Building a competent gnome rogue/bard - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Building a competent gnome rogue/bard

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zousha_omenohu
Mar 25, 2008 19:41:00 My brother and I are getting ready to try and finally get a campaign off the ground, but his choice of character has me worried. He wants to play a gnome, which I have know trouble with, but wants to multiclass between rogue and bard, which I view as inefficient at best and a big mistake at worst.

I've been told that the bard class is most effective when it is pursued exclusively. Taking levels in other classes delays important bardic music abilities, and I don't feel like the classes synch well. The rogue is meant to deal with traps and stab things in the back, while the bard is supposed to boost everyone else in the party and fill in for whoever's missing, as far as I can tell.

I've tried to dissuade my brother from this, but he's got his heart set on it, so I'm trying to come up with a way that he can still be the party skillmonkey like he wants but doesn't have to give up being a bard, which is his favorite class.

I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to build such a character so he'll be able to do his job effectively.

We're all starting at first level, and I'm putting a cap at level 20. All ability scores will be rolled in the traditional way.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very much.
#2
jameswilliamogle
Mar 25, 2008 20:01:39 In the "Handy Links" thread stickied at the top of the forum you'll find all sorts of good Bardic links.

You are right in thinking that Bard/Rogue is a weak combo, though.
#3
x-codes
Mar 26, 2008 5:28:27 Your best bet is to go into Unseen Seer. It's absolutely not a Bard PrC, but it will advance Sneak Attack, get decent skills, and add some nice spells to your Bard list all the same.
#4
andyjames
Mar 26, 2008 6:10:53 Maybe steer him towards Beguiler (PHB2)?
#5
herrdoktor
Mar 26, 2008 6:35:17 at worst, he'll be "alright" if he just takes 2 or 3 levels of rogue (better is 2 levels of rogue, 1 of unseen seer - 2d6 sneak, evasion, and unseen seer level counts for spellcasting.)
#6
Wyvernhand
Mar 26, 2008 7:48:27 Do swordsages get White Raven? If they do, you could make a bard/swordsage with Song of the White Raven and Shadow Hand maneuvers for the same feel. Would be kind of cool, IMO.
#7
herrdoktor
Mar 26, 2008 8:10:29
Do swordsages get White Raven? If they do, you could make a bard/swordsage with Song of the White Raven and Shadow Hand maneuvers for the same feel. Would be kind of cool, IMO.

no. both warblades and crusaders do. shadow hand is swordsage only. (but you could always use martial study/stance to get a couple from whichever school isn't on the class list)
#8
stickboy2323
Mar 26, 2008 8:10:56
Do swordsages get White Raven?

Nope.
#9
zousha_omenohu
Mar 26, 2008 9:09:17
Maybe steer him towards Beguiler (PHB2)?

I've tried steeering him in other directions, but to him it's all about the bard. I'm not exactly sure why he wants the rogue levels. Bards have an almost similar skill set. He'd be able to be a skillmonkey with just bard levels. Rogues do have sneak attack, but losing out on Bardic Music just seems like an incredible waste. Besides, in that Bard's Handbook I saw an interesting trick with the optional class feature Bardic Knack and the Jack of All Trades feat. He'd pretty much be able to handle skills with a little level tweaking, but he stubbornly insists on this combo.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zousha_omenohu Mar 25, 2008 19:41:00	My brother and I are getting ready to try and finally get a campaign off the ground, but his choice of character has me worried. He wants to play a gnome, which I have know trouble with, but wants to multiclass between rogue and bard, which I view as inefficient at best and a big mistake at worst. I've been told that the bard class is most effective when it is pursued exclusively. Taking levels in other classes delays important bardic music abilities, and I don't feel like the classes synch well. The rogue is meant to deal with traps and stab things in the back, while the bard is supposed to boost everyone else in the party and fill in for whoever's missing, as far as I can tell. I've tried to dissuade my brother from this, but he's got his heart set on it, so I'm trying to come up with a way that he can still be the party skillmonkey like he wants but doesn't have to give up being a bard, which is his favorite class. I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to build such a character so he'll be able to do his job effectively. We're all starting at first level, and I'm putting a cap at level 20. All ability scores will be rolled in the traditional way. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very much.
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 25, 2008 20:01:39	In the "Handy Links" thread stickied at the top of the forum you'll find all sorts of good Bardic links. You are right in thinking that Bard/Rogue is a weak combo, though.
#3 x-codes Mar 26, 2008 5:28:27	Your best bet is to go into Unseen Seer. It's absolutely not a Bard PrC, but it will advance Sneak Attack, get decent skills, and add some nice spells to your Bard list all the same.
#4 andyjames Mar 26, 2008 6:10:53	Maybe steer him towards Beguiler (PHB2)?
#5 herrdoktor Mar 26, 2008 6:35:17	at worst, he'll be "alright" if he just takes 2 or 3 levels of rogue (better is 2 levels of rogue, 1 of unseen seer - 2d6 sneak, evasion, and unseen seer level counts for spellcasting.)
#6 Wyvernhand Mar 26, 2008 7:48:27	Do swordsages get White Raven? If they do, you could make a bard/swordsage with Song of the White Raven and Shadow Hand maneuvers for the same feel. Would be kind of cool, IMO.
#7 herrdoktor Mar 26, 2008 8:10:29	Do swordsages get White Raven? If they do, you could make a bard/swordsage with Song of the White Raven and Shadow Hand maneuvers for the same feel. Would be kind of cool, IMO. no. both warblades and crusaders do. shadow hand is swordsage only. (but you could always use martial study/stance to get a couple from whichever school isn't on the class list)
#8 stickboy2323 Mar 26, 2008 8:10:56	Do swordsages get White Raven? Nope.
#9 zousha_omenohu Mar 26, 2008 9:09:17	Maybe steer him towards Beguiler (PHB2)? I've tried steeering him in other directions, but to him it's all about the bard. I'm not exactly sure why he wants the rogue levels. Bards have an almost similar skill set. He'd be able to be a skillmonkey with just bard levels. Rogues do have sneak attack, but losing out on Bardic Music just seems like an incredible waste. Besides, in that Bard's Handbook I saw an interesting trick with the optional class feature Bardic Knack and the Jack of All Trades feat. He'd pretty much be able to handle skills with a little level tweaking, but he stubbornly insists on this combo.