Building a Two Weapon Fighting Dervish from a Scout - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Building a Two Weapon Fighting Dervish from a Scout

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ObsessedEx
Nov 29, 2010 23:01:44 I'm starting at level 1 in a new campaign, and want to eventually play a TWF Dervish. But the party lacks a Rogue, so I want to fit Scout in at the beginning to take care of our trapfinding needs. I plan to play a Whisper Gnome as we're allowed at least one flaw (can't remember if the DM is allowing two or not). My stat rolls are: 17, 15, 14, 14, 9, 8 (may or may not get to reroll these).

I've tried looking at the various handbooks and making posts myself, but I just couldn't gather much info on getting to Dervish with a Scout. I was considering Scout 3/Swashbuckler 3, but don't know if that would be worth it compared to just using Scout/Fighter.

That, and I keep hearing mixed responses about the effectiveness of TWF, and which weapons are best to use with it.

Any build suggestions would be appreciated.
#2
ikildkenny
Nov 30, 2010 4:42:50 firstof - why scout/rouge?? as long as you're only aiming for Trapfinding (and maybe various Skills) you'll be far better off with Trapfinding Ranger (Dungeonscape) ...

further, the ACF for Swashbuckler's Grace (that Arcane something) could come in quite handy (Spiderclimb for dancing on the cealing^^)

last but not least - a Kung-Fu geniuos (dragon) or Carmedine Monk (Campions of Valor) is allmost essential for an int-focused-no-heavy-armor-fighter-ish build ..

that said ... Whisper Gnome is OK, but consider Grey Elf as an alternative - you do want to have elven thinblades as you main weapon(s) an you could ask your DM to treat those as martial weapons as long as you are elven...

but ... as a whisper gnome, it could look like this:

Trapfinding Ranger 1 (EWP Elven Thinblade, Flaw: Combat Expertise)
Swashbuckler 1 (Bonus Feat: Weapin Finess)
Cobra Strike Monk (UA, Bonus Feat: Dodge, Feat: Carmedine Monk)
Ranger 2 (Bonus feat: TWF)
Monk 2 ( Bonus Feat: Mobility)
Swashbuckler 2 (Weapon Focus: Elven Thinblade, ACF Arcane Something)
Swashbuckler 3
Dervish 1
Dervish 2 (improved Kritical: Elven Thinblade)

Stats:

Str 14 - 12
Dex 15 - 17
Con 14 - 16
Int 17
Wis 8
Cha 9 - 7

put your lvl 4 attribute into Dex, lvl 8 into Int ... the rest is up to you
#3
dr.durothil
Nov 30, 2010 12:52:32 I find that Ranger meshes rather well with Scout, since there is a feat (in Complete Adventurer, I think) that allows your Ranger levels to stack with Scout for the purpose of skirmish damage.

Since the Ranger has a full BAB, TWF and almost as many skill points as a Scout, I think it fits well with your build...

In any case, try to get as many levels of Dervish as you can. This class is just SO abusive...
#4
ObsessedEx
Nov 30, 2010 14:56:52 A bit of a change: The DM decided to let us roll d20s for our stats instead, so my new scores are 20 20 17 16 15 13.

About that build posted, why would you use Elven Thinblades? The book says they're piercing weapons, so they won't benefit from the Dervish's bonuses to slashing weapons.
#5
ObsidianConspiracy
Nov 30, 2010 15:03:58
firstof - why scout/rouge?? as long as you're only aiming for Trapfinding (and maybe various Skills) you'll be far better off with Trapfinding Ranger (Dungeonscape) ...

Synergy with Dervish Dance... it's incredibly abusive if you get it working right. Because you're skirmishing with each attack as you dance, and strike multiple enemies. It's just a shame that Dervish is quite feat heavy, and hard for a straight scout to qualify for, so yes scout + Ranger is probably the best way to go, and stack the levels. Make sure to pick up improved skirmish
#6
ObsessedEx
Nov 30, 2010 16:26:11 Now that I think about it, if Skirmish requires you to move in order to activate, but multiple attacks from TWF requires a full-round action, how are you supposed to get them to work together? I mean, I understand how it works during a Dervish Dance, but what do I do in the levels before Dervish? Should I just not bother with TWF until then or what?
#7
ObsidianConspiracy
Nov 30, 2010 17:03:51 I found, when, funnily enough, I played a Dervish/scout that I was doing about the same damage when I made a TWF attack as I did when I was skirmishing... if you're TWFing you kind of need to build it up from lower levels... in my opinion. Because you can still make a charge attack, then in the following turns hammer the opponent with two weapons. OR another possibility is get a spear until you have dervish levels. Remember you're still limited how many times per day you can dance.

Two weapon pounce in PHB II lets you use both weapons on a charge... however... dipping one level of barbarian, Spirit lion totem + whirling frenzy nets you an extra mainhand attack AND pounce... so a full attack on the charge
#8
bigtuna
Dec 02, 2010 3:36:37 Could look into 3 lvl binder + imp binding - and then bind Paimon for +4 dex, dance of death every 5 rounds, (only per encounter) weapon finesse (make it a dex build) - then perhaps swordsage for shadow blade..

But if you also have a look here:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
and here:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

There is some great stuff in there...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ObsessedEx Nov 29, 2010 23:01:44	I'm starting at level 1 in a new campaign, and want to eventually play a TWF Dervish. But the party lacks a Rogue, so I want to fit Scout in at the beginning to take care of our trapfinding needs. I plan to play a Whisper Gnome as we're allowed at least one flaw (can't remember if the DM is allowing two or not). My stat rolls are: 17, 15, 14, 14, 9, 8 (may or may not get to reroll these). I've tried looking at the various handbooks and making posts myself, but I just couldn't gather much info on getting to Dervish with a Scout. I was considering Scout 3/Swashbuckler 3, but don't know if that would be worth it compared to just using Scout/Fighter. That, and I keep hearing mixed responses about the effectiveness of TWF, and which weapons are best to use with it. Any build suggestions would be appreciated.
#2 ikildkenny Nov 30, 2010 4:42:50	firstof - why scout/rouge?? as long as you're only aiming for Trapfinding (and maybe various Skills) you'll be far better off with Trapfinding Ranger (Dungeonscape) ... further, the ACF for Swashbuckler's Grace (that Arcane something) could come in quite handy (Spiderclimb for dancing on the cealing^^) last but not least - a Kung-Fu geniuos (dragon) or Carmedine Monk (Campions of Valor) is allmost essential for an int-focused-no-heavy-armor-fighter-ish build .. that said ... Whisper Gnome is OK, but consider Grey Elf as an alternative - you do want to have elven thinblades as you main weapon(s) an you could ask your DM to treat those as martial weapons as long as you are elven... but ... as a whisper gnome, it could look like this: Trapfinding Ranger 1 (EWP Elven Thinblade, Flaw: Combat Expertise) Swashbuckler 1 (Bonus Feat: Weapin Finess) Cobra Strike Monk (UA, Bonus Feat: Dodge, Feat: Carmedine Monk) Ranger 2 (Bonus feat: TWF) Monk 2 ( Bonus Feat: Mobility) Swashbuckler 2 (Weapon Focus: Elven Thinblade, ACF Arcane Something) Swashbuckler 3 Dervish 1 Dervish 2 (improved Kritical: Elven Thinblade) Stats: Str 14 - 12 Dex 15 - 17 Con 14 - 16 Int 17 Wis 8 Cha 9 - 7 put your lvl 4 attribute into Dex, lvl 8 into Int ... the rest is up to you
#3 dr.durothil Nov 30, 2010 12:52:32	I find that Ranger meshes rather well with Scout, since there is a feat (in Complete Adventurer, I think) that allows your Ranger levels to stack with Scout for the purpose of skirmish damage. Since the Ranger has a full BAB, TWF and almost as many skill points as a Scout, I think it fits well with your build... In any case, try to get as many levels of Dervish as you can. This class is just SO abusive...
#4 ObsessedEx Nov 30, 2010 14:56:52	A bit of a change: The DM decided to let us roll d20s for our stats instead, so my new scores are 20 20 17 16 15 13. About that build posted, why would you use Elven Thinblades? The book says they're piercing weapons, so they won't benefit from the Dervish's bonuses to slashing weapons.
#5 ObsidianConspiracy Nov 30, 2010 15:03:58	firstof - why scout/rouge?? as long as you're only aiming for Trapfinding (and maybe various Skills) you'll be far better off with Trapfinding Ranger (Dungeonscape) ... Synergy with Dervish Dance... it's incredibly abusive if you get it working right. Because you're skirmishing with each attack as you dance, and strike multiple enemies. It's just a shame that Dervish is quite feat heavy, and hard for a straight scout to qualify for, so yes scout + Ranger is probably the best way to go, and stack the levels. Make sure to pick up improved skirmish
#6 ObsessedEx Nov 30, 2010 16:26:11	Now that I think about it, if Skirmish requires you to move in order to activate, but multiple attacks from TWF requires a full-round action, how are you supposed to get them to work together? I mean, I understand how it works during a Dervish Dance, but what do I do in the levels before Dervish? Should I just not bother with TWF until then or what?
#7 ObsidianConspiracy Nov 30, 2010 17:03:51	I found, when, funnily enough, I played a Dervish/scout that I was doing about the same damage when I made a TWF attack as I did when I was skirmishing... if you're TWFing you kind of need to build it up from lower levels... in my opinion. Because you can still make a charge attack, then in the following turns hammer the opponent with two weapons. OR another possibility is get a spear until you have dervish levels. Remember you're still limited how many times per day you can dance. Two weapon pounce in PHB II lets you use both weapons on a charge... however... dipping one level of barbarian, Spirit lion totem + whirling frenzy nets you an extra mainhand attack AND pounce... so a full attack on the charge
#8 bigtuna Dec 02, 2010 3:36:37	Could look into 3 lvl binder + imp binding - and then bind Paimon for +4 dex, dance of death every 5 rounds, (only per encounter) weapon finesse (make it a dex build) - then perhaps swordsage for shadow blade.. But if you also have a look here: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... and here: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... There is some great stuff in there...