Caster Spellfire help - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Caster Spellfire help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
willpower
Nov 26, 2008 15:23:27 This is all in 3.5

I have a character in a game that has just gone up to 19th level. This character is insanely powerful... At least for this campaign he is. I built him using the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook from the website. So he was already really versital and powerful, having access to nearly every spell in the game due to Arcane Disciple (Luck). On top of this, my GM has been a bit of a Monty Haul in the power department. Particularly for me. I have been made Chosen of Mystra, and have access to Silverfire. In one of our last meetings I has given access to Spellfire. With the chosen of Mystra abilities and my own abilities to just miracle or wish up magic items (Wish is my 9th level Chosen of Mystra bonus ability) I now have a 30 Constitution, which is pretty good for Spellfire.

I have thought about going into the PRC Spellfire Channeller, but am leery because it does not give extra spells per level. He has said the campaign is definitely going epic, so I have more levels to work with, and I am pretty much done with my current PRC's, but still want to get more spell power, as I am virtually the only good spellcaster that can function in this world at high levels right now, as the main bad guy has put a stranglehold on the Weave limiting users of it to no more than 3rd level spells, and I am the only good guy that uses the Shadow Weave.

To add to this, my DM has told me that he isn't allowing people to take on new prestige classes after 20th level, so I still have a level to decide if I want to go into Spellfire Channeling or not, I just want to know what others think of this?

Should I just stick with the Base Spellfire? I can absorb 30 levels of spells and fire them if I so choose, or should I go into Spellfire channeling... After all with 30 Con, if I got the 5X spells absorbed I could do 150D6 damage to a 20ft radius when I get Maelstrom.
#2
Senevri
Nov 27, 2008 8:35:53 You don't get extra spells /level after 20th, anyway.

Your DM doesn't allow any epic prestige classes?
#3
willpower
Nov 28, 2008 15:08:43
You don't get extra spells /level after 20th, anyway.

Your DM doesn't allow any epic prestige classes?

No he doesn't allow Epic Prestige classes. Its sort of stupid. How does the epic spells work though? They aren't based on level past 20? I had just sort of assumed some sort of magical progression past 20... Though I've never played epic so I don't know.

If no spells are coming through though, then I guess nothing would stop me from taking spellfire channeler...
#4
CantripN
Nov 28, 2008 17:23:21 Epic Spellcasting is based off of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), once you get the feat (which needs 9th level spells, which you already have). There's no benefit to progressing spellcasting further (since there's no further spell progression past 20), so just pick a PrC with Class Features you like, or continue Incantatrix into EPIC, which improves it's abilities even more and gets you Bonus Epic Feats.
#5
phaedrusxy
Nov 28, 2008 19:42:42 n
Epic Spellcasting is based off of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), once you get the feat (which needs 9th level spells, which you already have). There's no benefit to progressing spellcasting further (since there's no further spell progression past 20), so just pick a PrC with Class Features you like, or continue Incantatrix into EPIC, which improves it's abilities even more and gets you Bonus Epic Feats.

Well... you'll have an easier time penetrating spell resistance if you continue to progress your spellcasting class, but other than that, there is no benefit. Alot of epic creatures have insane SR, though. In fact, many people start to rely more on buffs and less on spells that affect other creatures directly in epic due to this.
#6
Senevri
Nov 29, 2008 3:48:20 Wasn't that before Assay SR, though? Of course, Cosmic Descryers don't care, and if you want, it's possibly to get a CL around 34 by level 20, if you focus on it. I haven't found that good reasons to do so, though.
#7
amadithegreat
Nov 29, 2008 18:24:01
Wasn't that before Assay SR, though? Of course, Cosmic Descryers don't care, and if you want, it's possibly to get a CL around 34 by level 20, if you focus on it. I haven't found that good reasons to do so, though.

CL 34 is low. It is possible to get a CL infinite (Master spellthief + Any PrC that counts your CL in another class to it's CL, for example, or two such classes.). Even without that, there are some ways to get it ridiculously high, even without magic tattoos, consumption fields or anything like that.
#8
willpower
Dec 01, 2008 14:59:40 OK, this begs the question then, what are some of the secrets people know to increase CL? someone just said that having a 34 CL at level 2 is low... What are some tricks to get it higher? I have like a +2 or 4 to CL right now, and know a Feat or 2 to get it a bit higher, but higher than 34 by level 20.

BTW, for those that want to know, my character is Wiz:5/Shadow Adept:1/Shadowcrafter:8/Shadowcraft Mage:5 Due to specifics of the campaign he is has 1 level gestalt of Favored Soul (We weren't given a choice, and its free healing, though not much), is the Chosen of Mystra with Silverfire, and Spellfire. I don't have my book and was wondering if spell-like abilities are subject to SR?

Obviously one thing to get if I go up in Spellfire Channeler is Practiced Spellcaster so that at least 4 of his levels will still count for the purposes of Caster Level.
#9
phaedrusxy
Dec 01, 2008 15:46:25 Take Earth Spell. It boosts your CL whenever you Heighten something. Always use a Heightened Silent Image for your Shadow Illusion spells. Your CL will be through the roof.
#10
willpower
Dec 02, 2008 9:01:06 heh...

Thats my standard operating procedure... I haven't looked at Earthspell for some time though, how's it affect caster level?
#11
willpower
Dec 03, 2008 15:00:47 OK, I see that with Earthspell, your CL goes up for every level you heighten the spell, minus 1, so at 19th level, I can heighten a Silent Image to a 9th level spell (really 10th level) and get my caster level to 28, plus 4 for my shadow spell Penetration meaning 31. If I had spell Penetration, something I never used before since they only work for one school of spells, but will be very useful to this character since he casts almost exclusively Illusion spells, then I would add I think 4 more, bringing me up to 35th level caster.

This sounds good, though, I haven't seen the Epic monsters yet, would this be good enough? Is there other, or better ways to improve caster level? I know about Assay Resistance, and will use that when I can... I believe that pushes CL in this case to 45, though I have only seen the Assay Resistance spell in NWN2, so I don't know if the book form is any different.
#12
phaedrusxy
Dec 03, 2008 15:07:42 After looking over the epic monsters again, that's plenty good for most of them. The others have SR: You can't beat this. So you just have to use SR: NO spells on them. :D (For example, any pseudonatural creature with alot of hit dice and a low starting CR will have absolutely insane SR for its CR).
#13
reis
Dec 03, 2008 16:13:41 the monsters in the ELH are all pretty tame compared to optimized epic level pc's

as a dm in a high or epic level game where all the pc's are fairly well optimized, you pretty much need to consider the challenge ratings listed for most base monsters as a rough guide at best, a ECL 19 optimized shadowcraft mage with the chosen of mystra template could solo many of the CR 21-30 rated monsters in the ELH without any trouble

if your dm is serious about throwing challenging encounters at you expect to start running into stuff like a squad of 6-8 Half-Dragon Fire Giant Barbarian2/Fighter2/Warblade2/Frenzied Berserker5's with their 2 Half-Fiendish Red Wyrm friends by this level, i would rate that encounter about CR 20 or 21 for the game i currently DM...not sure what wizards rates it, probably in the high 20's?
#14
phaedrusxy
Dec 03, 2008 16:51:06
the monsters in the ELH are all pretty tame compared to optimized epic level pc's

I don't know that I agree with that. I'd say their CRs are all over the place. Some are weak for their CR, and some are quite tough. There are also crazy things, like the fact that a level 21 caster (CR 21) can summon crap with WAY higher CRs, like a Dream Larva (CR31).

I guess it would depend on what books are allowed, and what you consider optimized. Chosen of Mystra template? Please. :P Why don't we just all be Paragon Solars?
#15
willpower
Dec 04, 2008 9:13:27
I don't know that I agree with that. I'd say their CRs are all over the place. Some are weak for their CR, and some are quite tough. There are also crazy things, like the fact that a level 21 caster (CR 21) can summon crap with WAY higher CRs, like a Dream Larva (CR31).

I guess it would depend on what books are allowed, and what you consider optimized. Chosen of Mystra template? Please. :P Why don't we just all be Paragon Solars?

Is an official spell, or splat? It seems awesome, though I don't have... well any experience in epic stuff yet, and so it is a bit confusing to me. Does it cost 1,000 XP, 18,000 XP, or 19,000 XP? And it costs 450,000GP... Oh, I think I get it, to develop the spell costs the 18,000 XP and the GP, and to cast it costs the 1,000.

Speaking of which... I know Epic spells don't have a level added to them, I can push my Silent image up to level 10 for mimicking a spell of 9th level or lower, will this allow me to mimick an epic spell? If not, I can't use Epic level summoning as Conjuration is one of my prohibited schools.

Though I can still use conjurations via mimicking them, or Wishing them, so I don't know if that would help or not.
#16
phaedrusxy
Dec 04, 2008 14:01:32 That's a link to the SRD... so it's official. Epic spells are "considered 10th level for some purposes", but they don't really have levels, and so you can't mimic them with Shadow Illusion. You could probably develop an epic level version of Shades or something, but I don't know how that would work, as all Epic spells are pretty different from each other.
#17
reis
Dec 04, 2008 14:45:05 dream larva is one of the weaker epic monsters for it's CR though, I would not doubt that a optimized level 21 wizard based caster could solo one in many circumstances
#18
vglcat
Dec 04, 2008 14:53:20
This is all in 3.5

every time someone uses 3.5 a child is saved from cancer. every time someone uses 4.0 a puppy dies.

have a character in a game that has just gone up to 19th level. This character is insanely powerful... At least for this campaign he is. I built him using the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook from the website. So he was already really versital and powerful, having access to nearly every spell in the game due to Arcane Disciple

well i don't have much to add but always take reverse gravity.
(as you may no when your upside down then it's easier to frown (mostly because your about to be killed by god (wizard))):D every time i use a ( or a ) chuck norris kicks an *ss ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 willpower Nov 26, 2008 15:23:27	This is all in 3.5 I have a character in a game that has just gone up to 19th level. This character is insanely powerful... At least for this campaign he is. I built him using the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook from the website. So he was already really versital and powerful, having access to nearly every spell in the game due to Arcane Disciple (Luck). On top of this, my GM has been a bit of a Monty Haul in the power department. Particularly for me. I have been made Chosen of Mystra, and have access to Silverfire. In one of our last meetings I has given access to Spellfire. With the chosen of Mystra abilities and my own abilities to just miracle or wish up magic items (Wish is my 9th level Chosen of Mystra bonus ability) I now have a 30 Constitution, which is pretty good for Spellfire. I have thought about going into the PRC Spellfire Channeller, but am leery because it does not give extra spells per level. He has said the campaign is definitely going epic, so I have more levels to work with, and I am pretty much done with my current PRC's, but still want to get more spell power, as I am virtually the only good spellcaster that can function in this world at high levels right now, as the main bad guy has put a stranglehold on the Weave limiting users of it to no more than 3rd level spells, and I am the only good guy that uses the Shadow Weave. To add to this, my DM has told me that he isn't allowing people to take on new prestige classes after 20th level, so I still have a level to decide if I want to go into Spellfire Channeling or not, I just want to know what others think of this? Should I just stick with the Base Spellfire? I can absorb 30 levels of spells and fire them if I so choose, or should I go into Spellfire channeling... After all with 30 Con, if I got the 5X spells absorbed I could do 150D6 damage to a 20ft radius when I get Maelstrom.
#2 Senevri Nov 27, 2008 8:35:53	You don't get extra spells /level after 20th, anyway. Your DM doesn't allow any epic prestige classes?
#3 willpower Nov 28, 2008 15:08:43	You don't get extra spells /level after 20th, anyway. Your DM doesn't allow any epic prestige classes? No he doesn't allow Epic Prestige classes. Its sort of stupid. How does the epic spells work though? They aren't based on level past 20? I had just sort of assumed some sort of magical progression past 20... Though I've never played epic so I don't know. If no spells are coming through though, then I guess nothing would stop me from taking spellfire channeler...
#4 CantripN Nov 28, 2008 17:23:21	Epic Spellcasting is based off of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), once you get the feat (which needs 9th level spells, which you already have). There's no benefit to progressing spellcasting further (since there's no further spell progression past 20), so just pick a PrC with Class Features you like, or continue Incantatrix into EPIC, which improves it's abilities even more and gets you Bonus Epic Feats.
#5 phaedrusxy Nov 28, 2008 19:42:42	n Epic Spellcasting is based off of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), once you get the feat (which needs 9th level spells, which you already have). There's no benefit to progressing spellcasting further (since there's no further spell progression past 20), so just pick a PrC with Class Features you like, or continue Incantatrix into EPIC, which improves it's abilities even more and gets you Bonus Epic Feats. Well... you'll have an easier time penetrating spell resistance if you continue to progress your spellcasting class, but other than that, there is no benefit. Alot of epic creatures have insane SR, though. In fact, many people start to rely more on buffs and less on spells that affect other creatures directly in epic due to this.
#6 Senevri Nov 29, 2008 3:48:20	Wasn't that before Assay SR, though? Of course, Cosmic Descryers don't care, and if you want, it's possibly to get a CL around 34 by level 20, if you focus on it. I haven't found that good reasons to do so, though.
#7 amadithegreat Nov 29, 2008 18:24:01	Wasn't that before Assay SR, though? Of course, Cosmic Descryers don't care, and if you want, it's possibly to get a CL around 34 by level 20, if you focus on it. I haven't found that good reasons to do so, though. CL 34 is low. It is possible to get a CL infinite (Master spellthief + Any PrC that counts your CL in another class to it's CL, for example, or two such classes.). Even without that, there are some ways to get it ridiculously high, even without magic tattoos, consumption fields or anything like that.
#8 willpower Dec 01, 2008 14:59:40	OK, this begs the question then, what are some of the secrets people know to increase CL? someone just said that having a 34 CL at level 2 is low... What are some tricks to get it higher? I have like a +2 or 4 to CL right now, and know a Feat or 2 to get it a bit higher, but higher than 34 by level 20. BTW, for those that want to know, my character is Wiz:5/Shadow Adept:1/Shadowcrafter:8/Shadowcraft Mage:5 Due to specifics of the campaign he is has 1 level gestalt of Favored Soul (We weren't given a choice, and its free healing, though not much), is the Chosen of Mystra with Silverfire, and Spellfire. I don't have my book and was wondering if spell-like abilities are subject to SR? Obviously one thing to get if I go up in Spellfire Channeler is Practiced Spellcaster so that at least 4 of his levels will still count for the purposes of Caster Level.
#9 phaedrusxy Dec 01, 2008 15:46:25	Take Earth Spell. It boosts your CL whenever you Heighten something. Always use a Heightened Silent Image for your Shadow Illusion spells. Your CL will be through the roof.
#10 willpower Dec 02, 2008 9:01:06	heh... Thats my standard operating procedure... I haven't looked at Earthspell for some time though, how's it affect caster level?
#11 willpower Dec 03, 2008 15:00:47	OK, I see that with Earthspell, your CL goes up for every level you heighten the spell, minus 1, so at 19th level, I can heighten a Silent Image to a 9th level spell (really 10th level) and get my caster level to 28, plus 4 for my shadow spell Penetration meaning 31. If I had spell Penetration, something I never used before since they only work for one school of spells, but will be very useful to this character since he casts almost exclusively Illusion spells, then I would add I think 4 more, bringing me up to 35th level caster. This sounds good, though, I haven't seen the Epic monsters yet, would this be good enough? Is there other, or better ways to improve caster level? I know about Assay Resistance, and will use that when I can... I believe that pushes CL in this case to 45, though I have only seen the Assay Resistance spell in NWN2, so I don't know if the book form is any different.
#12 phaedrusxy Dec 03, 2008 15:07:42	After looking over the epic monsters again, that's plenty good for most of them. The others have SR: You can't beat this. So you just have to use SR: NO spells on them. :D (For example, any pseudonatural creature with alot of hit dice and a low starting CR will have absolutely insane SR for its CR).
#13 reis Dec 03, 2008 16:13:41	the monsters in the ELH are all pretty tame compared to optimized epic level pc's as a dm in a high or epic level game where all the pc's are fairly well optimized, you pretty much need to consider the challenge ratings listed for most base monsters as a rough guide at best, a ECL 19 optimized shadowcraft mage with the chosen of mystra template could solo many of the CR 21-30 rated monsters in the ELH without any trouble if your dm is serious about throwing challenging encounters at you expect to start running into stuff like a squad of 6-8 Half-Dragon Fire Giant Barbarian2/Fighter2/Warblade2/Frenzied Berserker5's with their 2 Half-Fiendish Red Wyrm friends by this level, i would rate that encounter about CR 20 or 21 for the game i currently DM...not sure what wizards rates it, probably in the high 20's?
#14 phaedrusxy Dec 03, 2008 16:51:06	the monsters in the ELH are all pretty tame compared to optimized epic level pc's I don't know that I agree with that. I'd say their CRs are all over the place. Some are weak for their CR, and some are quite tough. There are also crazy things, like the fact that a level 21 caster (CR 21) can summon crap with WAY higher CRs, like a Dream Larva (CR31). I guess it would depend on what books are allowed, and what you consider optimized. Chosen of Mystra template? Please. :P Why don't we just all be Paragon Solars?
#15 willpower Dec 04, 2008 9:13:27	I don't know that I agree with that. I'd say their CRs are all over the place. Some are weak for their CR, and some are quite tough. There are also crazy things, like the fact that a level 21 caster (CR 21) can summon crap with WAY higher CRs, like a Dream Larva (CR31). I guess it would depend on what books are allowed, and what you consider optimized. Chosen of Mystra template? Please. :P Why don't we just all be Paragon Solars? Is an official spell, or splat? It seems awesome, though I don't have... well any experience in epic stuff yet, and so it is a bit confusing to me. Does it cost 1,000 XP, 18,000 XP, or 19,000 XP? And it costs 450,000GP... Oh, I think I get it, to develop the spell costs the 18,000 XP and the GP, and to cast it costs the 1,000. Speaking of which... I know Epic spells don't have a level added to them, I can push my Silent image up to level 10 for mimicking a spell of 9th level or lower, will this allow me to mimick an epic spell? If not, I can't use Epic level summoning as Conjuration is one of my prohibited schools. Though I can still use conjurations via mimicking them, or Wishing them, so I don't know if that would help or not.
#16 phaedrusxy Dec 04, 2008 14:01:32	That's a link to the SRD... so it's official. Epic spells are "considered 10th level for some purposes", but they don't really have levels, and so you can't mimic them with Shadow Illusion. You could probably develop an epic level version of Shades or something, but I don't know how that would work, as all Epic spells are pretty different from each other.
#17 reis Dec 04, 2008 14:45:05	dream larva is one of the weaker epic monsters for it's CR though, I would not doubt that a optimized level 21 wizard based caster could solo one in many circumstances
#18 vglcat Dec 04, 2008 14:53:20	This is all in 3.5 every time someone uses 3.5 a child is saved from cancer. every time someone uses 4.0 a puppy dies. have a character in a game that has just gone up to 19th level. This character is insanely powerful... At least for this campaign he is. I built him using the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook from the website. So he was already really versital and powerful, having access to nearly every spell in the game due to Arcane Disciple well i don't have much to add but always take reverse gravity. (as you may no when your upside down then it's easier to frown (mostly because your about to be killed by god (wizard))):D every time i use a ( or a ) chuck norris kicks an *ss ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()