cu
woud say no, but only because of the Arrow Demon (who can do this, and has an extra racial feature and not two weapon fighting...)
cu
Thank you for the input. Anyone have any thoughts on the RAW or RAI for this matter?
Multiweapon Fighting [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit
Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by 2 with the primary hand and reduced by 6 with off hands.
Normal
A creature without this feat takes a -6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a -10 penalty on attacks made with its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.
Special
This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.
The Thri-Kreen entry in MM2 doesn't technically say they can use multiple weapons in 1 full attack.
If you look at their attack entry, they have 3 different attacks listed: claws + bite, OR melee weapon + bite OR ranged weapon.
Any sane DM who is letting you play as TK is not going to complain if you use 2 bows and take Multiweapon Fighting as your feat.
The better question is why are TK only a CR1 encounter. but have an ECL of +3? WTF? (granted the abilities you get are definitely 2+ ecl, but their CR seems low)
Main difficulty is that the bow is normally wielded with the arms across the front of the body. Alternately, you could wield the 2 bows horizontally. The reason you couldn't wield a bow and arrow with the same side's arms, is that part of the strength behind the shot comes from being able to pull the arrow back along the same plane as the bow arm. Of course, you could ask to homebrew a style where one arm wielded a reinforced bow, while the other 3 launched arrows at the same time...
Again, thanks for the input but does anyone have any rules info?
BTW, here is what wielding two-bows would look like...
You most certainly can, provided you take the feat.
They definitely can use 2 bows, however, you will have to take the feat Multiweapon Fighting shown here on the SRD.
The Thri-Kreen entry in MM2 doesn't technically say they can use multiple weapons in 1 full attack.
If you look at their attack entry, they have 3 different attacks listed: claws + bite, OR melee weapon + bite OR ranged weapon.
Any sane DM who is letting you play as TK is not going to complain if you use 2 bows and take Multiweapon Fighting as your feat.
The better question is why are TK only a CR1 encounter. but have an ECL of +3? WTF? (granted the abilities you get are definitely 2+ ecl, but their CR seems low)
I'm not convinced Multiweapon Fighting is applicable here. A bow is held in one hand while the arrows are handled with the other. In the case of a four-armed archer, two bows are being wielded in two hands while the other two hands string and release the arrows. Multiweapon fighting replaces TWF in that it governs the use of more than two weapons, which is not the case here.
I'm not convinced Multiweapon Fighting is applicable here. A bow is held in one hand while the arrows are handled with the other. In the case of a four-armed archer, two bows are being wielded in two hands while the other two hands string and release the arrows. Multiweapon fighting replaces TWF in that it governs the use of more than two weapons, which is not the case here.
Ok, let me try this without sounding derogatory or like I'm talking down to you, because I'm really not working that angle, just trying to help.
Not what MW Fighting says: It replaces TWF. Note also the pre-req - Three or more hands.
When you say things like "MWF replaces TWF in that it governs the use of more than two weapons..."
No. No. No. No. No. Nowhere in MWF does it state that more than 2 weapons are used. It says "multi" - multi means more than ONE.
Go back to the pre-req of the feat: three or more hands. Once again, nothing to do with number of weapons.
Next, let's go to weapons. There are 1h weapons, and there are 2h weapons. What is a bow? In the PHB pg. 118-119 it says specifically "you need at least 2 hands to use a longbow". So a longbow is a 2h weapon. You have 4 hands. So you could use 2 longbows.
Since you have 3 or more hands, you're supposed to use the MWF feats, NOT the TWF fights as they specifically say they replace TWF feat chain (because you have 3+ hands!)
A bow requires 2 hands to use. TWF does not let you use 2h weapons in ONE HAND.
Again, thanks for the input but does anyone have any rules info?
BTW, here is what wielding two-bows would look like...
Lol, if he fires the top bow the string will cut/be blocked by the arm holding the bottom one. That's a really silly image.
Under TWF it has several things you can do. Read page 160 PHB.
Double Weapons.
Thrown Weapons.
Light Weapons.
Nowhere in TWF does it mention the ability to use 2h weapons, or bows.
A bow is a 2h weapon.
Additionally, I refer back to MM2 which says that Thri-Kreen take MWF and Multidexterity and Multiattack to the exclusion of other feats.
Yeah, I know, you can do whatever you want with your character. Thing is, the multi-feats exist BECAUSE of multi-limbed characters. I'm pretty sure the verbiage is there in the MWF that I linked to indicate that you take MWF INSTEAD OF TWF.
Read that one more time. Because you have three or more hands, you take MWF INSTEAD OF TWF.
That's why MWF says it REPLACES TWF if you have 3 or more HANDS.
Again, thanks for the input but does anyone have any rules info?
BTW, here is what wielding two-bows would look like... *snipped*
and that image shows what's wrong with doubel bow shooting. The bowstring of the upper bow is going to cut the arm holding the lower bow up. Either that guy has really tough skin or he wants to badly injure his arm.
" We have a paladin, he smites things, we gots a wizard, he blows things up."
"Oh yeah? Whats the bug do?"
"We call him Turret. You dont wanna know..."
Why bows? there is a nice little paragraph in the combat chapter of PhB that states TWF( And hence MWF) can be used to fire crossbows, one in each hand. I can see it now... 4 Quick loading Ghostly reloading +1 crossbows
" We have a paladin, he smites things, we gots a wizard, he blows things up."
"Oh yeah? Whats the bug do?"
"We call him Turret. You dont wanna know..."
Only problem is that IMWF is available only at BAB+9 and GMWF at +15. A far cry from TWF's +6 and +11 respectively. I think someone borked those feats up as printed...
Otherwise, he'll remind me of all those manga space ships with their ultrafast rate of fire for 100-inch guns and missiles the size of the Empire State Building.
Umm... Guys? The Thri-Kreen has a racial weapon called the Gythka. Might want to look that up in relation to whether you can wield two bows at the same time
I already did. And as I've said before, just like what it says in MM2, you need MWF to use 2 weapons for the TK.
Example: The bow is held in the upper left hand. For the first shot, use the arrow in the upper right hand. Next the lower right hand passes the arrow to the upper right hand. Finally, the lower left hand passes the arrow it's holding to the upper right hand.
Technically the three free hands could all draw arrows from quivers at the same time before you fire. That's my two copper
Of course, logically you can't wield two bows with four arms due to the bowstring snapping against your forearm and injuring you. It doesn't leave more than a welt, but it is too distracting of an injury to avoid dropping the second bow.
I searched the FAQ, this forum, and Surreals thread and cannot seem to locate any guidance on this question. Is it possible for a Thri-kreen to wield two bows? If so, can he use the Two-Weapon Fighting feats (including Improved and Greater) to get more attacks per round? The feat descriptions and the rules for TWF in the PH don't seem to prohibit this. The Multiweapon feats would seems to apply as well but seem to be written for more than two-weapons. Thanks in advance for help.
the simple answer is yes, and you don't have to change anything really. Remember that you can hold the bows both at a horizontal angle, and not deal with the problem of snapping on arm on a string.
If a Thri-Keen can weild two Gythka with ease, two bows shouldn't be a problem.
However, to be a little more specific, and to look in depth on the race itself, don't go to the MM2...that doesn't cover the Thri-Keen as a Playable Race..that covers it as a monster entry, and tells you little on it being able to do as a playable character.
Take a look into the EPH (Expanded Psionics Handbook), which covers the Thri-keen as a playable race, and I would also take a look at the Savage Species Book, which covers alot of the monsterous races as Playable Characters and special feats for multi-limbed characters.
1) Is it possible for a Thri-kreen to wield two bows?
2) If so, can he use the Two-Weapon Fighting feats (including Improved and Greater) to get more attacks per round?
1) Possibly, ask your DM.
2) No, but you should be able to use Multiweapon fighting.
I'm not convinced Multiweapon Fighting is applicable here.
Do you have more than 2 arms? If so, then you can only use Multiweapon Fighting. If you have 2 arms, then you use Two Weapon Fighting.
and that image shows what's wrong with doubel bow shooting. The bowstring of the upper bow is going to cut the arm holding the lower bow up. Either that guy has really tough skin or he wants to badly injure his arm.
They have Dr 5/cold iron and good. Something tells me that bow string is not good,or made of cold iron.
1) Possibly, ask your DM.
2) No, but you should be able to use Multiweapon fighting.
This has already been addressed.
Do you have more than 2 arms? If so, then you can only use Multiweapon Fighting. If you have 2 arms, then you use Two Weapon Fighting.
Actually, the prerequisite is having 3 or more hands, not 3 or more arms. Not a big difference, but we might as well stick to the RAW.
This has already been addressed.
Actually, the prerequisite is having 3 or more hands, not 3 or more arms. Not a big difference, but we might as well stick to the RAW.
I get that you don't like me. At least I do now, as you have just pointed out the obvious in 3 of my posts (from different threads.)
Can you give me an example of something that has arms without hands? Short of "oops someone chopped off my hand?"
Do you think many reasonable readers were confused by my use of arms instead of hands? Especially when arm refers to a "human upper limb" which requires a hand to be at the end of the wrist?
Granted, I did say arm and not hand like the feat. So maybe I deserve my lashing.
:PCreatures with more than two arms can take either TWF or MWF. MWF allows a four armed creature to use 1, 2, 3, or 4 weapons. TWF lets that same creature use 1 or 2 weapons, but not 3 or 4.
So TWF would allow a four armed creature to dual wield 2-handers, at the cost of never wielding more than two weapons. Conversely, a four armed creature with MWF could also dual wield 2-handers, or could quad wield 1-handers (or some combination yielding 3 weapons, such as a 2-hander and dual 1-handers), at the cost of higher requirements for the feat chain.
Again, this is my personal opinion, but this is how it works in my campaign. Ultimately this is going to be something you need to work out with your DM.
Oh crap, I have 4 arms, but none of them have hands, they're tentacles. No Multi-weapon Fighting for me!
False.
Arms are not tentacles, they are appendages.
At least if you go by Websters.
risner, he's referring to something like a mind-flayer or other tentacle monster that could conceivably have four arm-like appendages, but lack hands.
Kind of. I was thinking of something that had 4 tentacles extending from the torso(say, anthro-cuttlefish?), but with no hands/fingers, it doesn't qualify for MWF by a strict interpretation of RAW.
Summary and my interpretation: MWF replaces TWF in all applicable circumnstances for Thri-Kreen.
I get that you don't like me. At least I do now, as you have just pointed out the obvious in 3 of my posts (from different threads.)
Relax. I just don't see what re-iterating what someone else already said adds to a discussion. And I believe that if we are talking about the rules, we might as well stick to RAW (especially if the difference is not obvious). If I pointed these things out in several of your posts, it could also be that it's something you tend to do.
As I said, the arm/hand issue is not a big deal, but it is not what's written in the rules. As a fan of the RAW I thought you'd understand.
Can you give me an example of something that has arms without hands? Short of "oops someone chopped off my hand?"
There's the issue of whether a claw/paw/talon counts as a hand. Technically probably not, so a monster with arms but no hands (the Xorn, the Shambling Mound in MM1 (seems to have three arms), a Rast (if you consider these things it has as arms), the Necromant [MM3], the Slaughterstone Eviscerator [MM3], and Mezzoloth [MM3], to name a few eamples) shouldn't qualify by RAW even though they have 3+ arms. Interestingly, the Thri-Kreen's claw-like things are supposed to be hands, so they do qualify for the feat.
I do, however, find it curious that a creature with 3+ arms that lost a hand or two might not qualify for the feat anymore.
Relax. I just don't see what re-iterating what someone else already said adds to a discussion.
As a fan of the RAW I thought you'd understand.
There's the issue of whether a claw/paw/talon counts as a hand. (the Xorn, the Shambling Mound in MM1 (seems to have three arms), a Rast (if you consider these things it has as arms), the Necromant [MM3], the Slaughterstone Eviscerator [MM3], and Mezzoloth [MM3], to name a few eamples)
Well, I find value in re-iterating, since it prevents the "that is a lone opinion" rebuttal. I re-iterate often and regularly.
I'm a true fan of RAW, and I was sloppy with my wording. Both are true, I should have said hands.
You gave me several excellent examples of how sloppy I was with the use of arms vs hands with the Xorn, etc.
Lol, if he fires the top bow the string will cut/be blocked by the arm holding the bottom one. That's a really silly image.
HEY, that's my line!
Yeah, glad to see someone else caught that.
Oh crap, I have 4 arms, but none of them have hands, they're tentacles. No Multi-weapon Fighting for me!
Indeed. You qualify for Multiattack, but no MWF for you!