My idea for the character is to have him act somewhat Paladin-like (but not Lawful Stupid or Stupid Good), so no Evil or Chaotic stuff. LN/LG/NG is what I'm going for, though I don't want to take many Paladin levels (three tops, I think, possibly only two with a Cleric level for Turn Undead). I don't think I'd have my Dex higher than 12 unless necessary or unless I roll high, Cha will be priority, then Con and Str. Wis will probably be my dump stat.
Honestly, this is the first time I have considered taking *any* Paladin levels, or use Crusader from Tome of Battle. At first I thought of having him try to only defeat monsters, not kill them, but that might not be feasible, especially if he gets boosted a lot. Against undead, constructs and outsiders it doesn't matter though, since constructs and undead aren't alive and outsiders just get whisked back to their plane. I have yet to decide on that. Due to the high Cha I thought of making use of Iaijutsu from Oriental Adventures. I could use Sorcerer levels and later Abjurant Champion, perhaps. Also I saw a PrC with a nice Cha-based class ability for the 2nd level:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/200...
Anyone got suggestions? Build ideas? Got feats in mind that might help?
if you are free to be a paladin without armor and weapons i will think that this is the best idea:
1lvl as battle dancer: you get unarmed strike and cha modifer to AC ( like the wis in monk)
than you can take some paladin levels...
when you have +4 to bab you get Fof for three levels which help the unarmed strike and give you con to AC
feat:
you get sacred vow and vow of poverty: thats mean that you cant use weapon, armor or magical things but you get great buffs to anything: abilitys, AC, and so on...
if you want to be from the kind that don't hurt other take: vow of peace and vow of nonviolent which give you great buff to AC if you don't kill others or harm them....
well that my idea... but it's a diffrent kind of paladin...
good luck
Palladin of Freedom 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Duelist 10/Monk 5
Specific Feats to take:
Able Learning-for cross class skills
Ascetic Mage- add charisma to AC twice.
The last 3 levels in monk aren't neccessary, but with Mettle and Evasion + Charisma to saves.... you'll be a tank alright. Common ask me to make a save, I dare ya.
....naw, Legendary Leader sucks.
Hm. Paladin 4, Crusader 2, Warpriest 1, Divine Crusader 1,
Warpriest nets you War domain, you have full BAB up to that point, Warpriest nets you War domain and thus weapon focus. At level 11 you can pick Holy Warrior.
Legendary leader is insanely situational, though. But, Pal 4/Cru 2/Warpriest 1/Divc1/RKV 10 is rock solid, I think.
This got me thinking of something else, though. Namely,
Paladin 4/Cru 2/X 1/Divine Crusader 1/Warpriest 1/Ordained Champion 3/Contemplative 1 of Heironeus, would have... domains of Glory, War, Law and Good, thus having actually something of a spell list. They would also get maximum utility out of battle blessing, and decent BAB. and qualify for a reflavored Vindicator - obviously no Wee Jas with Ordained Champion. :/
Regarding Charisma... a Battle-dancing Bard/Sublime Chord could really cheese out thunderlance...
Hm. Snowcasting (draconic power yay +1 CL, DC all spells), Energy Sub Electricity, Born of Three Thunders, Sonic Might, for the usual 12d6 + Charisma. You use Cha to hit, too
Heighten, Snowcasting, Energy Sub Electricity, Born of Three Thunders, 5 levels of Lyric Thaum... naw, won't work. Born of Three thunders only works on spell that deal hp damage. While Thunderlance may be considered such, it's effect is a spearlike beam of force. So, no lyric thaum. Hm.
We could go with Admixture and Empower for 9d6 + Cha, though. You can also further boost it with Sonic Weapon spell, to which you CAN add 9d6 damage, giving us a lousy AB, and a 19d6 weapon with 20ft reach. While we use Cha for hit and damage. Not touch attacks, though.
Digressing so much.
Seriously, have you seen the new smite evil, it is sexytime.
Pathfinder sword and board TWF Paladin 20
Seriously, have you seen the new smite evil, it is sexytime.
Ooh, yeah. double damage vs. things paladins should kill and in effect 'til the opponent is dead.
Ackshawly, a Paladin dip for the thunderlancer means 2x Charisma to hit
Just vs. a single opponent, though... Is there an Extra Smiting feat?
Pathfinder sword and board TWF Paladin 20
Seriously, have you seen the new smite evil, it is sexytime.
Ooh, yeah. double damage vs. things paladins should kill and in effect 'til the opponent is dead.
Ackshawly, a Paladin dip for the thunderlancer means 2x Charisma to hit
Just vs. a single opponent, though... Is there an Extra Smiting feat?
Yeah and automatically bypassing all DR......oh hai mr great wyrm red dragon, you like my non-magical longsword, mwahahaha. Plus an AC boost against that opponent to boot. Alas there is no Extra Smite in Pathfinder...yet.
However, Pathfinder Paladin + Bard + Slippers of Battle Dancing + Snowflake Wardance = 3x Charisma to attack rolls.
Our group only uses WotC books sadly, so Pathfinder is out. We're not big on 3rd-party stuff, so none of us have any 3rd-party material.
I will have to check my Dragon Compendium for Battle Dancer, but it sounds good. I don't think I would use Exalted feats though, unless perhaps my DM will allow me to acquire the Saint template later on. This is for a possible replacement of a current character of mine, so I don't know at what level I will get to use it, but I am hoping for at least level 6+ so I can start with Leadership.
I've thought about taking the Unarmed Swordsage variant and go monk style, so that could work with Fist of the Forest if I qualify that way. I'd prefer to fight with a weapon though, just feels more right, but I can change that up.
I'm sorry, where is Thunderlance from? I thought I heard of it before, but I am not quite sure what it is supposed to do. If you could be so kind, it'd be preferable to hear where anything further that is mentioned is from (what book), since I got pretty much every 3.5 non-third-party book that's out there.
There's the blackguard option, too, for alignment-challenged.
I am thinking of perhaps trying the holy gish route, like Paladin/Sorcerer/Abjurant Champion or something of the sort, with some PrCs on the side that add to Cha bonuses on stuff like AC, saves and to-hit. Iaijutsu Focus could be handy in here too, since it is a Cha-based skill and could add quite a bit of damage at the start of a battle. Of course I'd have to put Quick Draw as one of my feats then so I can utilize it better.
Any suggestions for starter race? I would prefer LA+0, though I am sure my DM won't mind an LA+1 race either. LA+2 and +3 are a little too high, and above that I never even consider. I could use Human since it is handy with the bonus feat and the skill points could be handy if I plan on using many PrCs and Iaijutsu Focus (I would go for Iaijutsu Master in that case, since his 5th level ability adds Cha bonus to every Iaijutsu-gained damage die).
I think a holy gish would work rather well for me here; are there any PrCs with full BAB that have their own arcane spellcasting, rather than advancing another class'? I'm thinking I could use that to venture into Abjurant Champion, so a PrC with that that I could get into at a low level (taking it as my 5th level or earlier) would be great.
Bard 2/Warblade 3/JPM 2/Suel Arcanamach 1/JPM +3/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5 is something that I almost like, but is probably overly complicated.
I think...
Suel Arcanamach is medium BAB, so a Paladin 2/Suel 4 would qualify --- but Suel is harder to get into than AbChamp. Frankly, I think... Yeah, Duskblade.
Duskblade 4/Crusader 1/AbChamp2/JPM 1/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Abchamp +3/JPM +4.
BAB 17, 9th arcane spells. probably in some amount of armor.
Abchamp asap is a good idea, actually. Getting better AC and swift abjurations is neat.
Hm.
How about Bard 4/Paladin 2/Abchamp 4/Subchord 1/Abchamp +1? One level slower than designed, but gets to rebuild casting on the levels it gets more important at.
Only reserved feat is combat casting, really. You'd get Haste, Thunderlance, sonic weapon, improvisation etc.
Actually, I'd probably recommend going 3 levels of abchamp and dipping to, Eldritch Knight if nothing else comes to mind, so that you get that no-casting level out of the way, and thus get full Subchord casting and a total BAB of +18. (well, Subchord's 2nd level is worth it too, though. )
Frankly, though, the paladin is inferior to the Bo9s option, in my opinion.
My very favourite set would probably be... no, the most optimal set, although at the cost of slower maturation, would be Bard 4/Crusader 1/AbChamp 3/Jade Phoenix 1/Swiftblade 1/Subchord 2/Abchamp +2/JPM +4/Swiftblade +2.
Not a single dead or lost level in the whole 10 level rebuild, BAB 18, all of abjurant champion, empowering strike, some stances and maneuvers, blurred alacrity and sudden casting - IE, always hasted. Only question is, is crusader in this instance superior to having access to better schools? Some Tiger Claw, or at least Avalanche of Blades, would be sweet.
Improvisation is a 1st level bard spell, that isn't broken or anything, just very very good, if you give it a bit of love and care. It's so good it's one of the spells I'd consider worth innate spell.
A quickened thesis improvisation at full CL (22), would grant you +11 bonus to four attacks, for an example. Of course, you'd need rapid metamagic for that.
Basically, it gives you half the benefits of Moment of Prescience, four times per casting.
Honestly, I'm not that enamored with Swiftblade, but it is a good class, basically, and many like it.
If you really want to cheese Charisma, and are willing to rebuild, take a look at Arcane Duelist:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/200...
basically, the first three are good - CHA to AC, and basically take a penalty of 2.5 average on damage to get +5 to hit. Then, think power attack
But, just some variant of the rebuild build mentioned above, gets to use Cha for attack and damage with Thunderlance, four hits / round, good chance of hitting and so on and so forth.
Dunno why I kept forgetting Bards. Bards are awesome. Even this one gets +2 attack and damage from inspire courage, if he takes a standard action and casts that one spell at the same time.
Warblade 1 BAB+1,
Feat: Iron Will
Warblade 2 BAB+2
Warblade 3 BAB+3
Feat: Combat Casting
Warblade 4 BAB+4
Warblade 5 BAB+5
Suel Arcanamach BAB+5
Feat: Dodge
Abjurant Champion 1 BAB+6
Spellsword 1 BAB+6
Jade Phoenix Mage 1 BAB+7
Feat: Mobility
Arcane Duelist 1 BAB+7
Arcane Duelist 2 BAB+8
Jade Phoenix Mage 2 BAB+9
Feat:
Jade Phoenix Mage 3 BAB+10
Jade Phoenix Mage 4 BAB+11
Jade Phoenix Mage 5 BAB+12
Feat:
Abjurant Champion 2 BAB+13
Combat Casting may be awkwardly placed, but hey, it's requirements say nothing about spellcasting! (In fact, it has no requirements at all.) This build will probably be hard to work with until Jade Phoenix Mage comes into it. I didn't want to put Bard in there because I think it doesn't mesh as well with casting-advancing PrCs. Sorcerer could work though, so then I can through out Suel Arcanamach and exchange Iron Will for Dodge and Dodge for Leadership.
I made a cha based fighter build for a campaign that starts tonight, that should be playable from lvl 4 onwards. I'll post it later (need to finetune it now befor we start, and convince my DM that magic in the blood on a lesser aasimar half fey isn't broken
)Required feats: Power attack, cleave, improved sunder, dodge, mobility, versitile spell caster, heighten spell, ascetic mage and snowflake wardancer. Dodge and mobility can be had as monk bonus feats.
Charisma to: saves twice or thrice vs. spells and spell like abilities, AC thrice, and to hit (with snowflake wardancer active).
Edit: As a bonus if you have the feats, take a level of exotic weapon master with the bastard sword to get uncanny blow. Use dextrous attack simultaneously with power attack for free bonus damage. With a human with two flaws you could do this and have leap attack by 18 granting BAB (+17 by level 20) x3 to damage. You need to use a 1-handed slashing weapon for snowflake wardancer to work so the EWM is the only way I can think of getting th 2:1 power attack ratio with that feat.
Suel arcanamach has a prereq of BaB +6, so u need 1 more level.
I made a cha based fighter build for a campaign that starts tonight, that should be playable from lvl 4 onwards. I'll post it later (need to finetune it now befor we start, and convince my DM that magic in the blood on a lesser aasimar half fey isn't broken
Posted my try here