybe on 2 suits if you're worried about 1 getting stolen and losing your class features).
#19 emansdrawkcab Dec 08, 2008 23:41:10	The "cheapest way" would probably be a Venerable Dragonwrought Loredrake Kobold, Fighter 1/ Stalwart Sorcerer 4. Plus, if you do the ritual at 6th level you end up with 18th level Sorcerer casting. Even "cheaper," add White Dragonspawn, +1 LA, and buy it off for 19th level Sorcerer casting. In this case don't apply Stalwart Sorcerer.