Casting Heal as a Wizard/Sorcerer - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Casting Heal as a Wizard/Sorcerer

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bergtann
Apr 24, 2008 17:35:37 This has almost certainly been pointed out elsewhere, but just in case I though I'd mention it:

I was browsing my books, and I noticed something I never noticed before, Arcane Disciple does not let you cast spells as if they were on your class list. It actually adds them to your class list.

This has a couple of interesting applications that I can see.

You can enter Combat Medic as an arcane caster, and have it full-progress your arcane casting. Over 5 levels, you pick up mobility, evasion, a better hit dice, and some other fluff.
And at level 5, you can convert other spells or slots to Heal spells. Which is good.

You can also use Arcane Disciple: Healing to qualify for the Spontaneous Healer feat. That gets you around the annoying 1/day that comes with Arcane Disciple. You get an additional wis modifier uses a day.

Still limited and MAD, but if you get Arcane Disciple, you got to have some wis bonus.

Probably more applications I don't know about.
#2
nanshork
Apr 24, 2008 17:48:24
This has almost certainly been pointed out elsewhere, but just in case I though I'd mention it:

I was browsing my books, and I noticed something I never noticed before, Arcane Disciple does not let you cast spells as if they were on your class list. It actually adds them to your class list.

This has a couple of interesting applications that I can see.

You can enter Combat Medic as an arcane caster, and have it full-progress your arcane casting. Over 5 levels, you pick up mobility, evasion, a better hit dice, and some other fluff.
And at level 5, you can convert other spells or slots to Heal spells. Which is good.

You can also use Arcane Disciple: Healing to qualify for the Spontaneous Healer feat. That gets you around the annoying 1/day that comes with Arcane Disciple. You get an additional wis modifier uses a day.

Still limited and MAD, but if you get Arcane Disciple, you got to have some wis bonus.

Probably more applications I don't know about.

Arcane Disciple:Healing going into Combat Medic is actually the preferred way to get into the Magelord PrC.

So yeah, this has been mentioned, but it's still a good thing to find out on your own.
#3
ninjarabbit
Apr 24, 2008 17:48:25 You can cast heal via limited wish since heal is a 5th level adept spell but that probably doesn't help you.
#4
the_shaman
Apr 24, 2008 17:49:48 I think that there was a feature in CChampion that gave sorcerers an access to a single domain, too. Anyway, healing another is possible with normal spells, but iirc the one I know - healing touch from BoED - is damaging to the caster, so you need a way to get self-healin or temporary HPs (False life, vampiric touch, etc.)
#5
Treantmonklvl20
Apr 24, 2008 17:57:53 You can use Arcane Disciple with a spontaneous casting class, then cross-class into Wizard, and then into Ultimate Magus.

Use the Ultimate Magus ability to switch over spells from your spontaneous casting spell list to your prepared casting spell list.

Now those spells are no longer based on Wis, nor are they limited to 1/day.

Works very nicely with a Focused Conjurer/Healing domain combo since those healing spells are all conjuration (and therefore can fill the specialization slots)
#6
logicninja
Apr 24, 2008 18:06:21
since those healing spells are all conjuration

Which is, by the way, freaking stupid.
#7
bergtann
Apr 24, 2008 18:07:15
You can use Arcane Disciple with a spontaneous casting class, then cross-class into Wizard, and then into Ultimate Magus.

Use the Ultimate Magus ability to switch over spells from your spontaneous casting spell list to your prepared casting spell list.

Now those spells are no longer based on Wis, nor are they limited to 1/day.

Works very nicely with a Focused Conjurer/Healing domain combo since those healing spells are all conjuration (and therefore can fill the specialization slots)

That is true, but you can only switch fairly low level spells over, and you still need the wisdom to get them in the first place, I think.

If you do the Arcane Disciple-> Spontaneous Healer feat combo, you get all the healing domains spells up to level 9 (wis-bonus +1) times per day. Provided you can afford the 19 wis at some point.
#8
Treantmonklvl20
Apr 24, 2008 18:26:11
Which is, by the way, freaking stupid.

I agree. Why they decided that healing effects were Conjuration effects is beyond me. If I made the rules - I probably would have made them necromancy school.

However, it is what it is. Once again Conjuration gets the win.;)

That is true, but you can only swich fairly low level spells over, and you still need the wisdom to get them in the first place, I think.

You are limited to 5th level spells (at the apex of UM) which means you can't switch over Heal itself.

Wisdom is the stat used for casting - however, you can get the spell on your spell list with a wisdom of 8 - you just can't cast it. (just like a wizard with an Int of 18 still has 9th level spells on his spell list - even if his casting stat isn't high enough to cast).

Once you switch them over to your wizard side - they have an Int based casting - so you can still dump wisdom.
#9
bergtann
Apr 24, 2008 18:33:59 You must have it in your spellbook, not just on your spell list. Can you put spells you don't have the stat to cast in your spellbook?
#10
nanshork
Apr 24, 2008 19:07:45
I agree. Why they decided that healing effects were Conjuration effects is beyond me. If I made the rules - I probably would have made them necromancy school.

However, it is what it is. Once again Conjuration gets the win.;)

They used to be Necromancy back in AD&D2E, back before all necromancy was declared as evil.
#11
ChristopherGroves
Apr 24, 2008 19:13:57 There are other awesome ways to expand a spell list. Good find though. Lots of neat things out there ...
#12
logicninja
Apr 24, 2008 19:17:02
They used to be Necromancy back in AD&D2E, back before all necromancy was declared as evil.

They used to be Necromancy in 3.0, too.

What gets me is that, okay, if they changed Inflict and Cure to conjuration because they conjure up energy like Orbs do, whatever. But [i]they left Inflict as Necromancy[i]. Somehow it's necromancy when you conjure negative energy but conjuration when you do the same thing with positive energy.
#13
songnsilence
Apr 25, 2008 6:20:30 Well, since you let positive energy do the actual healing (as opposed to fixing the body directly, say transmutation), i think conjuration is a ok choice. After all, its just conjuring/channeling of positive energy (from the positive energy plane?).
#14
ksbsnowowl
Apr 25, 2008 7:22:36
They used to be Necromancy in 3.0, too.

No, they didn't. The cure/inflict spells have had the same, stupid conjuration/necromancy dichotomy in all of 3rd edition.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bergtann Apr 24, 2008 17:35:37	This has almost certainly been pointed out elsewhere, but just in case I though I'd mention it: I was browsing my books, and I noticed something I never noticed before, Arcane Disciple does not let you cast spells as if they were on your class list. It actually adds them to your class list. This has a couple of interesting applications that I can see. You can enter Combat Medic as an arcane caster, and have it full-progress your arcane casting. Over 5 levels, you pick up mobility, evasion, a better hit dice, and some other fluff. And at level 5, you can convert other spells or slots to Heal spells. Which is good. You can also use Arcane Disciple: Healing to qualify for the Spontaneous Healer feat. That gets you around the annoying 1/day that comes with Arcane Disciple. You get an additional wis modifier uses a day. Still limited and MAD, but if you get Arcane Disciple, you got to have some wis bonus. Probably more applications I don't know about.
#2 nanshork Apr 24, 2008 17:48:24	This has almost certainly been pointed out elsewhere, but just in case I though I'd mention it: I was browsing my books, and I noticed something I never noticed before, Arcane Disciple does not let you cast spells as if they were on your class list. It actually adds them to your class list. This has a couple of interesting applications that I can see. You can enter Combat Medic as an arcane caster, and have it full-progress your arcane casting. Over 5 levels, you pick up mobility, evasion, a better hit dice, and some other fluff. And at level 5, you can convert other spells or slots to Heal spells. Which is good. You can also use Arcane Disciple: Healing to qualify for the Spontaneous Healer feat. That gets you around the annoying 1/day that comes with Arcane Disciple. You get an additional wis modifier uses a day. Still limited and MAD, but if you get Arcane Disciple, you got to have some wis bonus. Probably more applications I don't know about. Arcane Disciple:Healing going into Combat Medic is actually the preferred way to get into the Magelord PrC. So yeah, this has been mentioned, but it's still a good thing to find out on your own.
#3 ninjarabbit Apr 24, 2008 17:48:25	You can cast heal via limited wish since heal is a 5th level adept spell but that probably doesn't help you.
#4 the_shaman Apr 24, 2008 17:49:48	I think that there was a feature in CChampion that gave sorcerers an access to a single domain, too. Anyway, healing another is possible with normal spells, but iirc the one I know - healing touch from BoED - is damaging to the caster, so you need a way to get self-healin or temporary HPs (False life, vampiric touch, etc.)
#5 Treantmonklvl20 Apr 24, 2008 17:57:53	You can use Arcane Disciple with a spontaneous casting class, then cross-class into Wizard, and then into Ultimate Magus. Use the Ultimate Magus ability to switch over spells from your spontaneous casting spell list to your prepared casting spell list. Now those spells are no longer based on Wis, nor are they limited to 1/day. Works very nicely with a Focused Conjurer/Healing domain combo since those healing spells are all conjuration (and therefore can fill the specialization slots)
#6 logicninja Apr 24, 2008 18:06:21	since those healing spells are all conjuration Which is, by the way, freaking stupid.
#7 bergtann Apr 24, 2008 18:07:15	You can use Arcane Disciple with a spontaneous casting class, then cross-class into Wizard, and then into Ultimate Magus. Use the Ultimate Magus ability to switch over spells from your spontaneous casting spell list to your prepared casting spell list. Now those spells are no longer based on Wis, nor are they limited to 1/day. Works very nicely with a Focused Conjurer/Healing domain combo since those healing spells are all conjuration (and therefore can fill the specialization slots) That is true, but you can only switch fairly low level spells over, and you still need the wisdom to get them in the first place, I think. If you do the Arcane Disciple-> Spontaneous Healer feat combo, you get all the healing domains spells up to level 9 (wis-bonus +1) times per day. Provided you can afford the 19 wis at some point.
#8 Treantmonklvl20 Apr 24, 2008 18:26:11	Which is, by the way, freaking stupid. I agree. Why they decided that healing effects were Conjuration effects is beyond me. If I made the rules - I probably would have made them necromancy school. However, it is what it is. Once again Conjuration gets the win.;) That is true, but you can only swich fairly low level spells over, and you still need the wisdom to get them in the first place, I think. You are limited to 5th level spells (at the apex of UM) which means you can't switch over Heal itself. Wisdom is the stat used for casting - however, you can get the spell on your spell list with a wisdom of 8 - you just can't cast it. (just like a wizard with an Int of 18 still has 9th level spells on his spell list - even if his casting stat isn't high enough to cast). Once you switch them over to your wizard side - they have an Int based casting - so you can still dump wisdom.
#9 bergtann Apr 24, 2008 18:33:59	You must have it in your spellbook, not just on your spell list. Can you put spells you don't have the stat to cast in your spellbook?
#10 nanshork Apr 24, 2008 19:07:45	I agree. Why they decided that healing effects were Conjuration effects is beyond me. If I made the rules - I probably would have made them necromancy school. However, it is what it is. Once again Conjuration gets the win.;) They used to be Necromancy back in AD&D2E, back before all necromancy was declared as evil.
#11 ChristopherGroves Apr 24, 2008 19:13:57	There are other awesome ways to expand a spell list. Good find though. Lots of neat things out there ...
#12 logicninja Apr 24, 2008 19:17:02	They used to be Necromancy back in AD&D2E, back before all necromancy was declared as evil. They used to be Necromancy in 3.0, too. What gets me is that, okay, if they changed Inflict and Cure to conjuration because they conjure up energy like Orbs do, whatever. But [i]they left Inflict as Necromancy[i]. Somehow it's necromancy when you conjure negative energy but conjuration when you do the same thing with positive energy.
#13 songnsilence Apr 25, 2008 6:20:30	Well, since you let positive energy do the actual healing (as opposed to fixing the body directly, say transmutation), i think conjuration is a ok choice. After all, its just conjuring/channeling of positive energy (from the positive energy plane?).
#14 ksbsnowowl Apr 25, 2008 7:22:36	They used to be Necromancy in 3.0, too. No, they didn't. The cure/inflict spells have had the same, stupid conjuration/necromancy dichotomy in all of 3rd edition.