Building/Playing a high level Shadowcraft Mage - any advice? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ElfenLied Aug 20, 2008 7:44:45	Hello all, next week, I'll rejoin my gaming group (been absent for the last 4 months due to a business trip). The group is currently L19, has wealth slightly above the given value in the DMG, and the setting is Forgotten Realms. These are their characters: -CG Human Rogue/Swashbuckler w/ Daring Outlaw. The player himself is rather inexperienced in terms of CO, but has a lot of fun with the character. Plays his character primarily as a damage dealer. -N Human Druid/Warshaper. Started with the Shapeshifting variant ("forced" on him by the DM), but was recently allowed to change into a "real" Druid, since the nerfed variant just didn't perform well. He is the party's tank. -CN Drow Wizard/Mage of the Arcane Order/Archmage. Uses the Elf Wizard substitution levels, and has bought off his LA. A houserule allows him to draw upon 10x the Spellpool value given in CA. Plays his character as a mix between Blaster and Utility/Battlefield Control. Warning, may contain some ranting Now, onwards with my choice of character to play. Most 3.5 books are allowed, with the notable exception of Tome of Battle. While I could probably get it allowed with some heavy arguing, it would cause some whining on part of the rogue player, since he's the very reason why this book got disallowed in the first place (he wants to be a top tier melee damage dealer, but is extremely inexperienced with building characters, let alone CharOP. ToB is too complicated for him). While I have no respect for whining, all the players and the DM in the group are still my friends, so I wish to avoid this issue. Besides, the melee base is pretty much covered. Which leaves me with the next option: Playing a caster. Normally, with the role of Arcane caster, Big Stupid Fighter and Glass Cannon covered, the obvious choice would be a divine caster. But here's the next issue: I will probably (that is, with a 90% guarantee) be "forced" to play a good-aligned character, so most of the spells I actually like will be off-limit (I tend to prefer Necromancy-oriented clerics), as will Rebuke Undead be. What's worse, you actually have to choose a Patron Diety in Faerun, so custom-tailored Domain selections will be a no-go. As if that wasn't enough, DMM(Persistent Spell) is disallowed, so I see little to no incentive to actually play a divine Spellcaster in this campaign. My choices would have either been a Binder1/Archivist3/Anima Mage10/Tenebrous Apostate5 or a Warlock/Cleric/True Necromancer (see Necrosis under the "Triad of Shadows" thread for details), but both aren't viable under the circumstances, and I really don't enjoy being a gimp healbot. Rant ends here. What else is left, if physical combatants and divine spellcasters are out? Arcane Spellcasters. Our current wizard favors blasting over control, so I think I should go the God/Batman route, as defined by TreantmonkL20 and LogicNinja, respectively. However, I've little actual gaming experience with a high-level arcane caster, and despite reading through numerous handbooks, I'm rather at a loss with the huge number of options. Thus far, I've decided on a Whispergnome Shadowcraft Mage. The builds will either be Beguiler1/Illusionist4/Ultimate Magus10/Shadowcraft Mage4 or Illusionist5/Incantatrix10/Shadowcraft Mage4. In both cases, I will be using the Gnome Illusionist Substitution variant, but I’m not sure yet if Illusion Mastery from UA is worth the loss of Focused Specialisation. Either way, I’m not sure yet which build is superior. Anyway, how can I contribute towards group, particularly without creating redundancy between my character and the Drow Wizard? I will have access to most 3.5 spells (with Spell Compendium and the Completes), but Time Stop and the Celerity spells have been banned. Ideally, I should be able to cover the things he can’t, and vice versa. I can detail out the builds, if it helps.
#2 phaedrusxy Aug 20, 2008 11:52:55	You can get into SCM as a cleric. If the DM will let a Heightened 2nd level Shadow spell qualify you, you can do it with a good gnome deity. If not, you're basically forced into worshipping Cyric.
#3 ElfenLied Aug 21, 2008 7:27:37	Hmm, this idea looks pretty neat, thanks! However, will it be competitive in the current group setup? We're talking about competing with a 10xSpellpool Batman Wizard and a CODzilla Druid, DMM(Persist) isn't available, and Nightsticks are limited to 1. Also, how do you actually play in a high-level environment as a Shadowcraft Mage? The way I understand it, I can mimic any Evocation and Conjuration(Creation/Summoning) spell up to ninth level, as long as I stand on the ground, or up to eigth level if I'm flying, correct? This makes the character very versatile, to the point where I'm afraid I that I won't always be making the right choices. How would you advance your sample character, if he had to be ECL19? I'm not too sure about Shadowcrafter, since I don't know if his special ability actually works with the Shadow Illusions class feature. Could you recommend a few PrCs that work well with it? The only one I've found thus far is the Dweomerkeeper (since it's good with pretty much anything, lol). Here are my arcane builds thus far: Ultimate Magus Show Whisper Gnome Beguiler1/Illusionist4/Ultimate Magus10/Shadowcraft Mage4 Feats: 1: Practised Spellcaster(Beguiler) Bonus: Improved Initiative (swapped in for "Scribe Scroll") 3: Heighten Spell 6: Earth Sense Bonus: Empower Spell 9: Earth Spell Bonus: Quicken Spell 12: Signature Spell (silent Image) 15: Extend Spell 18: Arcane Thesis (silent Image) Gnome Illusionist substitution levels from Races of Stone, Chains of Disbelief and Illusion Mastery from UA (banned schools: Evocation, Enchantment). I'm not really sure about Illusion Mastery; while it allows me to spontaneously use Silent Image, sacrificing extra spell slots and barring myself from Focused Specialisation hurts somewhat. Also, could my choice of feats be further optimized?
#4 phaedrusxy Aug 21, 2008 12:06:13	Yes, they are very versatile. That is their main strength at high levels. You'd definitely need to do alot of homework beforehand, if you want to play one well. Even as a cleric-based SCM, you're going to overlap alot with the wizard. You'll just be able to do alot of what he does spontaneously, whereas he'll have to plan ahead for everything when preparing spells. Dweomerkeeper would certainly be a good PrC to mix with this, heh. The version I actually played of this was 10th level with the half-fey template (for free), and I didn't abuse DMM Heighten, and wasn't allowed to use flaws. Here is the sheet for that, if you think it might be useful.
#5 reis Aug 21, 2008 16:20:04	xorn movement is better for you than flying much of the time
#6 arcane-surge Aug 21, 2008 23:35:28	An important note about Earth Spell. The feat specifies "Stone or unworked earth." Earth, not THE earth. Feel free to put some dirt in your boots and go to town.
#7 reis Aug 22, 2008 1:05:06	An important note about Earth Spell. The feat specifies "Stone or unworked earth." Earth, not THE earth. Feel free to put some dirt in your boots and go to town. it says "as long as you are standing on stone or unworked earth". If you are flying, you are not standing on anything. If you are standing in your boots with rocks in them on a wood floor, I think it's pretty clear that this doesn't fit the conditions of the feat. To put it another way, if I walked up to someone on the street and asked them what they were standing on and they said "the insoles of my shoes", that would seem a tad askew.
#8 arcane-surge Aug 22, 2008 8:12:27	But you are standing on the insoles of your shoes, regardless of whether or not the average person thinks they are, assuming that "You" does not include your shoes. If there's a rock in my shoe, I can feel it in there because I'm standing on a rock. I'll definitely agree that it's not how the feat was intended to work, but it does work that way, even if it takes a bit to get your head around.
#9 zerosum Aug 22, 2008 12:20:07	That's some quite horrible RAW-twisting there. I know this is CO and we love our RAW but please, RAI isn't totally meaningless.
#10 ElfenLied Aug 23, 2008 7:38:18	Ok guys, thanks for the advice so far. I've compiled a list of spells that would work well with the Shadow Illusion class feature, and I'd really appreciate it if you could point out some interesting ones I missed. Show 1.Conjuration: Grease, Lesser Orb of X, Mage Armor, Mount, Obscuring Mist, Wall of Smoke, 1.Evocation: Magic Missile, 2.Conjuration: Fog Cloud, Glitterdust, Web, Cloud of Bewilderment, Create Magic Tattoo, Ice Knife 2.Evocation: Seeking Ray, Scorching Ray, Bigby’s Warding Hand, Gust of Wind, Ray of Ice, Shatter, Force Ladder 3.Conjuration: Phantom Steed, Stinking Cloud, Acid Breath, Corpse Candle, Ice Lance, Greater Mage Armor, Regal Procession 3.Evocation: Great Thunderclap, Manyjaws, Blacklight, Wind Wall, Ghost Lantern, Sonorous Hum, 4.Conjuration: Black Tentacles, Secure Shelter, Solid Fog, Orb of X, 4.Evocation: Ice Storm, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Crushing Grip, Wall of Ice, Wings of Flurry 5.Conjuration: Cloudkill, Major Creation, Secret Chest, Wall of Stone, Acid Sheath, Phantasmal Thief, Vitriolic Sphere, 5.Evocation: Wall of Force, Bigby’s Interposing Hand, Mass Fire Shield 6.Conjuration: Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Freezing Fog, Wall of Gears, 6.Evocation: Howling Chain, Contingency, Bigby’s Forceful Hand, Thunder Field, 7.Conjuration: Stun Ray, 7.Evocation: Bigby’s Grasping Hand, Forcecage, 8.Conjuration: 8.Evocation: 9.Conjuration: Gate, Genius Loci, Sphere of Ultimate Destruction, Summon Elemental Monolith, Summon Golem, 9.Evocation: Instant Refuge, Miracle (with Arcane Disciple)
#11 arcane-surge Aug 23, 2008 11:49:38	Umm...I'm sure it's a mistake, but your Shadowcraft Mage/Incantatrix is going to have a hard time getting by when he's banned the Illusion school.
#12 reis Aug 23, 2008 13:50:14	ban enchantment instead
#13 ElfenLied Aug 23, 2008 20:18:07	It was a typo, I actually meant Enchantment.
#14 gorfnad_the_shiznit Aug 23, 2008 22:20:01	Have you looked into The Killer Gnome or the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook?
#15 ElfenLied Aug 23, 2008 22:43:12	Have you looked into The Killer Gnome or the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook? Yes, I have, that's where I got the original idea from. There are just so many ways of building a Shadowcraft Mage, so I'm rather unsure about how to do it right. Anyway, which one of the builds do you guys think is the most viable?
#16 archerpwr Aug 24, 2008 14:54:18	I'm a gigantic fan of the incantatrix SCM. The reduced cost on heighten is huge. You blow a 4th level slot to cast a 5th level spell. Get iron will via the location in complete scoundrel and use the open feat to grab residual magic out of complete mage. I'd drop empower and still for twin and repeat. Remember kiddies, with you get a -2 reduction on each metacost so long as it is more than +1. Quicken is only a +2 adjustment, so you can burn a 6th level slot to get a 5th level as a swift action. Net cost? One spell level for autoquicken. So, prepare a lot of heavily metamagicked silent images. Incantatrix SCMs are hardcore. Other notes: Your ninteenth level should be nightmare spinner. An extra spell at every level is worth a CL.
#17 ElfenLied Aug 29, 2008 5:33:23	Ah, gaining Iron Will via Otyugh hole seems to be a very good idea, thanks! So, the finished build should look somewhat like this: Show Whisper Gnome Illusionist5/Incantatrix10/Shadowcraft Mage3/(Nightmare Spinner1/Shadowcraft Mage+1) Feats: 1: Heighten Spell [Flaw: Spell Focus (Illusion)] Bonus: Improved Initiative (swapped in for "Scribe Scroll") 3: Twin Spell [Otyugh Hole: Iron Will] 6: Earth Sense, [Bonus: Extend Spell] 9: Earth Spell Bonus: Quicken Spell 12: Signature Spell (silent Image) Bonus: Empower Spell/Repeat Spell 15: Residual Magic Bonus: Persistent Spell 18: Arcane Thesis (Silent Image) Gnome Illusionist substitution levels from Races of Stone. Alternate Classfeatures: Chains of Disbelief, Illusion Mastery Banned Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, [Incantatrix: Necromancy]
#18 carnivore Aug 29, 2008 5:43:04	you could also do something fun like this: Whisper Gnome Beguiler 6/ Rainbow Servant 10/ Shadowcraft mage 4 gain all the Beguiler spells + Cleric Spells + Shadowcraft mage abilities + Trapfinding and great Skills on top of everything else very versatile and fun :D
#19 archerpwr Aug 29, 2008 23:54:54	you could also do something fun like this: Whisper Gnome Beguiler 6/ Rainbow Servant 10/ Shadowcraft mage 4 gain all the Beguiler spells + Cleric Spells + Shadowcraft mage abilities + Trapfinding and great Skills on top of everything else very versatile and fun :D And only 8th level spells. Get that crap out of this thread. Sorry carnivore, but a build should be optimal before it should be suggested on CO. @Elfen: A couple things I forgot to add: 1) Take another flaw if you can to get spontaneous divination(complete champion). 2) Depending on your gouda level, take arcane disciple(miracle). The miracles out of cantrips is too good to pass up IMO. This ranks above spontaneous divination. Drop signature spell to do this. There's nothing wrong with preparing half of your spells as the most versatile spell ever.
#20 Wyvernhand Aug 31, 2008 14:16:50	And only 8th level spells. Get that crap out of this thread. Sorry carnivore, but a build should be optimal before it should be suggested on CO. @Elfen: A couple things I forgot to add: 1) Take another flaw if you can to get spontaneous divination(complete champion). 2) Depending on your gouda level, take arcane disciple(miracle). The miracles out of cantrips is too good to pass up IMO. This ranks above spontaneous divination. Drop signature spell to do this. There's nothing wrong with preparing half of your spells as the most versatile spell ever. In all fairness to Carnivore, that build is really good provided the DM subscribes to the Text Trumps Table priciple. Then RS is 10/10 caster, rather than 6/10. This isn't the thread to debate that topic though.
#21 archerpwr Aug 31, 2008 16:42:58	In all fairness to Carnivore, that build is really good provided the DM subscribes to the Text Trumps Table priciple. Then RS is 10/10 caster, rather than 6/10. This isn't the thread to debate that topic though. Fair 'nuff. Still better with a real caster though.
#22 thalspar Dec 13, 2008 7:58:55	if you need that extra +1 to Cl you might think of joining the ranks of Fingers of the laughing rogue deticated to Olimammara since when you get to rank 4 you get +1 to Cl when casting illusion spells or spells of the Trickery domain. and then for you cleric build CG should do the trick:D
#23 ninjarabbit Dec 13, 2008 20:39:12	You could also take the Complete Champion variant wizard that trades your 5th level wizard feat for the ability to spontaneously cast divination spells that you know, being able to cast divination, conjuration, and evocation spells spontaneously is nice.
#24 thegodhead Dec 14, 2008 2:14:57	Raise thread. Every good wizard bans that school.
#25 Endarire Dec 20, 2008 3:17:11	Earth Spell should work if you have stone in your shoes since that's what Earth Spell requires.
#26 jaronk Dec 20, 2008 4:12:59	it says "as long as you are standing on stone or unworked earth". If you are flying, you are not standing on anything. If you are standing in your boots with rocks in them on a wood floor, I think it's pretty clear that this doesn't fit the conditions of the feat. To put it another way, if I walked up to someone on the street and asked them what they were standing on and they said "the insoles of my shoes", that would seem a tad askew. Heck with that. Greater Floating Disk is a fourth level spell, and even a 10th level Shadowcraft Mage will be able to cast it, with Earth Spell, at a duration that lasts all day. Put a slab of rock on it and be done with this debate. Anyway, if you want divine casting and Shadowcraft Mage, and DMM isn't available... Archivist FTW. JaronK

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

ElfenLied

Aug 20, 2008 7:44:45

Hello all,
next week, I'll rejoin my gaming group (been absent for the last 4 months due to a business trip). The group is currently L19, has wealth slightly above the given value in the DMG, and the setting is Forgotten Realms.

These are their characters:
-CG Human Rogue/Swashbuckler w/ Daring Outlaw. The player himself is rather inexperienced in terms of CO, but has a lot of fun with the character. Plays his character primarily as a damage dealer.
-N Human Druid/Warshaper. Started with the Shapeshifting variant ("forced" on him by the DM), but was recently allowed to change into a "real" Druid, since the nerfed variant just didn't perform well. He is the party's tank.
-CN Drow Wizard/Mage of the Arcane Order/Archmage. Uses the Elf Wizard substitution levels, and has bought off his LA. A houserule allows him to draw upon 10x the Spellpool value given in CA. Plays his character as a mix between Blaster and Utility/Battlefield Control.

Warning, may contain some ranting

Now, onwards with my choice of character to play. Most 3.5 books are allowed, with the notable exception of Tome of Battle. While I could probably get it allowed with some heavy arguing, it would cause some whining on part of the rogue player, since he's the very reason why this book got disallowed in the first place (he wants to be a top tier melee damage dealer, but is extremely inexperienced with building characters, let alone CharOP. ToB is too complicated for him). While I have no respect for whining, all the players and the DM in the group are still my friends, so I wish to avoid this issue. Besides, the melee base is pretty much covered.

Which leaves me with the next option: Playing a caster. Normally, with the role of Arcane caster, Big Stupid Fighter and Glass Cannon covered, the obvious choice would be a divine caster. But here's the next issue: I will probably (that is, with a 90% guarantee) be "forced" to play a good-aligned character, so most of the spells I actually like will be off-limit (I tend to prefer Necromancy-oriented clerics), as will Rebuke Undead be. What's worse, you actually have to choose a Patron Diety in Faerun, so custom-tailored Domain selections will be a no-go. As if that wasn't enough, DMM(Persistent Spell) is disallowed, so I see little to no incentive to actually play a divine Spellcaster in this campaign. My choices would have either been a Binder1/Archivist3/Anima Mage10/Tenebrous Apostate5 or a Warlock/Cleric/True Necromancer (see Necrosis under the "Triad of Shadows" thread for details), but both aren't viable under the circumstances, and I really don't enjoy being a gimp healbot.

Rant ends here.

What else is left, if physical combatants and divine spellcasters are out? Arcane Spellcasters. Our current wizard favors blasting over control, so I think I should go the God/Batman route, as defined by TreantmonkL20 and LogicNinja, respectively. However, I've little actual gaming experience with a high-level arcane caster, and despite reading through numerous handbooks, I'm rather at a loss with the huge number of options.

Thus far, I've decided on a Whispergnome Shadowcraft Mage. The builds will either be Beguiler1/Illusionist4/Ultimate Magus10/Shadowcraft Mage4 or Illusionist5/Incantatrix10/Shadowcraft Mage4. In both cases, I will be using the Gnome Illusionist Substitution variant, but I’m not sure yet if Illusion Mastery from UA is worth the loss of Focused Specialisation. Either way, I’m not sure yet which build is superior.

Anyway, how can I contribute towards group, particularly without creating redundancy between my character and the Drow Wizard? I will have access to most 3.5 spells (with Spell Compendium and the Completes), but Time Stop and the Celerity spells have been banned. Ideally, I should be able to cover the things he can’t, and vice versa. I can detail out the builds, if it helps.

phaedrusxy

Aug 20, 2008 11:52:55

You can get into SCM as a cleric. If the DM will let a Heightened 2nd level Shadow spell qualify you, you can do it with a good gnome deity. If not, you're basically forced into worshipping Cyric.

ElfenLied

Aug 21, 2008 7:27:37

Hmm, this idea looks pretty neat, thanks! However, will it be competitive in the current group setup? We're talking about competing with a 10xSpellpool Batman Wizard and a CODzilla Druid, DMM(Persist) isn't available, and Nightsticks are limited to 1.

Also, how do you actually play in a high-level environment as a Shadowcraft Mage? The way I understand it, I can mimic any Evocation and Conjuration(Creation/Summoning) spell up to ninth level, as long as I stand on the ground, or up to eigth level if I'm flying, correct? This makes the character very versatile, to the point where I'm afraid I that I won't always be making the right choices.

How would you advance your sample character, if he had to be ECL19? I'm not too sure about Shadowcrafter, since I don't know if his special ability actually works with the Shadow Illusions class feature. Could you recommend a few PrCs that work well with it? The only one I've found thus far is the Dweomerkeeper (since it's good with pretty much anything, lol).

Here are my arcane builds thus far:
Ultimate Magus

Show

Whisper Gnome Beguiler1/Illusionist4/Ultimate Magus10/Shadowcraft Mage4
Feats:
1: Practised Spellcaster(Beguiler)
Bonus: Improved Initiative (swapped in for "Scribe Scroll")
3: Heighten Spell
6: Earth Sense
Bonus: Empower Spell
9: Earth Spell
Bonus: Quicken Spell
12: Signature Spell (silent Image)
15: Extend Spell
18: Arcane Thesis (silent Image)

Gnome Illusionist substitution levels from Races of Stone, Chains of Disbelief and Illusion Mastery from UA (banned schools: Evocation, Enchantment). I'm not really sure about Illusion Mastery; while it allows me to spontaneously use Silent Image, sacrificing extra spell slots and barring myself from Focused Specialisation hurts somewhat. Also, could my choice of feats be further optimized?

phaedrusxy

Aug 21, 2008 12:06:13

Yes, they are very versatile. That is their main strength at high levels. You'd definitely need to do alot of homework beforehand, if you want to play one well. Even as a cleric-based SCM, you're going to overlap alot with the wizard. You'll just be able to do alot of what he does spontaneously, whereas he'll have to plan ahead for everything when preparing spells.

Dweomerkeeper would certainly be a good PrC to mix with this, heh. The version I actually played of this was 10th level with the half-fey template (for free), and I didn't abuse DMM Heighten, and wasn't allowed to use flaws. Here is the sheet for that, if you think it might be useful.

reis

Aug 21, 2008 16:20:04

xorn movement is better for you than flying much of the time

arcane-surge

Aug 21, 2008 23:35:28

An important note about Earth Spell. The feat specifies "Stone or unworked earth." Earth, not THE earth. Feel free to put some dirt in your boots and go to town.

reis

Aug 22, 2008 1:05:06

An important note about Earth Spell. The feat specifies "Stone or unworked earth." Earth, not THE earth. Feel free to put some dirt in your boots and go to town.

it says "as long as you are standing on stone or unworked earth". If you are flying, you are not standing on anything. If you are standing in your boots with rocks in them on a wood floor, I think it's pretty clear that this doesn't fit the conditions of the feat.

To put it another way, if I walked up to someone on the street and asked them what they were standing on and they said "the insoles of my shoes", that would seem a tad askew.

arcane-surge

Aug 22, 2008 8:12:27

But you are standing on the insoles of your shoes, regardless of whether or not the average person thinks they are, assuming that "You" does not include your shoes. If there's a rock in my shoe, I can feel it in there because I'm standing on a rock. I'll definitely agree that it's not how the feat was intended to work, but it does work that way, even if it takes a bit to get your head around.

zerosum

Aug 22, 2008 12:20:07

That's some quite horrible RAW-twisting there. I know this is CO and we love our RAW but please, RAI isn't totally meaningless.

#10

ElfenLied

Aug 23, 2008 7:38:18

Ok guys, thanks for the advice so far. I've compiled a list of spells that would work well with the Shadow Illusion class feature, and I'd really appreciate it if you could point out some interesting ones I missed.

Show

1.Conjuration: Grease, Lesser Orb of X, Mage Armor, Mount, Obscuring Mist, Wall of Smoke,
1.Evocation: Magic Missile,
2.Conjuration: Fog Cloud, Glitterdust, Web, Cloud of Bewilderment, Create Magic Tattoo, Ice Knife
2.Evocation: Seeking Ray, Scorching Ray, Bigby’s Warding Hand, Gust of Wind, Ray of Ice, Shatter, Force Ladder
3.Conjuration: Phantom Steed, Stinking Cloud, Acid Breath, Corpse Candle, Ice Lance, Greater Mage Armor, Regal Procession
3.Evocation: Great Thunderclap, Manyjaws, Blacklight, Wind Wall, Ghost Lantern, Sonorous Hum,
4.Conjuration: Black Tentacles, Secure Shelter, Solid Fog, Orb of X,
4.Evocation: Ice Storm, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Crushing Grip, Wall of Ice, Wings of Flurry
5.Conjuration: Cloudkill, Major Creation, Secret Chest, Wall of Stone, Acid Sheath, Phantasmal Thief, Vitriolic Sphere,
5.Evocation: Wall of Force, Bigby’s Interposing Hand, Mass Fire Shield
6.Conjuration: Acid Fog, Wall of Iron, Freezing Fog, Wall of Gears,
6.Evocation: Howling Chain, Contingency, Bigby’s Forceful Hand, Thunder Field,
7.Conjuration: Stun Ray,
7.Evocation: Bigby’s Grasping Hand, Forcecage,
8.Conjuration:
8.Evocation:
9.Conjuration: Gate, Genius Loci, Sphere of Ultimate Destruction, Summon Elemental Monolith, Summon Golem,
9.Evocation: Instant Refuge, Miracle (with Arcane Disciple)

#11

arcane-surge

Aug 23, 2008 11:49:38

Umm...I'm sure it's a mistake, but your Shadowcraft Mage/Incantatrix is going to have a hard time getting by when he's banned the Illusion school.

#12

reis

Aug 23, 2008 13:50:14

ban enchantment instead

#13

ElfenLied

Aug 23, 2008 20:18:07

It was a typo, I actually meant Enchantment.

#14

gorfnad_the_shiznit

Aug 23, 2008 22:20:01

Have you looked into The Killer Gnome or the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook?

#15

ElfenLied

Aug 23, 2008 22:43:12

Have you looked into The Killer Gnome or the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook?

Yes, I have, that's where I got the original idea from. There are just so many ways of building a Shadowcraft Mage, so I'm rather unsure about how to do it right.

Anyway, which one of the builds do you guys think is the most viable?

#16

archerpwr

Aug 24, 2008 14:54:18

I'm a gigantic fan of the incantatrix SCM. The reduced cost on heighten is huge. You blow a 4th level slot to cast a 5th level spell. Get iron will via the location in complete scoundrel and use the open feat to grab residual magic out of complete mage. I'd drop empower and still for twin and repeat. Remember kiddies, with you get a -2 reduction on each metacost so long as it is more than +1. Quicken is only a +2 adjustment, so you can burn a 6th level slot to get a 5th level as a swift action. Net cost? One spell level for autoquicken. So, prepare a lot of heavily metamagicked silent images.

Incantatrix SCMs are hardcore.

Other notes:
Your ninteenth level should be nightmare spinner. An extra spell at every level is worth a CL.

#17

ElfenLied

Aug 29, 2008 5:33:23

Ah, gaining Iron Will via Otyugh hole seems to be a very good idea, thanks!

So, the finished build should look somewhat like this:

Show

Whisper Gnome Illusionist5/Incantatrix10/Shadowcraft Mage3/(Nightmare Spinner1/Shadowcraft Mage+1)
Feats:
1: Heighten Spell [Flaw: Spell Focus (Illusion)]
Bonus: Improved Initiative (swapped in for "Scribe Scroll")
3: Twin Spell [Otyugh Hole: Iron Will]
6: Earth Sense, [Bonus: Extend Spell]
9: Earth Spell
Bonus: Quicken Spell
12: Signature Spell (silent Image)
Bonus: Empower Spell/Repeat Spell
15: Residual Magic
Bonus: Persistent Spell
18: Arcane Thesis (Silent Image)

Gnome Illusionist substitution levels from Races of Stone.
Alternate Classfeatures: Chains of Disbelief, Illusion Mastery
Banned Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, [Incantatrix: Necromancy]

#18

carnivore

Aug 29, 2008 5:43:04

you could also do something fun like this:

Whisper Gnome

Beguiler 6/ Rainbow Servant 10/ Shadowcraft mage 4

gain all the Beguiler spells + Cleric Spells + Shadowcraft mage abilities + Trapfinding and great Skills on top of everything else

very versatile and fun

:D

#19

archerpwr

Aug 29, 2008 23:54:54

you could also do something fun like this:

Whisper Gnome

Beguiler 6/ Rainbow Servant 10/ Shadowcraft mage 4

gain all the Beguiler spells + Cleric Spells + Shadowcraft mage abilities + Trapfinding and great Skills on top of everything else

very versatile and fun

:D

And only 8th level spells. Get that crap out of this thread. Sorry carnivore, but a build should be optimal before it should be suggested on CO.

@Elfen: A couple things I forgot to add:
1) Take another flaw if you can to get spontaneous divination(complete champion).
2) Depending on your gouda level, take arcane disciple(miracle). The miracles out of cantrips is too good to pass up IMO. This ranks above spontaneous divination. Drop signature spell to do this. There's nothing wrong with preparing half of your spells as the most versatile spell ever.

#20

Wyvernhand

Aug 31, 2008 14:16:50

And only 8th level spells. Get that crap out of this thread. Sorry carnivore, but a build should be optimal before it should be suggested on CO.

@Elfen: A couple things I forgot to add:
1) Take another flaw if you can to get spontaneous divination(complete champion).
2) Depending on your gouda level, take arcane disciple(miracle). The miracles out of cantrips is too good to pass up IMO. This ranks above spontaneous divination. Drop signature spell to do this. There's nothing wrong with preparing half of your spells as the most versatile spell ever.

In all fairness to Carnivore, that build is really good provided the DM subscribes to the Text Trumps Table priciple. Then RS is 10/10 caster, rather than 6/10. This isn't the thread to debate that topic though.

#21

archerpwr

Aug 31, 2008 16:42:58

In all fairness to Carnivore, that build is really good provided the DM subscribes to the Text Trumps Table priciple. Then RS is 10/10 caster, rather than 6/10. This isn't the thread to debate that topic though.

Fair 'nuff. Still better with a real caster though.

#22

thalspar

Dec 13, 2008 7:58:55

if you need that extra +1 to Cl you might think of joining the ranks of Fingers of the laughing rogue deticated to Olimammara since when you get to rank 4 you get +1 to Cl when casting illusion spells or spells of the Trickery domain. and then for you cleric build CG should do the trick:D

#23

ninjarabbit

Dec 13, 2008 20:39:12

You could also take the Complete Champion variant wizard that trades your 5th level wizard feat for the ability to spontaneously cast divination spells that you know, being able to cast divination, conjuration, and evocation spells spontaneously is nice.

#24

thegodhead

Dec 14, 2008 2:14:57

Raise thread. Every good wizard bans that school.

#25

Endarire

Dec 20, 2008 3:17:11

Earth Spell should work if you have stone in your shoes since that's what Earth Spell requires.

#26

jaronk

Dec 20, 2008 4:12:59

it says "as long as you are standing on stone or unworked earth". If you are flying, you are not standing on anything. If you are standing in your boots with rocks in them on a wood floor, I think it's pretty clear that this doesn't fit the conditions of the feat.

To put it another way, if I walked up to someone on the street and asked them what they were standing on and they said "the insoles of my shoes", that would seem a tad askew.

Heck with that. Greater Floating Disk is a fourth level spell, and even a 10th level Shadowcraft Mage will be able to cast it, with Earth Spell, at a duration that lasts all day. Put a slab of rock on it and be done with this debate.

Anyway, if you want divine casting and Shadowcraft Mage, and DMM isn't available... Archivist FTW.

JaronK