Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 eindrachen Dec 04, 2012 15:29:26	I notice that the rules talk about selling a spellbook for half the price of writing the spells in it.  Would it be safe to presume that a book can be bought for 100 gp per page, by someone interested in obtaining such things (like a chameleon tired of looking over the party wizard or wu jen just to get some spells for the day)?
#2 StevenO Dec 04, 2012 16:18:24	I'm saying no. I assume you want to buy a spellbook that already contains spells in it and because it cost 100gp per page and takes a page per spell level to scribe a spell you want it preloaded.  When I consider that it costs 50gp per spell level just to copy a spell from another wizard's spellbook (a price I consider too cheap for higher level spells) you just want to pay twice that for permanent access to that spell.  Now for another spellbook you still can't prepare spells from it easily (Spellcraft: DC = 15+spell level) but don't forget someone had to write that book in the first place. I guess that if I were to follow the rules I'd need to let you "buy" a spellbook preloaded with spells at 150gp per page.  This covers the cost of scribing the spell into the book and the aquisition cost normally charged for a given spell.  This is also the same price it would cost you to aquire and scribe a spell into your own spellbook from another wizard.  Now as the DM I am going to restrict which spells you can get this way and while I believe these number are the RAW you shouldn't be surprised if I make higher level spells exponentially more expensive.
#3 awaken_D_M_golem Dec 04, 2012 16:18:56	Yes , is the simple / over simplified answer. www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneS... Any given town either might have a Wizard or will have a Wizard.  Then you go have a Gather Info fest.  Perhaps a few go rounds of Diplomacy.  And then the town Wizard up and decides to make some money off of you at the standard going rates, while keeping his Spellbook for safety's sake.  Which you take him up on, because Spells are cheaper than Spellbooks.
#4 StevenO Dec 04, 2012 16:25:43	Yes , is the simple / over simplified answer. www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneS... I was looking the same place and came to the opposite conclusion. The rules may talk about (the PCs) selling a spellbook at half the price it costs to write the spells into the book but that is because basically EVERYTHING the PCs sell will only give them half what it would cost them. In the case of buying a spellbook preloaded with spells you also need to factor in the cost of aquiring the spell from the source.  A wizard creating a spellbook for you is perfectly justified to charge you 150gp per page of written spell to cover both his cost of scribing the spell and the bonus for letting you have the spell to begin with.
#5 eindrachen Dec 04, 2012 17:22:48	Any given town either might have a Wizard or will have a Wizard.  Then you go have a Gather Info fest.  Perhaps a few go rounds of Diplomacy.  And then the town Wizard up and decides to make some money off of you at the standard going rates, while keeping his Spellbook for safety's sake.  Which you take him up on, because Spells are cheaper than Spellbooks. First, I specifically said that this spellbook was for a chameleon to cast their own spells, so asking a wizard to cast spells for me is completely off-point.  I don't even know what brought you to make that comment in the first place. Second, I already thought of counters to your scenario above, but since you're not my DM and I'm not yours, debating all this here is a complete exercise in futility.  Your example is situational, specific, and certainly not applicable all of the time. The rules may talk about (the PCs) selling a spellbook at half the price it costs to write the spells into the book but that is because basically EVERYTHING the PCs sell will only give them half what it would cost them. In the case of buying a spellbook preloaded with spells you also need to factor in the cost of aquiring the spell from the source.  A wizard creating a spellbook for you is perfectly justified to charge you 150gp per page of written spell to cover both his cost of scribing the spell and the bonus for letting you have the spell to begin with.   I was actually kind of thinking that the 150 gp was reasonable, all things considered.  I wasn't sure, however, since in general it costs one-half market price to create anything.  Since magic items themselves are actually infinitely more powerful than a spellbook (i.e. you don't have to be a wizard to use many of them, and they can be just as effective), and they only cost double, the logic seemed to fit that the spellbook would also only be double.  But since spellbooks are also reusable, 150 gp per page doesn't seem unreasonable; you're basically paying for the source of a daily ability that's usable at will. I would throw caution to the winds and tell the DM that I just buy random books off NPC adventurers for 50 gp per page, but there is no telling what he'll put in there.  ("Okay.  This book seems to have belonged to Bargle the Infamous, and contains about a third of the spells you said you were looking for.  It also seems to have lots of spells for creating undead, summoning demons, and causing baby seals to explode.  Say, where is Bob's paladin right now?  At the same table?  Hey, Bob, your paladin sees this book, and could swear it's bound with what looks like human skin...") 150 gp per page seems slightly excessive, but for a custom-made book that doesn't make the rest of the party kill me on sight, I think I can live with it.
#6 StevenO Dec 04, 2012 17:40:48	If you were "randomly" buying spellbooks off of other adventurers you'd better believe that finding that rare spell you want just isn't going to happen unless I want it to happen.  If you do that 80% of the spells you find will be what I consider to be "common" spells and most of the remaining spells will be uncommon ones. Although it still takes a lot of knowledge to cast it I really don't think a "Wish" spell should be available to learn for a measely 1350gp which is what it costs to copy and scribe. Charging you 150gp per page (effectively 150xspell level) may be excessive for 1st level spells where you could buy a scroll for just 25gp in most cases and as you hit 2nd-level spells (300 gp vs. 150 for scroll + 200 to scribe) and the meat that are 3rd level spells the prices are about even (450 gp vs. 375+300) you'll quickly see that is dirt cheap when it comes to aquiring spells.  I know that if you buy a scroll you could use if for something other then adding to your spellbook but that is quite a mark up. I say that even if you "value" a 9th-level spell in a spellbook at 1350 gp and it is still a cheap way to aquire it even if you consider another 900 gp to put it in your own spellbook.  A scroll with a 9th-level spell will cost a minimum of 3825 gp (wish is actually a lot more) and then you'd still need to scribe it.
#7 draco1119 Dec 04, 2012 18:05:59	Any given town either might have a Wizard or will have a Wizard.  Then you go have a Gather Info fest.  Perhaps a few go rounds of Diplomacy.  And then the town Wizard up and decides to make some money off of you at the standard going rates, while keeping his Spellbook for safety's sake.  Which you take him up on, because Spells are cheaper than Spellbooks. First, I specifically said that this spellbook was for a chameleon to cast their own spells, so asking a wizard to cast spells for me is completely off-point.  I don't even know what brought you to make that comment in the first place. Since you two seem to know each other, maybe there's a history here I don't know about... But I took it to mean that the town's wizard would let you COPY the spell(s), not sell you the spellbook.
#8 MrCustomer Dec 05, 2012 9:59:54	It should be noted that a Spell book is considered somewhat personal by Wizards. Yhey may be willing to sell a Scroll of a spell, but asking to look through their spell book is a whole different matter. It's the difference between asking someone for a phone number and asking them for the entire Contact list from their cell phone complete with email adresses, street adresses and all their inbox/outbox of text messages...
#9 StevenO Dec 05, 2012 10:50:52	It should be noted that a Spell book is considered somewhat personal by Wizards. Yhey may be willing to sell a Scroll of a spell, but asking to look through their spell book is a whole different matter. It's the difference between asking someone for a phone number and asking them for the entire Contact list from their cell phone complete with email adresses, street adresses and all their inbox/outbox of text messages... A spellbook may be a personal thing but as I'm reading thing the OP is basically asking about getting a full copy of a spellbook from that wizard.
#10 MrCustomer Dec 05, 2012 12:52:11	I would select a number of common spells that are typical, and then maybe roll a few  Random Spells from the Scroll table, or selected randomly from the Spell Compendium. It might be more cost effective to try and buy specific scrolls. While Spells in general are cheaper this way, you are also paying for many copies of spells you allready have
#11 awaken_D_M_golem Dec 05, 2012 17:46:31	Any given town either might have a Wizard or will have a Wizard.  Then you go have a Gather Info fest.  Perhaps a few go rounds of Diplomacy.  And then the town Wizard up and decides to make some money off of you at the standard going rates, while keeping his Spellbook for safety's sake.  Which you take him up on, because Spells are cheaper than Spellbooks. First, I specifically said that this spellbook was for a chameleon to cast their own spells, so asking a wizard to cast spells for me is completely off-point.  I don't even know what brought you to make that comment in the first place. Since you two seem to know each other, maybe there's a history here I don't know about... But I took it to mean that the town's wizard would let you COPY the spell(s), not sell you the spellbook. Nope, never heard of him ( / her / it ... this is the internet yes?) before now. Certainly a home game can do whatever they want to, with the core rules.  Any way that I might have a vulcan mindmeld at a distance in Real Life, ability ... I'd like to know about it. "COPY" = yes.  Part of the rules at the link. So I guess SteveO and I are agreeing in some way. I won't attempt to imagine how ... I've got internets to watch.
#12 StevenO Dec 05, 2012 18:20:32	"COPY" = yes.  Part of the rules at the link. So I guess SteveO and I are agreeing in some way. I won't attempt to imagine how ... I've got internets to watch. I'm not sure where we are agreeing.  The OP asked if it is "safe to presume that a book can be bought for 100 gp per page" and we came up with the opposite answer from the same material.  If the question is just "can I buy a spellbook with spells already in it?" I think we can agree the answer is yes but we definitely differ on how much that should cost. If I'm a generous Wizard I'll make you a spellbook but I'm going to charge you for my spells (that 50gp/level) and I'm also going to make you pay for material (100gp/page/level) to recoup my costs.  This isn't exactly "making an item" which may give you a price break because I could come around sometime and pick up that spellbook I made you and use it as well as I could use my own.  You'll note the quoted price is actually ignoring the normal spellbook cost which becomes relatively insignificant.
#13 awaken_D_M_golem Dec 06, 2012 14:00:54	That does make sense. And we're agreeing I called you:  steve(blank)o , by accident.