| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1heliomanceJun 09, 2008 14:52:29 | I'm in a game where I'm playing a rather squishy bard build. (Don't worry, it's not pure bard - I've just hit Sublime Chord, and will be going down Virtuoso.) I've already died four times, though two got retconned and one I got a revivify slapped on me in time. Due to this I'm rather nervous. I get a cohort, and would rather like it to be something that can stand in the way and take hits for me, generally being solid while I'm buffing, throwing spells, or even attacking. The DM is very open about content - pretty much anything is allowed on a case-by-case basis, even 3.0 content. In fact, I'm pretty sure he'd allow 2ed content if it was updated in a sensible manner. About the only restriction on what's not allowed is no broken stuff. It's a high-powered campaign (we're playing dragons, using a home-updated version of the 2ed Council of Wyrms campaign) and quite light-hearted so the definition of broken is also reasonably - though not massively - loose. I had thought of using Devoted Defender from Sword and Fist, but that's melee and I'd really quite prefer ranged. Melee isn't much good when the enemies can fly, which they often can. I believe my vassal/cohort starts out at sixth level, possibly eighth. We will almost certainly be going epic at some point, so a progression to 20th level and beyond would be highly appreciated. Highly exotic races are probably a no-no - the basic humanoids are most likely, sans humans themselves. That said, one of the other players has got a winged elf as their vassal. I'm playing a copper dragon, so anything that lives in the same environment as coppers is probably fair game. Many thanks for helping with this - rather unusual - request! |
| #2blargney_the_secondJun 09, 2008 16:24:43 | What size dragon are you right now? |
| #3heliomanceJun 10, 2008 1:20:56 | 3rd age category, 11HD, Medium size. I think it's Young, not sure though. |
| #4blargney_the_secondJun 10, 2008 1:31:22 | How about a small-sized rider as your cohort? Halflings come to mind as both fun and effective. |
| #5brainpiercingJun 10, 2008 2:31:25 | How about a small-sized rider as your cohort? Halflings come to mind as both fun and effective. They are also exactly not a meatshield. (Well, the OP request WAS weird, because Brick Wall and ranged don't IMHO fit together.) Look around for a "Ranged Tripper" build. Alastar made one, once. It seems like your group lacks battlefield control, or you wouldn't die so often. Other than that, an Axe-thrower with Brutal throw, Power-throw going into Master thrower or Hulking hurler is probably nice. (Don't forget to give him quickdraw.) The advantage is he can whip out a melee weapon without losing too much power if need be. The disadvantage is that he'll need quite a few possibly enchanted throwing weapons, since even a returning weapon will only return if he remains stationary. Of course, the strongest cohort you could get on the long run is simply a DMM cheese Cleric built for archery. |
| #6chilepepperJun 10, 2008 2:58:35 | Brick wall cohort, to me, says high HP and some DR to boot. Whatever you make, you should start with 53 hp at first level. Assuming 2 flaws, 32 point build, and access to the appropriate books you can start with effectively 53 hp at first level that's straight out of 3.5 (I'm sure someone somewhere optimized HP, but this is what I got from a level 1 optimization). Elan (1pp) PsyWar (0pp, 8HP), 18 Wis (2 pp), 18 Con (4 HP), Feats as follows: Psionic Talent (2 pp) Psionic Talent (3 pp) Shape Soulmeld: Bloodtalons (fight normally to -10hp, no bleeding) Enhanced Repletion (1 pp negates 4 hp damage) Now, you have 8pp, and 18 hp. 8pp lets you negate a solid 32 damage (immediate action when hit to do so). Effectively 44 HP. Plus, with 16 actual HP and the ability to go down to -9 and be okay, you can let the low damage hits through. That certainly gives a good base to start from. You can keep grabbing PP to use for repletion. There's a feat in Savage Species (you said 3.0 is okay) that grants DR5/- with toughness as the prereq. |
| #7heliomanceJun 10, 2008 4:54:21 | To be fair, I do tend to play quite recklessly, which is one of the main reasons I die so much. The first time I died was within two rounds of hatching - we hatched to find ogres trying to steal eggs. I charged one of them - and promptly got barbequed by my red dragon teammate's maximised clinging lingering breath weapon. Also, ranged and tank aren't so odd together when the enemy is also ranged and/or flying. The nice thing about Devoted Defender is the ability to take a hit for the defended person. If somehing nasty comes and hits me, he can jump in the way. The vassal I have at the moment is a dwarven fighter specialising in archery, but I'm entirely willing to change that. |
| #8tytalusJun 10, 2008 6:46:22 | How about a small-sized rider as your cohort? Halflings come to mind as both fun and effective. For the purpose of preventing the OP to die, they don't have to be. Mounted Combat [General] Some ride check optimization should keep you safe from attacks requiring a to-hit roll at least... If nothing else, it's a pretty fun idea. |
| #9heliomanceJun 10, 2008 9:10:23 | Okay, I've started work on a build, and this is what i have so far: Ogre Rog1/Ftr2 Giant4 Alertness, Weapon Focus (handaxe), 4 skill points into Spot, 4 into Sleight of Hand (cc) Giant4/Rog1 4 skill points into Search, 4 into Sense Motive Giant4/Rog1/Ftr1 Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, 2 skill points into Sleight of Hand (cc) Giant4/Rog1/Ftr2 Precise Shot, 2 skill points into Sleight of Hand (cc) This means that I have all the prereqs for the three classes I'm most interested in at the moment - Devoted Defender, Master Thrower and Hulking Hurler. Thoughts? Stats are 18/13/16/14/12/10 modified to 28/11/20/10/12/6. I rolled them, rather than point buy. |
| #10brainpiercingJun 10, 2008 10:01:30 | Okay, I've started work on a build, and this is what i have so far: Prioritize somehow. IMHO you really want to have Brutal Throw in there before going into another prestige class. Ideally you want it as soon as your cohort begins play. You can take it as a fighter bonus and move Precise-shot to lvl 9 if you take your eighth and ninth level in DD or HH. Or move it to Lvl 1 and move everything up the chain a bit. That would delay your entry into DD (as I assume you need altertness for DD). Also, in the SRD the Handaxe does not have a range increment, I don't know if this is a mistake or whether it gets a range increment somewhere else. I don't know if it qualifies as a thrown weapon in this case. For the purpose of preventing the OP to die, they don't have to be. Nice, I had forgotten about those ride checks. |
| #11gorthawarJun 10, 2008 10:10:23 | I'd go with a gnome knight that rides on your back. 1. It gets a con bonus and a d12 HD for lots of HP 2. Mounted combat at lvl 2 which helps to negate hits on you as mentioned by Tytalus 3. At lvl 6 he gets the ability to take half of the physical damage done to you as an immediate action. Furthermore he's actually flying with you therefore you don't have to worry about his capabilities vs flying opponents and with a lance and some feats he'll do good damage as well. Of course you can increase his defensive abilities by adding Devoted Defender on top of it. I think it'll be a lot more fun to play then your Ogre because it'll give you quite an advantage in mobility. Remember that you'll have to stand or hover right next to that brute if it is supposed to do his duty and guard you. With a speed of 40' and no ability to fly next to your fly speed of 150 thats a pain in the . |
| #12heliomanceJun 10, 2008 12:59:28 | I don't have that much strength - surely a rider, especially if they're in heavy armour, would be quite likely to put me over my light encumbrance and render me unable to fly? Also, I'm not sure, but I suspect that gnomes mght be houseruled to have a CHA bonus rather than CON. I know one of my DMs rules that way, and this one uses a lot of the same houserules. |
| #13blargney_the_secondJun 10, 2008 13:14:03 | Tytalus got what I was nudging towards. Mounted Combat can be a great defensive feat. I was thinking halfling knight/crusader/halfling outrider. The Shield Block counter is fantastic for a rider bodyguard. As for the PrC, if the halfling used the Defensive Riding ability you'd gain +20' speed, +2 Will, and +4 AC. -blarg |
| #14freefall357Jun 10, 2008 13:45:47 | I'd go with a gnome knight that rides on your back. :D - There is a class in the QGnome (not 3.5 compatible) that eventually gets the ability to shake off all damage by taking the hit, falling prone, and jumping back to his feet the next turn (VERY slapstick)...I think it is merry prankster...They use this to jump off high places and pop up to their feet or blow themselves up, land 100' away, get up and go "there's you problem, right there..." :D -THE POINT...I just had visions of a noble Gnome knight leaping from a dragon, lance in hand, harpooning a line of ogres at 120'/rnd and getting up and saying "light 'em up and we got a meal"...LoL Gnome bombing runs |
| #15heliomanceJun 10, 2008 13:58:24 | Unfortunately, I don't have access to QGnome. I have an awful lot of pdfs, but that's not among them. |
| #16MERC_1Jun 10, 2008 17:03:40 | I don't have that much strength - surely a rider, especially if they're in heavy armour, would be quite likely to put me over my light encumbrance and render me unable to fly? Do your dragon wear armor? If not, you absolutely should! I don't care if it protects you in any way, but you can add the Easy Travel that let you carry a medium load as a light load! At +1,500 gp it's a steal, and you will easily be able to carry a rider. It has some other smal bonus as well... Take a look in MIC to find out the details. Any light +1 Armor of Easy Travel will do, but get something you like! Draconomicon or some other book should have barding for dragons. |
| #17heliomanceJun 10, 2008 17:49:25 | Aye, we can get barding. I think it follows the same rules as horse barding. And it's quite nice - one of the many houserules is that weapons and armour doesn't need to have a +1 enhancement bonus before more interesting enchantments can be applied. |
| #18heliomanceJun 11, 2008 3:04:36 | Also, would there not be an issue with the fact that knights must be ultra-lawful and I'm rather chaotic? |
| #19gorthawarJun 11, 2008 9:05:04 | Well first of all a Knight is not even half as bad a a paladin and why would it be an issue anyways. Just imagine him/her as a very loyal bodyguard with some "old fashioned" philosophy that has to guard a spoiled rich brat.... your character! :D Actually it even says in the PHB2 that Knight recognizes the reality, that not everyone is fit to follow the knight's path (page 27, The Knight's code). With the easy travel enhancement you should be able to lift a halfling maiden in mithral fullplate and some extra gear (around 60lbs) unless your strenght is really low. Oh and the halfling outrider is awesome, especially if you are allowed to take the 3.0 version which gets deflect attack just like a devoted defender. This will allow it to negate up to two hits a round in combination with mounted combat. Oh and its defensive ride abillity even doubles your speed! |
| #20gilfalas_elaandrinJun 11, 2008 13:27:49 | Why not just take a 'Supermount' character and make yourself the 'mount'? Wouldn't that make your squishy days things of the past as long as your rider is alive? |
| #21heliomanceJun 11, 2008 21:16:02 | Because I'm building myself as a Bard build and diplomancer. I have no desire just to be a flashy mount. |
| #22heliomanceDec 06, 2008 9:17:47 | Arise, thread long dead, from your shallow grave! Okay, somewhat further down the line. I went with the Halfling rider idea. Current build is Knight 2/Fighter 2/Knight +4/Dragonrider 1. Feats are Animal Affinity, Combat Reflexes, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Skill Focus (Ride), Weapon Focus (Lance) and Dragonfriend. Where do I go from here? I was considering possibly going into Paladin, at least for a bit. What do you guys think? I'm now Young Adult, 17HD, large. |
| #23ChristopherGrovesDec 06, 2008 9:52:33 | Heh ... well it looks like you aren't playing w/ XP penalties. Paladin will help his saves. If you're really wanting him to help you, why not a bit of Marshal? Motivate Casting or whatever that increases everyone's spell penetration rolls (ie, yours), Motivate Dex (init bonus for you) and Motivate CHA (because it makes you a better face). |
| #24heliomanceDec 06, 2008 10:29:13 | Actually, I was considering dipping Marshal myself, as my CHA mod is 10, and my vassal's is only 3 :P |
| #25thegodheadDec 06, 2008 13:50:41 | Have you considered using animate dead or similar to simply have a large creature to stand in front of you under your control? |