I don't have the mind bogging power of a CoDzilla and everywhere I turn, people who are far more superior at this game than I ever will be say that it just is not a good idea for a Wizard to be a blaster. But.. it's so much fun. *grumbles* Doesn't anyone remember the hoot ya used to get from casting Magic Missile and Fireball back in 2nd Edition? I suppose it's just been changed up too much to be viable.. but it doesn't mean I still can't be sad about it.
Is there anyway that I can have that kind of fun and not totally gimp out my character? I am not saying I plan to specialize in Evocation or anything insane. Just.. well, is there anything that a Wizard can contribute other than a buff here and a debuff there, thus making everyone else look like they did all the work while I get no glory?
What about the Incantatrix..? Is that even a worthwhile PrC at this stage in the game..?
Pretty much doing effective blasting requires the use of loads of metamagic feats on spells that are hard or impossible to resist. Anything to lower the cost of metamagic (or increase it's effectiveness) is what you want.
dude... if you're going blaster, def take sorcerer.
Only because of wings of flurry
Only because of wings of flurry
And Greater/Arcane Fusion, spontaneous metamagic, more spells/day, less spells in total needed...
And Greater/Arcane Fusion, spontaneous metamagic, more spells/day, less spells in total needed...
Arcane Fusion: Not sure if you can metamagic that. If you can't, kinda worthless.
Spontaneous: Depends on the goal. Generally not a pro or con all said.
Spells/day: Focused Conjurer spamming orb of X?
Arcane Fusion: Not sure if you can metamagic that. If you can't, kinda worthless.
Spontaneous: Depends on the goal. Generally not a pro or con all said.
Spells/day: Focused Conjurer spamming orb of X?
Focused Specialists I'll give you that one. Not my cup of tea, but it does get the spells/day up.
I'm relitavely certain you can apply metamagic to the spells in Arcane Fusion, as long as it doesn't push them over the cast time limit, but I'm AFB so I might be wrong. And I wasn't meaning spont casting, spont metamagic is in every way superior to prepared metamagic, as long as you take a feat to make it so you don't increase your casting time (Complete Mage IIRC). It makes things like Transdimensional Spell worth the feat.
But hey, just my 2cp.
Stuff
Just looked at AF a min ago. It's not clear either way due to the wording. Still a great spell.
IMO, spont. metamagic is a pretty even trade for the cost.
For example, when you cast Arcane fusion, you can coose to cast a Magic Missile (lvl 1) + Maximized Magic Missile (lvl 4) as your spells. But you need to make sure you are able to cast metamagicked spells as standard actions. Either with Rapid Metamagic or an other means.
Grab 2 lvls of feind-blooded from Heroes of Horror and get Favor of the Martyr to make yourself immune to daze and thus allowing you to select Celerity as one of the level 4 spell during Arcane Fusion for free standard actions.
If you are comfortable playing a ray blaster, Spellwarp Sniper is impressive especially with Reflex save for dazing effect like Wings of Flurry or Frost Breath, as the reflex save is removed when warping the spell into a ray. Only deficit is that you will need to get the sneak atk from somewhere and normally that maks you lose a caster level.
Area blast spell + incantatrix 10 + arcane thesis + sculpt spell + enlarge spell + silent + still + empower + maximize (costs 1) + twin spell (optional) + energy admixture (optional) + heighten for 2 (debatable) + any other 0 / 1 / 2 cost metamagic feats
(remember arcane thesis again reduces each metamagic feat applied by 1 (min 0) so 1 and 2 cost feats are free for that spell)
So with an arcane thesis spell you can load up on 1 level adjustments and when you hit incantatrix 10 you can also load up on 2 level adjustments.
Free empower, sculpt and enlarge is pretty hot, and you can get maximize for fee with some other feats, and twin and admixture are cheap.
The ultimate Blaster. Shadowcraft Mage. You get to be an Illusionist.
So much truth in this statement. You can even ban evocation and be better than an evoker in blasting.
If you are comfortable playing a ray blaster, Spellwarp Sniper is impressive especially with Reflex save for dazing effect like Wings of Flurry or Frost Breath, as the reflex save is removed when warping the spell into a ray. Only deficit is that you will need to get the sneak atk from somewhere and normally that maks you lose a caster level.
Would Assasin's Stance work?
Would Assasin's Stance work?
Ask your DM, it's his ruling that matters.
You can use a Unseen Seer dip to get SA, but the skills for that are probably gonna make you lose a CL anyway.
What you want is free/reduced cost metamagic effects, and anything that will add bonus damage, e.g:
- Arcane Thesis (PHB2)
- Residual Magic (Complete Mage)
- Draconic Prophecy + Prophecy's Shaper (Magic of Eberron)
- Practical Metamagic (Races of the Dragon)
- Easy Metamagic (Dragon Compendium)
- Heroic Metamagic + Unfettered Heroism (Races of Eberron)
- Mark of the Enlightened Soul / Touch of the Blackened Heart (Dragon Magic)
etc
Then I personally like to stack on debuff effects onto your spells, e.g:
- Born of the Three Thunders (Complete Arcane)
- Blistering Spell (PHB2)
- Wings of Flurry (Races of the Dragon)
A Sorcerer works well imo. A good combo at high levels is to use Arcane Spellsurge with Residual Magic:
- Round 1: Standard Action cast metamagicked spell.
- Round 2: Swift action cast same spell cast last round (add metamagic via Residual Magic), Standard Action cast another metamagicked spell.
- Repeat
Also, be sure to have some battlefield control, movement, buff, debuff, etc spells as well. Don't go pure blaster, casters should be versatile.
Would Assasin's Stance work?
It has been used before.
Personally I think the Spellwarp Sniper might not be as good. The problem is that you can't add SA dice to every ray, just to those that do HP damage. So you'll have to find a way to add HP damage to Debuffing rays. Also, turning Area effects into rays seems like a weak mechanism.
IF you take SwS then definitely add enough levels of Unseen Seer to add "Eyes of the Hunter" to your spell list.
But generally, I think a main blaster with lots of Metamagic and ways to reduce the cost will be stronger overall on the damage output. So, what Dave said.
Depending on how cheesy you want to get it's possible to crank out a couple of thousand points of damage in an area of effect at level 20.
It just takes a little more work than an area controller, debuffer or SoD'er.
~Bowen
Second: You can blast all day long. Just like a warlock or DFA (pretty good blasting choices, too, btw.).
Race: Silverbrow human (or any other draconic race)
Abilities: Max out Wis, get a high Con (not that necessary), some Dex for your touch attacks.
Feats: Get Adaptive Style AFAP for fast maneuver recovery, Blade Meditation (desert wind), Desert Fire, Desert Wind Dodge, Scorching Sirocco. Go for Draconic Aura (fire) - for a tough boost to your maneuvers DCs.
Equipment: Whatever you want, ask your DM to allow a variant veil of allure - something like veil of insight - which ups your Wis based DCs by 2. Should work fine.
Maneuvers: Take as many blasting maneuvers as you like, powered up by some decent debuffs and counters for your own survival.
Stances: Assassin's stance powers up your touch attacks...
If you don't like the idea: Duskblades make pretty good blasters, too.
EJ
the plasma-ultra-mega-multi-cannon-man translated to D&D
Hi everyone. So I've been looking around because I've been contemplating playing a Wizard class for a long time.. but as I peruse the boards, I am disillusioned with it.
But.. it's so much fun. *grumbles* Doesn't anyone remember the hoot ya used to get from casting Magic Missile and Fireball back in 2nd Edition? I suppose it's just been changed up too much to be viable.. but it doesn't mean I still can't be sad about it.
Is there anyway that I can have that kind of fun and not totally gimp out my character? I am not saying I plan to specialize in Evocation or anything insane. Just.. well, is there anything that a Wizard can contribute other than a buff here and a debuff there, thus making everyone else look like they did all the work while I get no glory?
What about the Incantatrix..? Is that even a worthwhile PrC at this stage in the game..?
What level are you starting at? That makes a huge difference.
-AS-
However, it's not that blasting is that bad, it's that the alternative is so good.
My suggestion would be is to keep your blaster concept, but expand it into multi threat spells (as in spells that do damage and have secondary debuffing or battlefield control effects).
Take a look at spells like:
Tunnel Swallow (SpC)
Howling Chain (SpC)
Ice Storm (PHB)
Seeking Ray (PHB II)
Frost Breath (SpC)
Ray of Ice (SpC)
Orb of Fire (SpC)
Persistant Blade (SpC)
Melf's unicorn arrow (PHB II)
Caustic Smoke (CM)
Or - how about throwing an explosive spell metamagic onto a straight blast to make it dual threat? This gives you a similar feeling to 2e becuase now the enemies once again DO fall down (though they get back up).
For this concept you need to keep evocation and conjuration - go with specialist or focused specialist for either school. Get rid of Necromancy, Enchantment and probably illusion.
You should find this concept relatively simple - it doesn't require any special combos/races/PrC's - yet should be effective for you - keeping your blasting concept and adding on some Battlefield control/debuffing.
The ultimate Blaster. Shadowcraft Mage. You get to be an Illusionist.
+1
I've seen a level 15 ScM in action...level 15 characters should not be throwing around level 9 spells....but they do!
I understand entirely that the ability to make your character go "x in the eyes" from a single spell (i.e. Finger of Death) is far more useful than whittling his health away with direct damage spells (i.e. Fireball), but it certainly lacks that kind of flair for me. Again, I'm not disagreeing with anything you all have said, I'm just explaining my sentiments on the matter.
But I'm definitely going to be playing a Wizard around level 10! Human. I'm not sure if anything from UA is allowed, so my hopes of playing a Domain Wizard is up in the air.
So please, help me down this path. :o Help me like if I had never heard of D&D and thought it meant "Doors & Diapers" or something. ;) I see mention of the Metamagic Feats, and I entirely understand the awesomeness of Incantatrix and Arcane Thesis.. so I'm guessing I should dip into it as soon as humanly possible, yes? :o Level 5 then?
+1
I've seen a level 15 ScM in action...level 15 characters should not be throwing around level 9 spells....but they do!
Unfortunately, I am playing a Human.
And I don't believe our DM is flexible enough to allow the variant.Most books ARE allowed, as long as we run things by him, of course.
Like Complete Arcane is definitely there.Or, warlock with Hellfire warlock.
Hmm.. it's never been brought up. :O I am going to say unlikely, unless there is an online database of Dragon articles that my DM can look up, and even then he will most likely say it's not. :/
Most books ARE allowed, as long as we run things by him, of course.
I asked because of one single spell, Boccob's Rolling Cloud.
It can also be found on crystalkeep.com.
The reason I mention this is because it can hit pretty hard if you beef up your CL, since it doesn't have a damage cap.
~Bowen
But I'm definitely going to be playing a Wizard around level 10! Human. I'm not sure if anything from UA is allowed, so my hopes of playing a Domain Wizard is up in the air.
So please, help me down this path. :o Help me like if I had never heard of D&D and thought it meant "Doors & Diapers" or something. ;) I see mention of the Metamagic Feats, and I entirely understand the awesomeness of Incantatrix and Arcane Thesis.. so I'm guessing I should dip into it as soon as humanly possible, yes? :o Level 5 then?
Ooh, level 10 you say? At this level, warmage is the best direct damage dealer of the full casting classes bar none(uh oh, strong statement!!). For a very capable build doing exactly what you want I would recommend something along the lines of Warmage7/Mage of the Arcane Order3. The hardest part of this build is feats. This will be a very unpopular opinion because people are sort of against the blaster role in general, even though it can be quite effective.
So here are some build details:
Warmage7/MotAO3
1 Arcane Preparation(CA)
1 Empower Spell
3 Sudden Empower(CA)
6 Cooperative Spell(CA)
7 Sudden Maximize(CA)
9 Maximize Spell
9 Residual Metamagic(i think it has 12 ranks prereq: Complete Mage)
Try and acquire a Circlet of Rapid Casting and Rods of Lesser Maximize and Lesser Empower and go to town on people. MotAO gives you 5 spell levels of flexibility, but if you want to be a primary blaster then you aren't too concerned about flexibility. Also, use the PHB2 Eclectic Learning ACF and get Fly as a 4th level spell.
A wizard would have some serious deficiencies compared to the warmage in a number of areas. First off(and something that gets ignored a lot) you have to pay for your spells and spellbook. Secondly, why have the capability to be versatile when you don't want to be? The MotAO levels give you enough on the fly flexibility to be fine. Thirdly, you are playing at the level range where damage is king. SoDs are nice and all, but at this level save DCs won't be as reliable as straight up damage. Use Arcane Prep to prepare a quickened lesser orb of something for use on the first round, then activate Residual Magic the next round, which autoquickens the same spell for free. To be honest, at this level you should be able to easily take down either single opponents or mobs equally well.
If you can take Flaws from UA, do so. They will give you a few other goodies. I know you said wizard, but all wizard really has to offer is a few spells the warmage can't get. With the amount of direct damage and battlefield control the warmage has, you won't miss Wings of Flurry or any of those other spells people are always talking about.
-AS-
Blasteficer :D
the plasma-ultra-mega-multi-cannon-man translated to D&D
teach to all those stupid swords 'n magic users the power of a plasma-cannon + a bullet-proof amror :D choose the future choose the Artificer :D
Okay I choose a total of 4 spells that can handle all your blasting needs.
You still have
1 5th level spell
1 4th level spell
2 3rd level spells
and 3 1st level spells for you to choose from, allowing you a little versatility to your blasting.
Go read the Warmage sucks Goats for more examples.
Haha, thank you but I don't believe the Artificer will be available. We're not very technologically advanced. ^^;; But I do like the sounds of the Warmage. However, I've seen a lot of threads saying Warmages suck, so I'm worried..
Warmages aren't THAT bad, but they are not the best, hands down or otherwise. Their main issue is MAD. They need every stat but Str and Wis, which is a lot tougher to keep up to competative levels. Warmage Edge is king at level 1, but by level 5-6, its a pretty minor part of your damage source. The worst thing about it is that it only applies to a single target, regardless of how many Gobo's you catch in your fireball. You can sacrifice a little bit of versitility for a lot more power if you go sorc.
As long as you aren't trying to set world records for damage, a Warmage can serve your purpose just fine. Otherwise, even a sorc would be a step up, and either a Shadowcraft Mage or an Incantarararararararar with Arcane Thesis in an uncapped damage spell using lots of metamagic on a lowish level spell is gonna be what you want to get 9999 to flash on your screen all the time.
I feel like I've misled everyone. It's not that I don't plan to debuff or buff or use sod spells (I LOVE Finger of Death) if the situation calls for it, it's just I don't want to feel like an idiot if I memorize some blasting spells when I'm fighting an enemy that is immune to my one shot kills.
I still want to be flashy and feel like I'm contributing to the fight and have big numbers for me too, instead of just hanging behind the fighter and saying "Oh hey, here's a buff, now you get the big numbers" every single battle.Sure, it may be the utterly optimized thing to do, but I don't find it fun at all, especially from a descriptive point of view. Seeing.. "Your fireball explodes within the group of enemies, incinerating their numbers as their smoking husks fall to the charred earth.." is far more cooler than "Your sparkling rainbow makes them go "oooh" for a few seconds.. while Argh the Barbarian cleaves his way through them."
Does that make any sense?
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm rambling. :/type in wings of flurry in your find toolbar in this thread
http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-842067.html
While most spells like Fireball have a cap on dice (fireball is 10d6, chain lightning at 15d6) Wings of Flurry has no damage cap, which means if you can get your CL up to say.....25 through items and abilities, you do the full 25d6 damage, whereas a fireball cast at CL 25 does the same damage as one at CL 10.
Also, its usually good for higher level arcanists to carry some damage spells. You never know when your party may be separated or disabled, and you REALLY need some damage. The best source for this tends to be multipurpose damage, things that do force, sonic, or acid damage, since those types are seldom resisted (much less than fire, cold, and electricity). Constant renewable or constant damage is also nice, so spells like Burning Blood and Manyjaws are typically used, although Freezing Fog is decent too. Hell, even a metamagiced up Scorching Ray can be used as a fierce weapon by a powerful arcanist.
He just isn't "God" that is all.
----
Notice that the damage is also force damage (besides the save or lose factor), uncapped damage, and you get to designate who are the targets so if your party fighter is also in the burst he is unaffected.
So, it MAY do that, and if it MAY do all that, then it does sound like an insane spell.
Now I have a dumb newbie question. I know that metamagic for a Sorcerer involves making the spell take longer to cast as opposed to a wizard, who requires higher level slots. How exactly do powerful Sorcerers go about fixing that little dilemma?Why do warmage when you can do Sorcerer with Wings of Flurry and Boccobs Rolling Cloud. If you still need more blasting do scorching ray and magic missile.
Okay I choose a total of 4 spells that can handle all your blasting needs.
You still have
1 5th level spell
1 4th level spell
2 3rd level spells
and 3 1st level spells for you to choose from, allowing you a little versatility to your blasting.
Go read the Warmage sucks Goats for more examples.
Sorceror sucks is the main reason. You have too limited of a repertoire. I am also saying that at level 10, a warmage is superior to any other full caster at damage. You get 15 spells as a 10th level sorc. I don't care how "great" they are, warmages have many more options(and not all are blasting).
You should go read the Warmages & Goats thread. It addresses this very issue and aside from the people touting maybe 5 specific spells, the sorceror has no real advantage(Focused Specialist Evoker is better than a sorc). I recommend against becoming a one-trick pony by using Arcane Thesis.
Remember, the warmage list is NOT just blasting spells. They have numerous good battlefield control spells, they have save or dies and their spell list can be expanded if you want more variety(which is unnecessary).
Also, the warmage is not anymore MAD than any other class, especially at this level. You will be fine with a 12 or 14 in int, and the same in dex and con. And Edge applies to everyone damaged(but Edge should not be a focus at all, it is just a red herring to distract you).
Warmage's get a bad rap here for very little reason. Basically what you will find are that people become total fanboys for specific spells and think that those are the end all be all of spellcasting and if you can't cast that spell you are worthless. At your level there is no need for Wings of Flurry. The fact that it has uncapped damage is irrelevant, you can already do the same dice of damage with numerous spells.
Also, invest in Eternal Wands, any arcane caster can use them regardless of whether the spell is on their spell list or not.
Also, at your level, enemy hp are not going to be super high. You will be able to one round kill many opponents(which is the same as save or die) through sheer hp damage. At your level you should be able to do over 100 points of damage the first 2 rounds, which are all that really matter. I am currently playing a warmage and there has not been an encounter that made the warmage's "weaknesses" feel like a liability. There is always someone to kill and that is what warmages do.
-AS-
The main drawback to Wings of Flurry is that the area is small, and its a point blank AoE. That means you have to get close to that which you smite, and if they make the save, tend to be angry and full attacky with you.
:D
So, it MAY do that, and if it MAY do all that, then it does sound like an insane spell.
ACF from PHB2(i think) gives up familiar for the ability to spontaneously apply metamagic with no increase in casting time.
Think about Wings of Flurry though and what it would actually do for you at your current level. Its really nice when you have a CL of 20+, but at 10th its no big deal.
-AS-
Wings of Flurry and Boccobs Rolling Cloud..
First on Wings of Flurry, unlike other damage spells wings of flurry has two nice things. First the reflex save or suck, a daze action means they aren't going to attack you next round. At cr 10 the average reflex saving throw is a 9, that means their is an over 50% chance (depending on stats and what feats you take) that the monster will lose the saving throw. That may not be a game ender but that makes it far better than fireball which has nothing. Second the damage is force damage.
---
But you are right at that level Wings of Flurry doesn't really shine, that is why I recommend Boccobs Rolling Cloud. At level 10 you have a cone with range of 50 feet. (If they are father away than 50 feet than you should be doing Battlefield Control to prevent them from getting close, perhaps a magic missile combine with bracers of entangling blast for a no save entangle).
Also uncapped damage (once again you are right not that big deal at level 10 though)
More importantly though, half the damage is no resistible.
And once again you get the reflex save or be dazed.
----
Please find me a situation, where you will want to use damage spells at level 10 which couldn't be handled by the 4 spells I selected and you would want to use a damage spell from the warmage list.
----
And yes while Warmage also have saves or dies (not that good of ones compared to a sorcerer) and some battlefield control, they do not have things such as fly, dimension door, contigency, improved invisibility, wings of cover which I find far more valuable.
Ander I suggested two spells.
Wings of Flurry and Boccobs Rolling Cloud..
First on Wings of Flurry, unlike other damage spells wings of flurry has two nice things. First the reflex save or suck, a daze action means they aren't going to attack you next round. At cr 10 the average reflex saving throw is a 9, that means their is an over 50% chance (depending on stats and what feats you take) that the monster will lose the saving throw. That may not be a game ender but that makes it far better than fireball which has nothing. Second the damage is force damage.
The reflex save applies to fireball as well, meaning that over half the time your opponent will be taking a lot of damage and dying, which is a game ender. You also don't have to be anywhere near them to do this.
But you are right at that level Wings of Flurry doesn't really shine, that is why I recommend Boccobs Rolling Cloud. At level 10 you have a cone with range of 50 feet. (If they are father away than 50 feet than you should be doing Battlefield Control to prevent them from getting close, perhaps a magic missile combine with bracers of entangling blast for a no save entangle).
Also uncapped damage (once again you are right not that big deal at level 10 though)
More importantly though, half the damage is no resistible.
And once again you get the reflex save or be dazed.
That is too close for comfort. Also, if they are farther away, you hit them with a damage spell(Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Orbs, etc). You can BC at your leisure because you have so many options.
Please find me a situation, where you will want to use damage spells at level 10 which couldn't be handled by the 4 spells I selected and you would want to use a damage spell from the warmage list.
Anything with range. Anything with a variety of energy types. What do you do when your opponent is 100' away? Do you really BC him, or just outright kill him with damage? Damage is not elegant.
----
And yes while Warmage also have saves or dies (not that good of ones compared to a sorcerer) and some battlefield control, they do not have things such as fly, dimension door, contigency, improved invisibility, wings of cover which I find far more valuable.
I have already addressed the lack of spells. Eclectic Learning to get Fly as a 4th level spell. MotAO to get additional utility spells. Contingency is evocation, so you could Advanced Learning it, but I wouldn't.
-AS-
Or lets create a new thread and have a co poll/vote. Which would you rather play at level 10, a warmage, or a sorcerer with those 4 spells and some other ones.
Ander Spectacular since you and to a lesser extent me are not being helpful to ArchmageMorgoloth with this train of thought, take the discussion to the Warmage Blows Goats for Change thread. I know you know which one I am referring to since you participated so many times in it.
Or lets create a new thread and have a poll/vote. Which would you rather play at level 10, a warmage, or a sorcerer with those 4 spells and some other ones.
The Warmage/Goats thread already provides all the examples of exactly what we are talking about here. For the OP, I hope that illustrating some of the basic ideas from that thread are helpful. Many people dismiss the warmage out of hand because of its unoptimized spell list and the fact that they think it can only blast. Time and again this has proven to be untrue(blaster only) or simple opinion(spell list).
It can only be advantageous to a person with a question about blasting to hear more than the "Wings of Flurry Chorus" chime in again with how great that spell is(I feel it is overrated). Sorceror is a bad class, thats the bottom line. There is no real reason(optimization wise) to play one at all. Ever. Wizards are too vastly superior to sorcerors. Warmages have a few tricks they can use to be a better sorc than a sorc, beguilers do their job better than a sorc could, etc. The OP deserves to know this stuff.
I do think there is enough out there for him to see that, though
-AS-
Second you scare off OTHER people from responding to this thread by making it a sorcerer/warmage rant.
You aren't helping, you are hurting. Make a new thread, link it to this one, and stop threadjacking.
Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Practiced Binder (ToM)
There is a vestige you can bind that will increase the DC of magic items by 2, and gives you a type of detect magic at will. Plus all the other vestiges you can bind during the build up of the chain are still useful in odd situations and can leave spells open for more blasting.
Residual Magic (complete mage)
This feat will allow you to reapply metamagic feats without raising the spell level of the spell and also allow you to use your caster level and DC when using an item to cast a spell after you cast the spell.
So with all 4 of those feats you can:
Cast Lightning bolt
Use a Wand of Lightning Bolt as if you cast it,
AND the DC from the Wand will be 2 higher than your own DC
Also Spell Rehersal (races of dragon) can help raise your DC and Caster level from repeated castings of the same spell.
A rather mundane list of help but still worth notice IMO.
Residual Magic (complete mage)
This feat will allow you to reapply metamagic feats without raising the spell level of the spell and also allow you to use your caster level and DC when using an item to cast a spell after you cast the spell.
So with all 4 of those feats you can:
Cast Lightning bolt
Use a Wand of Lightning Bolt as if you cast it,
AND the DC from the Wand will be 2 higher than your own DC
Residual Magic is definitely a must for any blaster(and most casters). It is great to use with Quicken and Maximize, but even Empower works really well with it. Free metamagic is where its at.
Also, the MIC has some good items which can help you cast better/faster/stronger.
-AS-
Other than the problems with not being able to use many booster items, what about banning Transmutation? Normally it's something I would never think of, but if you are going blaster you need those spell slots for damage anyways and you can leave buffing to the cleric or other party member.
1. He's the BIG BAD EVIL GUY! The DM has spent at least all of 5 minutes developing this person and his plots to take over the world. The DM is not going to let you kill him in 1 round when you finally get to him.
2. He's the BIG BAD EVIL GUY! He's defeat is supposed to take minutes if not days. No single round kill spell is going to crunch him for that would be anti-climatical.
3. If A Big Bad Kill Spell kills the BIG BAD EVIL GUY then that was not the BIG BAD EVIL GUY but some lame henchman who the BBEG is using to bluff the PC's into thinking they have killed the BBEG so that he may continue to plot without their meddling.
Ander I suggested two spells.
Wings of Flurry and Boccobs Rolling Cloud..
First on Wings of Flurry, unlike other damage spells wings of flurry has two nice things. First the reflex save or suck, a daze action means they aren't going to attack you next round. At cr 10 the average reflex saving throw is a 9, that means their is an over 50% chance (depending on stats and what feats you take) that the monster will lose the saving throw. That may not be a game ender but that makes it far better than fireball which has nothing. Second the damage is force damage.
---
But you are right at that level Wings of Flurry doesn't really shine, that is why I recommend Boccobs Rolling Cloud. At level 10 you have a cone with range of 50 feet. (If they are father away than 50 feet than you should be doing Battlefield Control to prevent them from getting close, perhaps a magic missile combine with bracers of entangling blast for a no save entangle).
Also uncapped damage (once again you are right not that big deal at level 10 though)
More importantly though, half the damage is no resistible.
And once again you get the reflex save or be dazed.
----
Please find me a situation, where you will want to use damage spells at level 10 which couldn't be handled by the 4 spells I selected and you would want to use a damage spell from the warmage list.
----
And yes while Warmage also have saves or dies (not that good of ones compared to a sorcerer) and some battlefield control, they do not have things such as fly, dimension door, contigency, improved invisibility, wings of cover which I find far more valuable.
And don't forget Sculp Spell and to boost the heck out of your CL. There's a thread on boosting caster level floating around here somewhere, just look it up in the Surrealdex.
~Bowen
And don't forget Sculp Spell and to boost the heck out of your CL. There's a thread on boosting caster level floating around here somewhere, just look it up in the Surrealdex.
~Bowen
One of the easiest and most overlooked ways to increase caster levels for a wizard is to take a couple levels in Loremaster (provided you qualify) and sink all of your skill points into UMD. Then you can emulate the ability to cast level 0 divine spells (DC20) to trick it into thinking you are a cleric or other divine caster. Then you can activate it to gain +4 CL for the next 10 minutes once per day. For extra goodness, get 2. One to use for your daily buffs in the morning, and one to use when going into very dangerous areas (look, a dragon flying overhead...or behind this door is the illithid coven) That way your buffs last longer, are harder to dispel, and often more powerful, and you still have a nice ace in the hole you can whip out to stack on the extra dice. +4 CL is about 14 damage per spell, provided you haven't hit the cap already.
Something like Wizard 6/Ruathar 3/Knight of the Weave 1/ Ultimate Magus 10 combined with Theurgic Specialist should get really fun with spells known as a level 19 wizard and a caster level around 49~50 thanks to the way KotW's CL is calculated
~Bowen
Sorceror sucks is the main reason. You have too limited of a repertoire. I am also saying that at level 10, a warmage is superior to any other full caster at damage. You get 15 spells as a 10th level sorc. I don't care how "great" they are, warmages have many more options(and not all are blasting).
********. Any competently built sorceror has far more options than a suckmage. Your seem to have a funky definition of options, "I can shoot them with fire or Ice" is not options. Options = "I can shoot them, mind-rip them, avoid them, or SoD them."
Remember, the warmage list is NOT just blasting spells. They have numerous good battlefield control spells, they have save or dies and their spell list can be expanded if you want more variety(which is unnecessary).
They lack utility spells, transportation spells, and most importantly, scrying. Scrying and Movement are far more important than damage dealing in the big picture, especially since you probably have a fighter-type to output DD.
Ask any Strategist. Information/Intelligence>Logistics and Mobility> Firepower.
A Warmage might in some cases have more options than a Sorceror in a battle (and that's a very iffy proposition) But D&D is a lot more than just battles.
One of the easiest and most overlooked ways to increase caster levels for a wizard is to take a couple levels in Loremaster (provided you qualify) and sink all of your skill points into UMD. Then you can emulate the ability to cast level 0 divine spells (DC20) to trick it into thinking you are a cleric or other divine caster. Then you can activate it to gain +4 CL for the next 10 minutes once per day. For extra goodness, get 2. One to use for your daily buffs in the morning, and one to use when going into very dangerous areas (look, a dragon flying overhead...or behind this door is the illithid coven) That way your buffs last longer, are harder to dispel, and often more powerful, and you still have a nice ace in the hole you can whip out to stack on the extra dice. +4 CL is about 14 damage per spell, provided you haven't hit the cap already.
I believe the "it" you are referring to here is the Bead of Karma, just in case there are those who missed that.
Hehe, I just use Southern Magician (Races of Faerun) instead. Which I highly recommend if you want to boost caster levels. That and 1 level in Sacred Exorcist. Take Divine Spell Power and you are set. Totally synergizes with Sorcerer since a high stat in CHA give you the turning attempts you need. It also opens up Divine Metamagic cheese but let's not go there.
Also, just want to point out that Rapid Metamagic is a feat in Complete Mage that allows a sorcerer to cast metamagicked spells at the normal casting time all day, everyday.
********. Any competently built sorceror has far more options than a suckmage. Your seem to have a funky definition of options, "I can shoot them with fire or Ice" is not options. Options = "I can shoot them, mind-rip them, avoid them, or SoD them."
They lack utility spells, transportation spells, and most importantly, scrying. Scrying and Movement are far more important than damage dealing in the big picture, especially since you probably have a fighter-type to output DD.
Ask any Strategist. Information/Intelligence>Logistics and Mobility> Firepower.
A Warmage might in some cases have more options than a Sorceror in a battle (and that's a very iffy proposition) But D&D is a lot more than just battles.
Uh-oh, I can sense a phoenix00 meltdown coming. You better be careful threadjacking and a bunch of other stuff or he will tell you to go away.
All I will say is, I am glad to have this discussion with you, but this is not the place. Being that the OP asked for a blaster, there is no better blaster at the level indicated than warmage.
-AS-
A school that can get over looked for a blaster is necromancy. If you add Black Lore of Moil it does damage too and may be lord of utter cold (both are metamagic feats) you can get a lot of bang with any cold spell. Elemental Savant (water) can really capitalize on this, but have the one glaring weakness sindrome.
Argent Savant would be a good dip if you want to cast a lot of force spells.
Finally the Reserve feat Fiery burst gives you a great backup that keeps hitting a 5' burst area, which is a 10'x10' area.
All I will say is, I am glad to have this discussion with you, but this is not the place. Being that the OP asked for a blaster, there is no better blaster at the level indicated than warmage.
-AS-
There is an entire thread that exists merely to prove you wrong.
That's why I've never been a huge fan of Orb of X type spells, except as a backup against SR or magic immune opponents. If you're going to spend a spell slot doing Xd6 damage, you really want it to be AOE damage.
I am actually a big fan of parties that combine blasters with melee beasts with great cleave. An empowered fireball at level 9 can reduce the hit points of a swarm of enemies below the critical threshold for the melee guy, so that he can great cleave through them all in one round.
...but I'm probably alone here on this one on area damage -- people on the CO boards seem more interested in being able to deal 1,000 to a single target.
But anyhow, blasters crank their damage up by:
1) Rod of metamagic
2) Free or reduced metamagic feats or special abilities
3) Raising save DCs / debuffing enemies
4) Bypassing elemental resistances
A 10th level sorcerer casting an empowered fireball does 52.5 damage
A 10th level sorcerer with just a rod of maximize spell or sudden maximize does 77.5 damage with an empowered fireball
A 10th level sorcerer with lowered metamagic costs casting an empowered maximized nonlethal fireball using a rod of energy admixture deals 155 nonelemental AOE damage.
In the room with the 10 bodaks, a normal sorcerer would deal 52.5 damage to them, save for half... they have 58 hp, and fire resistance 10 so they all live. Next round, you get to make 10 DC15 save or dies. A good blaster instead deals 155 damage to them, and substitutes out the elemental damage for something they're not resistance to, killing them all instantly.
Yes the sorcerer's lone 5th level spell and 2 4th level spells are probably going to be better than the warmage's best 4th and 5th level spells but the sorcerer only has Option A, B, and C at that point while the warmage has Options A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.
There is an entire thread that exists merely to prove you wrong.
That thread is a very interesting read if you can manage to wade through the hundreds of one line sarcastic posts and get to the meat of the issue. This case is much different, though. At level 20, the warmage has lost its punch, at level 10 it is decidedly different. This is the height of when direct damage is viable. ShakaUVM's damage analysis demonstrates this pretty well. The big difference as expressed by ninjarabbit here and many others(myself included) on the goats thread is that the sorceror's limited spell knowledge greatly inhibits their ability to direct damage in a variety of ways. Sorceror's are also being typical progressed towards a spell selection like logicninja's on the other thread and are less likely to be developing the focus on inflicting damage that a warmage is. Whereas a sorceror might use a party buff such as Haste on the first round(a classically good strategy), the warmage is simply more likely to target the biggest bad guy and inflict large amounts of damage to them, either him killing outright or, at the very least, changing the tone of the encounter. A sorceror could do the exact same thing as the warmage, but wouldn't have the variety of range/energy/area/battlefield control that a warmage would(at 10, the warmage has vastly superior battlefield control capabilities with Pyrotechnics, Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, Wall of Fire, Evard's and Cloudkill). A sorceror would have to work very hard to get the flexibility at this level. Of course, the sorceror has much greater out of combat use, but that is neither here nor there in the current comparison(and if it is, I gladly concede this point).
My whole point is and always has been that people dismiss the warmage too quickly because of its limited spell list. While it is definitely limited, it has more than enough options for a warmage to contribute during virtually any encounter. Their ability to add spells to their spell list and cast with spontaneous flexibility allows them to take advantage of many mechanics a sorceror cannot access as readily(gaining entire domains as spells known instead of having to learn the spell after gaining access to the domain).
Just some thoughts, take them as you will.
-AS-
There is an entire thread that exists merely to prove you wrong.
Funny, that thread actually proved to me that warmages were better than sorceror's and sometimes wizards throught the testing that was done.
Guess we have a different set of view.
I may have something that will suit everyone, the OP, and their mother.
Evoker 4/Warmage 1/Ultimate Magus
Take the option for +1 CL with fire spells from UA, you now have a CL of 15 with fire spells on your wizard side, and a bit less on warmage spells.
I am currently playing this build and I will Tell you what I do in battle, it's pretty simple:
I cast Wall of Force
I cast Defenastrating Sphere
I cast substituted ball lightning.
I use two actions a round to hurt people and throw people around.
If i need single damage spells, i use my warmage side to cast an empowered scorching ray with the massive int bonus from my main wizard casting side. The fireballs are also VERY tasty.
This is a good casting build, leaving you with wide options, focused on doing damage, and able of everything a wizard can do.
Metamagics I recommend for blasting:
Heightened spell (for a spontanentious caster this can make any reserve feats you take always go off at your highest spell level.)
Energy substitution (two or three of these and you don't need 5 orb spells)
Scuplt Spell (cone to line to burst to multiple smaller burst covers all AOE needs)
Widen spell (combine with sculpt spell you can turn that burning hands spell into 4 save throws for 5d4 damage each in a 20'x20' as a third level spell at caster level 5)
Other Feats of use
Residual Magic (recasting with metamagics for free is good, and it can also raise the caster level and DC of item cast spells, this turns a wand into a staff for casting a spell basically)
Metamagic Vigor (iffy on this one but it can raise DC or caster level depending on how you cast)
Fiery Burst (a 5' burst that does your highest spell level in d6 damage unlimited times a day with the same DC as that highest level spell is always useful and saves spells for bigger problems later, use Heightened spell as a spontaenious caster so you don't have to take unneeded spells)
At fifth level I can have my third level spell slot for Dispel magic or Displacement and still get more damage out of my first level spell than I would from the fireball spell.
An a familiar? Really, I prefer to go alternate class features out of AU and grab myself an Animal Companion instead, if I keep it.
Now The warmage has a few things going for it yes. A completely known spell list can be nice if you grab some Arcane Disciple feats or Rainbow servant as noted by others, the casting in armor isn't bad, a d6 HD doesn't hurt, and the sudden feats are free and still could as metamagic for PrC prereg purposes (note they are in the metamagic area and are metamagics) However those class features are once a day so they aren't that great. I believe Warmage's edge is a little overlooked in AOE situations, after all that extra damage from extra edge affects all foes in the area.
My major complaint against the Warmage is early on all those attack spells aren't needed, some really needed spells aren't on it's list, and it lacks too much versitility in the long and short run. Many spells that are needed for a good run aren't on the list and if you are the only caster this can really hurt.
The one part that throws it all over the top for me for Sorcerer is the Sorcerer heritage feats and the alternate class features. Got to be Sorcerer for these, they open up more spells known, give alternate features to be activated by spells including some AOE effects, cover armored casting, larger hit dice, and better attack progression.
Before complete mage, PHB2, and UA I would have agreed that warmage makes a great blaster and could with a little tweaking be a very good member of an optimized party. However with all the extra resources the sorcerer has now a warmage starts to lose out more than it would in the past.
My whole point is and always has been that people dismiss the warmage too quickly because of its limited spell list. While it is definitely limited, it has more than enough options for a warmage to contribute during virtually any encounter. Their ability to add spells to their spell list and cast with spontaneous flexibility allows them to take advantage of many mechanics a sorceror cannot access as readily(gaining entire domains as spells known instead of having to learn the spell after gaining access to the domain).
The two problems, which even you concede, is that a Sorcerer is competitive at 10th level (them being good at different things) versus Sorcerer blowing the class out of the water at 20th. It may very well be that there are times when they're competitive, but at every level the Sorcerer is either competitive or flat-out better... which is the definition of a better class.
That's not even bringing Wizards into the equation.
This is a good casting build, leaving you with wide options, focused on doing damage, and able of everything a wizard can do.
Better idea: Gnome Illusionist 5/Master Specialist 2/Shadowcraft Gnome 5/Master Specialist 8. With the right feats you can emulate any Conjuration or Evocation spell in the game at full or greater power... spontaneously. You've also got Spontaneous Divination.
If you think Wizard is worse than Warmage, you don't deserve the server storage that's being wasted on you.
it IS a wizard.
it's just a blaster wizard, who can do anything any other regular wizard can.
Just read up before getting insulting.
The question becomes NinjaRabbit what are you going to do with those spells? With a couple of feats for a sorcerer and the metamagic specialist (or rapid metamagic after level 9) you can cover most of those spells and then some.
Metamagics I recommend for blasting:
Heightened spell (for a spontanentious caster this can make any reserve feats you take always go off at your highest spell level.)
Energy substitution (two or three of these and you don't need 5 orb spells)
Scuplt Spell (cone to line to burst to multiple smaller burst covers all AOE needs)
Widen spell (combine with sculpt spell you can turn that burning hands spell into 4 save throws for 5d4 damage each in a 20'x20' as a third level spell at caster level 5)
Other Feats of use
Residual Magic (recasting with metamagics for free is good, and it can also raise the caster level and DC of item cast spells, this turns a wand into a staff for casting a spell basically)
Metamagic Vigor (iffy on this one but it can raise DC or caster level depending on how you cast)
Fiery Burst (a 5' burst that does your highest spell level in d6 damage unlimited times a day with the same DC as that highest level spell is always useful and saves spells for bigger problems later, use Heightened spell as a spontaenious caster so you don't have to take unneeded spells)
The problem is that a sorceror doesn't have the feats needed to do all of this, whereas a warmage does. At the level we are talking the sorceror can do many other things, but they cannot blast/battlefield control as well as a warmage can at 10th. A sorc can blast and can inflict meaningful damage, but they will be inferior to the warmage at damage/BC at this level.
and tsuyo:
In essence what you are saying is that a class is better if it can be competitive much of the time and better at others? Warmage is better than sorc at the mid ranges and is competitive for every other level. Sorc is better from 16-20, but that is really about it.
Remember, we are talking classes here, not spells. As a class, the warmage offers better in-combat options than the sorc class does. There are some great spells the sorc can get, but a class that has no class features and whose signature ability(spontaneous casting) can be emulated by a wizard(as you show) has very little going for it. Wizards, on the other hand, are the best arcane casting class and can do everything any other arcane casting class can do better.
-AS-
Human bonus, 1st, flaw, flaw, 3rd, 6th, 9th
7 feats here, straight through I didn't do anything fancier than including 2 flaws, we all know better can be done, I would drop the widen I believe.
A class that is a spell caster class is its spell list. Without the list it's just a peasant with a lack of cool. On the class features front I point out all the alternate material for sorcerer, these are class features the sorcerer can choose. If we discount the spell list we might as well say that the fighter is better than the sorcerer becuase he has better HD, Class features and can use armor and all shields profiently.
Spell list = class features, and for a caster class it is paramount, and for battle field control. Those eight feats, and Burning Hands, Shield, Mage Armor, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (5 1st level), glitterdust, blur, Resist Energy, Web (or Touch of Idiocy) (4 2nd level) Dispel magic, Fireball, Slow, (3 3rd level), Evard's Black Tentacles, Lesser Globe of Inv (2 4th level) Summon Monster 5 (or wall of force) (1 5th level).
With those spells I can Blast (burning hands sculpted, or fireball sculpted), controll the battle field (grease, web, black tentacles *sculpted!*), oppose other spell casters (dispel magic, Lesser Globe of Inv *also can be sculpted*), debuff (glitterdust *sculpt*, slow, Ray of Enfeeblement), summon (summon monster 5), and protect myself to a good degree (shield, Mage armor, Blur *to kill sneak attacks*). The feats above make sure I can make good use of any items I find on my way and with the heightened fire ball I can always blast a 10'x10' area for 5d6 damage with a DC of 15 + CHA Mod. With the alternate features I could also pick up HP and weapon focus if I give up the Lesser Globe of Inv by taking stalwart sorcerer.
I just point out that sorcerer at 10th level can easily hold his own against a warmage and at higher level can do even more than just hold his own.
Hmmm Tk, you might want to read the build again.
it IS a wizard.
it's just a blaster wizard, who can do anything any other regular wizard can.
Just read up before getting insulting.
Even if you want to be a blaster, Evoker flat out sucks.
Be a Conjurer or Diviner instead, and just use more normal spellslots on evocation.
Sure, a warmage can toss more DD spells than a sorc. However, DD is nowhere near as important as being able to do things like fly, scout, debuff and control the battlefield. A fireball is a waste of precious spellslots and actions if you can't enough enemies into the radius to make it worthwhile and they all make their saves anyway. You could have spent that time/slot on hasting your party, for better payout.
And so what if a warmage has more spells known? Most of them suck anyway. A sorceror with 8 good spells is better than a warmage with 22 sucky ones and 3 good.
Using a BC spell to lockdown the enemy and then fireballing them > Two fireballs.
Psion. Erudite or Kineticist. Maximize Power + Metapower - Maximize Power / Energy Missile = Win. Then just blast away, starting at 3rd level. Seriously, it's too good to pass up.
Not to mention that you only really need 3 powers for any given situation in blasting: Crystal Shard (No power resistance, no save, ranged touch.), Swarm of Crystals (No power resistance, no save, area effect.) and Energy Missile (Resistance and save for half, but affects 5 targets and has nice benefits to it.)
Then you can go ahead and take a crapton of other powers that get useful in non-combat situations.
Hmmm Tk, you might want to read the build again.
it IS a wizard.
it's just a blaster wizard, who can do anything any other regular wizard can.
Just read up before getting insulting.
So you concede that Wizard is better than Warmage.
So you concede that Wizard is better than Warmage.
To be fair the wizard is better at almost everything than almost everyone else too.
My favourite way of blasting?
Psion. Erudite or Kineticist. Maximize Power + Metapower - Maximize Power / Energy Missile = Win. Then just blast away, starting at 3rd level. Seriously, it's too good to pass up.
Not to mention that you only really need 3 powers for any given situation in blasting: Crystal Shard (No power resistance, no save, ranged touch.), Swarm of Crystals (No power resistance, no save, area effect.) and Energy Missile (Resistance and save for half, but affects 5 targets and has nice benefits to it.)
Then you can go ahead and take a crapton of other powers that get useful in non-combat situations.
I second the suggestion of Psionics. Erudite with the spell to power alt class feature from the web enhancement would be delicious. Regular old Kineticist is solid. Even an Ardent with the Energy mantle is a pretty good blaster...and can wear armor...and can have healing, other very nice utility, etc.
Psionics adds the ability to Nova better, which could be an invaluable option on a blaster.
Or artificer, as I suggested earlier.
So you concede that Wizard is better than Warmage.
There's nothing to concede since i never claimed warmages were better than wizards.
I do claim that they deal more damage in a blasting way thought, not that it makes them more efficient.
There's nothing to concede since i never claimed warmages were better than wizards.
I do claim that they deal more damage in a blasting way thought, not that it makes them more efficient.
You mean except ninth level spells, right?
You mean except ninth level spells, right?
How about I make a claim that your posts will actually address(since it is pretty apparent you haven't read the thread).
Warmages are the best arcane class for direct damage and battlefield control in the mid levels. Since the OP was looking for around level 10, warmage would be BETTER than either a wiz or sorc at blasting/BC. As the warmage advances this quickly fades, but at this level range warmage is superior.
-AS-
How about I make a claim that your posts will actually address(since it is pretty apparent you haven't read the thread).
Warmages are the best arcane class for direct damage and battlefield control in the mid levels. Since the OP was looking for around level 10, warmage would be BETTER than either a wiz or sorc at blasting/BC. As the warmage advances this quickly fades, but at this level range warmage is superior.
-AS-
And might I add TK that you don't have to be defensive, the way you're reacting it's like we're throwing insults at you, not maintaining a legitimate point of view.
But the OP said he wanted to be a wizard, so we'll drop it. Like I said, if you want to be a BLASTING wizard the build I proposed above is mighty fine, and Ultimate Magus is one of the best blasting classes in the game, besides incantatrix.
And might I add TK that you don't have to be defensive, the way you're reacting it's like we're throwing insults at you, not maintaining a legitimate point of view.
Not so much you, but I could name some posters that have been pretty provocative.
How about I make a claim that your posts will actually address(since it is pretty apparent you haven't read the thread).
Warmages are the best arcane class for direct damage and battlefield control in the mid levels.
No. Warmages are the best BLASTERS at that level. Wizards are better at BC. And BC is inherently better than blasting.
Since the OP was looking for around level 10, warmage would be BETTER than either a wiz or sorc at blasting/BC. As the warmage advances this quickly fades, but at this level range warmage is superior.
TBH, I'd rather have him trade a little bit of power now so that he doesn't SUCK ROYALLY later on.
Okay, if one wanted to make a Sorcerer-style blaster at, say, 10th level, for someone who doesn't have any system mastery or tactical mastery, or really anything like that, but who wants to blow stuff up AND be effective, without confusing abilities, how would you do it? I am in the unfortunate position of being in a game with someone who wanted to take a bunch of levels of EXPERT with his sorcerer, and who takes really terrible spells, and doesn't remember what most of the things on his character sheet mean. He's the guy that uses web on high level rogues, over and over again. How can I help this guy, you know, not suck?
This answer doesn't really relate to the OP, but I think the OP might have more master over the system than the guy you're talking about.
Tell him to play a Sorceror, suggest (steal character sheet and add) spells he should take, and instruct him on the best targets of said spells? I mean, if he can't remember that, maybe he shouldn't play a spellcaster? Maybe a Warlock or DFA so he can safely blast and use his invocations?
This answer doesn't really relate to the OP, but I think the OP might have more master over the system than the guy you're talking about.
Tell him to play a Sorceror, suggest (steal character sheet and add) spells he should take, and instruct him on the best targets of said spells? I mean, if he can't remember that, maybe he shouldn't play a spellcaster? Maybe a Warlock or DFA so he can safely blast and use his invocations?
Well, he is playing a sorcerer now. He just wanted to take a few levels of expert for the skills... ugh... but he still doesn't know what he's doing.
Warlock might work... hmmm...
Well, he is playing a sorcerer now. He just wanted to take a few levels of expert for the skills... ugh... but he still doesn't know what he's doing.
Warlock might work... hmmm...
The only reason to take Expert is that you can choose your class skills. Rogue and other 8+ skill points classes get more skills. Or, he could take levels in Factotum, which gets all skills as class skills.
No. Warmages are the best BLASTERS at that level. Wizards are better at BC. And BC is inherently better than blasting.
Unless you nova and one-shot an entire combat. Against 10 bodaks, you can burn a BC spell and divvy them up or incapacitate some of them, or you can nova and kill them all with one spell, saving spell slots overall, and eliminating their ability to run up to the party and make everyone roll 10 save or dies.
There's a 3x difference between the different fireballs I threw out in my previous post - in one case, the sorcerer didn't accomplish anything, and might have killed the party because he did some minor damage instead of sealing off the bodaks. In the optimized case, he novaed and killed them all, save or no save.
To the people arguing about warmages, take the damage up from 155 to 157 to account for the warmages super awesome warmage edge.
Unless you nova and one-shot an entire combat. Against 10 bodaks, you can burn a BC spell and divvy them up or incapacitate some of them, or you can nova and kill them all with one spell, saving spell slots overall, and eliminating their ability to run up to the party and make everyone roll 10 save or dies.
Or I could cast a spell to block LoS. Or I could lay down an AMF, since their glare is an Su ability. Or I could buff my party to be immune to death effects. Or give myself Blindsight and close my eyes. At higher levels, Undeath to Death is an option.
Or I could teleport us out of there and prepare more adequately for this kind of encounter.
Or I could cast a spell to block LoS. Or I could lay down an AMF, since their glare is an Su ability. Or I could buff my party to be immune to death effects. Or give myself Blindsight and close my eyes. At higher levels, Undeath to Death is an option.
Or I could teleport us out of there and prepare more adequately for this kind of encounter.
Are we talking wizards again with this? No one disputes wizards are the best at the highest levels.
A couple of points about your brief analysis:
A warmage has excellent BC spells and can block LoS easily. As I(and others) have said repeatedly, warmages have a wide variety of BC spells at their disposal and at 10th level can out BC a wiz and out BC the sorc by a mile.
-AS-
Consider evard
Now consider evard's black tentacles damage. 1d6+4
Now change that damage to 1d6 +10.
Suddenly, it's a HECK MORE annoying spell.
Same with fireshield, mass. 1d6 +CL is good, 1d6 +CL +Int+warmage edge is hella annoying.
I mean you're gonna prc out after level 5 anyway but that just my vote.
I'm not gonna waste time arguing about it really.
I will make the statement that in my opinon that warmages are the worst spellcasting class that I can think of ... well its on par with the shadowcaster as written in the Tob. Its down there even below someof the melee classes.
*shrug* thats my vote.
Although I would nod to the guy that suggested psionics. Maybe the wilder erudite or somthing would be the best, couse I never looked at it to blast. . .
I think I'm gonna vote sorceror... or hell even wizard focused specialist...
I mean you're gonna prc out after level 5 anyway but that just my vote.
I'm not gonna waste time arguing about it really.
I will make the statement that in my opinon that warmages are the worst spellcasting class that I can think of ... well its on par with the shadowcaster as written in the Tob. Its down there even below someof the melee classes.
*shrug* thats my vote.
Although I would nod to the guy that suggested psionics. Maybe the wilder erudite or somthing would be the best, couse I never looked at it to blast. . .
I believe the OP went with wizard(the most powerful option in general). Many people share your sentiment on the warmage, even when faced with convincing evidence.
Any full caster is more powerful than a noncaster. 9th level spells/powers trump everything else out there. Since the warmage has access to these it keeps them near the top in power. People like to say how powerful casting is until it comes to warmage, then suddenly having access to 9th level spells is meaningless. Certainly the default warmage list of 9th levels is not equal to sorc/wiz or cleric, but there are more than enough ways to correct this. Any melee class will get trounced by a high level caster and even high level maneuversfrom ToB are typically just weakened versions of spells(Strike of Righteous Vitality, Inferno Blast, Strike of Perfect Clarity, Feral Death Blow, etc). Only Time Stands Still is really comparable.
I have heard good things about psionic blasters, but I don't much like psionics.
-AS-
Stuff AS-
*sigh* Yeah... well the whole caster non-caster thing is just what it is.
That was actually hyperbole intended to illustrate how overall a bad class I think the warmage is, and some of that maybe just my general feel about evocation ... not fair in this thread so...
I retract that. Generically speaking yes any caster is better than any noncaster
I do think however it's the least of the spellcasters, and I don't mean to offend you as It's clearly found some way into your heart.
I just dont' think its good or well supported enough. Ironically I think the Dread necro is great but I was thinking that there is a good warmage build somewhere maybe one with fell drain and fellfrighten prc'd into dread which & Fiend-blooded for a few more spells. Still though At that point were not just blasting.
"Spellcasters are the most powerful" doesn't always hold up. Most people regard the two weakest classes in the game to be the CW Samurai and the MH Healer, which gets 9th level spells. Having 9th levels spells isn't useful if none of the spells you h ave are useful.
If the Healer could cast Miracle, Shapechange or Time Stop would that change your mind?
-AS-
If the Healer could cast Miracle, Shapechange or Time Stop would that change your mind?
-AS-
One decent 9th level spell at 17th level won't stop 16 levels of playing Band-aid.
I'm going to be a voice of dissent here and say that a fairly well-built character who focuses on blasting CAN be viable in most games. The perspective around here is a little off. In the typical D&D game, it really isn't necessary to wring every last ounce of effectiveness out of every level, feat, and skill point. If you really want to blow things to kingdom come as your schtick, why not play a warmage? Or, if you feel like mixing things up a bit and still having some utility spells, a warmage/aburer or transmuter (evocation & enchantment as barred schools; you don't need to mesmerize people and you'll have almost every "BOOM!" spell worth knowing as a warmage)/ultimate magus?
Like we haven't been doing this for years and give 2 flips about your opinion about the "perspective" 'round here.
You ask "why not play a warmage" the reason why is because the Original Posters question was how to play a blaster that doesn't suck.
You know why he asked us this? Because we dont' suck at what we do. Unlinke the warmage, we are what we advertise. We (generally) dedicate a part of our daily lives to help people do things they want to do in the game we love. We're able to do this because we actually "CAN" wring every last ounce of effectiveness out of every level, feat, and skill point. Funny thing is despite you saying "Why not play a warmage" you told him to "not play a warmage" play a
Wmg1/Wiz4/Ult. with practiced spellcaster.
The perspective at the Co boards turn to **** when people start to preach about the perspective should be.
What people are missing is that just because the WIzad is better than the Warmage, and just because everything magical is better than blasting, doesn't mean blasting's bad in comparison to non-casters. Sure, there are better things to do with your spell slots, but even casting Fireball means you're doing comparable damage to a Fighter that isn't optimized up the wazoo.
He's right, though.
What people are missing is that just because the WIzad is better than the Warmage, and just because everything magical is better than blasting, doesn't mean blasting's bad in comparison to non-casters. Sure, there are better things to do with your spell slots, but even casting Fireball means you're doing comparable damage to a Fighter that isn't optimized up the wazoo.
I'm sorry Tsuyoshikentsu. Who's right? Ander? Wih?
I said generally speaking and he brought out the healer. Oddly I could find a way to make the healer good because I wouldn't stay a healer at all. 5 levels maybe then prc to something that gives me a variant spell list. I migt have to do something extreme like fiend blooded or sand shaper or even nar demonbinder but somewhere round level 10 I'll be wrecking people (albeit late) with a "healer"
I'm going to be a voice of dissent here and say that a fairly well-built character who focuses on blasting CAN be viable in most games. The perspective around here is a little off. In the typical D&D game, it really isn't necessary to wring every last ounce of effectiveness out of every level, feat, and skill point. If you really want to blow things to kingdom come as your schtick, why not play a warmage? Or, if you feel like mixing things up a bit and still having some utility spells, a warmage/aburer or transmuter (evocation & enchantment as barred schools; you don't need to mesmerize people and you'll have almost every "BOOM!" spell worth knowing as a warmage)/ultimate magus?
Do we get like a warning pool for telling people to STFU or do I have to start posting kittens to say it or something?
Like we haven't been doing this for years and give 2 flips about your opinion about the "perspective" 'round here.
You ask "why not play a warmage" the reason why is because the Original Posters question was how to play a blaster that doesn't suck.
You know why he asked us this? Because we dont' suck at what we do. Unlinke the warmage, we are what we advertise. We (generally) dedicate a part of our daily lives to help people do things they want to do in the game we love. We're able to do this because we actually "CAN" wring every last ounce of effectiveness out of every level, feat, and skill point. Funny thing is despite you saying "Why not play a warmage" you told him to "not play a warmage" play a
Wmg1/Wiz4/Ult. with practiced spellcaster.
The perspective at the Co boards turn to **** when people start to preach about the perspective should be.
The funny thing is both of them are right.
(tho one post is sillier than the other but silly can be good;)
The typical "primary caster" roll is one of Buff/Debuff/Battlefield Control (AKA "God"). One of the primary reasons that most optimizers go with it is because those spells are composed of equal parts "awesome" and "win". My current character is a Focused Specialist Conjurer who focuses on those very things. However, there is still room for the Big Stupid Fighter and Glass Cannon.
As a "blaster/caster", you're looking at fulfilling the Glass Cannon roll, but whereas this is mostly done by weapons (TWF Rogue), you want to do it with spells. That's totally cool.
So, what does a Glass Cannon (GC) do? A GC does the most damage possible while taking the least damage possible. This means you'll be focusing on direct damage spells (magic missile, fireball, scorching ray) and save-or-die spells (finger of death, power word kill, flesh to stone). You want a smaller list of spells with a higher number of castings. There are a couple ways you can do this.
First you can take Sorcerer. Sorcerers have the most castings per day of any arcane class. If you take the PHB2 variant sorcerer, you can even apply some cool metamagic abilities like "Quicken Spell". However, Sorcerers lag Wizards in when they get the cool spells, and this is a HUGE drawback. When you're a 13th level sorcerer and your opponent is a 13th level wizard, he has 6th lvel spells and you... don't. End of sentence.
The other option is to specialize. Now, you already said you don't want to be an evoker, and that's a good thing. Evocation is the most poorly supported school of magic. You aren't going to want to ban it, though, because as far as direct damage goes, you can't beat it. Sure, you can substitute it (see Treantmonk's "God's Tools" threads for how), but you just can't beat it. For that very same reason, you don't want to go with a Focused Specialist either because that will require you to ban 3 schools, and if you aren't banning Evocation, what the hell are you banning?!?
Personally, I would go with a Specialist Conjurer banning Enchantment and probably Necromancy. Check out the feats Metamagic School Focus and Arcane Thesis to decrease metamagic costs. Look at Empower Spell and Maximize Spell (btw Empower is mechanically superior) to optimize your damage potential. You might consider taking Energy Substitution to augment evocation spells. You will definitely want to take Archmage to get the "Master of Shaping" and "Master of Elements" abilities.
If you want, I might be able to come up with some kind of build. Good luck.
Like we haven't been doing this for years and give 2 flips about your opinion about the "perspective" 'round here.
You ask "why not play a warmage" the reason why is because the Original Posters question was how to play a blaster that doesn't suck.
You know why he asked us this? Because we dont' suck at what we do. Unlinke the warmage, we are what we advertise. We (generally) dedicate a part of our daily lives to help people do things they want to do in the game we love. We're able to do this because we actually "CAN" wring every last ounce of effectiveness out of every level, feat, and skill point. Funny thing is despite you saying "Why not play a warmage" you told him to "not play a warmage" play a
Wmg1/Wiz4/Ult. with practiced spellcaster.
The perspective at the Co boards turn to **** when people start to preach about the perspective should be.
You should follow your own advice.
Posts like this is why people think the CO boards are peppered with a bunch of rude schmucks. And you are not the voice of the CO boards, just another loud mouth, insulting jerk.
Being able to copy the well-known poster's ability to embed cat images does not make your points any more valuable.
The tone and childishness of your post goes farther to illustrate why people should ignore what you say then any of your "advice" possibly can.
-AS-
The thing here is, sometimes, you just need damage. I will give an exemple:
In the game where I play an evoker/wmg/ultimate magus. Here is the composition of the rest of the party:
Fgt/Sorcerer/Abjurant Champion
Fgt/Warblade
Cleric/Warmaster
Wizard/Warweaver
Fgt/barb/warblade/Devoted Defender (sword and board)
Pixie Rogue/wizard/unseen Seer
As you can see, there is already a god, already a buffer, already a .... pretty much everything. What the party lacked is damage, as in, mass area damage. I stepped in and filled the role and have been very helpful so far.
Nothing says: hello grouped ennemies like 3 fireballs poping out at 800 feet one of them empowered (Mine!! ) it's one way to start an encounter like any other. Of course, me or the warweaver can just not cast a fireball and cast something like evard's black tentacles. But then the fighters won't have fun
Artificers are supposed to be hilariously good at blasting as well.
But anyway, getting back to the OP, basically whether you decide to go sorcerer, wizard, warmage, psion, wilder, or whatever, the key to DPS blasting is to use lots of metamagic/metapsionics, and find ways to reduce their spell level adjustments. If you can find a way to cast an empowered, maximized fireball as a 5th level spell instead of an 8th level spell, then you've found a way to make direct-damage competitive with save-or-die/suck. It doesn't matter what specific class or route you take; you'll at least be viable if you can accomplish something close to this.