Human archer
Changeling rogue-based build(ability to turn invisible a plus)
Changeling cleric-based build(not healer-focused; focused on some other useful aspect of the Cleric class instead)
GM's current rules:
Official 3.5 stuff only; nothing 3rd party
+1 LA mandatory, either from the race or a template(so I would need a +1 template for each of them, too).
We're evil.
The stat spread I can use for each character(before race/template adjustments) is 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 12.
I did notice there was a Rogue variant specifically for the Changeling race. Would it be advantageous for my changeling rogue-based to take levels of that instead of the normal rogue? I dunno. I'm so clueless when it comes to actually building/advancing my characters. *sigh*
I've also been going through a few lists of optimized character builds. It's amazing how many of them don't make use of prestige classes. I found an archer, an attack rogue, and a couple other things that sounded interesting(like a bard that would be awesome in a large group). Not so many cleric-based builds to choose from, though. I dunno if that's weird or if I should have expected it.
Human Ranger 20. I don't know much about optimizing archery.
Changeling Cloistered Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage/Recaster.
For evil templates, there's Incarnate Construct, God-blooded (Vecna), Lolth-touched, Mulhorandi Divine Minion (of Sebek, Taint abuse),
In general, you should focus on one thing at a time, then ask specific questions instead of entire builds. e.g. Rogue-base? How long has 3.5e existed? You could probably spend the rest of the year going through Rogue optimization archives.
Clerics aren't always about healing. Don't you know they're gish bad****?
Reference(s):
Tier system for templates - brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
For my archer, I'm thinking of the Shower of Arrows build here:
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shower_of_Arrows_%...
I'm not sure how it'll play at lower levels. It looks solid enough, but I've been wrong before. Also, I need a template. Hopefully something that will make my archer totally own.
Then for my rogue, I found this:
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Basic_Combat_Rogue...
It seems pretty straight-forward, but not particularly interesting. Maybe with the right template? I dunno.
This bard seems pretty good, especially since we'll be part of a larger group(~9 chars at most times):
dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Sublime_Singer_%...
I don't think you can argue w/ up to 22d6 extra damage on every attack for every teammate while retaining the ability to cast some pretty good spells w/o stopping your performance. I could be wrong. And again, I'd need a template. Half Fey looks good, but it's a whole +2LA.
Regarding the tier system for templates link:
I've got a big list of 3.5 templates, and a lot of those listed in the tiers aren't on it. I assume some of them are 3.0 or maybe even third party(neither of which I'm allowed to use). Is there a place where only official 3.5 templates are ranked? Or is my list just incomplete? I snagged the 3.5 template list from the crystalkeep website. If that's the case, do you know where I can find a more complete list?
2. The Cleric is now a Bard?
3. re: templates: Another evil template to consider is "Unseelie Fey".
re: validity: Paha. "Is there a place where only official 3.5 templates are ranked?" I really can't respond to the rest of that post. I think I can do with an analogy: it's like you walk into a cake shop and ask "do you have any real cakes"; it's just wrong.
[-0800 08/02/2010 Mon 22:27:49]
Incarnate Construct is in crystalkeep's 3.0 index, as well as Unseelie Fey.
[-0800 08/02/2010 Mon 22:33:07]
Unseelie Fey is from Dragon Compendium (Volume I), apparently published in 2005. Complete Arcane was published in 2004 and that's considered 3.5e. There's a wrong impression being given here.
[-0800 08/02/2010 Mon 22:37:01]
I would continue to validate sources, but there's too much effort involved right now.
Reference(s):
Unseelie Fey - img96.imageshack.us/g/dragoncompendium22...
2. Probably. I just haven't found any Cleric builds that appealed to me yet. I did stumble across that bard build, though, and it sounded neat so I mentioned it as a possibility. I'll probably just go with bard now unless I stumble across a cleric build that looks good.
3. To be honest, he didn't say 3.5 only. He just said official WotC products. I was just assuming 3.0 wasn't allowed, so . . . maybe I could get away w/ that after all. It wouldn't hurt to ask, I guess.
Since Unseelie Fey is a +0 template w/ a +2 to CHA, it looks like it would be good for a bard. Would it be worth it to stack it with the Half Fey template for additional CHA and flight speed, or would I be better off forgoing the +2 LA in return for a couple more levels of progression into the build?
Also, what does it mean to "buy off" a level adjustment? I see that phrase a lot when looking at builds, and I don't know what it means.
And when a power's strength is based on your HD, does that include HD granted by your class levels? Or is it talking about racial HD only?
That being said, I surmise that you aren't particularly interested in breaking the game, so let me recommend considering what you want to do with this team. Just as an example of the kinds of things you might consider: your group thus far seems oriented away from primary casters. Is no-casters what you want? Do you want a utilitarian group, or one that is focused primarily on destroying things? Do you want a group that will be able to go forever, or one that has a massive power potential for just a few fights? And so on. Once you've defined what you're looking for in your group, you consider types of characters that would fit that group, then build those characters.
For instance, a group composition that I used as a DM with a great deal of success was a three-man team that I decided would be very light on spells and able to fight all day. This team would also need to be extremely versatile, as they would be a sort of opposing force/wild card for quite some time in the game. As I considered tactics, I also realized that the PC party was almost entirely dependent on spells, having been shown in the previous game the massive power of casters in this game, so I wanted a team that could operate in anti-magic zones. I decided that I wanted a tank/controller, a damage-dealer, and a support/setup member, and the team needed to be able to handle a wide variety of situations without using magic. From there, I developed individual builds. My tank/controller was a crusader using a lockdown build. My support member was a ranger specializing in archery and using the alternate class feature that says anyone he attacks is considered flanked for the next attack, and my damage dealer was a rogue... I think specializing in shortbow. So the basic tactic was to lock down the PC party, or whoever else, flank them, and deal stupid amounts of SA damage. There were enough skill points floating around to create an extremely flexible team, and low spell-casting meant they could fight anywhere, anytime, for however long was necessary, and against... well, whatever.
In the previous game, I mostly wanted a team that the PCs would absolutely be afraid to face - a team they would have to maneuver around without actually engaging. So I went cleric, druid, psionic, then optimized those builds. In the first engagement at low levels, they fought my PCs to a draw. In the second engagement, they chased off the PCs, and in the third I had to play nice to avoid a TPK. What I'm saying is, three-man teams are a LOT of potential power - but you have to decide how you want to use it. Once you have a concept, you can assemble builds and work from there.
I went with:
Unseelie Fey Changeling, Bard (buffer w/ Draconic Inspiration)
Mineral Warrior Human, Scout/Ranger (skirmish archer)
Half-Nymph Changeling, Rogue (took that template 'cuz +2 to both DEX and INT; the beauty effect and low-light vision are just nice bonuses; it also helps that I can turn off the beauty effect at will when it's advantageous to do so)
These builds look pretty good so far(we're up to ECL 6), and I think they'll work together pretty well, too. Since we're playing an evil campaign at the moment, the bard is nice insurance against people turning on me. When you're on her side, you get +3d6 or more sonic damage added to every attack(it goes up as levels go up, to a maximum of I think 14d6 per attack since I can't take the Exalted feat to make it even more). If you turn against her, though . . . no mega extra damage for you!
I don't think any of these will break things. At least not any more than the super experienced guy always does. And even if the builds were broken, they're being played by me, and I'm not the best tactical mind out there. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping these characters will be half as good for me as they look on paper.
And it looks like I was thinking of pretty much the same 3 roles as you were, albeit with bardic magic in the support role. My skirmish archer has the most HP and some decent DR, not to mention enough tumble ranks to not provoke AoO very much, so would be the best tank. My rogue would be the damage dealer, at least starting out. Again, high ranks in tumble, not to mention weapons that allow me to sneak attack 10/day each even if I can't get into flanking position. And then the bard is the support, and over time the inspire courage will turn both of the other two into mega damage dealers even w/o sneak attack and skirmish(not to mention adding to all of the other 6 members of our party).
what feat are you using to get the +3d6 sonic damage for the bard?.
Dragonfire Inspiration, from Dragon Magic. It lets you turn your inspire courage attack bonus into 1d6 elemental damage bonus on a 1-to-1d6 basis. You have to be dragonblooded subtype(or maybe draconic some other way; I don't have the full text on me right now), so for that I used the Dragontouched feat.
Then you basically focus on getting your inspire courage up as much as possible. Inspirational boost is a level 1 spell that gives +1 to the attack bonus(which you then trade). Items like Vest of Legends(+5 bard levels for purposes of bardic music, and since inspire courage boosts are 6 levels apart that means that for 5 levels out of 6 you'll be gaining an extra +1). Or Badge of Valor, which allows you to expend one of its 3 charges to get a +1 to inspire courage instead of its normal effect.
So right now, as a 6th-level bard, I have the regular +1, +1 from a vest, +1 from inspirational boost, an occasional +1 from badge of valor, +1 from the Song of the Heart feat that I took at level 6, so . . . +3d6 normally, potentially +5d6 w/ spells/items activated, and a couple more boosts will get me to +7d6 . . . then when I get access to Creaking Cacophany spell I can double that to +14d6. It's not the 22d6 the build normally nets, 'cuz that requires Exalted and that would be impossible in an evil campaign, but it's still nice considering it applies to every single attack from every single ally who can hear you.
The build I'm using(with some modification since I'm a Changeling, not a human, and am not allowed to use UA flaws -- I remember one of the other guys in the group already asked about that and was told no) is here:
dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Sublime_Singer_%...