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Causing Madness

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
angellusmortus
Jan 10, 2009 22:03:13 Evening, ladies and gents. This is a slightly simpler question than most that pop up on here, as I already have a relatively steady outline for where I want to go with my character. However, I'm inexperienced with casters, as this char will be, and I'm not familiar with all sorts of feats or PrC's I'm sure I could miss out on with this character.

Basically, I'm playing a wizard who is CRAZY, completely off his rocker, and believes that the world would be a better place if everyone else was as insane as he is. Thus, he's going to be a specialist Enchanter. I know everyone 'round these parts hates enchanting, but thankfully, my DM is letting me use the class variant of Nightmare Spinner that lets your enchantments affect just about anything, so it's not totally gimp at high levels, plus Nightmare Spinner fits the flavor perfectly. However, Master Specialist, while pretty good for enchanting, isn't as perfect as it could be for the character.

I have read the Enchanter's Handbook listed in the "Handy Links" sticky and found it extremely useful, but since that was more about a more normal enchanter, I was wondering if there were any particular feats/items/poison /spells etc. that are more focused on people losing their minds, or at least control of themselves. All core books/"Complete" books, no dragon magazines, faerun/eberron stuff, or tome of battle heroes of horror etc. stuff. Thanks in advance!
#2
jameswilliamogle
Jan 10, 2009 22:20:27 I can't really think of any feats or items that aren't in the Enchanter's Handbooks; that one is pretty thorough already (what it might lack you can't use, anyways).

There's lots of sources for poison; you'll just have to look through the books for those - I don't know that there's a handbook for poison use.

Drow of the Underdark has a metamagic Poison Spell which allows you to apply a poison to a damaging spell (ie, the victem takes damage, then has to make the poison save). Its +0 level adjustment cost, and awesome. You use up the poison, though.

Other alternatives to normal caster: Master of Shrouds (Wis damaging Shadows at low level); Binders (focused on Haagenti, then Haures, then Halphax; since they bind things often considered part of the "Far Realm" it definitely fits the flavor).

Thats all I got... Sounds like a nice concept on an otherwise obscurely-referenced PrC, though; please write it up!
#3
viletta
Jan 10, 2009 22:46:14 Sounds to me like the only other thing you need to do is get a permanent Symbol of Insanity on a glove and flash that hand every time you feel like driving everyone in the area mad. In fact, Symbols of Insanity (permanent or otherwise) are epic for this guy. Cast it on a rock, summon something brutal, and hurl it down a busy street to drive an entire city mad.
#4
angellusmortus
Jan 10, 2009 22:56:05
Sounds to me like the only other thing you need to do is get a permanent Symbol of Insanity on a glove and flash that hand every time you feel like driving everyone in the area mad. In fact, Symbols of Insanity (permanent or otherwise) are epic for this guy. Cast it on a rock, summon something brutal, and hurl it down a busy street to drive an entire city mad.

I love you. How did I not think of that?!

Also, one other thing I thought of for those just reading: Any kind of tactical combos you could think of would be great. For example, using a divination spell to find out some persons most painful memories (watching his best friend get mauled, etc.) and then replaying them by way of illusions IN HIGH DEFINITION!!! lol. In other words, Sadists welcome.
#5
Grumman
Jan 10, 2009 23:39:44
Also, one other thing I thought of for those just reading: Any kind of tactical combos you could think of would be great. For example, using a divination spell to find out some persons most painful memories (watching his best friend get mauled, etc.) and then replaying them by way of illusions IN HIGH DEFINITION!!! lol. In other words, Sadists welcome.

Might I suggest the Crystalline Memories spell from Complete Mage? Combine it with the Swift Concentration skill trick, and you can physically rip the memories out of people as you go about your business.
#6
NiteCyper
Jan 11, 2009 5:29:19 I don't think in-character sadism gives an official bonus of any sort.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html
#7
angellusmortus
Jan 11, 2009 9:42:04 Eh, my DM is pretty cool about house ruling a small bonus or two for extreme creativity. After all, what's worse, an illusion of a big bear coming to kill you, or the illusion of the orc leader that burned your town and raped your girlfriend? Plus, it's more fun to play that way if you're going for in-character.;) In terms of literal rules though, I'm pretty sure you're right.
#8
atomickitkat
Jan 11, 2009 9:48:57 Allips are the ones whose babbling lowers Wis. Shadows drain Strength.

Manifest Desire and Manifest Nightmare from Tome of Horrors are perfect for what you're looking for(Finding their worst fears, and stuff). In fact, pretty much that whole book is a must-have for what you're doing. Lords of Madness helps as well. Oh yeah, from the former, Dread Witch allows you to use Fear attacks to make your stuff go even higher in DC, while exploiting theirs.
#9
thisisclever
Jan 11, 2009 20:00:52
I don't think in-character sadism gives an official bonus of any sort.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html

The BOVD disagrees!

Seriously though, I'm going to do this.
#10
angellusmortus
Jan 18, 2009 12:53:57 Tome of Horror does indeed look great, now it's just a matter of talking my DM into using it
It looks like I'm going to be going with roughly this:

Shea O'gorath, Human Male Wizard (Who knows the name? :P )

Focused Specialist, dropping Evocation, Necromancy and Abjuration (there's another wizard in my party keeping abjuration and Necromancy, we're prepared, see Treantmonk's argument for why Focused Specialist's are good)

1/Wizard Fey Power, Fey Heritage
2/Wizard
3/Wizard Spell Focus (Enchantment)
4) Master Specialist
5)Master Specialist 2
6)Master Specialist 3 Unsettling Enchantment+Greater Spell Focus from Master Specialist
7)Master Specialist 4
8)Nightmare Spinner 1
9)Nightmare Spinner 2 Leadership, begins getting "Cult of Madness", probably get a someone who can lower saves as Cohort...Hexblade?
10)Nightmare Spinner 3
11)Nightmare Spinner 4
12)Nightmare Spinner 5 Extend Spell
13)Mindbender 1
14)Master Specialist 5
15)Master Specialist 6 Heighten Spell
16)Master Specialist 7
17) Master Specialist 8
18) Master Specialist 9 Arcane Mastery
19)Master Specialist 10
20)Uumm...Wizard 4?

With the Nightmare Spinner Variant, Arcane Mastery for overcoming SR and Heighten Spell for frantic DC boosting when needed, he could potentially enchant a pretty wide variety of beasties and BBEG's. Leadership would just be flat fun as this guy...imagine little throngs of followers all trying to drive themselves mad in this guys image. Finally, unsettling enchantment and the Nightmare Spinner's ability to make creatures shaken would potentially give a tasty round of -4's to anything hit by the spells...Confusion AoE for complete destruction of an opposing party, anyone?

EDIT: Forgot to mention the classic 1 level Mindbender dip for 100' telepathy...combined with some form of x-ray vision, could be a nasty hidden dominator...

Between the Spell Focus's and Fey Power, the build gets +3 to enchantment DC's, has lots of enchantment spells to hurl around from Focused Specialist, and has a little cohort to help his spells out. Of course the Esoterica's from Master Specialist are great....(aside from the middle one, which is freaking useless for enchanters... )

That looks like about it! Any further suggestions would be great.
#11
atomickitkat
Jan 18, 2009 21:01:27 Make your cohort a Hexblade, possibly going into Blackguard. Alternately, have him pick up Leadership, and HIS cohort is a Blackguard. Together, they would make even a Monk cry(assuming we cap total saves at whatever a Monk of the same HD should get).:P
#12
angellusmortus
Jan 25, 2009 11:46:51 Think I'm going to go with the Hexblade cohort, that would be great overall...could also serve as a more up front guy than the my squishy lil wizard, though I certainly wouldn't fling him against any BBEG's alone...or would i?
#13
angellusmortus
Jan 25, 2009 11:48:44 Just thought of something else I could ask about! Our campaign is set in a country with three warring provinces, one kinda chaotic, one kinda neutral/divided, one very hard core lawful. My character is a through and through anarchist who will be largely opposing the lawful groups (he veiws chaos and law like most people veiw good and evil) Is there anything I can build in to be a better anti-law combatant? Rabble rouser? Riot starter?

EDIT: Think I might make this it's own thread...should I?
#14
atomickitkat
Jan 25, 2009 20:32:13
Think I'm going to go with the Hexblade cohort, that would be great overall...could also serve as a more up front guy than the my squishy lil wizard, though I certainly wouldn't fling him against any BBEG's alone...or would i?

Remember to give him the Dark Companion variant from PHB2. Even though it doesn't count for flanking, as long as it is "beside" the opponent, they take even more penalties on saves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 angellusmortus Jan 10, 2009 22:03:13	Evening, ladies and gents. This is a slightly simpler question than most that pop up on here, as I already have a relatively steady outline for where I want to go with my character. However, I'm inexperienced with casters, as this char will be, and I'm not familiar with all sorts of feats or PrC's I'm sure I could miss out on with this character. Basically, I'm playing a wizard who is CRAZY, completely off his rocker, and believes that the world would be a better place if everyone else was as insane as he is. Thus, he's going to be a specialist Enchanter. I know everyone 'round these parts hates enchanting, but thankfully, my DM is letting me use the class variant of Nightmare Spinner that lets your enchantments affect just about anything, so it's not totally gimp at high levels, plus Nightmare Spinner fits the flavor perfectly. However, Master Specialist, while pretty good for enchanting, isn't as perfect as it could be for the character. I have read the Enchanter's Handbook listed in the "Handy Links" sticky and found it extremely useful, but since that was more about a more normal enchanter, I was wondering if there were any particular feats/items/poison /spells etc. that are more focused on people losing their minds, or at least control of themselves. All core books/"Complete" books, no dragon magazines, faerun/eberron stuff, or tome of battle heroes of horror etc. stuff. Thanks in advance!
#2 jameswilliamogle Jan 10, 2009 22:20:27	I can't really think of any feats or items that aren't in the Enchanter's Handbooks; that one is pretty thorough already (what it might lack you can't use, anyways). There's lots of sources for poison; you'll just have to look through the books for those - I don't know that there's a handbook for poison use. Drow of the Underdark has a metamagic Poison Spell which allows you to apply a poison to a damaging spell (ie, the victem takes damage, then has to make the poison save). Its +0 level adjustment cost, and awesome. You use up the poison, though. Other alternatives to normal caster: Master of Shrouds (Wis damaging Shadows at low level); Binders (focused on Haagenti, then Haures, then Halphax; since they bind things often considered part of the "Far Realm" it definitely fits the flavor). Thats all I got... Sounds like a nice concept on an otherwise obscurely-referenced PrC, though; please write it up!
#3 viletta Jan 10, 2009 22:46:14	Sounds to me like the only other thing you need to do is get a permanent Symbol of Insanity on a glove and flash that hand every time you feel like driving everyone in the area mad. In fact, Symbols of Insanity (permanent or otherwise) are epic for this guy. Cast it on a rock, summon something brutal, and hurl it down a busy street to drive an entire city mad.
#4 angellusmortus Jan 10, 2009 22:56:05	Sounds to me like the only other thing you need to do is get a permanent Symbol of Insanity on a glove and flash that hand every time you feel like driving everyone in the area mad. In fact, Symbols of Insanity (permanent or otherwise) are epic for this guy. Cast it on a rock, summon something brutal, and hurl it down a busy street to drive an entire city mad. I love you. How did I not think of that?! Also, one other thing I thought of for those just reading: Any kind of tactical combos you could think of would be great. For example, using a divination spell to find out some persons most painful memories (watching his best friend get mauled, etc.) and then replaying them by way of illusions IN HIGH DEFINITION!!! lol. In other words, Sadists welcome.
#5 Grumman Jan 10, 2009 23:39:44	Also, one other thing I thought of for those just reading: Any kind of tactical combos you could think of would be great. For example, using a divination spell to find out some persons most painful memories (watching his best friend get mauled, etc.) and then replaying them by way of illusions IN HIGH DEFINITION!!! lol. In other words, Sadists welcome. Might I suggest the Crystalline Memories spell from Complete Mage? Combine it with the Swift Concentration skill trick, and you can physically rip the memories out of people as you go about your business.
#6 NiteCyper Jan 11, 2009 5:29:19	I don't think in-character sadism gives an official bonus of any sort. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html
#7 angellusmortus Jan 11, 2009 9:42:04	Eh, my DM is pretty cool about house ruling a small bonus or two for extreme creativity. After all, what's worse, an illusion of a big bear coming to kill you, or the illusion of the orc leader that burned your town and raped your girlfriend? Plus, it's more fun to play that way if you're going for in-character.;) In terms of literal rules though, I'm pretty sure you're right.
#8 atomickitkat Jan 11, 2009 9:48:57	Allips are the ones whose babbling lowers Wis. Shadows drain Strength. Manifest Desire and Manifest Nightmare from Tome of Horrors are perfect for what you're looking for(Finding their worst fears, and stuff). In fact, pretty much that whole book is a must-have for what you're doing. Lords of Madness helps as well. Oh yeah, from the former, Dread Witch allows you to use Fear attacks to make your stuff go even higher in DC, while exploiting theirs.
#9 thisisclever Jan 11, 2009 20:00:52	I don't think in-character sadism gives an official bonus of any sort. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html The BOVD disagrees! Seriously though, I'm going to do this.
#10 angellusmortus Jan 18, 2009 12:53:57	Tome of Horror does indeed look great, now it's just a matter of talking my DM into using it It looks like I'm going to be going with roughly this: Shea O'gorath, Human Male Wizard (Who knows the name? :P ) Focused Specialist, dropping Evocation, Necromancy and Abjuration (there's another wizard in my party keeping abjuration and Necromancy, we're prepared, see Treantmonk's argument for why Focused Specialist's are good) 1/Wizard Fey Power, Fey Heritage 2/Wizard 3/Wizard Spell Focus (Enchantment) 4) Master Specialist 5)Master Specialist 2 6)Master Specialist 3 Unsettling Enchantment+Greater Spell Focus from Master Specialist 7)Master Specialist 4 8)Nightmare Spinner 1 9)Nightmare Spinner 2 Leadership, begins getting "Cult of Madness", probably get a someone who can lower saves as Cohort...Hexblade? 10)Nightmare Spinner 3 11)Nightmare Spinner 4 12)Nightmare Spinner 5 Extend Spell 13)Mindbender 1 14)Master Specialist 5 15)Master Specialist 6 Heighten Spell 16)Master Specialist 7 17) Master Specialist 8 18) Master Specialist 9 Arcane Mastery 19)Master Specialist 10 20)Uumm...Wizard 4? With the Nightmare Spinner Variant, Arcane Mastery for overcoming SR and Heighten Spell for frantic DC boosting when needed, he could potentially enchant a pretty wide variety of beasties and BBEG's. Leadership would just be flat fun as this guy...imagine little throngs of followers all trying to drive themselves mad in this guys image. Finally, unsettling enchantment and the Nightmare Spinner's ability to make creatures shaken would potentially give a tasty round of -4's to anything hit by the spells...Confusion AoE for complete destruction of an opposing party, anyone? EDIT: Forgot to mention the classic 1 level Mindbender dip for 100' telepathy...combined with some form of x-ray vision, could be a nasty hidden dominator... Between the Spell Focus's and Fey Power, the build gets +3 to enchantment DC's, has lots of enchantment spells to hurl around from Focused Specialist, and has a little cohort to help his spells out. Of course the Esoterica's from Master Specialist are great....(aside from the middle one, which is freaking useless for enchanters... ) That looks like about it! Any further suggestions would be great.
#11 atomickitkat Jan 18, 2009 21:01:27	Make your cohort a Hexblade, possibly going into Blackguard. Alternately, have him pick up Leadership, and HIS cohort is a Blackguard. Together, they would make even a Monk cry(assuming we cap total saves at whatever a Monk of the same HD should get).:P
#12 angellusmortus Jan 25, 2009 11:46:51	Think I'm going to go with the Hexblade cohort, that would be great overall...could also serve as a more up front guy than the my squishy lil wizard, though I certainly wouldn't fling him against any BBEG's alone...or would i?
#13 angellusmortus Jan 25, 2009 11:48:44	Just thought of something else I could ask about! Our campaign is set in a country with three warring provinces, one kinda chaotic, one kinda neutral/divided, one very hard core lawful. My character is a through and through anarchist who will be largely opposing the lawful groups (he veiws chaos and law like most people veiw good and evil) Is there anything I can build in to be a better anti-law combatant? Rabble rouser? Riot starter? EDIT: Think I might make this it's own thread...should I?
#14 atomickitkat Jan 25, 2009 20:32:13	Think I'm going to go with the Hexblade cohort, that would be great overall...could also serve as a more up front guy than the my squishy lil wizard, though I certainly wouldn't fling him against any BBEG's alone...or would i? Remember to give him the Dark Companion variant from PHB2. Even though it doesn't count for flanking, as long as it is "beside" the opponent, they take even more penalties on saves.