1. Half Dragon
2. Dragon Disciple
3. Dragonfire Adept
Now I'm not limiting it to draconic breath weapons, I merely started with those, because I'm most familiar with those. Others?
Draconic Heritage (sorcerer) + Draconic Breath to sac spells/day for breath weapon based on Heritage with DC of 10 + cha + level sac.
Dragonheart Mage PrC for improving version of this feat.
I mean, for some reason WOTC writers seem to shun breath-weapons like the plague. Half-dragon, ugh. Dragon disciple, teh suck. Dragon Breath spell, meh, well, if you habitally fight hordes of really weak critters, but other than that, really not worth it for the level, it seems. Perhaps admixtured, explosified, uttercolded, born of three thurndered and black lore of moiled. (I'm just quoting random feats from the back of my head.) But not even a CLERICOFDOOMzilla can do all that. (Or can he?)
And when you can, there's shapechange.
Anyways, to break the mold from draconic breath weapons:
The Half-Golem template. If you take on the iron golem aspect, you get a poison breath weapon.
Anything else like that?
The Blinding Breath spell in Spell Compendium is a must have for any Draconic Heritage Sorcerer. It turns your rather meh damage into a really potent AoE reflex! save or lose. Its even crazier if a true dragon with access to 4th level spells gets his hands on it. That's a pretty strong party killer...creature with high mobility and flight that they can't see? Game over. Late game, reflex tends to be the best save to target because as size increases, so does con (bad for fort saves) but dex tends to go down (good for reflex saves). Considering that the DC for Draconic Breath scales with level as you use higher and higher spell slots for it, this is one 4th level spell that remains useful for the entire duration of a character.
Oh I got another one, a character eats alot of onions and/or garlic and breaths in the enemy's face LMAO. Sorry if that wasn't funny, I just couldn't resist.
Draconic Breath in RoTD lets 1/2 Dragons breathe infinite (1d4 round delays) breaths all day.
Fiery Exhalation in Dragon Magic lets you breathe and then step through the flame.
Hm... We just fought something with a dumb breath weapon in Castle Ravenloft, but I don't know if that's a standard creature or something special they cooked up. (Curse my principles, which forbid me from learning all about it before the campaign is done!:ahem
Someone else might know that.@ OP: If you really, really want a breath weapon character, look at Dragonfire Adept... I think LogicNinja had a CO diary of a pretty good one somewhere, although I can't seem to find it right now. Also half-dragon with Draconic Breath (RotD) and a ton of metabreath feats can get fun.
EDIT: So I realized I'm dumb. Shamelessly pulled from Surreal's List:
Breath Weapon
Half-Dragon template
Tattoed Monk 1, ecl 6, Complete Warrior, dragon tattoo
Dragonborn, template, Races of the Dragon
Draconic Breath, feat, Races of the Dragon
Dragonheart Mage 1, ecl 6, Races of the Dragon
Metabolic Fire, graft, Races of the Dragon
Dragon Shaman 4, PHB2
Talon of Tiamat 1, ecl 5, Draconomicon
Dragonfire Mask, soulmeld, Dragon Magic
Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Magic
Druid 5 (Aspect of the Dragon variant), Dragon Magic
Swift Wing 3, ecl 8, Dragon Magic, see text
Diamond Dragon 4, ecl 9, Dragon Magic, Int based DC
Chromatic Dragon, Domain, ???
Amon, vestige, ecl 1, Tome of Magic
Orthos, vestige, ecl 15, Tome of Magic
Canomorphs, from Fiend Folio... they're hellhounds, so crap for breath weapons, but they've got 'em.
Hm... We just fought something with a dumb breath weapon in Castle Ravenloft, but I don't know if that's a standard creature or something special they cooked up. (Curse my principles, which forbid me from learning all about it before the campaign is done!:ahem
@ OP: If you really, really want a breath weapon character, look at Dragonfire Adept... I think LogicNinja had a CO diary of a pretty good one somewhere, although I can't seem to find it right now. Also half-dragon with Draconic Breath (RotD) and a ton of metabreath feats can get fun.
EDIT: So I realized I'm dumb. Shamelessly pulled from Surreal's List:
Breath Weapon
Half-Dragon template
Tattoed Monk 1, ecl 6, Complete Warrior, dragon tattoo
Dragonborn, template, Races of the Dragon
Draconic Breath, feat, Races of the Dragon
Dragonheart Mage 1, ecl 6, Races of the Dragon
Metabolic Fire, graft, Races of the Dragon
Dragon Shaman 4, PHB2
Talon of Tiamat 1, ecl 5, Draconomicon
Dragonfire Mask, soulmeld, Dragon Magic
Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Magic
Druid 5 (Aspect of the Dragon variant), Dragon Magic
Swift Wing 3, ecl 8, Dragon Magic, see text
Diamond Dragon 4, ecl 9, Dragon Magic, Int based DC
Chromatic Dragon, Domain, ???
Amon, vestige, ecl 1, Tome of Magic
Orthos, vestige, ecl 15, Tome of Magic
Surreal needs to add the following to that:
Ankheg Breastplate (Throat bind), Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Behir Gorget (Throat bind), Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Gorgon Mask (Throat bind), Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Winter Mask (Throat bind) Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
That's it. A few other ones give something similar to a BW, but those are Rays and not actual BW.
Surreal needs to add the following to that:
Ankheg Breastplate (Throat bind), Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Behir Gorget (Throat bind), Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Gorgon Mask (Throat bind), Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
Winter Mask (Throat bind) Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum
That's it. A few other ones give something similar to a BW, but those are Rays and not actual BW.
Thanks. I'll put those in the next time I update.
(note it is chessey due to race and abusing savage species).
Phaerimm get sorcerer casting equal to their racial hit dice.
Adult Phaerimm
10 HD+5 LA
3 additional heads yields 6 racial Hit Dice and 3 LA. Plus all heads gain their own independent breath weapon.
for a total of
16 HD and 8 LA.
Now combine with the spell dragon breath and suddenly you can do 4 breath weapons at once (due to how multiheaded is worded.)
-----
Now imagine that build in a gestalt game with hit dice on one side and la on the other.
Oh, and wats a SAD? ^^;;;
No Spell Resistance
No Attack of Opportunity
No Dispel
Yes Energy Resistance
-DFA and Dragonborn have little problem here due to breath mod and type change at will, respectively.
Yes Antimagic Field - if it is Su and not Ex
The usual class and PC options top out at a potential 10d6 + 1d6 Dragon Cinture Belt.
Dragonfire Adept can do
8d6 DFA class, +2d6 Syberis(Eb) dip + 1d6 Dragon Cinture Belt
Apply the Bahamut breath mod: Standard Action, 2x damage, untyped, disintegrate
Apply the Tiamat breath mod: Full Round Action, 5x damage, multi-typed
Unfortunately for this class that can actually nuke hard with breath weapons, you'll be waiting until level 15 to be able to use those mods.
Until then, a breath weapon seems to serve best as a vehicle for debuff & lockdown. I'm a big fan of Entangling on my Dragon Shaman, and even just the ranged damage when I can't get into a favorable melee position.
The "bad" thing about Multi-headed is that while you get to nuke with the combined breath-weapon(each one granting its own Reflex save though), if you choose to sacrifice one of the heads to bite something else, it still can't breathe until the cooldown is done(one 1d4 rolled for all heads). On the other hand, you can always choose to use that Feat from RotD(?) that imbues your bites with your breath weapon. Don't remember if there's any way to breathe while holding on to someone with your bite(I know that a creature held in your mouth, presumably en route to swallowing, can be breathed upon).
Um, not really. If you have more than one BW, you can't use any of them while one is recharging. They clarify this in the Rules Compendium.
Hm... you saw right to the core of the character concept. Now, I don't have the rules compendium, so could someone confirm that statement for me? Also, is that rule listed anywhere else? Because if the rules compendium is the only place, and I don't own it... well, we're not supposed to use material from books we don't own, right? ;)
Hm... you saw right to the core of the character concept. Now, I don't have the rules compendium, so could someone confirm that statement for me? Also, is that rule listed anywhere else? Because if the rules compendium is the only place, and I don't own it... well, we're not supposed to use material from books we don't own, right? ;)
It is actually stated in the SRD:
Breath Weapon (Su)
Using a breath weapon is a standard action. Once a dragon breathes, it can’t breathe again until 1d4 rounds later. If a dragon has more than one type of breath weapon, it still can breathe only once every 1d4 rounds. A blast from a breath weapon always starts at any intersection adjacent to the dragon and extends in a direction of the dragon’s choice, with an area as noted on the table below. If the breath weapon deals damage, creatures caught in the area can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage; the DC depends on the dragon’s age and variety, and is given in each individual entry. Saves against nondamaging breath weapons use the same DC; the kind of saving throw is noted in the variety descriptions. The save DC against a breath weapon is 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Con modifier.
It mentions Dragons only, but the RC also confirms that this applies to anything with a Breath Weapon, Dragons are the ones it just shows up on the most.
Sad monkey!
I list up a bunch there.
No-one has mentioned my guide yet?
Sad monkey!
I list up a bunch there.
lets be honest JJ, no one talks about DF adepts for DF adepts cheat. I have a breath weapon that can do 60d6 damage per round, I have a breath weapon that forces the enemy to be slowed without a save, I have a breath weapon that entangles the enemy thus guaranteeing they won't get in melee range.
DF adepts worship at the scaly throne of koboldhood, begging for more WIN to hit them vicariously.
lets be honest JJ, no one talks about DF adepts for DF adepts cheat. I have a breath weapon that can do 60d6 damage per round, I have a breath weapon that forces the enemy to be slowed without a save, I have a breath weapon that entangles the enemy thus guaranteeing they won't get in melee range.
DF adepts worship at the scaly throne of koboldhood, begging for more WIN to hit them vicariously.
I . . . do not know exactly how to deal with what you just said.
DFAs "cheat"? Explain? If what you're TRYING to imply is that DFAs are overpowered, you are so many shades of WRONG that you look like a Day-Glo rainbow acid trip.
Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard, Beguiler, Warmage, Wu Jen, Favored Soul . . . etc. Casters FTW.
When you get Fivefold Breath (which I *think* you were referring to with the "60d6" comment), you're FIFTEENTH LEVEL. Congrats, you can do damage - wheeeee. While a caster can ALTER THE FABRIC OF REALITY, have limitless bound demons, **** enemy minds to make them SLAVES . . . and so on.
People make me crazy. Sheesh.
They cheat for they don't play like other characters such as fighter, rogue, cleric or wizard. They cheat for they make an actual great 5th character.
I was being sarcastic with they cheat part :P
Okay, so I had this idea about creating a character who used multiple breath weapons to his benefit. So, enlisted some help from the Char. Op. boards to figure out the different ways of attaining breath weapons, and in the course of the discussion, it came up that there is a ruling that if a breath weapon is recharging, you can't use any others you have. Now I bring this here to initiate a discussion of whether or not a homebrew feat would be a fair solution to the obstacle in the way of the character concept. As in, would it be gamebreaking/unfair/etc.? Or, should I just abandon the idea altogether?
I was thinking something along the lines of a feat that would let you track each of your breath weapons separately, for the purposes of recharge and metabreath feats. Thoughts?
Edit: here's the original thread http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15639002#post15639002
Now, I understand that this is the wrong place to ask about such things, but for one thing, I'm getting no response from the feats and skills board, and for another thing, you guys understand what does and doesn't break a game better than anyone. So, thoughts on suggested feat, as well as any more additions to the list of breath weapons attainable? For instance, is there any way to get a breath weapon from a creature without having to use shapechange or some polymorph?
I was half joking/teasing. DFA adepts can do a couple good things as your wonderful guides illustrate. They can be a nice ally doing battlefield control and decent non sr/attack roll damage. They can do diplomacy. They can do a few things better than a wizard can actually do, but those things they can do better are limited, and not as game breaking.
They cheat for they don't play like other characters such as fighter, rogue, cleric or wizard. They cheat for they make an actual great 5th character.
I was being sarcastic with they cheat part :P
Phew! My bad, bro!
I realized later that every time someone says DFAs are broken, it's a direct compliment. Nobody said anything like that afore I wrote the guide.
;)
Phew! My bad, bro!
I realized later that every time someone says DFAs are broken, it's a direct compliment. Nobody said anything like that afore I wrote the guide.
;)
exactly, you help made the DFA, from a character who is like a bard (the class not the flavor) into something that is more of a sublime chord/virutso (to use an analogy)
as for the 60d6, I am refering to five fold breath, 9d6, plus that feat for eberron characters (2d6), plus the dragonfire cienture or whatever it is called.
JanusJones, lemme ask you: how do you get around the ruling that while one breath weapon is charging, you can't use any others?
You can't, really. I was reading Savage Species today, and the Multi-headed Creature template said "uses all the breath weapons at once", so I guess it's something like "your breath weapons all come from one source(Draconis Fundamentum in Dragons), and that's the thing that's recharging." That being said, Quicken Breath(which sadly, cannot be taken more than once) will lower the delay to 1d4-1(Monstrous Creatures breathe every 2d4 rounds), + however many rounds your metabreath feats modify it by. Note that it doesn't work with the Maximise Breath Weapon Feat.
However, I think the idea that the breath weapon comes from one place is much more valid in the case of a hydra, as opposed to , say a dragonborn dragonfire adept, with two breath weapons. Does that make sense to anyone else, or am I just out in left field?
I understand your drift(and thanks for seeing my PoV as well), so let me play Demon's(boo to Devils!) Advocate here: Your mouth needs to recover.:P
It is actually stated in the SRD:
It mentions Dragons only, but the RC also confirms that this applies to anything with a Breath Weapon, Dragons are the ones it just shows up on the most.
A Dragonfire Adept can use its breath weapon every round.
~Bowen
The frustrating thing about breath weapons is that they're not designed to stack with each other like sneak attack is. A Dragon Samurai's breath weapon stacks with a Half-Dragon's breath weapon, and is usable 1/per day. What if you get to use your half-dragon's breath weapon more than 1/day? Is a fire cone that does 1d6 damage the same "type" as a fire cone that does 1d8 damage? Left up to the DM to figure out I guess.
I understand your drift(and thanks for seeing my PoV as well), so let me play Demon's(boo to Devils!) Advocate here: Your mouth needs to recover.:P
Yarg... why'd ya have to go and say something that makes sense and is reasonable. What kind of inhuman monster are you?
No, really, what's your subtype, because it apparently grants clear thinking.
Okay, so, while it now *can* make sense not to be able to track breath weapons separately, I'd like to ask again, would it be unfair/break teh game to have a feat which let you do so? I'm really kinda getting into theoreticals here. Just how bad would it be to have, say three or four different breath weapons, be able to track them separately, and to have metabreath feats? Would it be any worse than spellcasting/spellcasters?
Yarg... why'd ya have to go and say something that makes sense and is reasonable. What kind of inhuman monster are you?
Radioactive Feline.
No, really, what's your subtype, because it apparently grants clear thinking.
Madman's insight. Once a day or so, I actually get pure insight. This wasn't one of those events.:P
Okay, so, while it now *can* make sense not to be able to track breath weapons separately, I'd like to ask again, would it be unfair/break teh game to have a feat which let you do so? I'm really kinda getting into theoreticals here. Just how bad would it be to have, say three or four different breath weapons, be able to track them separately, and to have metabreath feats? Would it be any worse than spellcasting/spellcasters?
I think the main issue is one of endurance vs efficacy. Personally, I would rather get a Feat that lets me merge multiple breath weapons into a single action(maybe a meta-breath one where you get to merge 2 or more into 1, but the delay gets an extra 2-3 rounds added, which is the average of 1d4).
As far as Metabreath Feats go, they can certainly work with DFAs. Instead of being able to breathe every round, you can now breathe every X rounds, where X is the Metabreath round modifier(unless you use the plain breath, then it's back to every round).
Okay, so, while it now *can* make sense not to be able to track breath weapons separately, I'd like to ask again, would it be unfair/break teh game to have a feat which let you do so? I'm really kinda getting into theoreticals here. Just how bad would it be to have, say three or four different breath weapons, be able to track them separately, and to have metabreath feats? Would it be any worse than spellcasting/spellcasters?
I hate to keep trying to rain on your parade, but here's what I'm imagining. A Dragonborn Half-Dragon Canomorph with the Dragonfire Mask, the Metabolic Fire graft, the Amon vestige, Dragonfire Adept, a level of Dragonheart Mage, a level of Talon of Tiamat, 4 levels of Dragon Shaman, 3 levels of Swift Wing... I have no idea if that's even possible, or what level you'd be, but you get the point. (Add appropriate feats.)
The end result: I can take the Quicken Breath feat and the Rapid Recharge feat and run around spamming entangling breath/slow breath/sickening breath with the weaker breaths all day, every round, while abusing Maximize/Empower with the more powerful stuff whenever I feel my enemy is sufficiently unable to move. Toss in Enervating Breath to ensure they fail their saves, and so on. Plus, if you actually say "be able to track them separately," you're saying this monster can breathe with more than one weapon in a round. Quicken Breath, particularly, means you can breath as many times a round as you have breath weapons readied.
So, at the beginning of combat, I run in and breathe with every breath weapon I have, with various metabreath feats stacked on wherever I like... how's having to make your save against Entangling Breath six times sound? It goes beyond cheese to plain BROKEN really, really fast. And yes, it's way, way worse than spellcasters because it directly eliminates one of the major design restraints on the weapon. Spellcasting is broken, but at least it's broken as designed, and thus is somewhat limited. (I know, it's no excuse for the borkedness of spellcasting, but it's true.)
I should add that this is all IIRC, as I don't have any of my books with breath weapon information right now... I've got a player building a half-dragon hexblade, so he's got 'em all.
bluedsteel: What do you think of allowing via Feats the ability to "combine" breath weapons, such that you can only apply a single batch of meta-breath feats(and breathe once) in any given round, but the breath weapon has all the effects together(eg, a Half-Dragon Gorgon breathes a weapon that both burns and petrifies you, or the other way around, turning you into magma)?
I would be extremely hesitant, at best. Plus, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. If I had six breath weapons, as above, would your feat allow me to apply all of the damages for each breath? Probably broken. Would it allow a Silver Dragon to breathe cold and paralyzing gas simultaneously? Probably broken. And so on.
I guess I'm just thinking that the breath weapon system was built very explicitly to ensure that there wasn't much point in acquiring multiple breath weapons, since you can't use them together, and feats that allow you to bypass that mechanic are going to be broken. (Kind of similar to how Natural Spell allows you to bypass the "can't cast in wildshape" mechanic, and is broken.) Make sense?
And while the actual breath weapons of force dragons have lesser dice compared to other energy breath weapons, the writing of the graft specifically lists it at 7d8. Combine this with a good con, ability focus (breath weapon), recover breath, and other such things, as well as breath weapons from other sources, and you have a breath monkey. One neat little trick I enjoyed involved the Exhaled Barrier and Exhaled Immunity feats, thus creating lots of walls of force and technically granting immunity to force. The DM ruled that clinging breath also applied to the immunity, so you can extend it as long as you like. Combine it with potions of energy admixture and you can make your buddy (sadly not yourself) immune to all energy types for as long as you choose to delay using that particular breath weapon again. Just another little bit of cheese on top of the variety of cheese breath weapons can accomplish (as I learned from the evil dragon shaman PC who played in a comic shop campaign with an open roster) Oh, and you can't forget the beauty of a Dragon Spirit Cincture, an awesome (and cheap, only 2.5k) magic item that adds another dice to ALL your breath weapons, and adds +1 to the DC if you have a magic item that deals the same energy type. I love the magic item compendium XD