I need help fleshing out a boomerang throwing gish build, and was hoping someone might have some insight on the topic. My primary goal is to have an INT based caster (psion, erudite, beguiler, wu jen, or wizard) that can throw boomerangs really well. I recognize that there are more focused build options for both throwing and casting, but desire to create the most effective blend of the two that is possible. Below I will list out what I have so far, as well as build rules.
Rules:
Pathfinder rules
All 3.5 published material available
Dragon magazines NOT allowed, Dragon Compendium OK
Web enhancements for specific published material is also available
25pt buy
Starting level – 3rd
No templates, no level adjust races
Unearthed Arcana options are open
Build Goals:
7th level spells or higher
BAB +16
Versatility in combat tactics (game is primarily dungeon crawl, so more than just one combat trick will be required to keep it entertaining, at least for me)
Good team player (boomerang daze helps with this, as should spellcasting)
Discarded Concepts:
CHA and WIS based casters, divine casters (I’m tired of them thematically, though I’m sure they could work well.)
Bloodstorm Blade (Too much CL loss for too little result; if I were doing this I’d do a more focused build based on 30+ attacks a round and stacking bonus dmg. If people have a good way of plugging this in I’d be interested however.)
Thoughts So Far…
Stats:
12 (or 14) STR
14 (or 12) CON
17 DEX
17 INT
7 WIS
7 CHA
Race Selection:
Either Halfling from Talenta or Drow from Xen’Drik (using the pathfinder base drow). I’m open to other suggestions here, those just seemed useful b/c they effectively give a free exotic weapon feat (characters from those regions count the appropriate weapon as Martial rather than Exotic). The Dex mod is also nice, though the charisma boost is less than ideal. Overall Drow seems most appealing currently.
Feats:
Boomerang Daze (RoE)
Boomerang Ricochet (RoE)
Deadly Aim (PF)
Weapon Focus
PBS
Precise Shot
Dead Eye (Drag.Comp.)
Arcane Strike (CW)
Combat Casting
Neraph Throw (Planar H.)
TWF Tree
Classes:
Fighter 1-2 (drow fighter sub if playing drow)
And/or
Maneuver User 1-3
Master Thrower 1-3 (pick up Two w/One Blow and possibly Trip Shot tricks; the touch attack one doesn’t work with power attack in pathfinder rules [read final lines of both deadly aim and power attack] so 5 lvls isn’t necessary)
Abjurant Champion 5 or Illithid slayer 10
Other stuff (Spellsword, Knight Phantom, or Eldritch Knight if going arcane; not a clue for psionic. I’m even open to oddball stuff like incarnum use or low BAB classes if it forwards the ultimate goals of the build)
This is where I get lost. I’m not sure what base classes to go with. Using a ToB class to get the base warrior pre-reqs for most of the classes seems like a good idea, and if I take Drow the 1st level fighter sub (hit and run, DU) seems pretty worthwhile. Past that… I dunno. One of the big problems the build ends up with is that without Bloodstorm Blade in there, you end up needing a haversack full of boomerangs; even if you put returning on them all, it isn’t like you can hold them all when they come back, so I’m not sure what to do there.
An alternative idea to all of this is just to be a more focused caster and rely on buffs to make up the difference. I’m amenable to this, but want to still be primarily throwing boomerangs to mess up enemies. Such a build would have a few levels of MT or BsB thrown in, a single level of maneuver user, and the rest would be quality caster classes.
Spells or Powers:
I need some real help here as well. I know spellcasters moderately well, but I’ve never used one to enhance weapon combat before, much less thrown combat. I haven’t a clue what to take outside of utility stuff.
Equipment:
What’s good as the build progresses? Unless there is a way to get super-returning qualities on the boomerangs, getting high quality boomerangs will be a problem due to expense and the above mentioned mechanical issue. Are there any magic items that help out with throwers in specific?
If you're considering playing a martial adept/arcane spellcaster, Jade Phoenix mage seems like a clear choice, even without any particular focus on thrown weapons.
If you want an Int-based spellcaster that isn't divine, that basically leaves you with wizard, beguiler, and wu jen. Given that you're already going to be down spell levels, I would probably leave beguiler out of it (plus, it doesn't have much to enhance melee or ranged combat). That leaves wizard and wu jen-- wu jen does have some nice spells, particularly giant size at 7th level, and it has a nice flavor combination with the Tome of Battle material... but you're going to have far fewer options than wizard provides when it comes to spells. I could see going either way though, particularly if your DM is open to adding additional spells to the wu jen spell list.
For the martial adept levels, I think the choice is pretty clear-- you have a high Intelligence, need base attack bonus and hit points to balance your caster levels, and you need access to schools that can benefit thrown weapons. Warblade seems like your class there.
For the build, I would probably go with Warblade 1/Wu Jen 2 to start, then Wu Jen 3/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4-- 17th level spellcasting, 17 BAB, 15 initiator level. You can substitute wizard for wu jen if you would prefer that and more or less trade levels of spellcasting out of the build as you want for special abilities or feats. Jade Phoenix Mage has very easy prerequisites, so the only major requirement is Combat Casting for Abjurant Champion, which can come in quite late or earlier to insert space to wait on your favorite maneuvers.
You could even start Warblade 1/Wu Jen 2/Warblade (or Fighter) 2/Wu Jen 1 if you would prefer more martial ability up front. In fact, given your preferred races, you may need to do that... warblade and wu jen/wizard aren't favored classes for halfling. I would recommend against drow for your class, unless your DM allows you to take the "lesser drow" option-- you're going to be hurting enough on spellcasting and BAB as it is, the drow's +2 LA isn't going to be worth it.
The key to super-returningness is Telekinetic Boomerang (CPsi). It's open only to Psychic Warrior and Kineticist, barring Expanded Knowledge, but my DM let me integrate it in an Ardent mantle (the Ardent being pretty ideal for gishes), likely the Conflict mantle ; if you want to lend an official veneer to it there's a Mind's Eye article with an Alternate Class Feature that lets you do exactly that: customize mantles with DM permission.
The second bit of homebrewing was letting Jade Phoenix Mage progress psionic manifesting... not such a long shot. I had actually refluffed it to Thunderbird Mage and changed its stated goal.
Example build: Ardent 2/Swordsage 1/Ardent +2/JPM 10/X 5 with:
Practiced Manifester: Ardent
in addition to
Boomerang Daze and the other feats you listed.
- If you really want an Int-based character, psion should serve as well.
- With a martial artist dip you'll get Telekinetic Boomerang at level 7 at the earliest... but at low levels you don't actually need super-returningness so it's not a big deal.
The key to super-returningness is Telekinetic Boomerang (CPsi).
The second bit of homebrewing was letting Jade Phoenix Mage progress psionic manifesting... not such a long shot. I had actually refluffed it to Thunderbird Mage and changed its stated goal.
- With a martial artist dip you'll get Telekinetic Boomerang at level 7 at the earliest... but at low levels you don't actually need super-returningness so it's not a big deal.
Nice power-- at some point I really do need to delve more into the psionics system. I've only really put together maybe one or two psionic characters and I've played them for less time than I spent on them.
Omen_of_Peace: THANK YOU! I thought there was a power that did that, but couldn't find it to save my life. I'm gonna see if the GM will be amenable to letting me do spell research with a Wizard to get that, and if not... Psion/Erudite it is. Probably won't be able to switch out JPM for a psionic version though, so I may just drop Maneuvers entirely, unfortunately).
sally_jones: Actually, I had those ideas as well, I'll be asking him about it, but I doubt it. He's going mostly by RAW (no substitution of lore for bardic knowledge, for example) so i don't think he's going to be cooperative there.
Anyone have ideas for psionic classes in line with the above ideas, aside from just Slayer 10? Any alternate (and good) PrC's for psi out there in the world of Eberron/Faerun?
Nice power-- at some point I really do need to delve more into the psionics system. I've only really put together maybe one or two psionic characters and I've played them for less time than I spent on them.
It's nice, but at the same time it's weird that thrown weapon users have to jump through such a complicated hoop to get what projectile/melee weapon users get for free. Admittedly thrown weapons get both range and a stat to damage from the start, but it doesn't justify their big downside AFAICS. The 4E rule seems better to me in this instance.
Anyone have ideas for psionic classes in line with the above ideas, aside from just Slayer 10? Any alternate (and good) PrC's for psi out there in the world of Eberron/Faerun?
This one is sadly easy to field. There aren't many psionic-progressing PrCs, and few are worth it.
From memory, apart the ones in the XPH, there's the Anarchic Initiate in CPsi and the Sanctified Mind in Lords of Madness. I'm a bit rusty so maybe I'm forgetting one, but overall I'm pretty sure Slayer is your best bet.
Shame about the psy prestiges, such a good system deserves more love. Was hoping eberron added more to it. Ah well, guess my thrower had some unpleasant but ultimately victorious encounters with illithids at some point
Oh, and gloves of tarnham the vigilant only actually work on melee weapons btw. Generous gm's will let you add returning to your thrown weapons... but by RAW most of the thrown weapon items/spells actually only augment or allow for thrown melee weapons (several of the spell compendium spells come to mind).