- Wizard/Alienist 15th level (Human)
- Warforged FTR4/Scout15/Book of nine swords shadow stuff (defensive)
- Clr2/pal3/Exorcist of Silver Flame 10 (Human) -me
- Shifter Druid 15
- Druid variant (15) - no wildshape, but can assume some aberration abilities.
We are all very powerful - with more magic then others of our levels, and more spells. We are probably on par with level 16's and even 17's (minus the level 17 goodness spells) - We all have perm +4 enhance buffs (so we don't have to do things like owls wisdom, bears endurance, etc).
We are thinking of force caging ourselves (or if we can manage it the dragon) and just lobbing spells. It's AC (with just shield and greater mage armor) is around 44 so melee will be rough. With assay resistance we are thinking on focusing with no save, but yes on SR (or no on sr spells if available). We are sure it only fails saves on a 1. My paladin would heal and cast utility spells during combat. I am thinking no melee since it's AC is so high, but thinking that we my have to melee.
Books allowed: Core books, spell compendium, Eberron campaign, magic compendium. The DM will use the draconomicon - epic and ritual magic.
So your help
So some spells:
For Melee Users:
* Magic Vestement (Gareth, Six)
* Incite (Gareth, self only spell)
* Greater Blink (Six)
* Prayer (Gareth)
* Barkskin (garet/Six)
For Spell casters:
* Force cage (Nameless)
* Greater Blink (Nameless)
For all users
* Heroism
* Aid (for the +HP)
* Bless
* Haste
* Recitation
* Resist Energy (Acid) -
* Protection from Energy
For Melee Users:
* GMW (Gareth, Six)
* Fell The Greatest Foe (Gareth)
* Divine Favor (Gareth)
* Silence (on a tanglefoot bag) throw it on the dragons . Or give a stone to Six. Now the dragon can't cast spells
* Bestow Curse (gareth or other clerics)
* Contagion (Druid)
For Spell casters:
* Drain spells (Nameless, Korm, Luna)
* GDM (Nameless, Korm, Luna) - use with bead of karma
* Scorching ray 4d6x3
* Orb of cold (15d6)
* Flamestrike is OK. It loses damage vs equiv level dmg spells because it's area effect. How about direct damage spells that aren't aoo
* Maze (use this before dimensional lock)
* Dimensional lock - when the dragon starts to look weak
* Poison (druid/Six)
* Soften earth to mud, followed by mud to stone - now the dragon is trapped Smile - even if its only his legs (which means no leg attacks)
* Poison (druids)
* Sleet storm (hampers vision)
* insect plague
* Subeam (blind him hopefully) - or suburst if that is more likely to get in
For all users
* Prismatic Wall (to block it's escape path)
* GDM/DM on our rings of counterspells
I would say agaisn't the forcecage of yourselves, as that's just asking the dragon to metabreath all of you to death.
keep it spreaded with the casters keeping defenses around them, such as, if possible, anti-life shell, witch works wonders on dragons.
Make sure you open up with Greater Dispel Magic to remove Scintilating Scales and/or Ray Deflection, which I believe are both in SpC. Those are anti-touch attack spells.
Melee types should Fight Defensively and use Combat Expertise. If they don't have Combat Expertise, make sure to cast Heroics(2nd-level spell in SpC) on them and they can have a fighter feat(Combat Expertise) for 10/level or 150 minutes, so long as they have 13 Int. Heck, if they don't have 13 Int, cast Fox's Cunning on them first.
Defending weapons help too; +1 defending everything with GMW.
The defensive style is because of (Someone-oriental name)'s Art of War, where you don't fight foes at what they are strong at; You don't fight Dragons in melee without a very strong setup, but without one you can still raise your AC to the point where the Dragon will miss you if it Power Attacks, and draw it's attention away from fragile party members who lob ranged touch spells at it.
That said, buff the heck out of the meleers ACs. You'll want two people(probably the Martial Adept and the Shifter Druid) to draw the attention while one person(Cleric most likely) works GDM and counterspelling to keep the dragon debuffed and the two other casters literally work their magic on the dragon.
Polar Ray isn't bad, but most Orbs(SpC) cap out at 15d6 IIRC, so use those as they offer no save, no SR: only a ranged touch attack.
Hence why I said open with Greater Dispel Magic: A dragon's spells are it's only defense against ranged touch spells and Dragon caster levels aren't so hot(only 11 for Ancient) so you'll most likely dispel the big ones. Dispelling Cords(MIC) will give you a +2 to this check, increasing the chance of dispel by 10% for each buff.
It's caster level is decent enough that you might want to dispel twice just in case. The Cleric should get a Bead of Karma(DMG, +4 CL for 10 min/day) and activate it just outside the lair for another 20% on dispel checks. Looking back at the OP it seems like you're aware of this though, so good job figuring it out on your own.
The only thing I've failed to take account for is the Breath Weapon, but I'm sure some other intrepid CO-er can help you there.
Step 2: Maw of Chaos from a scroll. Sit back, relax, and watch the dragon rot.
Now, if I knew the exact build of a dragon you would be fighting, and what spells it has, then I could do some serious lock-down strategy for you. But from the sounds of it, the DM is making the beast himself, so I can't help you without it being serious metagaming. And very under-handed as is.
The key here is hitting his Dex and Wisdom scores. Those are the two lowest scores amongst most dragons, and thus the easiest way to cripple their actions. The lower those scores get, the easier the fight.
Step 1: Shivering Touch.
Fixed that for you. Otherwise, good thoughts.
Step 1: Shriveling Touch. Eat his Dex score.
Step 2: Maw of Chaos from a scroll. Sit back, relax, and watch the dragon rot.
Now, if I knew the exact build of a dragon you would be fighting, and what spells it has, then I could do some serious lock-down strategy for you. But from the sounds of it, the DM is making the beast himself, so I can't help you without it being serious metagaming. And very under-handed as is.
The key here is hitting his Dex and Wisdom scores. Those are the two lowest scores amongst most dragons, and thus the easiest way to cripple their actions. The lower those scores get, the easier the fight.
OP doesn't have access to Frostburn. Sheesh. No one reads the actual post these days. Always, "Fighting a dragon? No problem! Shivering Touch!"
OP doesn't have access to Frostburn. Sheesh. No one reads the actual post these days. Always, "Fighting a dragon? No problem! Shivering Touch!"
If I knew what the basic outline of the Dragon's capabilities were, I wouldn't have posted that. I would have given a round-per-round strategy that would wreck the Dragon without resorting to the standard kill spell. Sadly, I failed my spot check to see the Book list. And we don't have the key stats of the Dragon for me to work off of.
The bad news about the Tanglefoot Bag+Silence combo is it doesn't affect the enemy if they are only partially inside the radius of the spell, the same way AMF doesn't stop a Titan from using Chain Lightning unless the entire thing is around him. If you can lower his Reflex Saves and have enough cash to spare, hit him with Tanglefoot Bags every round. Bad news about this is the DC to break out of them or cast spells while entangled is so low it isn't worth trying unless you can disrupt his casting. The Orb spells (namely Force and Sonic) will do this very nicely, and prevent him from breaking out of them. Grab a wand of those spells, sap his Reflex with something (there are spells for it, trust me) and just keep pegging him. Even if he makes the check to burst free, he has to waste an action.
You need some way to shut off his breath weapon at all times. Otherwise, he will just quicken it, burst free, fly around, and do a strafing run on you. Some spells do it, and a Rogue ACF from Dragon Magic does it. See if you can get those. After that is solved, all you have to do is:
Phearps they couls try to shut down the dragon's movement with spells like Wall of Thorns... No save, no sr, just try to force your way through it... united with a simple grease spell, Grease, and given the poor flight capability of dragons, it should stay put for some rounds. Assay spell resistance shoud help immensely, letting you bypass his resistance with no trouble. A split ray Ray of Exaustion would put him at Exausted, if he makes all his saves, bringing his dex down to 4. As it was said before: Dispel Him! once you have him exausted, counterspelled with a caster, emptied thanks to various enervations, you just have to finish him.
an ancient black will easily make the check to force its way through a wall of thorns, and has a +17 reflex save for grease
if you're trying to limit it's movement you would be better advised to use solid/freezing fog and wall of force, etc
You should be prepared for a long battle. Dragons are not known for stupidity, and have great maneuverability. If the battle turns against it, it might fly or teleport away, to return fully healed from a cache of magic items somewhere else, and freshly buffed...
I would do this if I were a dragon. Heck, I would have done this ten times over already with other adventurers if I were Ancient!
Maybe you should wait for it to leave the place for snack or the casual fly around the swamp tour and clean all nasty traps that might wait for you.
Keep also in mind that a dragon this old can easily have dominated or enslaved some thugs to do his dirty work and test it's ambusher's defenses.
An anciend black dragon has spell resistance 25. Keep that in mind when you select your spells.
Control Water is your friend. There will be some water around the place, for sure.
Red Tide (Spell Compendium) is a nice spell. Even if the dragon makes his save (like to happen) he still becomes sickened (light debuff) and prone. That's a good thing if your melee characters need time to get into close positions.
Dispell it really fast and of course protect yourself against acid!
Healing potions ain't a good idea, because it can easily taint the flavor ;)
Generelly speaking I would focus on protection for my group and then set the battlefield so he can't move or fly (if it's lair has that high a ceiling, you can shorten the distance by wall of force).
Summon some nasty critters to assist you and start debuffing the dragon.
Keep in mind that your melee guys will probably need at some point healing, so either they need to retreat or your healer needs to go forth - and an ancient black dragon has got reach.
Solid fog is an excellent spell for slowing movement and for cutting down the dragon's ability to breath weapon you and fly off. You can ready an action to cast it on his squares when he is close and make a spell battle of it for a couple rounds.
I don't think anyone has mentioned Ray of Enfeeblement yet, but a -5 penalty to attacks and damage is nice.
Basically target his touch AC, which is probably 3 or 4 max, however you can. Orbs spells do this nicely.
Lastly, Freedom of Movement is a huge buff. He can grapple people to death very quickly.
Enervation would partially cripple his spellcasting, which might make a big difference.
Oh - btw - in honor of Gary Gygax our DM named the dragon Xagygyrag
And no the DM didn't and would never tell us the build ahead of time heh.This is a dragon in Argonesson and he is not likely to come out of his cave. We do not have an option to leave and come back - there is a legend that says those who go there once can never come back - we don't want to test this legend out.
My DM will play by the rules (he honestly never cheats) and will only use the books displayed. We can't use energy immunity
I was thinking of ways to drain his dex/wis down to 0 and that would be the finishing touch. Our mage has necromancy as a banned school so only our warforged can use those (UMD) type of spells. Then whatever the druids/ cleric (4th level spells for the cleric) can do.
We didn't encounter water our first time in there so that should not be a problem. We found, the first time, two auras (we think greater mage armor and shield) so we will lay on the GDMs. And all of us have at least one ring of counterspells with GDM or GM in it.
We don't plan on meleeing it since that requires healers behind the melee. So if the paladin/cleric and the warforged go melee it would need the two druids to stay behind and heal instead of doing their damage spells.
We were going to do seed of acorn - and the dm ruled the splash damage will affect the dragon also (it gets a save for that damage).
The orbs are a great and our mage is 15th level so the cap is his level anyhow.
We are going to use dimensional anchor to prevent him from using dim door (he used it before so we are sure he has an item for that)
Ray of Dizziness? It keeps him from making a full attack, which means his most dangerous attack will be the breath weapon, and you should all have Protection from Energy [acid] or Energy Immunity [acid] (from the Cleric or Druids) if you know you're going to go fight a black dragon.
You might want to see about grabbing a scroll of Hide from Dragons for the Alienist-- either a Wizard scroll to cast the spell straight off of it, or a Bard or Assassin scroll if he wants to copy and prepare it. Sure, he'll notice you as soon as you attack, but you can surround him first, cast a few detection spells (being careful that they don't qualify as "attacks"), and then get a surprise round.
1. Dispel the Dragon's buffs, and keep them dispelled.
2. Prevent the dragon from being a melee threat by hindering movement, increasing defense and/or strong debuffing. There are several ways to accomplish this, as detailed by others.
3. Get energy resistance to acid. Or high reflex save + Evasion. Since we are avoiding most of the "easy win buttons" (Shivering Touch, I'm looking at you), the battle will likely drag out long enough for the dragon to fire multiple breaths.
Result: Forcing the dragon into a spell battle against 3 casters of similar caster level is making the dragon fight a battle it cannot win, since it will be fighting you on your strengths and not its own.
Oh... My guess is he doesn't necessarily have dimension door as an item... he probably casts it as a sorcerer. But if he is giving you trouble because of items... well... as much as I hate the spell, when I'm fighting a dragon, I usually assume that it has all kinds of goodies and carry a backup scroll of MDJ, just in case. The loot from his body isn't as good, but he's got a freaking HOARD, so no big deal.
In past dragon fights, I've found that the necromancy debuffing rays are worth so much, you should seriously consider having your warforged UMD them.
I think they all allow Spell Resistance, which means they'll probably fail if used from a scroll or wand.
Ideally to be used if the dragon manages to grapple one of you, then some randomly summoned monster can be used as a decoy.
Be prepared that his breath weapon may be greatly enhanced. It can last several rounds, or quickened while the dragon melees. Only drawback is the increased time he can use his breath weapon again.
So if you can't become immune vs acid, try to avoid it (evasion), scatter so the dragon can't hit more than one at a time, or use readied actions to counter his breath by spells.
Good luck and please let us know how the fight went. I'm quite curious
So my group is going to be fighting a black dragon wyrm (ancient) in its lair. Our DM is very smart, and historically has been able to whoop us (without cheating and going outside the core) with NPCs 3-5 levels lower then us.
this stacks the odds in the dragons favor to begin with ..... you may want to use some Divination Spells first.... then Scout out the area before you even start.... you dont know what minions the dragon may have.... it may have the feat: Leadership... then you are in deep stuff
know your enemy before you attack... or he will acquaint himself to you much better when he does attack... and you will have silly looks on your faces, before they melt off(kind of Surprise/horror)
:D
this stacks the odds in the dragons favor to begin with ..... you may want to use some Divination Spells first.... then Scout out the area before you even start.... you dont know what minions the dragon may have.... it may have the feat: Leadership... then you are in deep stuff
know your enemy before you attack... or he will acquaint himself to you much better when he does attack... and you will have silly looks on your faces, before they melt off(kind of Surprise/horror)
:D
Honestly, the best scouts are Undead. Use the spell from BoVD that lets you see from its PoV, and then have it go in so you know exactly what you are up against. This bypasses many Scrying defenses, and is a good way to gauge what you are up against. Get a big, nasty undead with it though, as you will want to cause a little damage while you are scouting it out. This tactic is effective even when you are Rope Tricking, so send it out a day or two before you plan on attacking to get the maximum benefit out of the dead bastard.
:D
good idea
:D
Points if the undead is a Suicide Bomber!
you know it is an Ancient Black Dragon(801–1,000 years old).... so you Know it has :
Str 33.... unbuffed
BAB/Grapple +31/+50
Attack bonus +40
Hit dice 31d12+186 (387)
Huge 15 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. with bite)
Full Attack@ +40 to hit
Bite 2d8, 2 Claws 2d6,2 Wings 1d8, tail Slap 2d6, Crush 2d8
* A dragon’s bite attack has reach as if the creature were one size category larger. All other attacks are made with the standard reach for the dragon’s size.
Bite: Bite attacks deal the indicated damage plus the dragon’s Strength bonus. A dragon also can use its bite to snatch opponents if it has the Snatch feat.
Claw: Claw attacks deal the indicated damage plus 1/2 the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). The dragon also can use its claws to snatch opponents if it has the Snatch feat. Claw attacks are secondary attacks, requiring a –5 penalty on the attack roll. (Many dragons choose the Multiattack feat to lessen this penalty to –2).
Wing: The dragon can slam opponents with its wings, even when flying. Wing attacks deal the indicated damage plus 1/2 the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down) and are treated as secondary attacks.
Tail Slap: The dragon can slap one opponent each round with its tail. A tail slap deals the indicated damage plus 1-1/2 times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down) and is treated as a secondary attack.
Crush (Ex):This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents).
A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape.
A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1-1/2 times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down).
it could have the following feats:
RapidStrike(Claws)
RapidStrike(wings)
Improved natural Attack(bite)
Improved natural Attack(Claws)
Improved natural Attack(wings)
Improved Rapid Strike(Claws)
Improved Rapid Strike(wings)
this will boost damage, and give several additional attacks
you said your DM was smart ..... will he think of things like this.... What if the dragon uses polymorph.... into a small humanoid form.... leaves the lair... and Waits for you on the outside... when you try to leave with all of his stuff?
:D
Points if the undead is a Suicide Bomber!
LOL... what's that crummy necromancy spell that makes you explode when you die? :D :D :D
LOL... what's that crummy necromancy spell that makes you explode when you die? :D :D :D
Try the Destructive Retribution feat. All your Skeletons can now be called Ackmed!
I'm contemplating playing a necromancer, so that may be a fun strategy to use...
~Bowen
Is that one from Libris Mortis?
I'm contemplating playing a necromancer, so that may be a fun strategy to use...
~Bowen
Yes, it is. The Necromancy spell the above poster was thinking of is personal-range only, so it is crap.
(if i remember correctly it also can't hear you)
Ray
Thank you for all the great help. Some notes:
We have been in it's lair and the only minions nearby are scared to go near the dragon (the dragon will kill them for letting us get in the lair). We realize the dragon is confident that we are puny (he let us walk the first time) - but we are sure he will be more buffed the second time.
The dragon probably has around 600 HP (our DM gives us lots of buffs so does the same for his NPCs.) We all have at least 1/2 hp per hit die, we have +4 to all stats, +touch ac, deflection ac, etc (our dm hates wasting time on common long term debuffs so he gave this to us as a perm bonus... so there is no point for us to cast owls wisdom on the group).
This game will be played on march 22/23 (sat/sun) - but i will definitely post the results of the game - and after the game the DM will most likely give us the dragon build.
For those of you who are aware (or view enworld) - our group can be found in the story hour. Our story is one of the most read story hours (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161697&page=1&pp=30) spanning a nearly 3 year campaign.
Again, thank you
There is a spell in the spell compendium that makes you specifically invisible to dragons, and this bypasses the trueseeing ability they have. Down side is as soon as you agro, it breaks (possibly for the entire party) but if it is alone then you have all the time in the world to sneak up and set yourselves up for the kill.
(if i remember correctly it also can't hear you)
Ray
World of warcraft player :D
or use readied actions to counter his breath by spells.
That won't work. Supernatural abilities can't be disrupted. (Unless your spell kills the dragon... in which case you should've done that on your own turn anyway.)
There is a spell in the spell compendium that makes you specifically invisible to dragons, and this bypasses the trueseeing ability they have. Down side is as soon as you agro, it breaks (possibly for the entire party) but if it is alone then you have all the time in the world to sneak up and set yourselves up for the kill.
(if i remember correctly it also can't hear you)
Ray
Yes. It's called Hide from Dragons. I mentioned it already. (I don't know if it works against True Seeing, but the Dragon won't have that up all the time, and HfD has a pretty good duration.)
That won't work. Supernatural abilities can't be disrupted. (Unless your spell kills the dragon... in which case you should've done that on your own turn anyway.)
You could ready an action to cast a Wall spell in front of the dragon to block its breath. :D
You could ready an action to cast a Wall spell in front of the dragon to block its breath. :D
Ohh, nice.
The only player able to hit the dragon (me). The wizard in our group spent three rounds casting GDMs and kept failing most of his rolls (he needed like an 7+ and kept rolling 2's and 1's against the 15 enhancements).
The dragon would then focus on me (paladin) and slapped on two enervates. So basically he could one round my character. They would ready heals but still. Usually two of the four hits would make it (first, and haste attack) while the other two would miss. The dragon had heavy fortification so crits almost never made it. The dragon seemed to bypass my cloak of displacement (oh the DM rules the cloak affects allies trying to affect you also - like healing) and medium fortification.
Finally the dragon threw up a wall of force between my character & the druid, and the rest of the group. At this point the wizard offered my character and him (we are both dragon marked) as a sacrifice if he let the others go. So my paladin is dead, (sacrificed), and the mage will be soon (OOC trying to convince them to teleport out but the wizard refuses and says his word is his bond - meh).
Anyhow - the full story hour is not posted (story hour on en world is a two-three sessions behind) but feel free to go check it out sometime to see the nicely written version of it.
Probably what will happen: My character and mage will be brought back (long story but there are clones of them). My character loses all his magic items - but the DM is fairly generous about that so I will get them all back except his intelligent sword (not sure what he will do for that). The wizard and me will contemplate vengeance and come back in 2 levels to kill Xagyrgyrag - and my paladin will have black dragon scale full plate armor
anyways, tough luck for you.
Not to mention most dragons I've seen keep a contingent true res or have a Sacrulum...
Heal (that was the clincher)
Wall of force (we didn't have disintegrate)
Hitting pretty much most of the time (90%)
Mage not being able to effectively remove the dragons buffs (this thing had 48+ AC) - especially mage armor
Clinging breath with admixture breath (we thought it had acid - it put cold on us)
We had a series of really bad rolls. As I said, of the three melee - I was the only one able to hit it. The mage was ineffective due to terrible rolls, both druids were working on healing me, and the scoutish character couldn't do much.
Our DM is smart and knows what to do and how to play.
A wyrm Dragon could have been a lot tougher than this...
Ow well, good luck with the rest of the campaign
Unfortunately Black, Green, and White do not so some of my normal tricks wouldn't work with them.
Well some of the spells it cast (that i remember) in battle:
Heal (that was the clincher)
Wall of force (we didn't have disintegrate)
Hitting pretty much most of the time (90%)
Mage not being able to effectively remove the dragons buffs (this thing had 48+ AC) - especially mage armor
Clinging breath with admixture breath (we thought it had acid - it put cold on us)
We had a series of really bad rolls. As I said, of the three melee - I was the only one able to hit it. The mage was ineffective due to terrible rolls, both druids were working on healing me, and the scoutish character couldn't do much.
Our DM is smart and knows what to do and how to play.
It came down to the luck of the fight. Had those Dispels hit, it would have been in serious trouble.
it's not supposed to have a high CL, and it's not suppose to be able to cast heal.
Nothing in the draconomicon, core books, eberron books or even an item that will allow it to cast heal?
It probbaly had the core sorcerer casting (13th level) + a few extra levels of sorcerer which stck
1. Whatever that spell is in the PHB that prevents you from teleporting away
2. Wall of Force behind the dragon
3. Cloudkill on dragon followed immediately after by another Wall of Force in front of the dragon
This worked because there were two wizards in the party who were able to time things exactly right. Also they were careful not to tip their hands to me (the DM) to let me know what they were planning. Kinda underhanded as I wouldn't have had the dragon act on OOC knowledge, but it's something to consider.
The only hope the dragon (or anything else) really has is to dispel the spell preventing it from teleporting away. However your level is higher than its so there is a good chance it will fail. Just to be sure it's worth throwing two of the things on him, though.
- Ron ^*^
It seems the bad-luck wizard is "responsible" for this distinct defeat. Next time (unless the ends as dragon dinner, too) let him concentrate on effects that don't need to overcome some special thing the dragon may have by rolling dices.
Let him shape the territory so the dragon won't fly by or deny the dragon a direct line to several members of your party by changing the underground (raising rocks for example).
Let him save his actions to indirectly dispel the dragons breath weapon of spells like enervation. Wall of Force is a no brainer.
After that he's still able to try some dispells.
As far as I understand the dragon mechanic, as a sorcerer the dragon is unable to change his spell selection. So you know what he's able to cast (of course there maybe items or scrolls). Prepare for enervating, death effects.
The dragon likes to focus on a single party member? Good, choose whom he can attack by making the rest invisible or waiting outside with clairaudience active ready to hustle inside.
and most important. If your strategy doesn't work from the start, you should really consider tactical retreat and change your plans while you can. There is no need to enforce a tactic that has failed and risk your skin.
As I mentioned... MDJ for those times when you just can't dispel his buffs. You only need it once. And the PHBII spell that prevents teleportation is Dimensional Anchor... it's a ray, but I think they might get a save.
IIRC, there's an area version of that spell that doesn't allow a save.
:D
World of warcraft player :D
Eve-Online actually, but yes, the lame lingo goes with any mmo ;)