build help - psiotheurgist incantatrix - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

build help - psiotheurgist incantatrix

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sirpercival
Oct 23, 2011 17:04:17 Being my usual completely indecisive self, I've played around with too many ideas, and come around to this as a possible build for an ECL 15 evil game. I would very much appreciate critiques and advice.

LE Illumian
1 Wizard 1 (Focused Conjurer ACF, SF: Conjuration, Improved Initiative, Improved Sigil: Krau [flaw])
2 Ardent 1 (Creation Mantle, Freedom Mantle)
3 Ardent 2 (Time Mantle, Extend Spell)
4 Cerebremancer 1
5 Cerebremancer 2 (Iron Will [Otyugh Hole])
6 Incantatrix 1 (Persistent Spell, Psiotheurgist: Conjuration)
7 Incantatrix 2
8 Incantatrix 3
9 Incantatrix 4 (Twin Spell, Practiced Manifester: Ardent)
10 Incantatrix 5
11 Cerebremancer 3
12 Incantatrix 6 (?)
13 Incantatrix 7 (Quicken Spell)
14 Cerebremancer 4
15 Incantatrix 8 (?)

My wizard CL is 15 (7th-level spells), my ardent ML is 12 (6th-level powers, 35 class pp), so I'll have CL 27 for conjuration spells and ML 27 for Metacreativity and Psychoportation spells with psiotheurgist. I figure to finish off with 2 more Incantatrix and 3 more cerebremancer, then in epic rock out the epic Incantatrix unless there are better ideas.

I'm not sure where to go with my 12th- and 15th-level feats... These are the feats I would like:
Enhanced Power Sigils
Linked Power
Cerebremetamagic
Midnight Metamagic
Psycarnum Infusion
Psionic Meditation
Psicrystal Affinity
Psicrystal Containment

The game will be going epic, but I have better things to do than get these feats epic, I would think. The Psycarnum Infusion/Midnight Metamagic route would be fantastic, except that it's very feat intensive and I just don't think I have the space. Also, my choice of metamagic feats is absolutely up for critique... Thanks for help!!
#2
Tempest_Stormwind
Oct 23, 2011 18:37:44 I thought I was an expert on psionics, but I've never heard of Cerebremetamagic or Psiotheurgist. I'm going to guess that the latter lets you stack caster and manifester levels for a chosen school. (If that's the case, SWEET CTHULHU ON A POGO STICK did some developer drop the ball on that one! Classic example of why Dragon material - which is where I'm guessing it came from - was so hard to get allowed in 3.5's heyday) There's a problem with this: Conjuration and Metacreativity are the same thing, but both are distinct from Psychoportation. This means that if, say, a creature is immune to Conjuration effects, he can still be affected by a Psychoportation (Teleportation) effect. It's the same subschool but in a different "school".

While I commend the Krau cheesing to get 2nd level spells (I'm more a fan of Precocious Apprentice myself; I think Krau is on slightly shakier footing), your ardent manifesting doesn't qualify you for cerebremancer. In order for a wiz1 / ardent 2 to manifest 2nd level powers, he needs Practiced Manifester (Ardent); Improved Sigil (Krau) doesn't apply to psionic powers since they do not have verbal components. (Krau itself does, since psionics and magic are transparent, but Improved Sigil (Krau) specifies that the spells need verbal components.)

I can't offer help on the magic side since I refuse to play wizard-types or metamagic abusers; while I recognize they're essentially as powerful as it gets, that's not what I look for when I play, so my theoretical understanding of them isn't up to snuff. I can help more with the psionics side once this is fixed. (A tablemate of mine is preparing a Psycarnum Archivist for an upcoming game, though, basing his emphasis on Extend, Heighten, Empower, Chain, and effects like Creeping Cold. The idea is to make hard-to-resist duration effects that allow him to contribute while he wastes his actions refocusing; combined with a team focusing on lockdown and hosing effects, this also leads to conservation of spell slots.)
#3
sirpercival
Oct 23, 2011 18:55:07 Yes, they're both from the Psiotheurgy section in Dragon 349. Psiotheurgist does let you stack for a particular school of magic; they grouped Conjuration (Teleportation) with Psychoportation and Conjuration (everything but teleportation and healing) with Metacreativity. Pretty nuts when combined with a cerebremancer... :D

And, of course, Cerebremetamagic allows me to spend power points to apply metamagic feats to my spells.

I'm hoping to get transparency allowed so that my plain old Krau sigil ups my ardent ML, but it doesn't really matter, I can reorder the feats so I take PM earlier if it doesn't get allowed (that will drop my ML by 2, though). And, I had to go with Improved Krau so I could cheese 2nd-level spells for Cerebremancer AND 3rd-level spells for Incantatrix. Precocious Apprentice (my preference as well, especially when I can avoid the CL check w/ a focused specialist) only gets me the former.

I... love free metamagic abuse. I can't help it, I'm addicted to it.
#4
Tempest_Stormwind
Oct 23, 2011 19:02:49 Ah, I see what you're trying to do with Krau. It probably will work, now that I look at it again. (You would NOT lose the ML with PM, though: PM scales with level. Thus, if I'm a Sor1 / Ardent 1 with PM(Ardent), my ardent ML is 2. Later on, if I'm a Sor 4 / Ardent 4, my ardent ML is 8, even though I took PM at a point where it only added +1 ML.)

Cerebremetamagic will be your goal here. Psionic powers are as nothing compared to high-CL spells due to the lack of autoscaling. Use them for unusual transparency effects (i.e. Dispelling Buffer) and otherwise sink the PP into metamagic.
#5
sirpercival
Oct 23, 2011 20:15:38 No, that's fine -- I just meant that my FINAL ML will be 2 lower, since I only have 6 Ardent + 4 PM and not +2 krau.

Agreed on the Cerebremetamagic, I think that one's a gimme. Are there any spells that give you more power points? Besides Dweomer of Transference (which is just broken as is)?

Then for the other feat it's either Enhanced Power Sigils (for an extra +1 ML for Ardent and boosts to both in epic), or Linked Power (to break the action economy).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sirpercival Oct 23, 2011 17:04:17	Being my usual completely indecisive self, I've played around with too many ideas, and come around to this as a possible build for an ECL 15 evil game. I would very much appreciate critiques and advice. LE Illumian 1 Wizard 1 (Focused Conjurer ACF, SF: Conjuration, Improved Initiative, Improved Sigil: Krau [flaw]) 2 Ardent 1 (Creation Mantle, Freedom Mantle) 3 Ardent 2 (Time Mantle, Extend Spell) 4 Cerebremancer 1 5 Cerebremancer 2 (Iron Will [Otyugh Hole]) 6 Incantatrix 1 (Persistent Spell, Psiotheurgist: Conjuration) 7 Incantatrix 2 8 Incantatrix 3 9 Incantatrix 4 (Twin Spell, Practiced Manifester: Ardent) 10 Incantatrix 5 11 Cerebremancer 3 12 Incantatrix 6 (?) 13 Incantatrix 7 (Quicken Spell) 14 Cerebremancer 4 15 Incantatrix 8 (?) My wizard CL is 15 (7th-level spells), my ardent ML is 12 (6th-level powers, 35 class pp), so I'll have CL 27 for conjuration spells and ML 27 for Metacreativity and Psychoportation spells with psiotheurgist. I figure to finish off with 2 more Incantatrix and 3 more cerebremancer, then in epic rock out the epic Incantatrix unless there are better ideas. I'm not sure where to go with my 12th- and 15th-level feats... These are the feats I would like: Enhanced Power Sigils Linked Power Cerebremetamagic Midnight Metamagic Psycarnum Infusion Psionic Meditation Psicrystal Affinity Psicrystal Containment The game will be going epic, but I have better things to do than get these feats epic, I would think. The Psycarnum Infusion/Midnight Metamagic route would be fantastic, except that it's very feat intensive and I just don't think I have the space. Also, my choice of metamagic feats is absolutely up for critique... Thanks for help!!
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 23, 2011 18:37:44	I thought I was an expert on psionics, but I've never heard of Cerebremetamagic or Psiotheurgist. I'm going to guess that the latter lets you stack caster and manifester levels for a chosen school. (If that's the case, SWEET CTHULHU ON A POGO STICK did some developer drop the ball on that one! Classic example of why Dragon material - which is where I'm guessing it came from - was so hard to get allowed in 3.5's heyday) There's a problem with this: Conjuration and Metacreativity are the same thing, but both are distinct from Psychoportation. This means that if, say, a creature is immune to Conjuration effects, he can still be affected by a Psychoportation (Teleportation) effect. It's the same subschool but in a different "school". While I commend the Krau cheesing to get 2nd level spells (I'm more a fan of Precocious Apprentice myself; I think Krau is on slightly shakier footing), your ardent manifesting doesn't qualify you for cerebremancer. In order for a wiz1 / ardent 2 to manifest 2nd level powers, he needs Practiced Manifester (Ardent); Improved Sigil (Krau) doesn't apply to psionic powers since they do not have verbal components. (Krau itself does, since psionics and magic are transparent, but Improved Sigil (Krau) specifies that the spells need verbal components.) I can't offer help on the magic side since I refuse to play wizard-types or metamagic abusers; while I recognize they're essentially as powerful as it gets, that's not what I look for when I play, so my theoretical understanding of them isn't up to snuff. I can help more with the psionics side once this is fixed. (A tablemate of mine is preparing a Psycarnum Archivist for an upcoming game, though, basing his emphasis on Extend, Heighten, Empower, Chain, and effects like Creeping Cold. The idea is to make hard-to-resist duration effects that allow him to contribute while he wastes his actions refocusing; combined with a team focusing on lockdown and hosing effects, this also leads to conservation of spell slots.)
#3 sirpercival Oct 23, 2011 18:55:07	Yes, they're both from the Psiotheurgy section in Dragon 349. Psiotheurgist does let you stack for a particular school of magic; they grouped Conjuration (Teleportation) with Psychoportation and Conjuration (everything but teleportation and healing) with Metacreativity. Pretty nuts when combined with a cerebremancer... :D And, of course, Cerebremetamagic allows me to spend power points to apply metamagic feats to my spells. I'm hoping to get transparency allowed so that my plain old Krau sigil ups my ardent ML, but it doesn't really matter, I can reorder the feats so I take PM earlier if it doesn't get allowed (that will drop my ML by 2, though). And, I had to go with Improved Krau so I could cheese 2nd-level spells for Cerebremancer AND 3rd-level spells for Incantatrix. Precocious Apprentice (my preference as well, especially when I can avoid the CL check w/ a focused specialist) only gets me the former. I... love free metamagic abuse. I can't help it, I'm addicted to it.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 23, 2011 19:02:49	Ah, I see what you're trying to do with Krau. It probably will work, now that I look at it again. (You would NOT lose the ML with PM, though: PM scales with level. Thus, if I'm a Sor1 / Ardent 1 with PM(Ardent), my ardent ML is 2. Later on, if I'm a Sor 4 / Ardent 4, my ardent ML is 8, even though I took PM at a point where it only added +1 ML.) Cerebremetamagic will be your goal here. Psionic powers are as nothing compared to high-CL spells due to the lack of autoscaling. Use them for unusual transparency effects (i.e. Dispelling Buffer) and otherwise sink the PP into metamagic.
#5 sirpercival Oct 23, 2011 20:15:38	No, that's fine -- I just meant that my FINAL ML will be 2 lower, since I only have 6 Ardent + 4 PM and not +2 krau. Agreed on the Cerebremetamagic, I think that one's a gimme. Are there any spells that give you more power points? Besides Dweomer of Transference (which is just broken as is)? Then for the other feat it's either Enhanced Power Sigils (for an extra +1 ML for Ardent and boosts to both in epic), or Linked Power (to break the action economy).