Best way to reduce spell lv adjustment - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Best way to reduce spell lv adjustment

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
plaguewraith
Apr 05, 2008 18:34:54 what is the best way of to reduce the level of casting spells with metamagic feats for a sorcerer, through feats, magic items, class features, ect.
#2
davethemagicweasel
Apr 05, 2008 18:45:37 On the fly - Arcane Thesis (PHB2), Practical Metamagic (RotD), Easy Metamagic (Dragon Compendium), and the Incantatrix 10 ability (whose name escapes me atm). Heroic Metamagic + Unfettered Heroism (both in Races of Eberron) is very cool as well. especially with some +1 metamagic feats (and you can use the aforementioned feats to reduce them down to +1).

If you've got time to spare (i.e. Persisting) then the Incantatrix Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect abilities. Metamagic Spell Trigger as well (tho it costs a fortune), and the feat of the same name in Complete Mage.

Or the various PrCs that grant free metamagic of one sort or another - Recaster, Arcane Devotee, War Wizard of Cormyr, etc. Depending on what metamagic feat it is you want that is.

Really, the more you tell us about what you're trying to do the more helpful we can be.
#3
jameswilliamogle
Apr 05, 2008 18:48:34 Anima Mage has one of the earliest methods to get free arcane metamagic.

Metamagic School Focus is extremely fast and non-cheesey.
#4
bozwevial
Apr 05, 2008 18:55:31 Don't forget the dweomerkeeper's 10th level ability. (Just remember, even though CustServ claims Arcane Disciple would get you into the class, you might want to take it with a grain of salt.)
#5
plaguewraith
Apr 05, 2008 19:01:27 im making a battle sorcerer with the metamagic specialist variant. i want a evocation necromancer (fell animate + some necromancy spells)

mindless undead are neutral and creating undead is not an evil act in this campaign
#6
jameswilliamogle
Apr 05, 2008 19:06:13
im making a battle sorcerer with the metamagic specialist variant. i want a evocation necromancer (fell animate + some necromancy spells)

mindless undead are neutral and creating undead is not an evil act in this campaign

Although neat, Fell Animate is less efficient at low levels due to that steep metamagic adjustment.
#7
bozwevial
Apr 05, 2008 19:27:34 Easy solution: Use Fell Animate on a damage-dealing cantrip to coup de grace opponents. Bam, you just saved yourself some black onyx.
#8
x-codes
Apr 05, 2008 19:40:09
Although neat, Fell Animate is less efficient at low levels due to that steep metamagic adjustment.

I have to agree for very low levels. But, if you do it like this...

1) Versatile Spellcaster
3) Extend Spell
6) Fell Animate

You can use Versatile Spellcaster to cast Fell Animated Shocking Grasp spells. Combined with Deep Slumber in the 3rd-level slot, you can CDG with the Fell Animated Shocking Grasp and bring back anything you put to sleep with the spell (they would take, on average, 35 damage and have to make a likewise high Fort save DC to live). This would be just in time to meet a 7-headed hydra and turn it into a 14HD zombie under your control.
#9
x-codes
Apr 05, 2008 19:41:10
Easy solution: Use Fell Animate on a damage-dealing cantrip to coup de grace opponents. Bam, you just saved yourself some black onyx.

CDG isn't an auto-win. Damage-dealing cantrips only deal 1d3 damage, meaning the fort save to live through it will be 6, tops. Way too easy to overcome IMO.
#10
plaguewraith
Apr 05, 2008 20:29:55
Although neat, Fell Animate is less efficient at low levels due to that steep metamagic adjustment.

thats why i started this thread

to reduce the cost of metamagic feats

also i was wondering if corpsecrafter feats works on necromancy spells augmented with fell animate (such as a fell animate chill touch)
#11
gagnrath
Apr 05, 2008 21:35:11 the metamagic rods.
#12
x-codes
Apr 05, 2008 22:17:11
thats why i started this thread

to reduce the cost of metamagic feats

also i was wondering if corpsecrafter feats works on necromancy spells augmented with fell animate (such as a fell animate chill touch)

Of course, but Chill Touch is a pretty weak spell to fell animate. Reading the feat, however, it looks like it has to be a necromancy spell. So, at the very least because there's probably something better, use Parching Touch from Sandstorm.
#13
tsuyoshikentsu
Apr 05, 2008 22:28:52 You're doing it wrong. Take Fell Drain and throw a Fell Drain Burning Hands at a group of 1 HD commoners.
#14
x-codes
Apr 05, 2008 22:53:41
You're doing it wrong. Take Fell Drain and throw a Fell Drain Burning Hands at a group of 1 HD commoners.

1) Wights are intelligent undead, so creating them is an evil act, which is something this guy wants to avoid.

2) That will make a lot of Wights, but you won't control them, and Command Undead will only be so effective in controlling them because they're intelligent as opposed to mindless.

This would be a far more effective tactic used by a Cleric and a Fell Draining Parching Touch (obtained via Divine Magician).
#15
tsuyoshikentsu
Apr 06, 2008 0:03:31
1) Wights are intelligent undead, so creating them is an evil act, which is something this guy wants to avoid.

He not only didn't say that but also said that doing it isn't evil in this campaign.

2) That will make a lot of Wights, but you won't control them, and Command Undead will only be so effective in controlling them because they're intelligent as opposed to mindless.

I was illustrating a point. If control's an issue, he mentioned that class levels were an option -- Sacred Exorcist, here we come!
#16
x-codes
Apr 06, 2008 3:40:29 Tsuyo's right on a couple counts, and that caused me to read some posts further...

Do not go Battlesorcerer!!!
#17
plaguewraith
Apr 06, 2008 9:29:35
He not only didn't say that but also said that doing it isn't evil in this campaign.

I was illustrating a point. If control's an issue, he mentioned that class levels were an option -- Sacred Exorcist, here we come!

animating nonintelligent undead isn't an evil act, animating intelligent undead is an evil act unless the undead isn't evil
#18
plaguewraith
Apr 06, 2008 9:31:10
Tsuyo's right on a couple counts, and that caused me to read some posts further...

Do not go Battlesorcerer!!!

i want to get in the combat with my undead, and im not a devoted necromancer making it harder for this to go wrong
#19
plaguewraith
Apr 06, 2008 9:32:59 also we can create deathless versions of skeles and zombies which is a good act. this is a supplement rule that is very helpful
#20
widow
Apr 06, 2008 9:57:00 Not to throw off your build, but what about going dread necromancer and playing an illumian. This will give you the option of using the divine metamagic like ability on arcane spells since divine metamagic does not work on arcane.

Although if action points are in the game, the sorceror's access to unfettered heroism is a must.
#21
bozwevial
Apr 06, 2008 11:52:43
CDG isn't an auto-win. Damage-dealing cantrips only deal 1d3 damage, meaning the fort save to live through it will be 6, tops. Way too easy to overcome IMO.

Perhaps I should have elaborated: CDG opponents who are in the negative hit point region.
#22
x-codes
Apr 06, 2008 15:25:12
Perhaps I should have elaborated: CDG opponents who are in the negative hit point region.

2-6 damage to a dying opponent still isn't an auto-win, not to mention all the hassle involved with putting opponents in that sweet spot, not to mention that if they have resistance 5 to cold, acid, or electricity and you pick the wrong spell then you just wasted a 3rd-level slot to do diddly squat.

If you're not picking up Corpsecrafter, then CDG with Shocking Grasp or a Lesser Orb instead. Otherwise, use Parching Touch, which deals unresistable damage and 2 points of Con damage. Furthermore, since you get multiple touches you can CDG multiple monsters or get multiple attempts on the game guy.
#23
caedrus
Apr 07, 2008 2:41:51 I shall post a little more later, but if you can lay your hands on a Slaymate, then you have an advantage right there.

There are alignment-based problems to overcome, however.

C.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 plaguewraith Apr 05, 2008 18:34:54	what is the best way of to reduce the level of casting spells with metamagic feats for a sorcerer, through feats, magic items, class features, ect.
#2 davethemagicweasel Apr 05, 2008 18:45:37	On the fly - Arcane Thesis (PHB2), Practical Metamagic (RotD), Easy Metamagic (Dragon Compendium), and the Incantatrix 10 ability (whose name escapes me atm). Heroic Metamagic + Unfettered Heroism (both in Races of Eberron) is very cool as well. especially with some +1 metamagic feats (and you can use the aforementioned feats to reduce them down to +1). If you've got time to spare (i.e. Persisting) then the Incantatrix Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect abilities. Metamagic Spell Trigger as well (tho it costs a fortune), and the feat of the same name in Complete Mage. Or the various PrCs that grant free metamagic of one sort or another - Recaster, Arcane Devotee, War Wizard of Cormyr, etc. Depending on what metamagic feat it is you want that is. Really, the more you tell us about what you're trying to do the more helpful we can be.
#3 jameswilliamogle Apr 05, 2008 18:48:34	Anima Mage has one of the earliest methods to get free arcane metamagic. Metamagic School Focus is extremely fast and non-cheesey.
#4 bozwevial Apr 05, 2008 18:55:31	Don't forget the dweomerkeeper's 10th level ability. (Just remember, even though CustServ claims Arcane Disciple would get you into the class, you might want to take it with a grain of salt.)
#5 plaguewraith Apr 05, 2008 19:01:27	im making a battle sorcerer with the metamagic specialist variant. i want a evocation necromancer (fell animate + some necromancy spells) mindless undead are neutral and creating undead is not an evil act in this campaign
#6 jameswilliamogle Apr 05, 2008 19:06:13	im making a battle sorcerer with the metamagic specialist variant. i want a evocation necromancer (fell animate + some necromancy spells) mindless undead are neutral and creating undead is not an evil act in this campaign Although neat, Fell Animate is less efficient at low levels due to that steep metamagic adjustment.
#7 bozwevial Apr 05, 2008 19:27:34	Easy solution: Use Fell Animate on a damage-dealing cantrip to coup de grace opponents. Bam, you just saved yourself some black onyx.
#8 x-codes Apr 05, 2008 19:40:09	Although neat, Fell Animate is less efficient at low levels due to that steep metamagic adjustment. I have to agree for very low levels. But, if you do it like this... 1) Versatile Spellcaster 3) Extend Spell 6) Fell Animate You can use Versatile Spellcaster to cast Fell Animated Shocking Grasp spells. Combined with Deep Slumber in the 3rd-level slot, you can CDG with the Fell Animated Shocking Grasp and bring back anything you put to sleep with the spell (they would take, on average, 35 damage and have to make a likewise high Fort save DC to live). This would be just in time to meet a 7-headed hydra and turn it into a 14HD zombie under your control.
#9 x-codes Apr 05, 2008 19:41:10	Easy solution: Use Fell Animate on a damage-dealing cantrip to coup de grace opponents. Bam, you just saved yourself some black onyx. CDG isn't an auto-win. Damage-dealing cantrips only deal 1d3 damage, meaning the fort save to live through it will be 6, tops. Way too easy to overcome IMO.
#10 plaguewraith Apr 05, 2008 20:29:55	Although neat, Fell Animate is less efficient at low levels due to that steep metamagic adjustment. thats why i started this thread to reduce the cost of metamagic feats also i was wondering if corpsecrafter feats works on necromancy spells augmented with fell animate (such as a fell animate chill touch)
#11 gagnrath Apr 05, 2008 21:35:11	the metamagic rods.
#12 x-codes Apr 05, 2008 22:17:11	thats why i started this thread to reduce the cost of metamagic feats also i was wondering if corpsecrafter feats works on necromancy spells augmented with fell animate (such as a fell animate chill touch) Of course, but Chill Touch is a pretty weak spell to fell animate. Reading the feat, however, it looks like it has to be a necromancy spell. So, at the very least because there's probably something better, use Parching Touch from Sandstorm.
#13 tsuyoshikentsu Apr 05, 2008 22:28:52	You're doing it wrong. Take Fell Drain and throw a Fell Drain Burning Hands at a group of 1 HD commoners.
#14 x-codes Apr 05, 2008 22:53:41	You're doing it wrong. Take Fell Drain and throw a Fell Drain Burning Hands at a group of 1 HD commoners. 1) Wights are intelligent undead, so creating them is an evil act, which is something this guy wants to avoid. 2) That will make a lot of Wights, but you won't control them, and Command Undead will only be so effective in controlling them because they're intelligent as opposed to mindless. This would be a far more effective tactic used by a Cleric and a Fell Draining Parching Touch (obtained via Divine Magician).
#15 tsuyoshikentsu Apr 06, 2008 0:03:31	1) Wights are intelligent undead, so creating them is an evil act, which is something this guy wants to avoid. He not only didn't say that but also said that doing it isn't evil in this campaign. 2) That will make a lot of Wights, but you won't control them, and Command Undead will only be so effective in controlling them because they're intelligent as opposed to mindless. I was illustrating a point. If control's an issue, he mentioned that class levels were an option -- Sacred Exorcist, here we come!
#16 x-codes Apr 06, 2008 3:40:29	Tsuyo's right on a couple counts, and that caused me to read some posts further... Do not go Battlesorcerer!!!
#17 plaguewraith Apr 06, 2008 9:29:35	He not only didn't say that but also said that doing it isn't evil in this campaign. I was illustrating a point. If control's an issue, he mentioned that class levels were an option -- Sacred Exorcist, here we come! animating nonintelligent undead isn't an evil act, animating intelligent undead is an evil act unless the undead isn't evil
#18 plaguewraith Apr 06, 2008 9:31:10	Tsuyo's right on a couple counts, and that caused me to read some posts further... Do not go Battlesorcerer!!! i want to get in the combat with my undead, and im not a devoted necromancer making it harder for this to go wrong
#19 plaguewraith Apr 06, 2008 9:32:59	also we can create deathless versions of skeles and zombies which is a good act. this is a supplement rule that is very helpful
#20 widow Apr 06, 2008 9:57:00	Not to throw off your build, but what about going dread necromancer and playing an illumian. This will give you the option of using the divine metamagic like ability on arcane spells since divine metamagic does not work on arcane. Although if action points are in the game, the sorceror's access to unfettered heroism is a must.
#21 bozwevial Apr 06, 2008 11:52:43	CDG isn't an auto-win. Damage-dealing cantrips only deal 1d3 damage, meaning the fort save to live through it will be 6, tops. Way too easy to overcome IMO. Perhaps I should have elaborated: CDG opponents who are in the negative hit point region.
#22 x-codes Apr 06, 2008 15:25:12	Perhaps I should have elaborated: CDG opponents who are in the negative hit point region. 2-6 damage to a dying opponent still isn't an auto-win, not to mention all the hassle involved with putting opponents in that sweet spot, not to mention that if they have resistance 5 to cold, acid, or electricity and you pick the wrong spell then you just wasted a 3rd-level slot to do diddly squat. If you're not picking up Corpsecrafter, then CDG with Shocking Grasp or a Lesser Orb instead. Otherwise, use Parching Touch, which deals unresistable damage and 2 points of Con damage. Furthermore, since you get multiple touches you can CDG multiple monsters or get multiple attempts on the game guy.
#23 caedrus Apr 07, 2008 2:41:51	I shall post a little more later, but if you can lay your hands on a Slaymate, then you have an advantage right there. There are alignment-based problems to overcome, however. C.