Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FaleenaGreywind Jul 14, 2011 0:36:30	Hi,      Still playing 3.5 here and my party is up to 28th level.  Thing is we never really got into character optimization builds.  We'd like to "rebuid" our party characters with OC builds in mind.  I've looked around the forums for guidance and maybe some examples that pertain to our characters.  The forums are vast to say the least and I thank you all for it.  Maybe I'll start by tossing this character into the fray, just the details on the levels chosen over our gaming period of about three years.  Thing is we transitioned from 2ed to 3.5 and at the time were using Bladesingers.  On the turnover and up to now this one character looks like this: Level: 28th Fighter: 6th Bladesinger: 9th Warmage: 13th BAB: 17/12/7/2      I know this may sound dumb or look dumb compared to most posts here but we'd really like to see if we can optimize the original intent for the Bladesinger and their ability to cast powerful spells.  Of course damage dealing is a must too. Can anyone help? Thank you!
#2 Krusk Jul 14, 2011 9:46:05	If you can do a total rebuild, and mostly just want a mage who casts spells and fights in melee consider Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/ Bladesinger 1 /Abjurant Champion 5 (Complete mage)/Fighter(This should be some prestige class with full BAB) 7/Initiate of the sevenfold veil 7/Master Specialist 1 BAB- 18  Wizard CL- 19 (As you level finish out master specialist) Int to AC Note I didn't check feats. You may have some trouble, If you do, move the other fighter levels earlier. The goal is +16BAB by level 20. when BAB Stops increasing. (You want 4 attacks per round)  or Hexblade 2/Paladin 4/Sorcerer4/Abjurant Champ 5/Spellsword 1/ sevenfold veil 7/ X3 BAB - 16 (the magic minimum number) Sorcerer CL - 20 Cha to saves  Cha to saves vs spells (Stacks) I like 7 fold veil because it is crazy good, and because the idea of surrounding yourself in shields feels very Gish. Also, consider reading this handbook for suggestions. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786.0
#3 Maat_Mons Jul 14, 2011 14:04:41	What sources are available to you? If you like warmage, you might like to play a psion (kineticist). A slayer build would be pretty easy. Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona) is a feat that would allow you to add your slayer levels to your monk levels to determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows, and unarmed strike damage. Whirling steel strike (Eberron Campaign Setting) is a feat that lets you use a longsword as a monk weapon, so you can flurry with it. Carmendine monk (Champions of Valor) or kung fu genius (Dragon Compendium) would allow you to use int instead of wis to AC. Chaos monk (Dragon 335) is likely more fitting for you than standard monk. Here are my preferred elven subraces: Arctic Elf: +2 dex, -2 str (Unearthed Arcana 9) Desert Elf: +2 dex, -2 str (Unearthed Arcana 12) Painted Elf: +2 dex, -2 int (Sandstorm 42) Snow Elf: +2 dex, -2 cha (Frostburn 34) Wild Elf: +2 dex, -2 int (Monster Manual 104)
#4 ah_andras Jul 14, 2011 20:35:51	Would you consider Duskblade (PHII) instead of Fighter/Warmage/Blade Singer? Duskblade 20/Bladesinger 8 (skills to qualify will hurt (8 ranks/16sp), but you get a bonus feat from DB); If a Half Elf you could blow a couple feats on Human Heritage (+4sp) and Able Learner (cross class skills cost 1sp/rank) to help (see Races of Destiny). Spell power from DB will help offset the loss of caster levels from BS. Full BAB/Fort/Will; CL24+5vs SR; Quicken 5 spells per day free (one has to be 4th level or less); Full attack channelling; Int to AC in Light Armor, or wear heavy armor with no ASF If a half elf consider Swashbuckler 3, Duskblade 15, Blade Singer 10 +Int to damage, +Int to ac, CL 20, +5 vs SR, quicken 4/day free
#5 dmverdandi Jul 15, 2011 0:08:21	Hi,      Still playing 3.5 here and my party is up to 28th level.  Thing is we never really got into character optimization builds.  We'd like to "rebuid" our party characters with OC builds in mind.  I've looked around the forums for guidance and maybe some examples that pertain to our characters.  The forums are vast to say the least and I thank you all for it.  Maybe I'll start by tossing this character into the fray, just the details on the levels chosen over our gaming period of about three years.  Thing is we transitioned from 2ed to 3.5 and at the time were using Bladesingers.  On the turnover and up to now this one character looks like this: Level: 28th Fighter: 6th Bladesinger: 9th Warmage: 13th BAB: 17/12/7/2      I know this may sound dumb or look dumb compared to most posts here but we'd really like to see if we can optimize the original intent for the Bladesinger and their ability to cast powerful spells.  Of course damage dealing is a must too. Can anyone help? Thank you! I ask this of nearly everyone I give advice to... Are you married to that idea? The whole build is sub-optimal. The whole thing. There are much better ways for you to get the theme across that you want, without being so... unoptimal. Here are the problems. 1. You took too many levels in fighter. 2. Bladesinger gives up 5 levels for: Int to ac in no armor, one use of quicken spell, an extra attack on a FULL attack, and light armor while casting. 3. Using warmage in this build. They cast with charisma. And are kind of MAD for spellcasters. All that stinks.  If you aren't aware, there is an option called "re-training" that already exists. It allows you to rebuild your characters into a different adventuring archetype. I would dump this thing and restart from the ground up. Here is how you do it. _ Wizard 1 (eidetic, elf generalist, transmutation domain) wiz 2-4 Wiz 5 (granted domain power: war) _ Incantatrix 5 Virtuoso 8 Incantatrix 5 War weaver 5 This build exemplfies the ideal elf. Good at archery, swordplay, spellcasting, and music.  Eidetic is from dragon 357. It is a feat which allows you to prepare spells by memory alone. Instead of paying for pages and ink, you pay for incense to help meditation.  It isn't a gish, but through use of spellcasting is better. No loss in caster level, can learn all wizard spells, and can use metamagic far cheeper than most. Also has bardic music and spellweaving. Buff this guy to high heaven with an item familiar for incantatrix. And use weapon-like spells. The weakness of a gish is choosing between attacking with a weapon, or using a spell. With those, you get both. Spellcasters conpendium and PHB2 have some SICK spells.
#6 New-Shadow Jul 18, 2011 20:47:56	As DMVerdandi first asked, are you married to any one part of the build?  My other questions from there are: what race are you, what alingment are you, and what is your reason for playing a Warmage?  Now I'm not really familiar with any of the older versions of D&D, so could you tell me what an older Bladesinger gets?  What books are you working with?  Depending on your answers, my idea is to drop Bladesinger entirely, but not Warmage.  Why you might ask?  Simple, Warmages know all their spells at a given level, though the selections on the list aren't the greatest.  The build is easier as a human, but I suppose you could be an elf or a gnome if that's what you prefer. The other part of this hypothetical build is a class from the Dragonlance Setting sourcebook Bestiary of Kyrnn known as Ambient Tempest.  For the price of either 2 Spell Focus feats, Extend spell, Enlarge spell, Widen spell and/or one other feat that escapes me, plus either a spell-like or Su ability (or two other feats on the list, which you really don't need to do, given the Reserve Feats (which are supernatural abilities) in Complete Mage and the various feats in Complete Arcane that provide 3 different 1/day spell-likes), as well as the ability to spontaniously cast 3rd level arcane or divine spells w/out the aid of a diety, plus 5-8 ranks in Know. Arcana, this, with DM permission, gives you the ability to switch out Warmage spells you don't want for Wiz/Sorc that you do (like the best direct damage spells in the game(there is a list of those on these boards somewhere), true seeing, mages' disjunction, etc.).  It has a d4 HD and poor BAB, but all this greatly outways those drawbacks, right? Another couple of PrCs you should look into are the Dragonslayer (found in Draconomicon) and Swiftblade ( found here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20...  ) .  All in all the build should look like this pre-epic. Pre-epic using human:  Warmage 6/Ambient Tempest 4/Dragonslayer 5/Swiftblade 5 Lv. 1  Spell focus (Evo., Conj.) Lv. 3  Dodge (or any feat that counts as dodge) Lv. 6  Storm bolt (or any other feat that gives Su or Sp abilities) Lv. 9  Iron will Lv. 12 Mobility Lv. 15 Maximize spell Lv. 18 Combat Casting As you can see, most feats are prereq's for PrC's, but you eliminate 2 big Gish weaknesses (poor Fort. and Ref.) in the process.  Yes you lose 5 CL's pre-epic (A.B. loses a CL at 1st)...but that's what Abj. Champ is for post epic for the first 5 levels.  After that, finish out the PrC's, get Warmage to 10, and go after these PrC's if your DM okays' them, in this order: Rainbow Servant (Complete Divine, see many the Warmage threads on why this is a good idea), Sacred Exorcist (the Defenders of the Faith version is better in my opinion, but the C.D. version is good too), and Sovereign Speaker (Free Domain every level).  Hope that helps.