build Help for Arcane-ish Cleric Summoner?? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

build Help for Arcane-ish Cleric Summoner??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sir_argenon
May 24, 2009 20:01:26 i already have the tentative build that i want: human clr 3/church inquisitor 2/malconvoker 9/contemplative 1/thaumaturge 5.

i want to be a summoning specialist cleric, that has a wizardlike feel.

i was looking at the domains spell, and summoning @1st. then get the inquisition and time domains from the church inq, and contemplative prc's respectively. i like the time domain for the free impr init feat, haste and way later, time stop. and the spell domain with the anyspell, and limited wish, and b/c is just better than the magic domain imo.

i was wondering if anyone had any better suggestions, especially for feats (the only ones that are written in stone are sf: conjuration, and augment summoning @ 1st) and domains that would help the character feel more wizardly? also, are there any spell suggestions for blasting/battlefield control?

EDIT: just about all 3.5 sources allowed...no dragon.
#2
ninjarabbit
May 24, 2009 20:16:46 Even though it's going to cost you a CL, I'd recommend a level of conjurer wizard. Use the alternate class features from UA/SRD: trade your familiar for rapid summoning, enhanced summoning which trades scribe scroll for augment summoning, and spontaneous summoning that trades your specialist spell slot for the ability to lose a prepared spell to cast a summoning spell of a lower level.
#3
sir_argenon
May 24, 2009 21:23:37 wait, that stuff works with non arcane spellcasting ability?
#4
gorfnad_the_shiznit
May 24, 2009 23:34:41
wait, that stuff works with non arcane spellcasting ability?

Taken from the SRD

CONJURER VARIANTS
One of the most versatile schools of magic, conjuration offers its disciples an effective solution to nearly any task: simply summon the appropriate monster and let it solve the problem. In combat, high-level conjurers fight from behind wave after wave of summoned foes, and in most battles they simply direct their summoned allies into the conflict. In addition to these vaunted summoning powers, conjuration provides effective combat spells and access to teleportation magic.

While virtually any campaign can benefit from rival groups of conjurers serving diverse agendas, conjurers are particularly effective in combat-heavy campaigns. Campaigns that feature a great deal of long-distance travel or travel between planes also benefit from including diverse groups of conjurers, because their specialty facilitates travel and encourages a thorough understanding of the creatures of the Outer Planes.

Rapid Summoning (Ex)
Any time a conjurer using this variant casts a summon monster spell, its casting time is 1 standard action rather than 1 full round. (Creatures so summoned can only take a standard action in the round they are summoned.) Conjurers using this variant gain the normal benefits from enhancing a summon monster spell with the Quicken Spell feat.

A conjurer using this variant permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.

Enhanced Summoning (Ex)
At 1st level, a conjurer using this variant gains the Augment Summoning feat for free instead of the Scribe Scroll feat.

At 5th level, the conjurer's summoned creatures become particularly tough to dispel. Add 2 to the DC of any caster level check made to dispel the conjurer's summoned creatures. At 15th level, this addition to the DC increases to 4.

At 10th level, the conjurer's summoned creatures gain an additional +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution. At 20th level, these bonuses increase to +4. These bonuses stack with those granted by the Augment Summoning feat.

A conjurer using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard.

Spontaneous Summoning (Ex)
Conjurers using this variant can "lose" a prepared spell to cast any summon monster spell of a lower level. For example, a conjurer who has prepared greater invisibility (a 4th-level spell) may lose that spell to cast summon monster I, summon monster II, or summon monster III.

A conjurer using this variant does not gain additional spells per day for being a specialist wizard.

Note: Since conjurers using this variant obviously summon monsters frequently, the game master should require the conjurer's player to prepare simple record sheets ahead of time for each monster that the character commonly summons. It is also important to emphasize speedy play on the part of the conjurer and his summoned monsters.

Well it does just say a summon monster spell. It does not specify arcane or divine. It also says lose a prepared spell to cast a summon monster spell one level lower. Again not specifying wizard or otherwise. So yeah Ninjarabbit's idea is actually a very useful suggestion for the build. And actually the Mastering the Malconvoker handbook has a few builds towards the bottom of the guide that just have 1 level UA conjurer just for those abilities and then goes into cleric.
#5
Treantmonklvl20
May 25, 2009 6:46:46 Yep - the Conjurer dip is viable - however, the extra spellcasting level lost is painful (I would not recommend dipping conjurer right away - level 10 is a good spot).

On the upside though - your character will also be able to activate wizard/sorcerer spell trigger items without the magic domain.

you don't need to pump Int for the build - a 12 is fine.
#6
sir_argenon
May 25, 2009 15:32:16 i see now. very nice, i never thought to do that.

does anyone have any suggestions for blasty/bc spells that are on the cleric list? i know its not many, so any good ones would help.. thanks again.
#7
Treantmonklvl20
May 25, 2009 15:51:26 Now I actually haven't gone through the various handbooks compiling lists of Cleric spells that are good blast/Debuff/BC spells (nor am I particularly inclined to at this moment) but first of all, your right, there aren't many. However, this is what I found in the PHB from levels 1-5.

1: Command (to make a subject fall prone for example), Cause fear (divide and conquer spell), Obscuring mist (to be used with your tremorsense/blindsense summons)

2: Darkness (not a big fan in 3.5, but it is technically BC), Hold Person (Fantastic spell), Shatter (yeah - I know warlocks get it at 1st - but it's still a decent spell), Sound Burst (for the stunning)

3: Deeper Darkness (now this one IS decent - and works VERY nicely with summoned devils/demons who can see in magical darkness), Wind Wall (a decent spell and often underrated)

4: Not much

5: Greater command (for same reasons as command), Insect Plague, Wall of Stone (this one is great - even for wizards)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sir_argenon May 24, 2009 20:01:26	i already have the tentative build that i want: human clr 3/church inquisitor 2/malconvoker 9/contemplative 1/thaumaturge 5. i want to be a summoning specialist cleric, that has a wizardlike feel. i was looking at the domains spell, and summoning @1st. then get the inquisition and time domains from the church inq, and contemplative prc's respectively. i like the time domain for the free impr init feat, haste and way later, time stop. and the spell domain with the anyspell, and limited wish, and b/c is just better than the magic domain imo. i was wondering if anyone had any better suggestions, especially for feats (the only ones that are written in stone are sf: conjuration, and augment summoning @ 1st) and domains that would help the character feel more wizardly? also, are there any spell suggestions for blasting/battlefield control? EDIT: just about all 3.5 sources allowed...no dragon.
#2 ninjarabbit May 24, 2009 20:16:46	Even though it's going to cost you a CL, I'd recommend a level of conjurer wizard. Use the alternate class features from UA/SRD: trade your familiar for rapid summoning, enhanced summoning which trades scribe scroll for augment summoning, and spontaneous summoning that trades your specialist spell slot for the ability to lose a prepared spell to cast a summoning spell of a lower level.
#3 sir_argenon May 24, 2009 21:23:37	wait, that stuff works with non arcane spellcasting ability?
#4 gorfnad_the_shiznit May 24, 2009 23:34:41	wait, that stuff works with non arcane spellcasting ability? Taken from the SRD CONJURER VARIANTS One of the most versatile schools of magic, conjuration offers its disciples an effective solution to nearly any task: simply summon the appropriate monster and let it solve the problem. In combat, high-level conjurers fight from behind wave after wave of summoned foes, and in most battles they simply direct their summoned allies into the conflict. In addition to these vaunted summoning powers, conjuration provides effective combat spells and access to teleportation magic. While virtually any campaign can benefit from rival groups of conjurers serving diverse agendas, conjurers are particularly effective in combat-heavy campaigns. Campaigns that feature a great deal of long-distance travel or travel between planes also benefit from including diverse groups of conjurers, because their specialty facilitates travel and encourages a thorough understanding of the creatures of the Outer Planes. Rapid Summoning (Ex) Any time a conjurer using this variant casts a summon monster spell, its casting time is 1 standard action rather than 1 full round. (Creatures so summoned can only take a standard action in the round they are summoned.) Conjurers using this variant gain the normal benefits from enhancing a summon monster spell with the Quicken Spell feat. A conjurer using this variant permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar. Enhanced Summoning (Ex) At 1st level, a conjurer using this variant gains the Augment Summoning feat for free instead of the Scribe Scroll feat. At 5th level, the conjurer's summoned creatures become particularly tough to dispel. Add 2 to the DC of any caster level check made to dispel the conjurer's summoned creatures. At 15th level, this addition to the DC increases to 4. At 10th level, the conjurer's summoned creatures gain an additional +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution. At 20th level, these bonuses increase to +4. These bonuses stack with those granted by the Augment Summoning feat. A conjurer using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard. Spontaneous Summoning (Ex) Conjurers using this variant can "lose" a prepared spell to cast any summon monster spell of a lower level. For example, a conjurer who has prepared greater invisibility (a 4th-level spell) may lose that spell to cast summon monster I, summon monster II, or summon monster III. A conjurer using this variant does not gain additional spells per day for being a specialist wizard. Note: Since conjurers using this variant obviously summon monsters frequently, the game master should require the conjurer's player to prepare simple record sheets ahead of time for each monster that the character commonly summons. It is also important to emphasize speedy play on the part of the conjurer and his summoned monsters. Well it does just say a summon monster spell. It does not specify arcane or divine. It also says lose a prepared spell to cast a summon monster spell one level lower. Again not specifying wizard or otherwise. So yeah Ninjarabbit's idea is actually a very useful suggestion for the build. And actually the Mastering the Malconvoker handbook has a few builds towards the bottom of the guide that just have 1 level UA conjurer just for those abilities and then goes into cleric.
#5 Treantmonklvl20 May 25, 2009 6:46:46	Yep - the Conjurer dip is viable - however, the extra spellcasting level lost is painful (I would not recommend dipping conjurer right away - level 10 is a good spot). On the upside though - your character will also be able to activate wizard/sorcerer spell trigger items without the magic domain. you don't need to pump Int for the build - a 12 is fine.
#6 sir_argenon May 25, 2009 15:32:16	i see now. very nice, i never thought to do that. does anyone have any suggestions for blasty/bc spells that are on the cleric list? i know its not many, so any good ones would help.. thanks again.
#7 Treantmonklvl20 May 25, 2009 15:51:26	Now I actually haven't gone through the various handbooks compiling lists of Cleric spells that are good blast/Debuff/BC spells (nor am I particularly inclined to at this moment) but first of all, your right, there aren't many. However, this is what I found in the PHB from levels 1-5. 1: Command (to make a subject fall prone for example), Cause fear (divide and conquer spell), Obscuring mist (to be used with your tremorsense/blindsense summons) 2: Darkness (not a big fan in 3.5, but it is technically BC), Hold Person (Fantastic spell), Shatter (yeah - I know warlocks get it at 1st - but it's still a decent spell), Sound Burst (for the stunning) 3: Deeper Darkness (now this one IS decent - and works VERY nicely with summoned devils/demons who can see in magical darkness), Wind Wall (a decent spell and often underrated) 4: Not much 5: Greater command (for same reasons as command), Insect Plague, Wall of Stone (this one is great - even for wizards)