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Centaur fighter

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sinister_dm
Mar 19, 2008 1:34:46 Hi all,

Playing in a Dragonlance campaign, we need a 11th level Tank (which is to be played as a second character, so roleplaying is not important). We have toyed with a Centaur or Minotaur fighter, but are not sure if this is the right way to go. The other party members include a Dwarven Cleric, a Kendar Rogue, an Elf Ranger (ranged style) and a human Dragonfire Adept.

We do not want something too cheesy (not 4 different prestige classes stacked) and since we usually keep to the core books, including the core books for Dragonlance, the best approach would most likely be a standard class with some non-core feats.

We have PHB II and all of the Dragonlance books.
#2
x-codes
Mar 19, 2008 1:46:50 Definitely go with Minotaur. I think you should go Sword and Board primarily and use your Gore attack for a devastating charge. Staying straight Fighter is never a good idea, after 4 levels of Fighter (at most) you should multiclass elsewhere. There are a lot of good options in various books, but I just don't know which would be best unless I get some more info from you.
#3
sinfire_titan
Mar 19, 2008 1:59:42
Hi all,

Playing in a Dragonlance campaign, we need a 11th level Tank (which is to be played as a second character, so roleplaying is not important). We have toyed with a Centaur or Minotaur fighter, but are not sure if this is the right way to go. The other party members include a Dwarven Cleric, a Kendar Rogue, an Elf Ranger (ranged style) and a human Dragonfire Adept.

We do not want something too cheesy (not 4 different prestige classes stacked) and since we usually keep to the core books, including the core books for Dragonlance, the best approach would most likely be a standard class with some non-core feats.

We have PHB II and all of the Dragonlance books.

Sadly, due to the lack of class features, one of the primary ways to make a potent Fighter is to PrC into as many as you can qualify for. Then again, most base classes lack class features worth anything (at least in Core) and will end up being the base for several PrCs. Of all of the Core classes, only Druid and Rogue have features worth taking to 20th. All of the others have PrCs that are a few steps above the regular version.
#4
sinister_dm
Mar 19, 2008 2:00:55
Definitely go with Minotaur. I think you should go Sword and Board primarily and use your Gore attack for a devastating charge. Staying straight Fighter is never a good idea, after 4 levels of Fighter (at most) you should multiclass elsewhere. There are a lot of good options in various books, but I just don't know which would be best unless I get some more info from you.

Why do you recommend sword and board over two-hander?

Normally, we run into trouble if we encounter a creature with damage reduction of a type, which we are not able to counter (like DR X/-). Thats why I'm thinking Power Attack and a two-hander.
#5
sinister_dm
Mar 19, 2008 2:04:52
Sadly, due to the lack of class features, one of the primary ways to make a potent Fighter is to PrC into as many as you can qualify for. Then again, most base classes lack class features worth anything (at least in Core) and will end up being the base for several PrCs. Of all of the Core classes, only Druid and Rogue have features worth taking to 20th. All of the others have PrCs that are a few steps above the regular version.

Okay. Will it help with some classes from Complete Warrior?
#6
atomickitkat
Mar 19, 2008 2:05:51
Sadly, due to the lack of class features, one of the primary ways to make a potent Fighter is to PrC into as many as you can qualify for. Then again, most base classes lack class features worth anything (at least in Core) and will end up being the base for several PrCs. Of all of the Core classes, only Druid ~~and Rogue~~ haves features worth taking to 20th. All of the others have PrCs that are a few steps above the regular version.

Fixed for you.

20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6

That's all they get for level 20.
#7
x-codes
Mar 19, 2008 2:33:01
Fixed for you.

That's all they get for level 20.

Nevermind the 8+int skill points? They're useful, you know.

Anyway, I'm thinking Sword and Board because you're going to be *the* front-line guy, so stopping the advance of enemies is going to be the #1 priority. That job tends to hurt. Also, you've got plenty of damage in your group. Another heavy-hitter will be somewhat redundant.

Because of your Intelligence penalty, you might not be able to qualify for Combat Expertise. In that case, look for other crippling status conditions like stunning (...Stunning Fist? Can't think of much else off the top of my head.) and nauseating (Three Mountains).
#8
ratpick
Mar 19, 2008 8:58:04 Centaurs are weird. Their upper bodies are obviously the size of Medium-sized humans, yet they're Large creatures and thus capable of wielding Large weapons. It still makes me wonder what the designers were thinking.

Other than that, I don't really see what's so special about the centaur. I mean, they really don't have any racial abilities to speak of, just Large size and physical ability bonuses. Granted, those can go a long way towards making a pretty good fighter, but still. One thing you could try to do would be to focus on your character's huge speed and make an extremely mobile character. Centaur Dervish, anyone?

Wasn't there a demon in Manual of the Planes that had a centaurian body and because of that counted as "mounted" and as having the Mounted Combat for the purposes of stuff like feats and combat? If you could get that house-ruled into your centaur I could see a very good Paladin/Cavalier build there. (With Charging Smite instead of Mount, of course) Charge your enemies with a heavy lance for massive damage.

As a DM I'd balance that house-rule with forcing centaurs to wield weapons as Medium-sized features.
#9
atomickitkat
Mar 19, 2008 9:47:35 Armanites are the Tanar'ri centaurs. They're also in Fiendish Codex 1.

Zelekhut Inevitables are the other centaur-like creatures who also count as Mounted.
#10
crimsondeath
Mar 19, 2008 14:00:10 Why not a Spiked Chain Tripper? If the Fighter doesn't pose much of a threat (compared to the casters) and can't do anything to impede the enemies, nothing stops them from just walking past him. A tripper build solves the latter problem.

If you go with this one, the Centaur might be a better choice, for the size bonus on the opposed Strength check and the stability bonus if his trip attempt fails and an opponent tries to trip him back.
#11
x-codes
Mar 19, 2008 14:27:40
Centaurs are weird. Their upper bodies are obviously the size of Medium-sized humans, yet they're Large creatures and thus capable of wielding Large weapons. It still makes me wonder what the designers were thinking.

Other than that, I don't really see what's so special about the centaur. I mean, they really don't have any racial abilities to speak of, just Large size and physical ability bonuses. Granted, those can go a long way towards making a pretty good fighter, but still. One thing you could try to do would be to focus on your character's huge speed and make an extremely mobile character. Centaur Dervish, anyone?

Wasn't there a demon in Manual of the Planes that had a centaurian body and because of that counted as "mounted" and as having the Mounted Combat for the purposes of stuff like feats and combat? If you could get that house-ruled into your centaur I could see a very good Paladin/Cavalier build there. (With Charging Smite instead of Mount, of course) Charge your enemies with a heavy lance for massive damage.

As a DM I'd balance that house-rule with forcing centaurs to wield weapons as Medium-sized features.

Who cares what size the weapon is? Beyond level 3 it's a mostly insubstantial bonus, and is completely negligible by level 10.

The reason why Centaurs suck is because they're large monstrous humanoids that have 5' reach and a bucket of RHD (granted, Monstrous Humanoid levels aren't all that bad, but RHD are generally inferior to class levels).
#12
braithwaite
Mar 19, 2008 15:46:51 It has its weaknesses (low HD especially) but adding half-dragon to centaur + 2 fighter or barbarian levels is legal in core and has some really sick attributes to it. Half dragon improves all your Racial HD, your con winds up so high that your HP don't suffer too much, and you get to choose between Weapon bite hoof hoof or claw claw bite hoof hoof with a stupidly high strength giving great attack bonuses. It can grapple almost anything, flies, and has a (lame) breath weapon. I'm not saying its the best option, but its a lot of fun.
#13
crimsondeath
Mar 19, 2008 16:47:27
It has its weaknesses (low HD especially) but adding half-dragon to centaur + 2 fighter or barbarian levels is legal in core and has some really sick attributes to it. Half dragon improves all your Racial HD, your con winds up so high that your HP don't suffer too much, and you get to choose between Weapon bite hoof hoof or claw claw bite hoof hoof with a stupidly high strength giving great attack bonuses. It can grapple almost anything, flies, and has a (lame) breath weapon. I'm not saying its the best option, but its a lot of fun.

It also starts out at ECL 9, with only 4HD.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sinister_dm Mar 19, 2008 1:34:46	Hi all, Playing in a Dragonlance campaign, we need a 11th level Tank (which is to be played as a second character, so roleplaying is not important). We have toyed with a Centaur or Minotaur fighter, but are not sure if this is the right way to go. The other party members include a Dwarven Cleric, a Kendar Rogue, an Elf Ranger (ranged style) and a human Dragonfire Adept. We do not want something too cheesy (not 4 different prestige classes stacked) and since we usually keep to the core books, including the core books for Dragonlance, the best approach would most likely be a standard class with some non-core feats. We have PHB II and all of the Dragonlance books.
#2 x-codes Mar 19, 2008 1:46:50	Definitely go with Minotaur. I think you should go Sword and Board primarily and use your Gore attack for a devastating charge. Staying straight Fighter is never a good idea, after 4 levels of Fighter (at most) you should multiclass elsewhere. There are a lot of good options in various books, but I just don't know which would be best unless I get some more info from you.
#3 sinfire_titan Mar 19, 2008 1:59:42	Hi all, Playing in a Dragonlance campaign, we need a 11th level Tank (which is to be played as a second character, so roleplaying is not important). We have toyed with a Centaur or Minotaur fighter, but are not sure if this is the right way to go. The other party members include a Dwarven Cleric, a Kendar Rogue, an Elf Ranger (ranged style) and a human Dragonfire Adept. We do not want something too cheesy (not 4 different prestige classes stacked) and since we usually keep to the core books, including the core books for Dragonlance, the best approach would most likely be a standard class with some non-core feats. We have PHB II and all of the Dragonlance books. Sadly, due to the lack of class features, one of the primary ways to make a potent Fighter is to PrC into as many as you can qualify for. Then again, most base classes lack class features worth anything (at least in Core) and will end up being the base for several PrCs. Of all of the Core classes, only Druid and Rogue have features worth taking to 20th. All of the others have PrCs that are a few steps above the regular version.
#4 sinister_dm Mar 19, 2008 2:00:55	Definitely go with Minotaur. I think you should go Sword and Board primarily and use your Gore attack for a devastating charge. Staying straight Fighter is never a good idea, after 4 levels of Fighter (at most) you should multiclass elsewhere. There are a lot of good options in various books, but I just don't know which would be best unless I get some more info from you. Why do you recommend sword and board over two-hander? Normally, we run into trouble if we encounter a creature with damage reduction of a type, which we are not able to counter (like DR X/-). Thats why I'm thinking Power Attack and a two-hander.
#5 sinister_dm Mar 19, 2008 2:04:52	Sadly, due to the lack of class features, one of the primary ways to make a potent Fighter is to PrC into as many as you can qualify for. Then again, most base classes lack class features worth anything (at least in Core) and will end up being the base for several PrCs. Of all of the Core classes, only Druid and Rogue have features worth taking to 20th. All of the others have PrCs that are a few steps above the regular version. Okay. Will it help with some classes from Complete Warrior?
#6 atomickitkat Mar 19, 2008 2:05:51	Sadly, due to the lack of class features, one of the primary ways to make a potent Fighter is to PrC into as many as you can qualify for. Then again, most base classes lack class features worth anything (at least in Core) and will end up being the base for several PrCs. Of all of the Core classes, only Druid ~~and Rogue~~ haves features worth taking to 20th. All of the others have PrCs that are a few steps above the regular version. Fixed for you. 20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 That's all they get for level 20.
#7 x-codes Mar 19, 2008 2:33:01	Fixed for you. That's all they get for level 20. Nevermind the 8+int skill points? They're useful, you know. Anyway, I'm thinking Sword and Board because you're going to be the front-line guy, so stopping the advance of enemies is going to be the #1 priority. That job tends to hurt. Also, you've got plenty of damage in your group. Another heavy-hitter will be somewhat redundant. Because of your Intelligence penalty, you might not be able to qualify for Combat Expertise. In that case, look for other crippling status conditions like stunning (...Stunning Fist? Can't think of much else off the top of my head.) and nauseating (Three Mountains).
#8 ratpick Mar 19, 2008 8:58:04	Centaurs are weird. Their upper bodies are obviously the size of Medium-sized humans, yet they're Large creatures and thus capable of wielding Large weapons. It still makes me wonder what the designers were thinking. Other than that, I don't really see what's so special about the centaur. I mean, they really don't have any racial abilities to speak of, just Large size and physical ability bonuses. Granted, those can go a long way towards making a pretty good fighter, but still. One thing you could try to do would be to focus on your character's huge speed and make an extremely mobile character. Centaur Dervish, anyone? Wasn't there a demon in Manual of the Planes that had a centaurian body and because of that counted as "mounted" and as having the Mounted Combat for the purposes of stuff like feats and combat? If you could get that house-ruled into your centaur I could see a very good Paladin/Cavalier build there. (With Charging Smite instead of Mount, of course) Charge your enemies with a heavy lance for massive damage. As a DM I'd balance that house-rule with forcing centaurs to wield weapons as Medium-sized features.
#9 atomickitkat Mar 19, 2008 9:47:35	Armanites are the Tanar'ri centaurs. They're also in Fiendish Codex 1. Zelekhut Inevitables are the other centaur-like creatures who also count as Mounted.
#10 crimsondeath Mar 19, 2008 14:00:10	Why not a Spiked Chain Tripper? If the Fighter doesn't pose much of a threat (compared to the casters) and can't do anything to impede the enemies, nothing stops them from just walking past him. A tripper build solves the latter problem. If you go with this one, the Centaur might be a better choice, for the size bonus on the opposed Strength check and the stability bonus if his trip attempt fails and an opponent tries to trip him back.
#11 x-codes Mar 19, 2008 14:27:40	Centaurs are weird. Their upper bodies are obviously the size of Medium-sized humans, yet they're Large creatures and thus capable of wielding Large weapons. It still makes me wonder what the designers were thinking. Other than that, I don't really see what's so special about the centaur. I mean, they really don't have any racial abilities to speak of, just Large size and physical ability bonuses. Granted, those can go a long way towards making a pretty good fighter, but still. One thing you could try to do would be to focus on your character's huge speed and make an extremely mobile character. Centaur Dervish, anyone? Wasn't there a demon in Manual of the Planes that had a centaurian body and because of that counted as "mounted" and as having the Mounted Combat for the purposes of stuff like feats and combat? If you could get that house-ruled into your centaur I could see a very good Paladin/Cavalier build there. (With Charging Smite instead of Mount, of course) Charge your enemies with a heavy lance for massive damage. As a DM I'd balance that house-rule with forcing centaurs to wield weapons as Medium-sized features. Who cares what size the weapon is? Beyond level 3 it's a mostly insubstantial bonus, and is completely negligible by level 10. The reason why Centaurs suck is because they're large monstrous humanoids that have 5' reach and a bucket of RHD (granted, Monstrous Humanoid levels aren't all that bad, but RHD are generally inferior to class levels).
#12 braithwaite Mar 19, 2008 15:46:51	It has its weaknesses (low HD especially) but adding half-dragon to centaur + 2 fighter or barbarian levels is legal in core and has some really sick attributes to it. Half dragon improves all your Racial HD, your con winds up so high that your HP don't suffer too much, and you get to choose between Weapon bite hoof hoof or claw claw bite hoof hoof with a stupidly high strength giving great attack bonuses. It can grapple almost anything, flies, and has a (lame) breath weapon. I'm not saying its the best option, but its a lot of fun.
#13 crimsondeath Mar 19, 2008 16:47:27	It has its weaknesses (low HD especially) but adding half-dragon to centaur + 2 fighter or barbarian levels is legal in core and has some really sick attributes to it. Half dragon improves all your Racial HD, your con winds up so high that your HP don't suffer too much, and you get to choose between Weapon bite hoof hoof or claw claw bite hoof hoof with a stupidly high strength giving great attack bonuses. It can grapple almost anything, flies, and has a (lame) breath weapon. I'm not saying its the best option, but its a lot of fun. It also starts out at ECL 9, with only 4HD.