Leafing through the Book of Vile Darkness, it seemed to me that there was a spell combination in there that would allow you to kill anybody at any distance with no save (provided you were willing to be a complete evil bastard, but hey, why are you reading the BoVD if you aren't?). It works like this. Take a hapless minnion (with a weak will save). Tie this minnion down. Cast Mindrape on the minnion and imprint into their mind "you love [name of intended target] more than anybody else in the world." Cast Love's Pain on the poor minnion repetedly. Scry to make sure the target's really dead, if not, wash, rince, repeat.
My questions are a. would this work, and b. is there an easier way to do it, since you don't get Mindrape until later levels it being a 9th level spell.
Again, I don't see myself ever actually using this tactic. I usually DM, but this seemed too cheap for even the BBEG to use.
Again, I don't see myself ever actually using this tactic. I usually DM, but this seemed too cheap for even the BBEG to use.
Not if the BBEG only has one level X spell a day, so the pcs have to find him while under a time limit. Oh and he is using one of the partys family members/friends as his minion.
That is what we call a plot -especially if there is no way for the PCs to fail said will save, but they believe there is. Maybe a toned down version that deals 1 vile wis damage a day on a failed save. then say vile wisdom damage can't be healed until the source is stopped. Or something.
I seem to remember a stipulation somewhere that in the absence of the mention of a save, it goes back to yes with DC = 10 +level+modifier. and since the love spell doesn't specify if the target as one, I think it is assumed to use the spell's save dc. Again, I can't back it by RAW right now, but i'll get back to you on it.
The spell in question specifically states that the loved one doesn't get a save.
(It's indeed way too cheap to actually be used. A few maximized empowered Love's pain can kill a player at any distance and it would be hard to understand what had happened.)
Anyone care to give a brief description on what "Love's Pain" does? I kinda have a hard time following not knowing what the spell does.
Target someone with the spell. Their closest love one takes pretty standard blast spell damage, but with no range limit or save. 3rd level spell.
So yeah, this works great, and with Maximize Spell and Empower Spell (easily done by someone who can also cast Mindrape) you could one shot a Wizard pretty easily, and very few spell defenses will stop it.
JaronK
Target someone with the spell. Their closest love one takes pretty standard blast spell damage, but with no range limit or save. 3rd level spell.
So yeah, this works great, and with Maximize Spell and Empower Spell (easily done by someone who can also cast Mindrape) you could one shot a Wizard pretty easily, and very few spell defenses will stop it.
JaronK
....OUCH. I think I just found the way to make a Kira.
There's a 9th level spell from the SpC (possibly called Modify Memory). Would that be a suitable replacement for Mindrape?
Wouldn't Suggestion be enough? "I suggest you hold X as the dearest person to you"?
Wouldn't Suggestion be enough? "I suggest you hold X as the dearest person to you"?
Not really. Doesn't fall within the realm of possible Suggestions.
There's a 9th level spell from the SpC (possibly called Modify Memory). Would that be a suitable replacement for Mindrape?
Programmed Amnesia. I believe that it is the updated version of Mindrape
Programmed Amnesia. I believe that it is the updated version of Mindrape
And somehow it lost the [evil] descriptor in the transition.
I believe that it is the updated version of Mindrape
Spell Compendium doesn't say Mindrape was updated in it, so the version in BoVD is still legitimate to use.
Spell Compendium doesn't say Mindrape was updated in it, so the version in BoVD is still legitimate to use.
I checked and it turns out you're right. My mistake.
OTOH, if it's not necessary, you could certainly exploit it a whole lot. Would it actually be possible to use lower level spells/powers (i.e. hypnotism) to make them believe they love someone? What about autohypnosis?
Still, it strikes me as quite odd that it doesn't matter what the target feels about the one you cast the spell on. Thinking logically is a bad idea with D&D mechanics, but I'd suppose the two actually have to love each other.
OTOH, if it's not necessary, you could certainly exploit it a whole lot. Would it actually be possible to use lower level spells/powers (i.e. hypnotism) to make them believe they love someone? What about autohypnosis?
AH CRAP, I knew I forgot to mention autohypnosis. I thought of that earlier then forgot about it.
Since I posted, I'd like to say that this trick should be called 'Kira'.
And somehow it lost the [evil] descriptor in the transition.
I never understood why Mindrape was evil in the first place. Ask any NPC is has been used on!
surely suggestion or a dominate person would be enough to temporarily alter someones feelings... maybe there is a magic item, a cupids arrow... brb, checking MIC.
Custom item of Mindrape
Base: CL 17 x 9th Level x 2000 = 306,000gp
Charged: Base/2 = 153,000gp
1 Charge per day: Cost/(5/charges per day) = 30,600gp
Still too high for my taste sooo...
2 Charges: (Cost/50) x Charges = 1,224gp
Enjoy, I suspect that a third level character could esily afford this item. Low level assassins will be thrilled.
To add to this we need one other thing though...
Custom item of Maximized, Repeated Love's Pain
Base: CL 20 x Level 9 x 2000 = 360,000gp
Charged: Base/2 = 180,000gp
3 Charges per day: Cost/(5/charges per day) = 108,000gp
3 Charges: (Cost/50) x Charges = 6,480 gp
Total cost: 6,480 + 1,224 = 7,784gp
This gives us the ability to select a person and hit them with:
(10 x 6 x 2) x 3 points of unnamed, unsavable damage, or 360 points of damage.
Unless I'm reading it wrong, the spell resisitence applies to the target, not the loved one, so be sure to select a Commoner 1 for your conduit. Also, I'm not sure who incurs the corruption cost, so use a Necropolitan.
I'm aware that I could cut the cost even more by using a staff, however, this method can be used by a Fighter. Basically I used the all purpose method. Below is the Raito's Staff of Kira Optimization
Staff: (375 x Highest Level Spell x Caster Level) + (281.25 gp
i dont know about mindrape but ive have used loves pain as a DM to create possibly one of the most grueling and traumatising PC plot twists in my regular groups time gaming. to my girlfriends PC no less.
surely suggestion or a dominate person would be enough to temporarily alter someones feelings... maybe there is a magic item, a cupids arrow... brb, checking MIC.
The Elixer of Love might work. You'd have to combine it with some way for them to Scry on the person, or something, though.
It's like the Sudden Extend/Maximize + Mount + Power Word: Pain variant of a CO's dream's dream. BTW, that combo is from the low-level optimization thread and it's nicknamed 'Harry Potter'.
I love to see my work referenced... (off topic)