Building a support-focused bard: spells or songs? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Building a support-focused bard: spells or songs?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tkdb
Feb 20, 2011 19:45:03 My group recently had 3 of our 5 members, including my cleric, were killed in an encounter with a dragon that proved a lot stronger than we'd anticipated. As such, we need to roll up new characters, and I have until Friday to come up with what I want to do. The DM ruled that we can't roll a new character of the same class as the one that died, and since the cleric was mostly dishing out buffs, with the occasional healing when necessary, I figured a bard could be a good choice. I may need to dabble in some rogue areas, since we probably won't have a dedicated rogue in the party (we also lost our rogue/swashbuckler and our barbarian; surviving members are a druid and a sorcerer), but primarily I'm going to be focused on support.
I know the sublime chord PrC is good for spells, but it doesn't look like those levels stack for improving basic bardic music (just uses per day, and even that's at half-progression). Would the spells gained through sublime shord be more effective for party support than what I could manage with the various "inspire X" bardic music abilities? Are there any other PrCs that might be better for party buffing and such?

Pretty much any book is fair game, except for those that are specific to a setting other than Forgotten Realms, and I am limited to only one PrC.
#2
phoenix00
Feb 20, 2011 21:13:37 level?
can you use dragon magazine?
dm opinion on flaws?
even though your DM doesn't allow non fr books, eberron introduced the concept instead of learning a new bardic music effect you can instead take a bard bonus feat such as song of the heart, would your DM be okay on this?
is this mostly a dungeon type game or do you actually do social interaction with these characters?
#3
tkdb
Feb 20, 2011 21:25:40 I'd be rolling him up at level 12.
Dragon magazine is out, as are flaws.
I could ask my DM about the bard feats, he might allow it if it's not explicitly tied to the fluff of the setting.
There is a decent amount of social interaction, though it is primarily combat/adventuring. One of the ones who survived the encounter was the party's sorcerer, who had been doing most of the social stuff, so I'm not sure how much I want to go into social skills for the bard. On the one hand, the bard would definitely be better able to fill that niche, and it would take some of the load off the sorcerer a little bit; however, it would also mean that a lot of the skill point investments put into the sorcerer would be made obsolete, which could be kind of lame.
#4
phoenix00
Feb 20, 2011 21:37:02 Eberron Campaign Setting page 34
=Bard Options: The bards of Eberron can customize their bardic music abilities by means of feats, and they have a couple of appropriate prestige class options.
...
Flavor Text
...
Reﬂecting this connection to the forces of creation, bards have access to a number of feats that extend the powers of their bardic music. A bard can take these feats any time she would normally gain a feat, or can choose one of them as a bonus feat instead of gaining a new form of bardic music at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, or 18th level.These bard feats are Haunting Melody, Music of Growth, Music of Making, Song of the Heart, and Soothe the Beast.

So in sum you can give up one of these abilities
Inspire competence
Suggestion
Inspire greatness
Song of freedom
Inspire heroics
or
Mass suggestion

To get a free bardic music feat such as Song of the Heart. Song of the Heart is from the Eberron Campaign Setting as well and it treats your bardic music as one level higher. Thus an 8th level bard has an inspire courage of +3 instead of +2.
#5
tkdb
Feb 20, 2011 21:46:12 Seems like it should be ok, but I should still probably run it by my DM just to make sure.
#6
phoenix00
Feb 20, 2011 22:03:43 Bard 7/Marshal 3 (not in that order necessary)/Sublime Chord 10

Human Race or something with a bonus feat

Feats
1 Dragon Touched (to allow you to treat yourself as a sorcerer of your character level for the purpose of getting feats, you need this for Draconic Heritage)
1 Draconic Heritage (Battle, to make your Dragonfire Inspiration Sonic instead of Fire)
3 Dragonfire Inspiration. Allowing you to do both Sonic Damage and traditional Inspire Courage
6 Draconic Aura Senses (for the bonus to initative for the entire party which will be a +2 at level 12 and a +3 at level 14)
9 Words of Creation
12 Open

Items
Wand of Inspirational Boost (750G, Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round. Swift action to activate, 1st level Bard Spell. There is no reason not to make this a wand since it is a 1st level spell with no caster level effect.

Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Intermediate Action to activate. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage.

Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher. (There are some other, less important effects.) Thus your bard level is that of a 12th level bard (7+5 from the Vest of Legends) and your Default Inspire Courage is +2 and you get 13 bardic music attempts per day (7 base, 5 Vest of Legends, 1 for you get half your sublime chord level).

Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G, 3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves.

So your Bardic Music is as follows with Inspire Courage
+2 Base (after vest of legends)
+1 Song of the Heart
+1 Badge of Valor
+1 Inspiraitonal Boost
+1 Masterwork Horn
=+6 modifier

Now Words of Creation doubles this, it is debatable if it only doubles the +2 base or the +6 final result thus your total damage is going to be
+8 to Attack and Damage or 8d6 Sonic Damage or
+12 to Attack and Damage or 12d6 Sonic Damage.

For your minor Auras with Marshal you want them to be
Motivate Dexertity so you increase the initative of the entire party and
Motiviate Charisma so you can give your Cha modifier to you and your Sorcerer charismatic effects

Your Spells per day is as follows (cast with a caster level of 9, you can boost this with Song of the Arcane Power)
3 1st, 2 2nd, 0 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th + Bonus Spells
You also give your party a +2 bonus to Initative, Listen, and Spot checks due to your Draconic Aura. You can always have your Draconic Aura and your Minor Aura out at the same time, but you can't have your Draconic Aura and your Major Aura out at the same time unless you take another feat called Double Draconic Aura

Switch out Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart

Note you need an Int and Cha of 15 to do Words of Creation
#7
tkdb
Feb 21, 2011 12:09:00
Bard 7/Marshal 3 (not in that order necessary)/Sublime Chord 10

Human Race or something with a bonus feat

Feats
1 Dragon Touched (to allow you to treat yourself as a sorcerer of your character level for the purpose of getting feats, you need this for Draconic Heritage)
1 Draconic Heritage (Battle, to make your Dragonfire Inspiration Sonic instead of Fire)
3 Dragonfire Inspiration. Allowing you to do both Sonic Damage and traditional Inspire Courage
6 Draconic Aura Senses (for the bonus to initative for the entire party which will be a +2 at level 12 and a +3 at level 14)
9 Words of Creation
12 Open

Items
Wand of Inspirational Boost (750G, Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round. Swift action to activate, 1st level Bard Spell. There is no reason not to make this a wand since it is a 1st level spell with no caster level effect.

Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Intermediate Action to activate. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage.

Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher. (There are some other, less important effects.) Thus your bard level is that of a 12th level bard (7+5 from the Vest of Legends) and your Default Inspire Courage is +2 and you get 13 bardic music attempts per day (7 base, 5 Vest of Legends, 1 for you get half your sublime chord level).

Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G, 3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves.

So your Bardic Music is as follows with Inspire Courage
+2 Base (after vest of legends)
+1 Song of the Heart
+1 Badge of Valor
+1 Inspiraitonal Boost
+1 Masterwork Horn
=+6 modifier

Now Words of Creation doubles this, it is debatable if it only doubles the +2 base or the +6 final result thus your total damage is going to be
+8 to Attack and Damage or 8d6 Sonic Damage or
+12 to Attack and Damage or 12d6 Sonic Damage.

For your minor Auras with Marshal you want them to be
Motivate Dexertity so you increase the initative of the entire party and
Motiviate Charisma so you can give your Cha modifier to you and your Sorcerer charismatic effects

Your Spells per day is as follows (cast with a caster level of 9, you can boost this with Song of the Arcane Power)
3 1st, 2 2nd, 0 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th + Bonus Spells
You also give your party a +2 bonus to Initative, Listen, and Spot checks due to your Draconic Aura. You can always have your Draconic Aura and your Minor Aura out at the same time, but you can't have your Draconic Aura and your Major Aura out at the same time unless you take another feat called Double Draconic Aura

Switch out Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart

Note you need an Int and Cha of 15 to do Words of Creation

Looks like a pretty effective build, but it might not be feasible for me.

First off, I'd be taking XP penalties for multiclassing. My DM rules that prestige classes count the same as normal classes for multiclass XP penalties. But it doesn't look like it would hurt too terribly much to drop marshal and just go bard/sublime chord.

The bigger issue is that it relies a lot on having certain specific magic items to be really effective, and none of them are from the basic DMG. My DM is picking the bulk of the inventory for us, and I know he doesn't like using magic items outside the DMG, so I'm not so sure I'd be able to get ahold of all those items.

I'm also not so sure about Words of Creation; we're actually rolling stats, so it might be hard for me to meet the prereqs.

Given these restrictions, would I maybe be better off doing a favored soul or something else to fill the support role?
#8
nephril
Feb 21, 2011 17:49:17
Bard 7/Marshal 3 (not in that order necessary)/Sublime Chord 10

Human Race or something with a bonus feat

Feats
1 Dragon Touched (to allow you to treat yourself as a sorcerer of your character level for the purpose of getting feats, you need this for Draconic Heritage)
1 Draconic Heritage (Battle, to make your Dragonfire Inspiration Sonic instead of Fire)
3 Dragonfire Inspiration. Allowing you to do both Sonic Damage and traditional Inspire Courage
6 Draconic Aura Senses (for the bonus to initative for the entire party which will be a +2 at level 12 and a +3 at level 14)
9 Words of Creation
12 Open

Items
Wand of Inspirational Boost (750G, Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round. Swift action to activate, 1st level Bard Spell. There is no reason not to make this a wand since it is a 1st level spell with no caster level effect.

Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Intermediate Action to activate. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage.

Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher. (There are some other, less important effects.) Thus your bard level is that of a 12th level bard (7+5 from the Vest of Legends) and your Default Inspire Courage is +2 and you get 13 bardic music attempts per day (7 base, 5 Vest of Legends, 1 for you get half your sublime chord level).

Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G, 3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves.

So your Bardic Music is as follows with Inspire Courage
+2 Base (after vest of legends)
+1 Song of the Heart
+1 Badge of Valor
+1 Inspiraitonal Boost
+1 Masterwork Horn
=+6 modifier

Now Words of Creation doubles this, it is debatable if it only doubles the +2 base or the +6 final result thus your total damage is going to be
+8 to Attack and Damage or 8d6 Sonic Damage or
+12 to Attack and Damage or 12d6 Sonic Damage.

For your minor Auras with Marshal you want them to be
Motivate Dexertity so you increase the initative of the entire party and
Motiviate Charisma so you can give your Cha modifier to you and your Sorcerer charismatic effects

Your Spells per day is as follows (cast with a caster level of 9, you can boost this with Song of the Arcane Power)
3 1st, 2 2nd, 0 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th + Bonus Spells
You also give your party a +2 bonus to Initative, Listen, and Spot checks due to your Draconic Aura. You can always have your Draconic Aura and your Minor Aura out at the same time, but you can't have your Draconic Aura and your Major Aura out at the same time unless you take another feat called Double Draconic Aura

Switch out Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart

Note you need an Int and Cha of 15 to do Words of Creation

god this is why i need to keep my books on me all the time lol. my pdfs are at home too . i have a buddy playing a bardadin that we use some feats from faerun and stuff so im familiar with words of creation however it is to my understanding that words of creation just doubles the amount of your inspiration tha tyou are capable of casting not enhanced with spells or use items. what does work though is vest of legends since it increases your bard level for casting it you cast it at that new level use words of creation to double that then you can apply your enhancements like spells and badge of valor. at level 10 we were seeing a +8 dmg att and save increase

whatever the bonus is based on your bard level is what you get to double. so if your doing +3 then that makes it a +6 it doesnt however double the spell enhancement or the item uses.
after my work with the class this is what we came up with.

its too bad you cant gain access to faerunian books. there is an amazing feat called initiate of milil that lets your pally and bard levels stack for bardic music strength then u get devoted performer (a 3.5 feat) and that increases the number of rounds. we used these two feats in pathfinder with path bard and path paladin it was amazing take one level of bard and 9 levels of paladin and the character is a beast.
#9
phoenix00
Feb 21, 2011 19:33:11

Given these restrictions, would I maybe be better off doing a favored soul or something else to fill the support role?

Given these restrictions you have to play something else or your character will suck. My advice is Druid over Favored Soul. Bards need options outside core such as I listed above to shine in combat. They shine outside of combat even in core with the social aspect but if you take over this role you screw your other player the sorcerer. Personally I severely dislike DMs such as yours.

Favored Souls are Clerics that suck, they get less spells known, and slower spell progression, all in exchange for a good reflex save, so your reflex saves will be 4 higher than a cleric. The energy resistance and weapon specialization is way inferior than what turn undead brings to the table. Finally you lose the awesomeness that is domains.

Here is a base Druid Build

Druid 20

Human or something else that gives a bonus feat.

Feats

1              Spell Focus Conjuration

1              Augment Summoning

3              Greenbound Summoning (Lost Empires of Faerun)

6              Natural Spell

9              Initiate of Nature (Players Guide to Faerun)

12            Imbued Summoning (PHB2)

Learn how to use Druid spells to control the battlefield, Druids are almost as awesome at doing this as conjuration specialists.
Summon Nature Ally is awesome. Summon Nature Ally+Ring of the Beast (Complete Champion, treat your summon nature ally as one higher but you can't go higher than your max spell level)+Imbued Summoning means your summons get a free buff spell
Summon Unicorns to heal
Wildshape
Druids heal pretty well too.

#10
nephril
Feb 21, 2011 23:49:24 favored souls also have spontaneous casting just thought id mention that. heres something for you to do its all 3.5 the only thing u use is a spell from frostburn. go straight wizard get every spell u can for versatility. now the spells yo will want from forstburn shivering touch and lesser shivering touch. these spells do 1d6 and 3d6 dex damage that has no save at all. then for feats just specialize some enchantment compulsion.
#11
darth_versity
Feb 22, 2011 2:48:50 Well it doesn't advance bardic music, but the best PrC ive seen for support bards is the War Weaver. Its only 5 levels so you can finish it by 12 and it allows you to store a number of buff spells to be released as a move action and you can cast single target spells on the whole party at a greater range than the spell allows.

Check out the handbook for more info community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tkdb Feb 20, 2011 19:45:03	My group recently had 3 of our 5 members, including my cleric, were killed in an encounter with a dragon that proved a lot stronger than we'd anticipated. As such, we need to roll up new characters, and I have until Friday to come up with what I want to do. The DM ruled that we can't roll a new character of the same class as the one that died, and since the cleric was mostly dishing out buffs, with the occasional healing when necessary, I figured a bard could be a good choice. I may need to dabble in some rogue areas, since we probably won't have a dedicated rogue in the party (we also lost our rogue/swashbuckler and our barbarian; surviving members are a druid and a sorcerer), but primarily I'm going to be focused on support. I know the sublime chord PrC is good for spells, but it doesn't look like those levels stack for improving basic bardic music (just uses per day, and even that's at half-progression). Would the spells gained through sublime shord be more effective for party support than what I could manage with the various "inspire X" bardic music abilities? Are there any other PrCs that might be better for party buffing and such? Pretty much any book is fair game, except for those that are specific to a setting other than Forgotten Realms, and I am limited to only one PrC.
#2 phoenix00 Feb 20, 2011 21:13:37	level? can you use dragon magazine? dm opinion on flaws? even though your DM doesn't allow non fr books, eberron introduced the concept instead of learning a new bardic music effect you can instead take a bard bonus feat such as song of the heart, would your DM be okay on this? is this mostly a dungeon type game or do you actually do social interaction with these characters?
#3 tkdb Feb 20, 2011 21:25:40	I'd be rolling him up at level 12. Dragon magazine is out, as are flaws. I could ask my DM about the bard feats, he might allow it if it's not explicitly tied to the fluff of the setting. There is a decent amount of social interaction, though it is primarily combat/adventuring. One of the ones who survived the encounter was the party's sorcerer, who had been doing most of the social stuff, so I'm not sure how much I want to go into social skills for the bard. On the one hand, the bard would definitely be better able to fill that niche, and it would take some of the load off the sorcerer a little bit; however, it would also mean that a lot of the skill point investments put into the sorcerer would be made obsolete, which could be kind of lame.
#4 phoenix00 Feb 20, 2011 21:37:02	Eberron Campaign Setting page 34 =Bard Options: The bards of Eberron can customize their bardic music abilities by means of feats, and they have a couple of appropriate prestige class options. ... Flavor Text ... Reﬂecting this connection to the forces of creation, bards have access to a number of feats that extend the powers of their bardic music. A bard can take these feats any time she would normally gain a feat, or can choose one of them as a bonus feat instead of gaining a new form of bardic music at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, or 18th level.These bard feats are Haunting Melody, Music of Growth, Music of Making, Song of the Heart, and Soothe the Beast. So in sum you can give up one of these abilities Inspire competence Suggestion Inspire greatness Song of freedom Inspire heroics or Mass suggestion To get a free bardic music feat such as Song of the Heart. Song of the Heart is from the Eberron Campaign Setting as well and it treats your bardic music as one level higher. Thus an 8th level bard has an inspire courage of +3 instead of +2.
#5 tkdb Feb 20, 2011 21:46:12	Seems like it should be ok, but I should still probably run it by my DM just to make sure.
#6 phoenix00 Feb 20, 2011 22:03:43	Bard 7/Marshal 3 (not in that order necessary)/Sublime Chord 10 Human Race or something with a bonus feat Feats 1 Dragon Touched (to allow you to treat yourself as a sorcerer of your character level for the purpose of getting feats, you need this for Draconic Heritage) 1 Draconic Heritage (Battle, to make your Dragonfire Inspiration Sonic instead of Fire) 3 Dragonfire Inspiration. Allowing you to do both Sonic Damage and traditional Inspire Courage 6 Draconic Aura Senses (for the bonus to initative for the entire party which will be a +2 at level 12 and a +3 at level 14) 9 Words of Creation 12 Open Items Wand of Inspirational Boost (750G, Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round. Swift action to activate, 1st level Bard Spell. There is no reason not to make this a wand since it is a 1st level spell with no caster level effect. Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Intermediate Action to activate. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage. Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher. (There are some other, less important effects.) Thus your bard level is that of a 12th level bard (7+5 from the Vest of Legends) and your Default Inspire Courage is +2 and you get 13 bardic music attempts per day (7 base, 5 Vest of Legends, 1 for you get half your sublime chord level). Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G, 3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves. So your Bardic Music is as follows with Inspire Courage +2 Base (after vest of legends) +1 Song of the Heart +1 Badge of Valor +1 Inspiraitonal Boost +1 Masterwork Horn =+6 modifier Now Words of Creation doubles this, it is debatable if it only doubles the +2 base or the +6 final result thus your total damage is going to be +8 to Attack and Damage or 8d6 Sonic Damage or +12 to Attack and Damage or 12d6 Sonic Damage. For your minor Auras with Marshal you want them to be Motivate Dexertity so you increase the initative of the entire party and Motiviate Charisma so you can give your Cha modifier to you and your Sorcerer charismatic effects Your Spells per day is as follows (cast with a caster level of 9, you can boost this with Song of the Arcane Power) 3 1st, 2 2nd, 0 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th + Bonus Spells You also give your party a +2 bonus to Initative, Listen, and Spot checks due to your Draconic Aura. You can always have your Draconic Aura and your Minor Aura out at the same time, but you can't have your Draconic Aura and your Major Aura out at the same time unless you take another feat called Double Draconic Aura Switch out Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart Note you need an Int and Cha of 15 to do Words of Creation
#7 tkdb Feb 21, 2011 12:09:00	Bard 7/Marshal 3 (not in that order necessary)/Sublime Chord 10 Human Race or something with a bonus feat Feats 1 Dragon Touched (to allow you to treat yourself as a sorcerer of your character level for the purpose of getting feats, you need this for Draconic Heritage) 1 Draconic Heritage (Battle, to make your Dragonfire Inspiration Sonic instead of Fire) 3 Dragonfire Inspiration. Allowing you to do both Sonic Damage and traditional Inspire Courage 6 Draconic Aura Senses (for the bonus to initative for the entire party which will be a +2 at level 12 and a +3 at level 14) 9 Words of Creation 12 Open Items Wand of Inspirational Boost (750G, Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round. Swift action to activate, 1st level Bard Spell. There is no reason not to make this a wand since it is a 1st level spell with no caster level effect. Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Intermediate Action to activate. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage. Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher. (There are some other, less important effects.) Thus your bard level is that of a 12th level bard (7+5 from the Vest of Legends) and your Default Inspire Courage is +2 and you get 13 bardic music attempts per day (7 base, 5 Vest of Legends, 1 for you get half your sublime chord level). Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G, 3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves. So your Bardic Music is as follows with Inspire Courage +2 Base (after vest of legends) +1 Song of the Heart +1 Badge of Valor +1 Inspiraitonal Boost +1 Masterwork Horn =+6 modifier Now Words of Creation doubles this, it is debatable if it only doubles the +2 base or the +6 final result thus your total damage is going to be +8 to Attack and Damage or 8d6 Sonic Damage or +12 to Attack and Damage or 12d6 Sonic Damage. For your minor Auras with Marshal you want them to be Motivate Dexertity so you increase the initative of the entire party and Motiviate Charisma so you can give your Cha modifier to you and your Sorcerer charismatic effects Your Spells per day is as follows (cast with a caster level of 9, you can boost this with Song of the Arcane Power) 3 1st, 2 2nd, 0 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th + Bonus Spells You also give your party a +2 bonus to Initative, Listen, and Spot checks due to your Draconic Aura. You can always have your Draconic Aura and your Minor Aura out at the same time, but you can't have your Draconic Aura and your Major Aura out at the same time unless you take another feat called Double Draconic Aura Switch out Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart Note you need an Int and Cha of 15 to do Words of Creation Looks like a pretty effective build, but it might not be feasible for me. First off, I'd be taking XP penalties for multiclassing. My DM rules that prestige classes count the same as normal classes for multiclass XP penalties. But it doesn't look like it would hurt too terribly much to drop marshal and just go bard/sublime chord. The bigger issue is that it relies a lot on having certain specific magic items to be really effective, and none of them are from the basic DMG. My DM is picking the bulk of the inventory for us, and I know he doesn't like using magic items outside the DMG, so I'm not so sure I'd be able to get ahold of all those items. I'm also not so sure about Words of Creation; we're actually rolling stats, so it might be hard for me to meet the prereqs. Given these restrictions, would I maybe be better off doing a favored soul or something else to fill the support role?
#8 nephril Feb 21, 2011 17:49:17	Bard 7/Marshal 3 (not in that order necessary)/Sublime Chord 10 Human Race or something with a bonus feat Feats 1 Dragon Touched (to allow you to treat yourself as a sorcerer of your character level for the purpose of getting feats, you need this for Draconic Heritage) 1 Draconic Heritage (Battle, to make your Dragonfire Inspiration Sonic instead of Fire) 3 Dragonfire Inspiration. Allowing you to do both Sonic Damage and traditional Inspire Courage 6 Draconic Aura Senses (for the bonus to initative for the entire party which will be a +2 at level 12 and a +3 at level 14) 9 Words of Creation 12 Open Items Wand of Inspirational Boost (750G, Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round. Swift action to activate, 1st level Bard Spell. There is no reason not to make this a wand since it is a 1st level spell with no caster level effect. Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage. Intermediate Action to activate. Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage. Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher. (There are some other, less important effects.) Thus your bard level is that of a 12th level bard (7+5 from the Vest of Legends) and your Default Inspire Courage is +2 and you get 13 bardic music attempts per day (7 base, 5 Vest of Legends, 1 for you get half your sublime chord level). Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G, 3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves. So your Bardic Music is as follows with Inspire Courage +2 Base (after vest of legends) +1 Song of the Heart +1 Badge of Valor +1 Inspiraitonal Boost +1 Masterwork Horn =+6 modifier Now Words of Creation doubles this, it is debatable if it only doubles the +2 base or the +6 final result thus your total damage is going to be +8 to Attack and Damage or 8d6 Sonic Damage or +12 to Attack and Damage or 12d6 Sonic Damage. For your minor Auras with Marshal you want them to be Motivate Dexertity so you increase the initative of the entire party and Motiviate Charisma so you can give your Cha modifier to you and your Sorcerer charismatic effects Your Spells per day is as follows (cast with a caster level of 9, you can boost this with Song of the Arcane Power) 3 1st, 2 2nd, 0 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th + Bonus Spells You also give your party a +2 bonus to Initative, Listen, and Spot checks due to your Draconic Aura. You can always have your Draconic Aura and your Minor Aura out at the same time, but you can't have your Draconic Aura and your Major Aura out at the same time unless you take another feat called Double Draconic Aura Switch out Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart Note you need an Int and Cha of 15 to do Words of Creation god this is why i need to keep my books on me all the time lol. my pdfs are at home too . i have a buddy playing a bardadin that we use some feats from faerun and stuff so im familiar with words of creation however it is to my understanding that words of creation just doubles the amount of your inspiration tha tyou are capable of casting not enhanced with spells or use items. what does work though is vest of legends since it increases your bard level for casting it you cast it at that new level use words of creation to double that then you can apply your enhancements like spells and badge of valor. at level 10 we were seeing a +8 dmg att and save increase whatever the bonus is based on your bard level is what you get to double. so if your doing +3 then that makes it a +6 it doesnt however double the spell enhancement or the item uses. after my work with the class this is what we came up with. its too bad you cant gain access to faerunian books. there is an amazing feat called initiate of milil that lets your pally and bard levels stack for bardic music strength then u get devoted performer (a 3.5 feat) and that increases the number of rounds. we used these two feats in pathfinder with path bard and path paladin it was amazing take one level of bard and 9 levels of paladin and the character is a beast.
#9 phoenix00 Feb 21, 2011 19:33:11	Given these restrictions, would I maybe be better off doing a favored soul or something else to fill the support role? Given these restrictions you have to play something else or your character will suck. My advice is Druid over Favored Soul. Bards need options outside core such as I listed above to shine in combat. They shine outside of combat even in core with the social aspect but if you take over this role you screw your other player the sorcerer. Personally I severely dislike DMs such as yours. Favored Souls are Clerics that suck, they get less spells known, and slower spell progression, all in exchange for a good reflex save, so your reflex saves will be 4 higher than a cleric. The energy resistance and weapon specialization is way inferior than what turn undead brings to the table. Finally you lose the awesomeness that is domains. Here is a base Druid Build Druid 20 Human or something else that gives a bonus feat. Feats 1 Spell Focus Conjuration 1 Augment Summoning 3 Greenbound Summoning (Lost Empires of Faerun) 6 Natural Spell 9 Initiate of Nature (Players Guide to Faerun) 12 Imbued Summoning (PHB2) Learn how to use Druid spells to control the battlefield, Druids are almost as awesome at doing this as conjuration specialists. Summon Nature Ally is awesome. Summon Nature Ally+Ring of the Beast (Complete Champion, treat your summon nature ally as one higher but you can't go higher than your max spell level)+Imbued Summoning means your summons get a free buff spell Summon Unicorns to heal Wildshape Druids heal pretty well too.
#10 nephril Feb 21, 2011 23:49:24	favored souls also have spontaneous casting just thought id mention that. heres something for you to do its all 3.5 the only thing u use is a spell from frostburn. go straight wizard get every spell u can for versatility. now the spells yo will want from forstburn shivering touch and lesser shivering touch. these spells do 1d6 and 3d6 dex damage that has no save at all. then for feats just specialize some enchantment compulsion.
#11 darth_versity Feb 22, 2011 2:48:50	Well it doesn't advance bardic music, but the best PrC ive seen for support bards is the War Weaver. Its only 5 levels so you can finish it by 12 and it allows you to store a number of buff spells to be released as a move action and you can cast single target spells on the whole party at a greater range than the spell allows. Check out the handbook for more info community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...