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#1 moskatyak Mar 31, 2008 10:55:11

Hi All !! I'm new to the boards and 3.5 (haven't played D&D since early 2.0) It seems your best bet is a party full of Druids; but, Fighters are fun! And, from what I've seen researching, you apparently want a Chain-gunner or a Frenzied Berserker (which I haven't much looked at because the chain appealed to me before I even looked at the boards). Also, it seems the only character worthy of play straight out of the book is Druid20, everything else has to be cross-class bastardized and/or Prc Optimized to be worth a dam . So, with that in mind and the help of some very useful handbooks and useful links (Kudos to all for your Valiant efforts!!!) and hours of agonizing analizing (from which I, apparently, somehow, derive some sort of pleasure) I've come up with this: Way of the Chain Human: Str16 Dex15 Con16 Int14 Wis12 Chr9 Books: PH,PH2,Complete: Adventurer,Arcane,Divine,Warrior; Races of: Wild, Stone,Destiny; Psionics: Complete,Expanded The campaign is supposed to go on up into Epic to the extent that it affects your advice. Prc's will slowly become available as the campaign progresses (who knows what or when, lost knowledge to be recovered) Mnk2/Clr1/Rngr2/Ftr12/Knight3 BaB +18 Fort +19 Dex +13 Will +12 (+Chr Resistance at 20th) 1 Rng1 EWP:Chain, Deft Opportunist, Tracking, Wild Empathy, Enemy(Unded) 2 Mnk1 Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist 3 Mnk2 Combat Reflexes, Evasion (in lt.armor), Able Learner 4 Clr1 Weapon Focus, Luck Re-Roll, 3 Spells (Cure Lt.), Use Cleric Items 5 Ftr1 Combat Expertise 6 Rng2 2WF, Imp. Trip 7 Ftr2 Double Hit 8 Knt1 Power Attack 9 Ftr3 ( ) 10 " 4 ( ) 11 " 5 12 " 6 ( ), ( ) 13 " 7 14 " 8 Robilar's Gambit 15 " 9 ( ) 16 " 10 ( ) 17 " 11 18 " 12 ( ), ( ) 19 Knt2 20 Knt3 Resistance (+Chr to Saves) This ordering seemed best to me: Start w/ Ranger because it's got the most skill points. Monk 2 asap for Combat Reflexes. Able Learner has to come in here at 3rd or lose utility from it: questionable whether it's worth the loss of a chain-feat for improved skill selection;but, it's mostly so I can max out Tumble and Diplomacy. Good Flavor. Yummy! Cleric 1: Way of the Chain (non-Deity Specific Way) Domains:Luck,War Worth it? Especially since I probably won't get the Specialization Feat Set. The Shock Trooper / Leap Attack Set is obviously much much better. (I wanted to start w/ Cleric but 2 skill pts. and I wasn't going to get chain prof. for free as I'd first hoped) but; Luck, Cure Lt.s for Lay on Hands Flavor, Wands of Cure Crit., Wands of Buffing, Special made Heal Item(50 charges)(with Status and Heal, I suppose you could make a wondrous Item that auto-healed you if you dropped below 25%HP, usable by anyone). Trip Next: Everybody raved about Trip, so I brought it on-line next at 6th. It could be usable at 4th by delaying Cleric and moving Combat Expertise to first; but Deft Opportunist seemed to provide better early utility than CE and Healing items are probably better than trip, since I hope to use tumble to make reach work more. The whole 2WF/Monk Unarmed Strike/Power Attack/ debate. What's the official WotC ruling? Personally, somewhere in the DMG, PH, or WotC 3.5 FAQ (I know it was just before I got on these boards), I read something to the effect: that in case of rules conflict, class features trump everything else, they are exceptions to the standard rules. The Monk description explicitly states: " ... no such thing as an off-hand attack for a Monk striking unarmed ... apply full Strength Bonus on damage rolls for all unarmed strikes." Also, you can wield a Martial Weapon in the off hand (at extra penalty) and it gets full Str Bonus (Right?). Otherwise the Ranger levels and Double Hit are use-less and will free up 2 Ftr Feats for other Chain Synergy. What else is there that I might replace ranger with or use for further cross pollenation. Double Hit: Should I have gotten this at 6th? I'm assuming it's a Ftr Feat (I don't have the books) and not more important than Imp. Trip. Knight1/Power Attack: When would be most optimal to take this? I got the impression that PA isn't really useful until the higher levels, and there's no point in slowing up other feats except to front-load the save bonus. Knt2 is even less of a save bonus, Knt3 doesn't do my particular character any good until I can get the Charisma up (the die roll option I was given seemed highly probable to produce a better result than the stat buy.) Knt3 also causes XP conflict w/ Clr1, so in actual play Clr2 will have to come first (pays for itself in 4.5-ish levels by not taking an XP penalty) and also get an extra +1 to Fort and Will Totals. Robilar's Gambit: 14th is the soonest I can get this with the Mnk&Clr Dips. I don't know if re-training will be allowed (nor do I know how it's supposed to work); but if so, I could get Karmic Strike at 9th (and Dodge) by delaying Knight1 or even earlier if I lose Ranger or it's more important than trip? Next (?) AoO Qualifiers: DefensiveSweep,DefensiveThrow Will I need these this early in the game? Or, will Reach,Trip,and Karmic/Gambit provide me more opportunities than I'm likely to be able to take advantage of? At least until Epic w/ Unlimited AoO: and do I pre-load them at 18 or tack them on at 23 & 25. How do you avoid the Epic Infinite AoO Loop from the Robilar Twins? Defensive Set: (not sure I've found all the pre-reqs.) Dodge,Mobility,SideStep,ElusiveTarget,HoldtheLine Do I need to set up these defenses at 9-12 or will my item healing allow me to take Shock Trooper first? ShockTrooper Set: (pre-reqs.?) (LeapAttack,ShockTrooper,KnockBack,BattleJump,RampagingBullRush, Else? Should I leave these out and concentrate on AoO and Pacification for Epic? Monkey Hands: Pretty much universilly poo- poo'd. But: A=(PI)r^2 Circle Radius 10 20 40 80 " Diameter 20 40 80 160 Circle Area 314 1256 5026 20106 Area Increase x4 x4 x4 I can understand that 4 times the area of pacification isn't practical with limited #'s of AoO and the need for superior chain synergy. But then, tumbling ought to be able to keep you beyond a 5' step & full attack (WotC D&D3.5 FAQ/Sage's Advice Re-iteration: said that only paying double move cost for the squares that you actually tumble through was a perfectly acceptable interpretation of the skill; not exactly RAW, but officially acceptable), if your willing to for-go you own full attack. What's the max. distance on a leap attack (reasonable?/optimized?) to stay out of range of? Imp. Disarm- worth it (?), espcially w/ Stunning Fist to stop attack? Effective +12 Disarm if you follow-up a trip w/ DeftOpp. (+8/-4,prone). What % of encounters are you likely to come across that you might wish you had this (just those rare times you end up fighting people you'd rather not just slay right out Is there any sort of Acrobatic Leap Attack that doesn't provoke AoO, even in Epic? How about some Epic synergy w/ spring attack and side-step step so that you can also Acrobatically Leap back off your target more than 5' (whaterver distance you can jump from a standstill) after a leap attack or sidestep? Any really sick Epic Synergy? (I know this isn't the Epic Board, but it may be relevant to the pre-Epic build.) Infinite Deflect Arrow worth having? or just Cool Factor? Ground Fighting/Prone Attack? - In the event of a failed trip attempt and successful counter-trip, Is it tactically superior to drop the chain and pick it back up, or take the fall, assuming no spare? Can I acrobatic up quickly? instantly? Skill?/Skill Trick?/Feat? Is Kip-up an acrobat class feature? Are skill-tricks even in the source-books I listed? (to be later released into play) Or, are they obsolete data. Any Feats or other ways of warding yourself from provoking AoO's from an optimized opportunist? Trip and Disarm both require Touch Attacks. Does a Critical Hit have any affect? So..... Will he be able to hang w/ the Big Boys? Or, should I just go Druid20? -----Moskatyak >>> Dance as if nobody's watching <<< >>> Spend like there's no tomorrow <<< >>> Love as if you've never been hurt <<<