brainstorming: how to improve skill checks - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

brainstorming: how to improve skill checks

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dpskane
May 18, 2010 8:52:13 A long time ago I collected ideas of how to beat spellcraft DCs of an incantatrix. The link in the "handy links ..."-topic is dead and actually, this question can be made much more general.

Long story short: I try to recreate the knowledge of those days. Want to help?
What do I nead?
Any ideas. Any feats, spells, items, class abilities or else that, in any way, affect a skill check.
Below I will try to categorize it, but though I could look up a lot of things I would rather prefer to get them told by people who use certain feats/spells/items at least sometimes and edit my text.

Introduction

Beating skill check DCs is the main purpose of having skills at all.
Sometimes the PC can influence the skill check, e.g. altering conditions to increase his chances for climbing an object, and sometimes he can't, e.g. because he does not even know, when a skill check will be appropriate (Listen, Spot).

This topic is mostly (but not solely) about the first kind.

In some cases a player only wants to reach certain tresholds, e.g. the DC 15 Concentration check for casting defensively or certain Ride skills, also defined by fixed DCs.
In other cases the DCs are much less fix, like e.g. finding more and more powerful traps via Search.

Most players out there probably simply raise their characters' skill ranks and use them whenever their DM tells them to do so. And that's absolutely fine. But in some cases, it is invaluable to think about options. E.g. a (nonmagical) trap going off because the rogue missed the DC by 6 points with a rolled 1 - although the group's wizard has a high INT score, does not know where to put his/her skill points and by investing 2 points for buying one skill rank in Disable Device allows him/her to use Aid Another, which in most cases will succed (assuming an INT modifier of 5 then the chances are 85%) - and thus increase chances for the rogue.
I also (of course) still have the original purpose in mind: beating insanely high spellcraft DCs with an incantatrix (for those who don't know: the incantatrix can apply metamagic effects to spells that are still in effect. To do that she has to beat an DC of 18 + 3 x modified spell level. An extended mage armor is a simple 24, but a fell drained (+2), maximized (+3), persisted (+6) maw of chaos (9) is a mad DC 78 (and does not make much sense ^^).

All the stuff you should know about

Skills are (mainly) defined by a PC's skill modifier. Which is, in short, simply the skill rank, the ability bonus (or malus) and a bunch of other bonuses which a player usually denotes when he creates his character or gets a nice new item or class ability.

But as noted above, we want to find out, how to improve skill check results. In most cases this can be achieved by raising the skill modifier. But there are some other options as well. So finally I stop talking junk.

A) Raising skill ranks

Leveling, he obvious thing. Getting levels also allows you to raise your skill ranks. Remember that once a skill becomes a class skill for you, it is always a class skill and thus you can raise it to 3 + your character level. However, the amount of points you have to invest depend on the class you take at the specific level-up.

Able learner [Feat]: This is a feat for humans and doppelganger and must be taken at first level. It decreases the skill point cost for all skill ranks bought to 1, i.e. cross-class skills cost the same as class-skills.

I think that there actually was some absolutely strange way of how to increase the max ranks to more than 3+Level, but I can't remember. Does someone know?

B) Skill modifications

Items.
In the DMG an awful lot of items is listed, which grant bonuses to skills. Roughly 80% of all skills are served there. And, assuming a generous DM, one can create/buy items for every skill available. AFAIK all bonuses are competence bonuses.

(Masterwork) Tools: PHB 129ff: Most of them allow +2 circumstance bonuses to specific skills or even imply penalties if the PC does not use them. A general entry called "Masterwork Tool" says that such items can be created for just about any skill. This obviously is in the DM's decision.

Spells.
Alter Self: Transforming into races with racial skill bonuses do provide these skill bonuses also to you. The bonus skill point a human gets with each level is not a racial skill bonus.

Master's Touch (PHB2, brd 2, clc 2, sor/wiz 2): +4 insight bonus on one single skill check being done in one single round.

Divine Insight (SC, clc 2, pal 2): +5+CL (max 15) insight bonus to one single skill check

Appraising Touch (SC, brd 1, sor/wiz 1): +10 insight bonus on appraise. Lasts for hours!

Insightfull Feint (SC, ass 1, sor/wiz 1): +10 insight bonus to next feint attack

Instant Locksmith (SC, ass 1, sor/wiz 1): +2 insight bonus on Disable Device or Open Lock (the check is done as a free action, the spell as a swift)

Instant Search: Same as above, but to a Search check.

Feats.
PHB Feats: Skill Focus (Skill) grants +3 unnamed, other Feats grant +2/+2 unnamed to specific skills

Item Familiar (UE): Grants a character with the Familiar class feature to invest skill ranks into an Item Familiar. As long as he/she does not lose it, he/she gets the full bonuses. Additionally, for all 3 points invested (in total, the chosen skills don't matter) he/she can get an unnamed +1 bonus to a skill of his/her choice (max bonus to one skill: rank). E.g. if you get 7 skill points for 3 levels and invest them into the Familiar, then you can assign a total of +7 bonuses to any skills of your liking. This is incredible.

Bonuses from:
Racial
Feats
Class abilities
...

C) Raising ability stats

Leveling. Every 4 Levels you may increase one of your stats. No-brainer.

Items. Of course there are items to raise your stats. Tell me if you know of some non-canonical ones, especially if they do not provide enhancement bonuses.
Amulet of Health +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to CON

Belt of Giant Strength +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to STR

Cloak of Charisma +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to CHA

Gloves of Dexterity +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to DEX

Headband of Intellect +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to INT

Periapt of Wisdom +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to WIS

Spells. Many spells raise abilities, mostly with enhancement bonuses.
Bear's Endurance, +4 enhancement to CON

Bull's Strength, +4 enhancement to STR

Cat's Grace, +4 enhancement to DEX

Eagle's Splendor, +4 enhancement to CHA

Fox's Cunning, +4 enhancement to INT

Owl's Wisdom, +4 enhancement to WIS

Mass-Versions of all of the above

Enlarge Person, +2 size bonus to STR (and -2 size malus to DEX)

(Lesser) Visage of the Deity (CD), +4 enhancement bonus to CHA

Greater Visage of the Deity (CD), +4/2/4/2/4/4 unnamed bonus to STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA if caster is good, +4/4/2/4/0/2 if caster is evil

Polymorph, no explicit bonuses, but ability stats are changed for STR/DEX/CON

Polymorph any object, same, but includes INT

Shapchange, like Polymorph

Racial modifications. These are largely self-explanatory. I won't list all races but rather want to point to www.crystalkeep.com, where you can find all of these things - indexed. Looking for a race with +2 WIS and at most +1 LA? No problem!

Class features
Barbarian's Rage (Lvl 1,11,20): +4/6/8 unnamed bonus to STR and CON

Chameleon's Ability Boon (RoD, Lvl 4,7,10): +2/4/6 competence bonus to an arbitrary stat each day

Racial Paragon classes (UE): I think it is always a +2 ability score permanent increasement

...

D) Options
Take10
General: Check the PHB for rulings about Take10. It is not absolutely clear, when it is okay to make use of this option, but one can get a feeling about it (PC is concentrated, not distracted, not in combat)

A rogue of lvl 10/13/16/19 can take Skill Mastery as a class ability, which allows him/her to Take10 even during combat

Take12: The Savvy Rogue Feat in Complete Scoundrel increases the Skill Mastery of the rogue to Take12

Take20: See Take10. Given enough time and no failure result (when it is reasonable to retry) you are in general allowed to Take20.

Aid another. Make a DC 10 check to allow another person a +2 circumstance bonus to his/her skill check. This one sounds great, but sadly, it is quite limited. The helper must have the ability to do the same task on his own. That is why I wrote "nonmagical" trap in the example above. Only a character with the trapfinding class feature can help another disabling a magical trap. The good news is: If there is only a single chance (e.g. bluffing an NPC) then it is very useful. The final word goes to the DM. He can restrict how many characters can help each other (the DM can choose this to be zero). I do not know whether help from 5 people would stack up to +10, but according to my understanding, it does not. Help from 5 people just increases the chances that at least one of them would beat the DC 10 check. But that is my interpretation, the PHB is not 100% clear about it and I did not find anything about it in the FAQ either.
Another factor is, that it does not stack with Masterwork Tools from the PHB.

E) Class abilities
Skill bonuses (e.g. Ninja, Great Leap), see B)

Abilities that simulate Feats

Special.
Skill Mastery of the Rogue (Lvl 10/13/16/19): Allows to Take10 even in stress situations.

Inspire competence Song of the Bard (Lvl 3): Grants a +2 competence bonus to a specific skill of an ally

...

F) Synergy effects
+2 Spellcraft by having 5 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana)

...

G) Uncategorized
Special spells:
Dominate Person: Dominate someone (e.g. a rogue) to do stuff for you.

Sources:
If a source is not named, then it most likely is in the PHB or the DMG
PHB - players handbook
DMG - dungeon master guide
PHB2 - players handbook 2
UE - unearthed arcana
C* - Complete something
CD - Complete Divine
SC - Spell Compendium

That's it so far, I will fill in gaps later. I hope there is a lot of participation, maybe we can make a handbook out of this :-)

ToDo:
- Marshal Aura
- Dread Pirate, Horizon Walker
- Necromancer (crystalkeep)
- Regional Feats from FR
- Focused Skill User from Complete Psionic: Lormador, please enlighten me further. I don't have psionic books and don't like them either :-)

#2
dpskane
May 18, 2010 8:52:32 *reserved*
#3
bahamuthian_guard
May 18, 2010 9:09:41 nice idea dpskane,

i cant really think of importend stuff to add to your list.
but i cant really express how cool i think it is of someone to pick up a dead link and revive the knowledge.
(those dead links have been bothering me for quite a while now)

keep up the good work!
#4
dpskane
May 18, 2010 12:24:56 thanks. I hope I am motivated enough to improve this from time to time.
It is of personal interest :-)
Otherwise it would only make sense if someone would also create another "some handy links ..." topic (or if the thread starter takes his time to mark any dead links - or links that may be dead but where at least the content is still available somewhere in the forum.
But I still fear that the forum transfer made a bunch of people looking for another more reliable playground (with a better search function - this one is ... terrible)
#5
lormador
May 18, 2010 22:30:51 Item Familiars- used to gain the sickest bonuses.

Various Class Features- ex. the Horizon Walker's bonuses to various skills, like Hide, from a given terrain type.

Spell, Divine Insight (cleric 2) can give a large bonus.

Take 12 is from the Savvy Rogue feat in Complete Scoundrel.

Bardic Music- Inspire Competence.

Various Marshal auras.

Class features of Dread Pirate and related classes that help crews operate ships.

Alter Self can be used to access various racial bonuses, for example, the Phaerlock form from Underdark has a tail and so +4 racial bonus to Swim, Climb, Balance (I think).

Items like Cloak of Elvenkind. Masterwork Tools aren't even on the list yet!

I believe there's a Crystalkeep variant of Necromancer that allows one to put a slain enemy's soul in a receptacle, then use that receptacle to make a few Skill checks.

Dominate Person can be used (easily) on a Rogue to get all kinds of skills for a party.

Various 1st level spells in Spell Compendium allow free Search/Disable Device/etc. checks. These first appeared in Complete Adventurer I think.

Regional Feats from FR often include nice skill bonuses.

Focused Skill User from Complete Psionic gives a +2 to three skills while the user is focused. Nice.
#6
dpskane
May 19, 2010 11:53:43 thanks lormador. I included some of your ideas and put the others on my todo list. but for today, that is enough :-)

#7
Senevri
May 19, 2010 13:06:17 Bard 1: Improvisation. What can't it do?
#8
Endarire
May 22, 2010 17:16:13 -Get 2 or 3 items to cast guidance of the avatar at will. (10,800 each)

-Get an item of the level 4 Artificer infusion item alteration at will. (57,600)

-Before doing the buff rotations, use item alteration to change the skill bonus granted from each item to a different type, such as "Spiffy" and "Awesome."

-Activate each Avatar item before casting each spell.

-Buff away!

NOTE: You only need one Avatar item, but for the sake of expediency, I bought more.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dpskane May 18, 2010 8:52:13	A long time ago I collected ideas of how to beat spellcraft DCs of an incantatrix. The link in the "handy links ..."-topic is dead and actually, this question can be made much more general. Long story short: I try to recreate the knowledge of those days. Want to help? What do I nead? Any ideas. Any feats, spells, items, class abilities or else that, in any way, affect a skill check. Below I will try to categorize it, but though I could look up a lot of things I would rather prefer to get them told by people who use certain feats/spells/items at least sometimes and edit my text. Introduction Beating skill check DCs is the main purpose of having skills at all. Sometimes the PC can influence the skill check, e.g. altering conditions to increase his chances for climbing an object, and sometimes he can't, e.g. because he does not even know, when a skill check will be appropriate (Listen, Spot). This topic is mostly (but not solely) about the first kind. In some cases a player only wants to reach certain tresholds, e.g. the DC 15 Concentration check for casting defensively or certain Ride skills, also defined by fixed DCs. In other cases the DCs are much less fix, like e.g. finding more and more powerful traps via Search. Most players out there probably simply raise their characters' skill ranks and use them whenever their DM tells them to do so. And that's absolutely fine. But in some cases, it is invaluable to think about options. E.g. a (nonmagical) trap going off because the rogue missed the DC by 6 points with a rolled 1 - although the group's wizard has a high INT score, does not know where to put his/her skill points and by investing 2 points for buying one skill rank in Disable Device allows him/her to use Aid Another, which in most cases will succed (assuming an INT modifier of 5 then the chances are 85%) - and thus increase chances for the rogue. I also (of course) still have the original purpose in mind: beating insanely high spellcraft DCs with an incantatrix (for those who don't know: the incantatrix can apply metamagic effects to spells that are still in effect. To do that she has to beat an DC of 18 + 3 x modified spell level. An extended mage armor is a simple 24, but a fell drained (+2), maximized (+3), persisted (+6) maw of chaos (9) is a mad DC 78 (and does not make much sense ^^). All the stuff you should know about Skills are (mainly) defined by a PC's skill modifier. Which is, in short, simply the skill rank, the ability bonus (or malus) and a bunch of other bonuses which a player usually denotes when he creates his character or gets a nice new item or class ability. But as noted above, we want to find out, how to improve skill check results. In most cases this can be achieved by raising the skill modifier. But there are some other options as well. So finally I stop talking junk. A) Raising skill ranks Leveling, he obvious thing. Getting levels also allows you to raise your skill ranks. Remember that once a skill becomes a class skill for you, it is always a class skill and thus you can raise it to 3 + your character level. However, the amount of points you have to invest depend on the class you take at the specific level-up. Able learner [Feat]: This is a feat for humans and doppelganger and must be taken at first level. It decreases the skill point cost for all skill ranks bought to 1, i.e. cross-class skills cost the same as class-skills. I think that there actually was some absolutely strange way of how to increase the max ranks to more than 3+Level, but I can't remember. Does someone know? B) Skill modifications Items. In the DMG an awful lot of items is listed, which grant bonuses to skills. Roughly 80% of all skills are served there. And, assuming a generous DM, one can create/buy items for every skill available. AFAIK all bonuses are competence bonuses. (Masterwork) Tools: PHB 129ff: Most of them allow +2 circumstance bonuses to specific skills or even imply penalties if the PC does not use them. A general entry called "Masterwork Tool" says that such items can be created for just about any skill. This obviously is in the DM's decision. Spells. Alter Self: Transforming into races with racial skill bonuses do provide these skill bonuses also to you. The bonus skill point a human gets with each level is not a racial skill bonus. Master's Touch (PHB2, brd 2, clc 2, sor/wiz 2): +4 insight bonus on one single skill check being done in one single round. Divine Insight (SC, clc 2, pal 2): +5+CL (max 15) insight bonus to one single skill check Appraising Touch (SC, brd 1, sor/wiz 1): +10 insight bonus on appraise. Lasts for hours! Insightfull Feint (SC, ass 1, sor/wiz 1): +10 insight bonus to next feint attack Instant Locksmith (SC, ass 1, sor/wiz 1): +2 insight bonus on Disable Device or Open Lock (the check is done as a free action, the spell as a swift) Instant Search: Same as above, but to a Search check. Feats. PHB Feats: Skill Focus (Skill) grants +3 unnamed, other Feats grant +2/+2 unnamed to specific skills Item Familiar (UE): Grants a character with the Familiar class feature to invest skill ranks into an Item Familiar. As long as he/she does not lose it, he/she gets the full bonuses. Additionally, for all 3 points invested (in total, the chosen skills don't matter) he/she can get an unnamed +1 bonus to a skill of his/her choice (max bonus to one skill: rank). E.g. if you get 7 skill points for 3 levels and invest them into the Familiar, then you can assign a total of +7 bonuses to any skills of your liking. This is incredible. Bonuses from: Racial Feats Class abilities ... C) Raising ability stats Leveling. Every 4 Levels you may increase one of your stats. No-brainer. Items. Of course there are items to raise your stats. Tell me if you know of some non-canonical ones, especially if they do not provide enhancement bonuses. Amulet of Health +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to CON Belt of Giant Strength +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to STR Cloak of Charisma +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to CHA Gloves of Dexterity +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to DEX Headband of Intellect +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to INT Periapt of Wisdom +X (1-6), +X enhancement bonus to WIS Spells. Many spells raise abilities, mostly with enhancement bonuses. Bear's Endurance, +4 enhancement to CON Bull's Strength, +4 enhancement to STR Cat's Grace, +4 enhancement to DEX Eagle's Splendor, +4 enhancement to CHA Fox's Cunning, +4 enhancement to INT Owl's Wisdom, +4 enhancement to WIS Mass-Versions of all of the above Enlarge Person, +2 size bonus to STR (and -2 size malus to DEX) (Lesser) Visage of the Deity (CD), +4 enhancement bonus to CHA Greater Visage of the Deity (CD), +4/2/4/2/4/4 unnamed bonus to STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA if caster is good, +4/4/2/4/0/2 if caster is evil Polymorph, no explicit bonuses, but ability stats are changed for STR/DEX/CON Polymorph any object, same, but includes INT Shapchange, like Polymorph Racial modifications. These are largely self-explanatory. I won't list all races but rather want to point to www.crystalkeep.com, where you can find all of these things - indexed. Looking for a race with +2 WIS and at most +1 LA? No problem! Class features Barbarian's Rage (Lvl 1,11,20): +4/6/8 unnamed bonus to STR and CON Chameleon's Ability Boon (RoD, Lvl 4,7,10): +2/4/6 competence bonus to an arbitrary stat each day Racial Paragon classes (UE): I think it is always a +2 ability score permanent increasement ... D) Options Take10 General: Check the PHB for rulings about Take10. It is not absolutely clear, when it is okay to make use of this option, but one can get a feeling about it (PC is concentrated, not distracted, not in combat) A rogue of lvl 10/13/16/19 can take Skill Mastery as a class ability, which allows him/her to Take10 even during combat Take12: The Savvy Rogue Feat in Complete Scoundrel increases the Skill Mastery of the rogue to Take12 Take20: See Take10. Given enough time and no failure result (when it is reasonable to retry) you are in general allowed to Take20. Aid another. Make a DC 10 check to allow another person a +2 circumstance bonus to his/her skill check. This one sounds great, but sadly, it is quite limited. The helper must have the ability to do the same task on his own. That is why I wrote "nonmagical" trap in the example above. Only a character with the trapfinding class feature can help another disabling a magical trap. The good news is: If there is only a single chance (e.g. bluffing an NPC) then it is very useful. The final word goes to the DM. He can restrict how many characters can help each other (the DM can choose this to be zero). I do not know whether help from 5 people would stack up to +10, but according to my understanding, it does not. Help from 5 people just increases the chances that at least one of them would beat the DC 10 check. But that is my interpretation, the PHB is not 100% clear about it and I did not find anything about it in the FAQ either. Another factor is, that it does not stack with Masterwork Tools from the PHB. E) Class abilities Skill bonuses (e.g. Ninja, Great Leap), see B) Abilities that simulate Feats Special. Skill Mastery of the Rogue (Lvl 10/13/16/19): Allows to Take10 even in stress situations. Inspire competence Song of the Bard (Lvl 3): Grants a +2 competence bonus to a specific skill of an ally ... F) Synergy effects +2 Spellcraft by having 5 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana) ... G) Uncategorized Special spells: Dominate Person: Dominate someone (e.g. a rogue) to do stuff for you. Sources: If a source is not named, then it most likely is in the PHB or the DMG PHB - players handbook DMG - dungeon master guide PHB2 - players handbook 2 UE - unearthed arcana C* - Complete something CD - Complete Divine SC - Spell Compendium That's it so far, I will fill in gaps later. I hope there is a lot of participation, maybe we can make a handbook out of this :-) ToDo: - Marshal Aura - Dread Pirate, Horizon Walker - Necromancer (crystalkeep) - Regional Feats from FR - Focused Skill User from Complete Psionic: Lormador, please enlighten me further. I don't have psionic books and don't like them either :-)
#2 dpskane May 18, 2010 8:52:32	reserved
#3 bahamuthian_guard May 18, 2010 9:09:41	nice idea dpskane, i cant really think of importend stuff to add to your list. but i cant really express how cool i think it is of someone to pick up a dead link and revive the knowledge. (those dead links have been bothering me for quite a while now) keep up the good work!
#4 dpskane May 18, 2010 12:24:56	thanks. I hope I am motivated enough to improve this from time to time. It is of personal interest :-) Otherwise it would only make sense if someone would also create another "some handy links ..." topic (or if the thread starter takes his time to mark any dead links - or links that may be dead but where at least the content is still available somewhere in the forum. But I still fear that the forum transfer made a bunch of people looking for another more reliable playground (with a better search function - this one is ... terrible)
#5 lormador May 18, 2010 22:30:51	Item Familiars- used to gain the sickest bonuses. Various Class Features- ex. the Horizon Walker's bonuses to various skills, like Hide, from a given terrain type. Spell, Divine Insight (cleric 2) can give a large bonus. Take 12 is from the Savvy Rogue feat in Complete Scoundrel. Bardic Music- Inspire Competence. Various Marshal auras. Class features of Dread Pirate and related classes that help crews operate ships. Alter Self can be used to access various racial bonuses, for example, the Phaerlock form from Underdark has a tail and so +4 racial bonus to Swim, Climb, Balance (I think). Items like Cloak of Elvenkind. Masterwork Tools aren't even on the list yet! I believe there's a Crystalkeep variant of Necromancer that allows one to put a slain enemy's soul in a receptacle, then use that receptacle to make a few Skill checks. Dominate Person can be used (easily) on a Rogue to get all kinds of skills for a party. Various 1st level spells in Spell Compendium allow free Search/Disable Device/etc. checks. These first appeared in Complete Adventurer I think. Regional Feats from FR often include nice skill bonuses. Focused Skill User from Complete Psionic gives a +2 to three skills while the user is focused. Nice.
#6 dpskane May 19, 2010 11:53:43	thanks lormador. I included some of your ideas and put the others on my todo list. but for today, that is enough :-)
#7 Senevri May 19, 2010 13:06:17	Bard 1: Improvisation. What can't it do?
#8 Endarire May 22, 2010 17:16:13	-Get 2 or 3 items to cast guidance of the avatar at will. (10,800 each) -Get an item of the level 4 Artificer infusion item alteration at will. (57,600) -Before doing the buff rotations, use item alteration to change the skill bonus granted from each item to a different type, such as "Spiffy" and "Awesome." -Activate each Avatar item before casting each spell. -Buff away! NOTE: You only need one Avatar item, but for the sake of expediency, I bought more.