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Bone Creature

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
militantjay
Aug 20, 2008 12:00:33 Bone Creature from BOVD.

Type of creature that retains it's casting abilities and ability scores. Doesn't say that it loses all memory of life before undeath.

No LA listed on it.

Any problem with a character suiciding and having someone of the appropriate level cast this upon them after death to become a skeleton with all it's previous class abilities, the undead traits, and cold immunity?

No XP cost other than that entailed in the spell cast, and a scroll is pretty cheap and is listed in the DMG.

Thoughts?
#2
deathlessjuan
Aug 20, 2008 13:41:53 There is no LA listed because the template was not meant to be used for player characters.

However, I have played two characters with this template and the DM decided a +1 LA would suffice. I would actually push for a +2 LA if I had been the DM, but that is my opinion.
#3
dragonamedrake
Aug 20, 2008 14:20:23
There is no LA listed because the template was not meant to be used for player characters.

However, I have played two characters with this template and the DM decided a +1 LA would suffice. I would actually push for a +2 LA if I had been the DM, but that is my opinion.

Well its a template that can be added to a base creature so I would say it WAS meant to be a playable template by players. If what your saying is true then DM's cant use it in games either because it doesnt give a CR adjustment. I would assume they forgot to put the LA/CR adjustment at the bottom.

If it were me DMing I would put it at least at a +2 LA. Undead is 1, Flight is 1, and his immunities are one... however compared to the overall power of the Template it looks to be about a +2. Talk it over with your DM and see what he thinks. As for his memories, I would have to go with he keeps them. The template retains all Special Abilities, skills, proficiences, and statistics so I would think that includes memories.

I got to ask though Militantjay... this have anything to do with an Undead Cohort lol?
#4
dragonamedrake
Aug 20, 2008 14:25:36 Crap i just looked at it again. It doesnt give flight, it just allows the base creature to retain the ability to fly if it had it before hand. I would still stick with a +2 hit though because of Undead, Immunities, Natural Armor. And Weapon Finess for free might I add.

But without flight a DM might go with a +1... expecially if you take away the Natural Armor bonus and the free feat.
#5
phaedrusxy
Aug 20, 2008 16:17:14 It's only a bit better than Necropolitan, which is LA +0 but causes you to lose a level. I'd say its about +1.
#6
jaronk
Aug 20, 2008 16:44:23 IIRC it was errataed to +1LA. Not bad if a Dread Necromancer with Corpse Crafter turns you into one in a Desecrated area... D12+6 HP/HD ain't bad at all!

JaronK
#7
deathlessjuan
Aug 20, 2008 17:52:54 Ooohhh, JaronK. Thanks for that bit of information. I had no idea it had been errata-ed
#8
cycada
Aug 20, 2008 18:09:46 Can you cite the source of the errata? I checked the wizards homesite archives and couldn't find the BOVD among books that have errata written for them.

For those of us who's DMs need official write-ups to use a certain thing, the actual source would be very helpful.

Thanks :D

~Cy
#9
militantjay
Aug 21, 2008 8:27:09 Actually the plan is to have a DN with Corpsecrafter, and maybe one or two other feats out of LM, raise my character in a desecrated area. I was already planning that part lol. If I could work out how to do it as a Contingency spell (I know it won't affect that level of spell) or something like that, I could get my own bonuses as a DN applied to myself. lol

Actually, Necropolitan only causes you go lose 1000 exp. My original plan was to do something like that.

I've got 25 in leadership currently. If all those followers, including many many clerics and wizards, can't raise me as at LEAST a necropolitan, then I need a new death cult. lol
#10
jaronk
Aug 21, 2008 10:34:57 I said "IIRC" because I can't find it, I just think I heard it once. If it helps, there's this: http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/6197 which at least mentions it (though it's talking about CR, not LA, and LAs are traditionally either equal to or greater than CR bumps for templates). I could swear I've seen better information than that somewhere though.

JaronK
#11
militantjay
Aug 21, 2008 11:49:17 Thanks for reference!
#12
phaedrusxy
Aug 21, 2008 11:58:43
If I could work out how to do it as a Contingency spell (I know it won't affect that level of spell) or something like that, I could get my own bonuses as a DN applied to myself. lol

Contingency can affect up to 6th level spells. Create Undead is 6th level.
#13
militantjay
Aug 21, 2008 15:37:20 AFB when I said that. Sweet!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 militantjay Aug 20, 2008 12:00:33	Bone Creature from BOVD. Type of creature that retains it's casting abilities and ability scores. Doesn't say that it loses all memory of life before undeath. No LA listed on it. Any problem with a character suiciding and having someone of the appropriate level cast this upon them after death to become a skeleton with all it's previous class abilities, the undead traits, and cold immunity? No XP cost other than that entailed in the spell cast, and a scroll is pretty cheap and is listed in the DMG. Thoughts?
#2 deathlessjuan Aug 20, 2008 13:41:53	There is no LA listed because the template was not meant to be used for player characters. However, I have played two characters with this template and the DM decided a +1 LA would suffice. I would actually push for a +2 LA if I had been the DM, but that is my opinion.
#3 dragonamedrake Aug 20, 2008 14:20:23	There is no LA listed because the template was not meant to be used for player characters. However, I have played two characters with this template and the DM decided a +1 LA would suffice. I would actually push for a +2 LA if I had been the DM, but that is my opinion. Well its a template that can be added to a base creature so I would say it WAS meant to be a playable template by players. If what your saying is true then DM's cant use it in games either because it doesnt give a CR adjustment. I would assume they forgot to put the LA/CR adjustment at the bottom. If it were me DMing I would put it at least at a +2 LA. Undead is 1, Flight is 1, and his immunities are one... however compared to the overall power of the Template it looks to be about a +2. Talk it over with your DM and see what he thinks. As for his memories, I would have to go with he keeps them. The template retains all Special Abilities, skills, proficiences, and statistics so I would think that includes memories. I got to ask though Militantjay... this have anything to do with an Undead Cohort lol?
#4 dragonamedrake Aug 20, 2008 14:25:36	Crap i just looked at it again. It doesnt give flight, it just allows the base creature to retain the ability to fly if it had it before hand. I would still stick with a +2 hit though because of Undead, Immunities, Natural Armor. And Weapon Finess for free might I add. But without flight a DM might go with a +1... expecially if you take away the Natural Armor bonus and the free feat.
#5 phaedrusxy Aug 20, 2008 16:17:14	It's only a bit better than Necropolitan, which is LA +0 but causes you to lose a level. I'd say its about +1.
#6 jaronk Aug 20, 2008 16:44:23	IIRC it was errataed to +1LA. Not bad if a Dread Necromancer with Corpse Crafter turns you into one in a Desecrated area... D12+6 HP/HD ain't bad at all! JaronK
#7 deathlessjuan Aug 20, 2008 17:52:54	Ooohhh, JaronK. Thanks for that bit of information. I had no idea it had been errata-ed
#8 cycada Aug 20, 2008 18:09:46	Can you cite the source of the errata? I checked the wizards homesite archives and couldn't find the BOVD among books that have errata written for them. For those of us who's DMs need official write-ups to use a certain thing, the actual source would be very helpful. Thanks :D ~Cy
#9 militantjay Aug 21, 2008 8:27:09	Actually the plan is to have a DN with Corpsecrafter, and maybe one or two other feats out of LM, raise my character in a desecrated area. I was already planning that part lol. If I could work out how to do it as a Contingency spell (I know it won't affect that level of spell) or something like that, I could get my own bonuses as a DN applied to myself. lol Actually, Necropolitan only causes you go lose 1000 exp. My original plan was to do something like that. I've got 25 in leadership currently. If all those followers, including many many clerics and wizards, can't raise me as at LEAST a necropolitan, then I need a new death cult. lol
#10 jaronk Aug 21, 2008 10:34:57	I said "IIRC" because I can't find it, I just think I heard it once. If it helps, there's this: http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/6197 which at least mentions it (though it's talking about CR, not LA, and LAs are traditionally either equal to or greater than CR bumps for templates). I could swear I've seen better information than that somewhere though. JaronK
#11 militantjay Aug 21, 2008 11:49:17	Thanks for reference!
#12 phaedrusxy Aug 21, 2008 11:58:43	If I could work out how to do it as a Contingency spell (I know it won't affect that level of spell) or something like that, I could get my own bonuses as a DN applied to myself. lol Contingency can affect up to 6th level spells. Create Undead is 6th level.
#13 militantjay Aug 21, 2008 15:37:20	AFB when I said that. Sweet!