So were going to be coming to an end of our current campain and soon will be starting a new one. The DM wants to set it in eberron, its his favorite "world." In our current campain were playing gistalt(sp) and im playing a fighter/paladin. I have had fun playing him, but in our next game i dont want to play the tank again, i also dont really want to play a caster.
So as i looked at what everyone else is going to do, barb, physic warrior, and cleric, i decided to go with a bard. This new campain in eberron is going to be very roll playing heavy and i think it would be fun to play a bard.
My problem comes when i dont know really how to build a bard. I read through the books i have available, PHB and the Eberron book, and have a idea how i want to play him. He is going to be a changeling bard. Kind of the street rat kid who was a pickpocket but taken under the wing of a bard who was in town X and saw that he should better this boy so he wouldn’t end up in jail from being a theft.
We are starting a lvl one and this is what i have for stats and the skills i am going to go with.
Since our DM likes the +10 two odd starting system here is what im going with.
Str 8 -1
Dex 18 +4
Con 13 +1
Int 16 +3
Wiz 9 -1
Cha 18 +4
the skills i will be going with are
Bluff4
tumble2
listen3
since motive4
knowledge (history)2
perform (stringed instrument lute)4
perform (oration/sing)4 *DM is going to give me a 2 for 1 here
slight of hand4
move silently3
hide2
disguise2
gather info2
As for my first lvl feat i was going to go with the extra music since it will be a slow moving campain and i only start off with one song perday at lvl one.
as for my spells i was going to take flare, light, detect magic, and prestidigitation
This is kind of what i have. Any kind of help towards a stronger more solid bard would be awesome. Don’t be to rough on me i am still new trying to learn the basics. Thank you all.
Intelligence doesn't need to be that high because you get lots of skill points anyway, so i'd switch Int and Con for survivability. Also i wouldn't make Str a dump stat because with str 14+, a mighty composite shortbow and inspire courage you'd be looking at solid dmg when your *very* few bard spells are used up.
If i recall correctly Song of the Heart is an Eberron feat, if so it will likely be the best choice for your level 3 feat, if not, Point Blank Shot -> Precise Shot -> Rapid Shot. Consider being Human for the bonus feat. Extra Music may be nice at level 1 but it will become obsolete fast.
Also look up the Fascinate+Suggestion use of bardic music in the PHB, it is the one thing that can make bards very powerful.
If the campaign is really RP-oriented, you could swap Dex and Int for the extra skill points, but the present stat spread looks fine.
Oh, and don't forget Diplomacy : it's one of your best tools later on.
Your bards won't be stellar with only those 2 books available, but he'll be a good team player.
Song of the Heart is amazing, and since you are playing in Ebberon AND you are playing a Changeling, I do believe you can get it for free by swaping out Inspire Compentance which is kind of a weak ability. The essentially free feat is worth more than that ability. Other feats you might want to look into are Melodic Casting (VERY VERY GOOD), possibly something like Power Attack (for 2handed melee) or ranged feats like PB Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.
Straight bard is useful, but have you given any though to PrCs? Common simple builds involve something like Bard8/Virtuoso2/Sublime Chord2/Virtuoso8 or minor variations on that with Lyric Thaumaturge mixed in. Most of these are in Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane. Sublime Chord is REALLY good, as it gives you access to high level wizard spells, which are a lot of fun to play with. You also get full music progression from this build, which helps you optimize your Inpire Courage ability.
For gear, try to get a Badge of Valor(MIC) as soon as possible. If you already have Melodic Casting when you get one, you could essentially keep the same song running all day. This is great since BoV only works a limited number of times per day. When you activate the badge (Immediate Action) you can increase the bonus of an existing song by +1. This stacks with Song of the Heart AND the 1st level bard spell Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium). With these, a 3rd level bard could be rocking a +4 bard song, or +4d6 fire damage with Dragonfire Inspiration. This will increase to +5 at level 8.
Another item of note is the Vest of Legends (DMGII). This will serve you well through most of your bard career. +5 on your Perform check means +5 on the DC of your Suggestion ability. (/handwave "These are not the adventurers you are looking for"). It also gives you an awesome +5 on your effective bard level with respect to music, which, at the right time, can lead to an extra +1 on your bard song earlier than normal.
Other important gear of note is the +x cloak of charisma. Start at +2 and build up to +6 when you are able. If you plan on taking only bard levels, a Crystaline Echoblade (MIC?) adds 1/2 your bard level as damage on all attacks made while performing (very good). Upgrade that with Sudden Stunning (DMGII) and you can force reflex saves with a DC of 10 + 1/2 level + cha bonus as a swift action against any foe you hit or they become stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. If you don't want to get into melee with the foe to hit them with the Sudden Stunning weapon, you can cast Whirling Blade (Bard2, CArcane/SpC) to allow you to make attacks on all foes in a 60' line outward from you. This is actually a really nasty attack when combined with Dragonfire Inspiration and the Crystaline Echoblade, and even more so if you take Power Attack and wield a 2handed weapon like a Greatsword. Slippers of Battledancing (MIC) are a reletively cheap item you can also get to increase your damage by your +cha mod while performing.
Any other questions?
Straight bard is useful, but have you given any though to PrCs? Common simple builds involve something like Bard8/Virtuoso2/Sublime Chord2/Virtuoso8 or minor variations on that with Lyric Thaumaturge mixed in. Most of these are in Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane. Sublime Chord is REALLY good, as it gives you access to high level wizard spells, which are a lot of fun to play with. You also get full music progression from this build, which helps you optimize your Inpire Courage ability.
Any other questions?
Wow ok yeah i havent looked into PrC's yet because only thing i had in my hands were the PHB and the Eberron book. One of the guys in our group has the complete arcane, but as for complete adventurer i dont think anyone has that one. but i will check into those PrCs you mentioned.
You have given me alot to check up on. and its a good thing that tonights our gaming night so i can look through the books before everyone gets there. As for me having any more questions well as of right now i have alot to look up that i didnt even know so i thank you for this much help so far. but ill be sure to ask if i dont understand something. But again thank you all for the help.
Extra Music is a very good choice at first level ; Song of the Heart is a must at level 3. Later on, Soothe the Beast, Undead Empathy or Urban Tracking can be useful but it depends on the campaign. Weapon Finesse if you want to melee (probably not a great idea) ; the archery feats can be decent too (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot). Improved Initiative is never bad.
If the campaign is really RP-oriented, you could swap Dex and Int for the extra skill points, but the present stat spread looks fine.
Oh, and don't forget Diplomacy : it's one of your best tools later on.
Your bards won't be stellar with only those 2 books available, but he'll be a good team player.
Yeah i was probally going to pick up a bow a time or two. but yeah i actually did over look diplomacy when i was picking out stats. ill have to look at how to add that in there.
I want to try a bard build centered almost completely around the Whirling Blade spell. With enough base damage and the proper application of metamagic, you could throw out some truely impressive WBs to cut a swath of destruction through any number of foes. Maybe tack on Collector of Stories, Bardic Knack, and Knowledge Devotion for some extra damage shananagans.
Probably would be better as a Scout/Wiz/USS build with Staggering Strike, but eh, thats another idea.
Song of the Heart is amazing, and since you are playing in Ebberon AND you are playing a Changeling, I do believe you can get it for free by swaping out Inspire Compentance which is kind of a weak ability. The essentially free feat is worth more than that ability. Other feats you might want to look into are Melodic Casting (VERY VERY GOOD), possibly something like Power Attack (for 2handed melee) or ranged feats like PB Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.
Ok found a question. How do i do this?? I asked the DM and he said he wasnt going to get rid of one of the bard songs to give me a "free feat." Just wondering where i can see how this works and have him see it to. Thanks.
Its an Alternative Class Feature. The game is full of them. Give up one ability for a different one. Common ACFs include the Dungeoncrasher ACF from Dungeonscape and Spirit Lion Totem Barbarians from Complete Champion. It should state somewhere in the ECS either in classes or in the discription of the feat itself. I'm mostly going off hearsay and logical deduction. I'm pretty sure its there though, take a look.
ok i will def have to check it out. thank you very much. you've been alot of help
Ok so i have looked up all the feats im going be taking and one i couldnt find was the Dragonfire Inspiration. I was wondering if anyone could post the requirements for it and the stats it actually gives. I think i read it was in the races of dragons book but i couldnt find it. any help would be awsome. thanks again for everyones help
D.fire Inspiration is at pg 17/18 of Dragon MAgic book that's why u couldn't fin it on Races of Dragon
bw where exactly did u find the alternative class feature that let u swap useless songs for free feats? i took a look on the run at RoE and ECS but i wasn't able to find that....D.fire Inspiration is at pg 17/18 of Dragon MAgic book that's why u couldn't fin it on Races of Dragon
Thank you for the help on the book and that does make since why i couldnt find it. but as for the song swap for the feat its in the bard class section. its in the last or second last paragraph in the section befor the example bard, i belive. I dont have the book with me or id look up the page number.
Thank you for the help on the book and that does make since why i couldnt find it. but as for the song swap for the feat its in the bard class section. its in the last or second last paragraph in the section befor the example bard, i belive. I dont have the book with me or id look up the page number.
oh yeah i found it xD i always stopped at the 1st paragraph thinking nothing good was added :D my bad just my bad:D
EDIT: take pyroclastic dragon heritage if u want :-) u wil lbe able to choose between fire and SONIC
oh yeah i found it xD i always stopped at the 1st paragraph thinking nothing good was added :D my bad just my bad:D
EDIT: take pyroclastic dragon heritage if u want :-) u wil lbe able to choose between fire and SONIC
is that located in the dragon magic book also? or what book is that from so i can check it out? thanks
is that located in the dragon magic book also? or what book is that from so i can check it out? thanks
the list of dragons u can choose is on while the full description of a pyroclastic dragon can be found on draconomicon but u shouldn't bother urself finding it i just took a look for a better RP....
the list of dragons u can choose is on while the full description of a pyroclastic dragon can be found on draconomicon but u shouldn't bother urself finding it i just took a look for a better RP....
lol ok well thanks for the info. i still have to check out the dragonfire inspration
If, however, your party is primarily two-handed weapon fighters and barbarians and ray wizards, the extra +hit from the standard bard song is favorable because either their +hit isn't very high (wizard) or the +hit will be converted directly into damage via Power Attack. 2hand PA returns 2:1 damage most of the time, so +1/+1 become +3 damage. +1d6 averages to 3.5 damage, so they are pretty even, although the weapon damage has the benefit of not being subject to energy resistance/immunity and DR tends to not reduce this damage because typically your base damage will already be over the top of the DR, so damage above the DR via PA is irresistable.
This holds true until the fighters get their AB jacked up so high that they can regularly PA for full with little fear of missing, even on iteratives. Since you can only PA up to your BAB, PA has a ceiling, after which the bard song is only adding 1 dmg per level of IC, which is far below the 3.5 dmg per level of IC. If you are already at the PA ceiling, then DFI once again becomes the optimal choice, due to lack of this ceiling.
Its all in the numbers, and someone with more time and excel skills than me could probably calc the exact breakpoint, but 98% of the time, the first statement concerning DFI and IC holds true.