Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 19:13:16	I'm in need of some help. We just hit level 9 and I've taken leadership. Now here's the problem. My new cohort (lvl 7) need to be able to survive AND be useful during the combat encounters but I've got no idea what to make him into to complement the current team. The captain: Human Rogue/fighter/legendary captain/scarlet corsair/dread pirate...you get the idea His right hand man (me): Human Cheater of Mystra (tune down a lil bit;) ) The Cannoneer: human Warlock (hammer blast + eldritch spear) Strike man 1: Drow Duskblade (didn't look at his sheet yet...) Strike man 2: Human Fighter (chain tripper so far) The other guy: Changeling rogue/cleric/divine trickster (PrC from the OoTS website) We're a pirate crew if you didn't guess yet. I'm getting an assistant but like I said, he need to be useful in combat as the DM is give us a hard time (even with me being a Cheater of mystra!). Any suggestion is welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance. The Swords Master
#2 jaque Apr 02, 2009 19:23:08	Been awhile since I have poured through my books and I was never a die hard optimizer, but a swashbuckler would fit thematically. Not sure what else would work though.
#3 thaliost Apr 02, 2009 19:27:12	Really depends on in what way you're having a tough time. Does your DM use spellcasting NPCs more often than brutal ones or the opposite?
#4 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 19:28:10	Swashbuckler looks good but considering the current combat encounter it's gonna fail really bad. The combat encounters are hard and it's not just the monster but also the hazard...we ARE pirates after all :P The Swords Master
#5 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 19:31:59	As of now we haven't seen much spellcasting NPC's but it's only a matter of time. Might be worthy of note to consider that it's a very high magic setting with lots of magic item as treasure and funky magic nobody knows anything about...yet(he call it ancient fey magic). The Swords Master
#6 owls_and_more_owls Apr 02, 2009 19:35:12	Sounds like you need a cook. Dont want to get scurvy. A Bard is always a viable choice. Lots of powerful buffs to help your crew.
#7 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 19:41:42	I'm also playing the cook during aventure downtime which is almost never with the current story. The bard idea is great except for the fact that I don't like playing a bard. Something with great buff AND survivability without being a bard would be nice. The Swords Master
#8 thaliost Apr 02, 2009 19:49:41	If you can foresee spellcasters as foes, I would recommend a debuffer, especially a dispeller. An elf abjurer / master specialist may be a good choice taking the Elven Spell Lore feat from PHB2. Even better if you take the Complete Champion wizard variant which gives you the inquisition domain power. EDIT: Also recommended is the Chain Spell feat or Chained Dispel Magic spell, with which you'll be able to suppress every single magic item on your foe, not only their ongoing spells, while you still get the loot afterwards. If it's more of brutal enemies, still abjurers will be very helpful but with a little build more focused on buffing rather than debuffing.
#9 dr_rocktopus Apr 02, 2009 19:58:50	Illumian Wizard 3/War Weaver 4 Uses either sanctum spell or improved power sigil krau for early entry. Please check with your GM regarding legality and legitimacy. Forgive me please if I fail to detail the precise mechanism for early entry, you'll find a handbook for war weaver in my signature. I'm a pretty big proponent of it, so if you are interested after reading up a little, we can talk either more complicated builds or reasoning. Played gently, the war weaver is a very "cohort" class, but it will almost certainly keep you guys upright unless you're doing something monstrously foolish. There's also a bard->war weaver build... let me dig it up. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1169576
#10 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 20:07:48	I'm not familiar with sanctum spell but improved krau sigil I know. I'm heading over to your handbook to check this war weaver. Don't bother with the bard though...i'm not fond of them really. The Swords Master
#11 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 23:01:25	As of now the best suggestion is Illumian Wizard 3/ War weaver 4 using improved krau sigil for early entry. Next level he'll gain his capstone ability at War Weaver 5. From there I can take it depending on where the campaign will go. I'm concerned for his survivability though. We don't really have a tank or BC to reduce the ennemis mobility and with the current encounter difficulty we're barely escaping with our live. Any tips/tricks/ideas on how to keep him/us alive would be appreciated. The Swords Master
#12 dr_rocktopus Apr 02, 2009 23:25:48	The classical rejoinder is invisibility as one of his quiescent weavings. Bear in mind, though, that it can be very difficult to deliver the touches necessary for well loved spells. That capstone is a really big deal. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:False_Life and\or Amulet of Tears (2300gp, MiC page 70): Another source of temporary hit points, this handy item stores 3 charges per day and grants temporary hit points lasting for 10 minutes based on the number of charges spent. For 1 charge, you gain 12 tmporary hit points, and for 3 charges grants 24 temporary hit points. Invisibility makes a great quiescent weaving, as does haste and fly. I think no wizard should live without solid fog on his list and prepared most of the time. I'm sort of exhausted right now, so, that's all I got at the moment.
#13 theswordsmaster Apr 02, 2009 23:44:53	Unfortunatly we won't gain another level so soon but i'll figure something out by then. False life and the amulet of tears will come in handy thats for sure. I'll have to dig into the handy link for some good buff spell and the likes. Thanks for all your help! The Swords Master
#14 dr_rocktopus Apr 02, 2009 23:55:20	Blessed be the handy links, and he who keeps them. Also, in the intro to my handbook, there's a link to valdrax's guidebook. It's pretty fantastic, far better right now than mine.
#15 unundindur Apr 03, 2009 0:26:33	In that setting, what about someone with a natural swimspeed and abiltiy to breath underwater? I can see how that can be a lifesaver... To addd more usefulness, make him a marshal, thus making all you other guys (who really matter) better. Put on him some heavy underwater armor (coral?) and he should be viable i guess. Always nice with extra spell penetration, extra inistiative, extra move actions and a bonus to hit ;)
#16 phaedrusxy Apr 03, 2009 1:06:07	Here is a psiwarrior/ardent self-buffing melee warrior who can take a hell of a beating and also take a hit for whomever he's bodyguarding occasionally. I am working on him for a PbP I'm joining. I intentionally toned it down a bit from what it could be (no Metamorphosis or Metamorphic Transfer, mainly). I'd suggest getting him Mithril Tesselated Armor, with the enhancement bonus reduced to +1. That's what I had planned to do... till the DM nixed that idea. :D It should wind up as +1 full plate that he can take on or off as a standard action, with only a -1 armor check penalty, for about 12,500 gp.
#17 karmme Apr 03, 2009 1:16:48	Marshall 2/Dragon Shaman 2/Bard 3 maybe?
#18 Balthanon Apr 03, 2009 9:11:02	With the number of melee fighters you have available, you might want to look at a crusader or warblade focused on White Raven. Though given that you have a lot of melee fighters without any Tome of Battle content, that might be off the table. Lets see, for any pirate crew you need the captain, a swordsman, a navigator, a liar/gunner, a cook, a doctor, an archaeologist, a shipwright, and a musician... (I've been watching a lot of One Piece lately. ) Of that list, there are actually a few that do jump out as actually being useful in a game-- if none of your characters have profession (sailor) maxed out or craft (shipbuilding) you may want to ensure your cohort picks those up. Profession (siege engineer) is also highly useful in a pirate campaign for utilizing ballista, though your cannoneer may have that. The main reason I even mention the skills though is that its surprising how few combat oriented classes actually have profession as a class skill. If you want to fill those key skills (and you really don't want to go without them), that may restrict which classes you can pick up.
#19 theswordsmaster Apr 03, 2009 10:04:08	@unundindur: Even if we're pirate and the campaign involve water hazards it is not the main focus. your idea is still god thought thanks. @PhaedrusXY: This build looks sweet...except for the fact we're not using psionic. It's a shame seeing as psionic isn't as overpowered as many would think. @Karmme: Care to elaborate on your build? @Balthanon: First, One Piece rule!! Second, we do actually have most of the anime archtype in our group using profession and class combination. Tome of Battle is available even if nobody used it yet. I haven't open my ToB in a while so any pointer toward a good white raven user will be appreciated. The Swords Master
#20 phoenix00 Apr 03, 2009 10:06:20	Your party desperately needs a wizard or a bard. If wizard I would focus on battlefield control, cut the amount of enemies down that your fighters have to fight at once. And with the fog and darkness spells you can really embellish the pirate theme. Or a bard, pirates always love bards and dragonfire inspiration. (Plus the bard can do limited battlefield control after he has the music up, Grease is still a bard spell after all.)
#21 theswordsmaster Apr 03, 2009 10:22:10	For now I'm set with an Illumian Wizard 3/War weaver 4. Using the tapestry to send buff to the party members and BC the rest of the time should be enough but it's still a wizard. He can't take a beating and he will with the current campaign. Our DM makes it hard on everyone, not impossible but really hard and just wizard may not cut it. The Swords Master
#22 karmme Apr 03, 2009 10:33:12	I just thought it would be a good combat boosting build that could use UMD to emulate arcane casting for your group and music for dispelling (unless that sucks). You're really melee heavy so a booster/buffer could work out really well. Could use paladin instead of bard to get more constant ae buffing.
#23 unundindur Apr 03, 2009 10:36:19	I just thought it would be a good combat boosting build that could use UMD to emulate arcane casting for your group and music for dispelling (unless that sucks). You're really melee heavy so a booster/buffer could work out really well. Could use paladin instead of bard to get more constant ae buffing. How do a paladin give more constant ae buffing than a bard?
#24 karmme Apr 03, 2009 11:13:29	Not more, just different, depending on what you're looking for.
#25 theswordsmaster Apr 03, 2009 11:18:18	Paladin won't get his spell until next level which is not around the corner and even then he'll only have 1st level spell and only bonus spell from his casting stat. Bard would be better in all way with his music and broader spellcasting ability. The Swords Master
#26 muertog Apr 03, 2009 18:53:47	You might also consider a druid, considering the water-based campaign. Another idea that might not have crossed your mind is a paladin. Water-based mounts would work VERY nicely in the water, and charge builds could manage to do significant damage. You also don't have to worry about terrain when charging (due to it all being water). I was tossing around a build that used the prestige paladin and prestige ranger classes from Unearthed Arcana in order to double-up on devoted tracker. Start with Cleric 6 of Yondalla (Animal+Other domain), and you have access to the paladin and ranger spell lists (which max out at level 4).
#27 theswordsmaster Apr 03, 2009 19:37:51	Paladin actually crossed my mind but with all the melee we already got it's not such a good idea. We need more of an arcane caster but with added survivability. Just to give an idea of our last encounter, we were level 8 with the warlock missing and had to fight around 25+ rogue/something and 2 iron golem. It wasn't pretty to see... What I need as a cohort is something to boost the rest of the party to help them stay on par with the ennemies. As a cheater of mystra I don't have this problem but not everyone in the group as the same experience as me to play effectively and I can't pull everyone weight by myself. So far the best idea was Illumian wizard 3/war weaver 4 using buff and BC to help the team. The Swords Master
#28 keithio Apr 03, 2009 19:53:06	I would for for Incantatrix, at level 8 persist some good buffs on the less effective players to bring them up to par.
#29 theswordsmaster Apr 03, 2009 20:06:49	I fail to see how you persist spell with Incantatrix at level 8. Persistant spell use a slot 6 level higher. The Swords Master
#30 sofawall Apr 03, 2009 20:23:57	You use massive spellcraft checks to persist for free.
#31 keithio Apr 03, 2009 20:41:26	Look at the Incantatrix's (As found in Player's Guide to Faerun) level three ability, and prostrate yourself in awe before it.
#32 dr_rocktopus Apr 03, 2009 21:35:08	Mind now, that the normal next step for a war weaver tends to be incantatrix, so these are not incompatible. Just decide what you want and when you need it.
#33 demonfey02 Apr 03, 2009 22:15:48	What about an artificer? That'd keep the ship afloat, and with the assortment of wands, potions, scrolls, and infusions, would make an excellent backup cannoneer, healer, or buffer. Another alternative idea is see if changelings are allowed to take warshaper. There was a changeling swashbuckler/warshaper/chameleon in one game that dealt incredible amounts of damage for a striker, healed within rounds, and could do some buffing.
#34 theswordsmaster Apr 04, 2009 0:38:21	I'm not alien to the Incantatrix abilities but how can you succed on the massive spellcraft check with a level 8 would have been more accurate. Mind that custom items are out though. There's already a changeling in the group so I prefer not do one myself. Artificer is nice but won't fit for plot reason...which is a shame as I love the class and it would be so nice for the ship. The Swords Master
#35 sofawall Apr 04, 2009 0:40:16	Item familiar is handy for skill checks.
#36 theswordsmaster Apr 04, 2009 19:55:07	It could be great at higher level I'll have to add it to my list of to do. I'm still concerned with the fact of having the wizard being 2 level under the rest of the group and having lost a caster level for war weaver. Any way to patch this? The Swords Master
#37 feloniousela Apr 05, 2009 17:59:37	Focused Conjurer/Malconvoker w/Rapid Summoning, Abrupt Jaunt etc. Could handle the battlefield control as well as giving some meat shields for flanking and saving the rest of the party from taking more hits.
#38 theswordsmaster Apr 06, 2009 0:37:21	I try to stay away from summon spells. It tend to crowd the battlefield and bring the game to a crawl. I got the character idea already but now I need some tips to keep him alive. He's 3 levels behind us in term of casting and it's a lot. The Swords Master
#39 sofawall Apr 06, 2009 19:36:43	Oh man, I love summons. Summon a greenbound lion, pounce, full attack... BAM! Dead ogre! Next turn, summon another! Pounce, pounce, dead, grappled. All three ogres neutralized in 2 turns. My party, having never seen a greenbound druid, stared in shock. I bragged to them "Let me take them on alone, don't help me." They didn't think a 5th level druid could do it. They were wrong.
#40 dr_rocktopus Apr 06, 2009 19:39:54	I... I dunno, I mean, the issue is that in a lot of these cases the answer is a non-answer. I don't really like that at all. If you make him small, say via gnome, you can then keep reduce person on him come next level. From then on, you have the most stylish of Pirate accessories, the shoulder gnome.