Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 innabinder Oct 08, 2008 17:13:03	I know that the majority of the optimized builds on these threads take advantage of cherry-picking the best abilities, dipping into a prestige class for a level or three, then moving on to another prestige class to gain more power. On the other hand, I see quite a few threads where the OP lists one of the DM's house-rules as 'must finish any prestige class taken'. I thought it might be an amusing exercise to try to make the most optimized builds possible, without leaving a prestige class before it's finished. Therefore, the rules of this contest are: 1. 28 point buy – most DM's with this house-rule are fairly conservative in stat generation. No level-adjusted races or races with monster HD. 2.Any 3.5 WotC sourcebook or 3.0 WotC material that was not updated to 3.5. No web enhancements, and no Dragon magazine material allowed. Exceptions: Flaws, Traits, Item Familiars and Domain Wizards are not allowed. 3.You must use a minimum of three (3) prestige classes in your build, and finish each of them. This should make a 10 level prestige class extremely difficult to use. 4.No infinite loop cheese, please. Characters should be playable from level 1 on, without ever being able to smack Ao on the fanny. 5.Let me know if there need to be additional parameters to prevent ludicrous levels of pwnage.
#2 nanshork Oct 08, 2008 19:09:29	Let me pull out one of my babies. Frozen Brawler Frostblood Half-Orc Monk 1/ Half-Orc Paragon 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fist of the Forest 3/ Deepwarden 5/ Frostrager 5 Alignment: Any Lawful Variants: Overwhelming Attack school 1 Monk - Great Fortitude, Improved Unarmed Strike(b), Power Attack(b), Endurance(b) 2 Half-Orc Paragon 3 Half-Orc Paragon - Extra Rage 4 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 5 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 6 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) - Superior Unarmed Strike 7 Fist of the Forest 8 Fist of the Forest 9 Fist of the Forest - Frozen Berserker 10 Frostrager - Track(b) 11 Deepwarden 12 Deepwarden - Hammer Fist 13 Frostrager 14 Frostrager 15 Frostrager - Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) 16 Frostrager 17 Half-Orc Paragon 18 Deepwarden - Extra Rage 19 Deepwarden 20 Deepwarden Other feats of interest: Steadfast Determination, Reckless Rage
#3 innabinder Oct 08, 2008 19:52:03	Nice build, but, as you pointed out, it doesn't finish the Deepwarden PrC. Kudos for using it as more than a 2 level dip, though.
#4 nanshork Oct 08, 2008 20:15:00	Nice build, but, as you pointed out, it doesn't finish the Deepwarden PrC. Kudos for using it as more than a 2 level dip, though. Well I am incapable of finishing it as there are only twenty levels in the build. :P Anyways, I finished three, heh.
#5 archerpwr Oct 09, 2008 0:51:02	Wizard 5/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Ruathar 3/ Initate of the Sevenfold Viel 7 Lil feat tight (more like a lot), but it has two of the most powerful arcane PrCs in print. Order will vary based on goals. Feats arent't that big of a deal. Casters own.
#6 epiqc Oct 09, 2008 2:56:01	Human 01 Druid 1 02 Human Paragon 1 03 Human Paragon 2 04 Human Paragon 3 05 Druid 2 06 Druid 3 07 Uncanny Trickster 1 08 Uncanny Trickster 2 09 Uncanny Trickster 3 :: Natural Spell 10 Planar Shepherd 1 11 Planar Shepherd 2 12 Planar Shepherd 3 13 Planar Shepherd 4 14 Planar Shepherd 5 15 Planar Shepherd 6 16 Planar Shepherd 7 17 Planar Shepherd 8 18 Planar Shepherd 9 19 Planar Shepherd 10 20 Druid 4 Caster level: 18 Wildshape level: 16
#7 ikildkenny Oct 09, 2008 3:47:11	A classic Hellfire Warlock build (noteworthy feats listed) Human STR 8 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 16 01 Marshall [Skillfocus(Diplomacy)(bonus), Nymph's Kiss, Able Learner (human bonus)] 02 Warlock 03 Warlock [Shape Soulmeld(Strongheart Vest)] 04 Warlock 05 Warlock 06 Warlock [Knowledege Devotion] 07 Warlock 08 Warlock 09 Warlock [Improved toughness] 10 Hellfire Warlock 11 Hellfire Warlock 12 Hellfire Warlock 13 Uncanny Trickster (adds to Hellfire Warlock) 14 Uncanny Trickster 15 Uncanny Trickster 16 Fortune Friend 17 Fortune Friend (adds to Warlock) 18 Fortune Friend 19 Fortune Friend (adds to Warlock) 20 Fortune Friend nothing too exciting - Eldrich Blast and Evocations like a lvl 14 warlock + 10d6 Hellfire Damage (=17d6)... noteworthy Invocation: Eldrich chain .. other gimmics: Maxed UMD, adds CHA to Casterlevel checs vs SR (Determined Caster Aura), lots of skilltricks (thus the INT is required to get lots of them).. Pros: the usual all-day-buff-goodness the warlock does, allways high damage, pushable by Items Drawbacks: few HP, Bad BAB, blasting only Notable Items: anything that increases (in Priority Order): CHA DEX AC CON Eldrich Blast Stuff like A wand of Truecasting or Assay Spellresistance Skillchecks (preferebly UMD and Knowledge Skills)
#8 doggieboy Oct 09, 2008 4:33:47	Well well... this looks like a lot of fun. All said and done I should probably explain my train of thought on this otherwise the build might not seem like it was optimized for any purpose. Excuse the tl:dr. It makes this more fun if the reasons and implications of the build are put up to see. The logic Right off the bat, the racial paragons are technically prestige classes (any class which specifically references a class previously taken cannot be considered a base class as its features are only improvements upon existing classes as evidenced by adding spells per level to an existing class), however there is no requirement outside of being that specific race. This grants access to only a three level prestige class even after only first or second level thus bypassing a lot of the difficulty without sacrificing the ability to take other prestige classes if concentrating on non-class specific prestiges. With this in mind, I would choose a spellcasting class as that is the easiest premise for treating a racial paragon as a prestige class as the casting stacks in the same manner as what is undeniably a prestige class. With that in mind, the easiest way to optimize a character is to specialize and the easiest way to specialize with an Arcane caster is probably a Wizard for options. So, the three things I like to do with casters are damage, body generation, and battlefield control. Damage assumes a blaster caster which is more efficiently derived elsewhere and battlefield control is better with being able to take dips which leaves body generation. Now I want a gimmick. This serves no real purpose, I just like to have it. Obviously the focus is Wizard, specialize in Conjuration for summoning, ditch Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning via the Enhanced Summoning variant from Unearthed Arcana, and finally ditch the familiar for the Rapid Summoning variant also from Unearthed Arcana. This nets some nice bonuses, but I rather specifically want a more permanent minion as a body guard at higher levels for the sake of self-sufficiency, and as I no longer can trade my familiar for it, I get to use a class I've been wanting to get at since I read about it: the Effigy Master. There's a feat requirement, blah blah blah, some craft skills I'd be using, and I can't make illusion one of my forbidden schools. Set that on the back burner and here we go with the meat of the build. Now, only four paragons have spellcasting levels that can apply to wizard, three of them have two levels of casting, drow has a level adjustment meaning it's not permitted, which leaves either elf or human if we want the paragon and I'll take a feat over weapon proficiency and an untyped feat against Weapon Focus so I'm going to take Human. It's a wizard, I'm not an equipment *****, so I'm also going to make him old. Now with a 28 Point Buy I nab 18, 13, 13, 9, 9, 8. The 18 is definitely Int, 13 goes to Dex, 13 goes to Con, leaving a 9 Wis, 9 Cha, and 8 Str. Being old gives us the following: Str 5 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 20 Wis 11 Cha 11 Since I've got Human, the first level is your standard Conjurer there isn't anything lost. Second level, all you lose is a single level of spellcasting at the moment which you immediately get back on track with the next two levels of the paragon. During this, you have a grand total of four untyped feats one of which is Spell Focus (Conjuration) and another is Craft Wondrous Item. This gives two feats while making prereqs and giving an additional +2 to Int. So let's check on our status at level 4. We have an effective 3rd level Arcane caster with a +6 bonus to his casting stat which basically makes him casting at the level of the average 4th level Conjurer. All said and done, a very usable 4th level character that only slacked off a little at 3rd level. Now, we don't qualify for Effigy Master just yet, so let's get into the Master Conjurer thus improving upon our Focused Augmented Rapid Summons. That's an immediate three levels without a doubt which gets us another feat. At this point we can immediately go into Effigy Master, but being on the cusp of 4th level spells makes it more beneficial to take another Master Conjurer level before going into getting our Effigy. So at the second benchmark of level 8, we have a +7 casting stat without an enhancement bonus, three undeclared feats, and Greater Focused Augmented Rapid Summons boosted by an additional 7 hit points who can craft his own stuff. Now we can go into Effigy Master. We run Effigy Master all the way through, losing our second caster level, in order to ensure that the Expanded Spellbook from Master Specialist is put to the best use possible. Since we now hopefully have a big meaty shield we made ourselves, this makes the Effigy Master a good background character for directing combat rather effectively. Previously limited by summon duration, the build was a little too fragile to be of use to the party in more than two encounters a day. From here it's pretty cut and dry, we finish out Master Specialist and take our final level in Wizard. But... here's the interesting digest for what we have... A Wizard with a caster level of 20, a spell progression of level 18, a casting stat of +8 without enhancement, the ability to use Summon Monster as a Swift Action via Major School Esoterica and Rapid Summoning bringing in Augmented monsters at virtually no cost character wise, basically what amounts to a mechanical Thrall which is immune to most forms of will/fort saves, and all without taking a single one of the regular character level feats. Huge con with this build is that all but three of the levels had a d4 hit die and Old means our Con sucked. All of that is on top of the Arcane armor failure without a Dex modifier, but there are seven unassigned feats to either offset that debilitation or further maximize the summoning potential of the caster.
#9 xoraxx Oct 09, 2008 5:20:56	hmm.. this is a build I like, has some battlefield control (Jaunter class features witch allow enemies and allies to switch places), a little spellcasting from a great list, great support to allies (+5 initiative/haste), and dish out alot of damage when needed. Dread Shadowlord: Show Half-Drow STR 12 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 8 Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 2/ Jaunter 4/ Teflammar Shadowlord 6/ Dread Commando 5 Hit-and-Run ACF 1 Dodge, Weapon Finesse (Dualist Bonus) 3 Mobility 4 Spring Attack 5 Blind-Fight 6 Martial Studie (Shadow Jaunt) 9 Martial Stance (Assassin’s stance) 12 Shadowblade 15 Two Weapon Fighting 18 Craven *Dual wield Manyfang Daggers. In the end you get DEX to damage twice and INT to damage once, +2d6+20 Sneak Attack, 3d6 Sudden Strike, BAB 17. (all of wich except 5d6 is multiplied by 4) You also have four ways to activate Shadowpounce.
#10 innabinder Oct 09, 2008 7:34:18	@ archrpwr: Show Wizard 5/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Ruathar 3/ Initate of the Sevenfold Viel 7
#11 pithica Oct 09, 2008 9:39:09	Human Beguiler 1/Wizard 1 (Diviner)/Human Paragon 3/Ultimate Magus 10/Archmage 5 It's cheezy, but I'm counting Human Paragon as a PrC, rather than a 'base-class' both because it has limited levels and a requirement (and it doesn't count for XP penalties). Max Int at startup (18-16 points), Put Con at 12 (4 points) and leave everything else at 10. (I think that's 28 points, If I'm wrong, dump strength). Take a Metamagic Feat at 1, Practiced Spellcaster-Beguiler at 3, and the skill focus/spell focuses required for archmage at any point you have the feats and don't mind spending them. The spell focuses should probably be on Illusion and Conjuration. Spend any left on what you want, I personally like Insightful Divination (Greater Prying Eyes gives you True Seeing 'guards' AND a +9 insight bonus to 1 Init and Save for 24hrs) and Minor Shapeshift (20 hp of 'healing' as swift action every round). For stats, bump the Int by 2 (HP 3) and spend every point from stats increases on Int, buying a +5 tome and a +6 headband. That should put you at a total Int of 36 which is boosting both your arcane classes. You're going to drop Enchantment for Diviner, since you won't really be using it at high levels, and you'll get plenty of the lower stuff from beguiler anyway. @20, you're looking at 18th level Wizard casting (CL 22 or 23 if you take that Arcana) and 9th level Beguiler casting (CL 17) with no MAD before Items/buffs. In addition, all your wizard spells (that qualify) may already be Shaped, Reach, and/or Energy Substituted for free (if you take the appropriate Arcana), and you can blow Beguiler spell slots to additionally add any of the 3 (minimum) other metamagic feats you know to any spell up to 5th level. I personally am a fan of Extend (for all those lower hr/level spells), Persistant (Bite of the WereTiger will help your poor physical stats immensely), and Chain (chain Spelltheft is my favorite), but you can take your pick based on how you play wizards. The last Arcana I'd take is the 'Spell-Like Ability' one on a 9th level spell. A Ring of Wizardry III will give you 30 extra spell levels to blow on free metamagic. Going from 1 to 20 should be almost no different than any other wizard/sorceror. Your spell progression is one level behind sorceror (as far as when you get new spell levels) so that sucks a bit, but at 1-3 the versatility from Beguiler and the ability to (somewhat) cast in armor (you still have ASF in wizard, but you can work with that if you are careful) can help you survive the early times well enough, though, this early your BAB is going to suck to poorly to use any kind of normal attacks. When you join UlM, you have the same BAB as a wiz/sor of your level, but an extra feat, many more skills, and a higher Int than the typical Human, and roughly the same CL as any other UlM build. For the next 10 levels, you'll be playing like any other wizard or sorceror, though you'll have to be a bit more selective on spells, seeing as that your a level behind sorcerors and two behind wizards. By 8 or 9, I think the added versatility/caster level adjustment and the free metamagic from UlM, along with the extra spells from Diviner will more than make up for the lack of higher level spells, assuming your creative. As you progress from 10 to 20, you'll more than close the gap and pass your single caster compatriots. EDIT: Those are all great builds. I'm not sure I'm sold on the logic of 'Paragon Class = Prestige Class', though, given that one can take a Paragon Class at 1st level. I didn't specify one way or the other in the parameters, of course - silly me. Opinions on this? I saw this after I wrote out the above. I am of the opinion that a paragon class counts as a PrC for the reasons stated above. It's just a PrC you can take at 1st level. It has requirements (race), it doesn't count toward XP penalties for multi-classing, and it doesn't have a full 20 levels. It's certainly, in that way, more like a PrC than a base class. I'll think a bit and try and come up with one that doesn't use a Pargon class.
#12 doggieboy Oct 10, 2008 0:09:30	@ Xoraxx, Doggieboy, & EpiqC: Those are all great builds. I'm not sure I'm sold on the logic of 'Paragon Class = Prestige Class', though, given that one can take a Paragon Class at 1st level. I didn't specify one way or the other in the parameters, of course - silly me. Opinions on this? Fair enough. I see no reason why they wouldn't be called prestige classes given their nature, but I have another one that's less spectacular. Ironically, rather than having a Racial Paragon it just flatly enhances the race's traits. So here's a Wolf Shifter with a gimmick I find rather hysterical. Wolf Shifter Race: Shifter Classes: Barbarian, Scout, Weretouched Master, Reachrunner, Uncanny Trickster Level 1 Ability Scores: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 8 Post Racial Scores: Str 16 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha 6 Shifting Racial Scores: Str 16 Dex 18 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha 6 Level 20 Ability Scores: Str 20 Dex 17 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha 6 Shifting Racial Scores: Str 22 Dex 23 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha 6 Shifting Raging Score: Str 26 Dex 23 Con 22 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha 6 Progression 01 Scout ~ Endurance 02 Wolf Totem Barbarian 03 Wolf Totem Barbarian ~ Improved Trip, Dodge 04 Scout 05 Scout 06 Wolf Totem Barbarian ~ Mobility 07 Scout ~ Spring Attack 08 Weretouched Master (Wolf) 09 Weretouched Master ~ Track, Longstride Elite 10 Weretouched Master 11 Reachrunner ~ Atheletics 12 Reachrunner ~ Shifter Savagery 13 Reachrunner 14 Reachrunner ~ Run 15 Weretouched Master ~ Shifter Instincts, Bounding Assault 16 Uncanny Trickster 17 Uncanny Trickster (Scout) 18 Uncanny Trickster (Wolf Totem Barbarian) ~ Improved Skirmish 19 Reachrunner 20 Weretouched Master
#13 Senevri Oct 10, 2008 2:27:12	So here's a Wolf Shifter with a gimmick I find rather hysterical. That's awesome. Well done.
#14 pithica Oct 10, 2008 7:35:38	Since HP was debatable, I also considered the following... Human Wizard 5/Ruathar 3/Magical Trickster 3/Uncanny Trickster 1/Incantatrix 1/Uncanny Trickster +2/Archmage 5 You don't finish Incantatrix, but you do finish Four PrC's. I only took it to give something for Uncanny Trickster's 2nd/3rd abilities to apply to other than Wizard. Stat's work like any other Wiz with the 28 point buy, boost Int to max, dump Str, boost Con a bit, everything else a 10. Playing this would work just like any other wizard from 1-20. Though, you do lose 2 caster progressions, at 9 and 12, putting you behind your fellows from thereafter. I think the bonus skill tricks and tricky metamagic make up for that loss, and then some, but I know most people around here will react otherwise.
#15 xoraxx Oct 10, 2008 8:31:58	@ Xoraxx: What source material is Duelist? The one I'm familiar with is a PrC in the DMG, not available at 1st level. I'm sorry, I meant the Swashbuckler from Complete warrior (always call that one dualist :S), I'll edit the build.
#16 innabinder Oct 10, 2008 8:36:23	I'm sorry, I meant the Swashbuckler from Complete warrior (always call that one dualist :S), I'll edit the build. I thought you probably meant Swashbuckler, but couldn't be certain. I like the build - reminiscent of a couple other Multipouncer concepts without quite as much cheese dip. Jaunter is from which book, again?
#17 xoraxx Oct 10, 2008 8:45:00	The Jaunter is from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits
#18 hogarth Oct 10, 2008 9:03:44	Mister Resister, Human Ranger 5/Dragonmark Heir (House Deneith) 5/Eldeen Ranger (Ashbound) 5/Occult Slayer 5 Required Feats: Weapon Focus, Track, Favored in House, Least Dragonmark, Improved Initiative Abilities: SR 20, spell turning, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Globe of Invulnerability, bonus to saves vs. arcane spells
#19 tytalus Oct 10, 2008 9:23:35	The Missile Specialist: Wizard5/WarMage5/ForceMissileMage5/ArgentSavant5 A single casting of Magic Missile is stilled (no somatic components), creates 7 missiles, each doing 1D4+5 damage (total 7D4+35, average 52.5), automatically breaching Shield spells (and equivalents), with a +2 to overcome enemy SR and the possibility to get an energy descriptor of your choice (except sonic). Add Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile) and your favorite array of metamagic effects (split/chain/empower/etc.), and you are surprisingly effective. The PrCs (especially War Mage) add a whole slew of other abilities that are useful, too. Notes Sorcerer6/WarMage5/ForceMissileMage5/ArgentSavant4 is considerably better than the wizard build, but doesn't finish all three PrCs by level 20. With the White Dragonspawn template and LA buyoff, Sorcerer5/WarMage5/ForceMissileMage5/ArgentSavant5 is superior still)) Sources: War Mage: Age of Immortals, Dragonlance Force Missile Mage: Dragon Compendium Argent Savant: Complete Arcane White Dragonspawn: Dragonlance Campaign Setting
#20 ikildkenny Oct 10, 2008 9:59:47	got another one based on the general idea by Tytalus: GrayElf (abilities @ lvl 1 incl. mods): STR 6 CON 13 (the lvl 4 Point goes in here, any following in INT) DEX 18 WIS 8 CHA 8 INT 18 vorbidden Schools: Enchantment, Necromancy 01 Evoker 02 Evoker 03 Evoker 04 Evoker 05 Evoker 06 Evoker 07 Evoker 08 Magical Trickster 09 Magical Trickster 10 Magical Trickster 11 Force Missle Mage 12 Force Missle Mage 13 Force Missle Mage 14 Force Missle Mage 15 Force Missle Mage 16 Argent Savant 17 Argent Savant 18 Argent Savant 19 Argent Savant 20 Argent Savant Noteworthy Feats: Improved Toughness (youll need those Hitpoints), Metamagic Feats, Arcane Thesis (Magic Missle), Practised Spellcaster (you lose 3 CL in total) good thing is, you still get 9th level spells ... and you MM alot of stuff+great bonuses on force spells in general - the spec. on evocation is because of the extra spellslot(s) - a focused conjurer could work also, but its hard to find a 3rd school to ban alternativly one could consider A build like this one: Human (or Illumian) STR 8 CON 14 DEX 16 WIS 8 CHA 16 INT 10 01 Marshall (determind Caster) 02 Stallwart Battle Sorcerer (you focus on Magic missle - you do not need that many different Spells) 03 Sorcerer 04 Sorcerer 05 Sorcerer 06 Sorcerer 07 Sorcerer 08 Magical Trickster 09 Magical Trickster 10 Magical Trickster 11 Force Missle Mage 12 Force Missle Mage 13 Force Missle Mage 14 Force Missle Mage 15 Force Missle Mage 16 Argent Savant 17 Argent Savant 18 Argent Savant 19 Argent Savant 20 Argent Savant in general the Same build - since you do not gain 9th level spells anyways, you can go for the bonus agains spellresistance (and the Hitdie and the skillpoints) - nymph's Kiss is allmost the most important feat here + the one whose name I forgot that lets you Metamagic as sorc without a fullround action + versityle spellcaster
#21 naldor Oct 10, 2008 10:21:23	Wizard 5 / Incantrix 10 / Archmage 5. It finishes everything, and if you cheese your spellcraft sufficiently (I've gotten it over +100 easy) you can metamagic the equivilent of lvl 20 spells. Even Planar Shepard can't compare to the beauty of Persistant Timestop cheese. (Celerity + Persistant Timestop + Delay Spell = spend a couple minutes / day battling, then go take a nap in Timestop) :D
#22 amadithegreat Oct 10, 2008 10:24:54	Human Wizard 1 / Human Paragon 3 / Metaphysical Spellshaper 3 / Incantatrix 10 / Ruathar 3 Needs Sanctum Spell to qualify Spellshaper. Reduces level adjustments of all metamagic feats by 2 and is capable of taking ability damage to apply metamagic effects to spells cast spontantenously. Only loses 1 CL. Gets +2 Int and all incantatrix goodies.. Ruathar is in there just for kicks. And should be replaced with Magical Trickster for power. In addition, it finishes 4 PrCs. AND uses 10-level PrC. :P @Naldor: Errata > your timestop cheese.
#23 naldor Oct 10, 2008 10:32:06	Amadi: I thought CustServ never made that timestop errata official? In any case, persistant Greater Blink, Lightning Ring, Forsight, Absorption, etc. truly make the Incantrix shine. And I'm quite sure that Ice Assassin never got errata'd.... If not for finishing classes, I'd throw in a level of Cleric & 4 of Dweomerkeeper for 1/day free Wish.
#24 ninjarabbit Oct 10, 2008 10:43:30	Just because I'm tired of seeing wizards...... Warforged fighter2/duskblade5/abjurantchampion5/spellcarvedsoldier5/exoticweaponmaster3 Str 14 dex 12 con 16 (14 +2) int 14 wis 6 (8 -2) cha 6 (8 -2) 1-fighter1- adamatiate body, combat expertise 2-fighter2- improved trip 3-duskblade1- EWP spiked chain 4-duskblade2-combat casting 5-duskblade3 6-duskblade4-battle caster 7-abjurant champion1 8-abjurant champion2 9-abjurant champion3- silver tracery 10-abjurant champion4 11-abjurant champion5 12-spellcarved soldier1-power attack 13-spellcarved soldier2 14-spellcarved soldier3 15-spellcarved soldier4- WF spiked chain 16-spellcarved soldier5 17-duskblade5 18-EWM1-flurry stunt- arcane strike 19-EWM2- trip stunt 20-EWM3- whatever stunt
#25 hogarth Oct 10, 2008 11:33:04	Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 10/Ruathar 3/Wonderworker 3
#26 innabinder Oct 10, 2008 11:54:11	Wizard 5 / Incantrix 10 / Archmage 5. It finishes everything, and if you cheese your spellcraft sufficiently (I've gotten it over +100 easy) you can metamagic the equivilent of lvl 20 spells. Even Planar Shepard can't compare to the beauty of Persistant Timestop cheese. (Celerity + Persistant Timestop + Delay Spell = spend a couple minutes / day battling, then go take a nap in Timestop) :D One of the all-around best Epic-ready builds, and a classic, but doesn't qualify for this contest because it lacks a 3rd prestige class. Duskblade 6/Abjurant Champion 5/Sword of Righteousness 3/Wonderworker 3/Ruathar 3. With Arcane Strike and Arcane Channeling (and the parameters of the contest), the Wonderworker levels don't actually screw this up, giving the small boost to expendable spells. 4 prestige classes finished.
#27 emy Oct 10, 2008 12:04:19	Human Wizard 1 / Human Paragon 3 / Metaphysical Spellshaper 3 / Incantatrix 10 / Ruathar 3 Needs Sanctum Spell to qualify Spellshaper. Reduces level adjustments of all metamagic feats by 2 and is capable of taking ability damage to apply metamagic effects to spells cast spontantenously. Only loses 1 CL. Gets +2 Int and all incantatrix goodies.. Ruathar is in there just for kicks. And should be replaced with Magical Trickster for power. In addition, it finishes 4 PrCs. AND uses 10-level PrC. :P @Naldor: Errata > your timestop cheese. What's Metaphysical Spellshaper from? I'm not seeing it on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes Oh google tells me it's BoEF. That's not 3.5, sorry. A friend of mine told me about that metamagic specialist class (which has a power level of MAXIMUM) but we refer to it colloquially as the '*****mancer' because of its source. I didn't remember the class's real name. XD
#28 hogarth Oct 10, 2008 12:26:16	Elven Ranger 2/Binder 3/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/Revenant Blade 5/Exotic Weapon Master 3/? 2
#29 surreal Oct 10, 2008 16:33:19	Warforged Cleric 3/Totemist 2/Landforged Walker 5/Sapphire Hierarch 10 - needs law and travel domain to meet prereqs - 9th level divine spells, incarnum for added punch and versatility - plant shape + soulmelds for the smackdown
#30 innabinder Oct 10, 2008 16:54:05	Nice idea, Surreal, but it doesn't meet requirement #3: 3.You must use a minimum of three (3) prestige classes in your build, and finish each of them. This should make a 10 level prestige class extremely difficult to use.
#31 obtusehobbit Oct 10, 2008 18:26:54	Title: Uber Shifter Race: Longtooth Shifter Build Stub:Sifter sub Ranger 1/Warblade 4/Warshaper 5/Weretouched Master 5/Bloodclaw Master 5 Build Progression:
#32 playswithfire Oct 11, 2008 8:07:30	How about an exalted fist of the forest? Half-Orc monk (invisible eye variant) 2/Fighter 2/Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 3/Forskaker (MotW 3.0) 10/Fist of the Forest 3 Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike Power Attack Great Fortitude Iron Will Lightning Reflexes Sacred Vow Vow of Poverty TWF, ITWF,GTWF Improved Natural Attack(unarmed strike) Sanctify Natural Attack 4 exalted feats left over, sadly nothing useful Stats: STR 17+6+5* 28 DEX 8+2 10 CON 16+8+2+5*+5 36 INT 10 10 WIS 14+4 18 CHA 6 6 *inherent bonuses from forsaker CON to AC twice (natural armor and untyped bonus) unarmored, plus various AC boosting effects from VoP Show AC bonus +10, deflection +3,Natural armor +2 Also gets: endure elements,mind shielding,greater sustenance,freedom of movement, resistance +3, regeneration, true seeing, Ability score enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, damage reduction 10/evil, Exalted strike +5 (magic,good), energy resistance 15
#33 innabinder Oct 11, 2008 8:20:39	How about an exalted fist of the forest? Half-Orc monk (invisible eye variant) 2/Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 3/Forskaker (MotW 3.0) 10/Fist of the Forest 3/Deep Warden 2 *snip* Well done finishing a 10 level PrC, but the 2 levels of Deepwarden disqualify the entrant from this contest. Any 2 levels of a base class appear to solve that problem at the cost of some AC.
#34 playswithfire Oct 11, 2008 9:19:52	Fair enough; fighter levels, then
#35 frostwolf Oct 11, 2008 10:33:54	Never Mind. It was a bad idea.
#36 altpersona Oct 11, 2008 12:22:10	half orc HO para 3/ Orc Para 3/ menacing brute 5 / ewm 3 / streetfighter 5 /X 1 (barb by default) full bab, unless X isnt. very intimidating... its a shame not to have bloodlines in it.. would have to find another good 3 lvl prc..
#37 Chaos_Redefined Oct 12, 2008 16:02:11	As a very simple approach to this problem: Druid 20. Feats include Natural Spell. After that, go nuts.
#38 innabinder Oct 12, 2008 19:36:32	As a very simple approach to this problem: Druid 20. Feats include Natural Spell. After that, go nuts. Doesn't fulfill the '3 prestige classes taken' requirement of the challenge, though. ;)
#39 jameswilliamogle Oct 12, 2008 20:24:42	Binder 4 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Tenebrous Apostate 5 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 / Ruathar 3 / Major Bloodline 2 EBL 20, 1 feat requirement, casts L3 cleric spells or the less abusive non bloodline Binder 5 / Tenebrous Apostate 5 / KoSS 5 / Scion of Dantalion 5.
#40 surreal Oct 20, 2008 2:02:16	Hmm... Gnome Wizard 5/Nightmare Spinner 5/Dread Witch 5/Shadowcraft Mage 5
#41 james_moriarty Oct 20, 2008 2:46:55	The char I'm playing in our Campaign will become a HumanParagon3/Sorcerer2/HarperParagon10/Abjurant Champion5 (using the regional feat "foe hunter" to get a favored enemy) not exactly optimized but very funny to play
#42 pithica Oct 20, 2008 7:23:17	Hmm... Gnome Wizard 5/Nightmare Spinner 5/Dread Witch 5/Shadowcraft Mage 5 :P stole my idea. Focused Specialist Illusionist 5 works better than Wiz 5 for that build (with all the other ACF you can buy). But, either way, it's disgusting.
#43 CantripN Oct 20, 2008 7:51:45	How about a simple Human Bard 9 / Warblade 1 / Sublime Chord 10? Feats: 1 - Dragontouched (Healing Hymn replaces Fascinate) 1B - Dragonfire Inspiration 3 - Draconic Heritage (Battle Dragon) 6 - Melodic Casting 6B - Song of the Heart (SotH replaces Suggestion) 9 - Words of Creation 12 - Versatile Spellcaster 15 - Song of the White Raven 18 - Disguise Spell Maneuvers: White Raven Tactics Iron Heart Surge Wall of Blades Stance: Bolstering Voice Spell List (in that order, though trading some spells with level like Dispel Magic): Cantrips (Bard) - Ghost Sound, Detect Magic, Light, Mending, Prestidigitation, Message. 1st (Bard) - Improvisation, Inspirational Boost, Joyful Noise, Instant Diversion. 2nd (Bard) - Harmonize, Glitterdust, Heroics, Sonorous Hum. 3rd (Bard) - Creaking Cacophony, Insignia of Healing, G'elsewhere Chant. 4th (Sublime Chord) - Fugue, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Improved Invisibility, Assay Spell Resistance. 5th (Sublime Chord) - Wail of Doom, Greater Dispel Magic, Mass Fly, Wall of Force. 6th (Sublime Chord) - Empyreal Ecstasy, Irresistible Dance, Snowsong, Nixie's Grace. 7th (Sublime Chord) - Arcane Spell Surge, Elemental Body, Bigby’s Grasping Hand. 8th (Sublime Chord) - Greater Shadow Evocation, Ghost Form, Veil of Undeath. 9th (Sublime Chord) - Time Stop, Replicate Casting.
#44 hogarth Oct 20, 2008 7:58:49	How about a simple Human Bard 9 / Warblade 1 / Sublime Chord 10? I think you have the wrong thread; the goal is to complete 3 prestige classes.
#45 innabinder Oct 20, 2008 11:06:43	Hmmm, sblock's aren't working as intended. Perhaps the initial post is too large. Please, keep submitting concepts. I may not be able to make them fit at the beginning of the thread anymore, but these are all great ideas, guys.
#46 surreal Oct 20, 2008 15:30:38	:P stole my idea. Focused Specialist Illusionist 5 works better than Wiz 5 for that build (with all the other ACF you can buy). But, either way, it's disgusting. True enough. I forgot to write "and stuff as many ACFs as you can into those first few levels". I was also contemplating starting with a Changeling, just keep one of the fear based PrC, use racial emulation for SCM, and top it all off with Recaster.
#47 ninjarabbit Oct 21, 2008 10:01:00	ex-paladin1/blackguard10/exoticweaponmaster3/focusedspecialistwizard1/abjurantchampion5 Get 10 levels of blackguard by trading in paladin levels, I couldn't really think of anything else to finish the build so it's a placeholder until I think of something
#48 innabinder Nov 01, 2008 22:48:07
#49 emy Nov 02, 2008 4:29:45	The Undead Dancer(trix) Necropolitan Human Wizard 5/Spelldancer 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 5/Geometer 5 The feat requirements are both harsh and wonky early on... Low-level feat breakdown They necessitate the use of this wizard variant to get into Spelldancer as soon as possible without flaws. She'll also need to take Scribe Scroll somewhat later in her career (which is pretty funny, for a wizard). Human: Combat Casting (for Spelldancer and Spellguard) Level 1: Endurance (for Spelldancer) Wizard 1: Dodge (for Spelldancer) Level 3: Extend Spell (for Persistent Spell and Spellguard) Wizard 5: Mobility (for Spelldancer) Level 6: Persistent Spell (YES)
#50 innabinder Nov 02, 2008 9:58:13	Eberron exclusive cold warrior (augh, bad pun:P ): Human Lion Totem Barbarian 3/Fighter 1/Fist of the Forest 3/Frostrager 5/Cyran Avenger 5/Ruathar 3 Show Barb 1: Power Attack, Extra Rage Barb 2: Barb 3: Improved Unarmed Strike Barb 3/Fighter 1: Great Fortitude Barb 3/Ftr 1/Fist of the Forest 1: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 2: Frozen Berzerker Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frostrager 1 Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 2: Stunning Fist Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 3: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 4: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5: Track Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/Cyran Avenger 1: Heroic Spirit (bonus) Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 2: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 3: Fists of Iron Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 4: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 5: Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 5/Ruathar 1: Instantaneous Rage Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 5/Rua 2 Barb 3/Ftr 1/FoF 3/Frgr 5/CyA 5/Rua 3
#51 pithica Nov 02, 2008 10:08:18	Necropolitans don't have to be evil (in fact, most are of neutral bent, see the example in the book). Likewise, in Faerun, there are many types of 'undead' that aren't evil, Baelnorn, Archliches, Posi-liches, Revenents, et cetera. Some are even 'good'. You're still likely to have to deal with 'issues', from many, but the setting is rife with examples of 'evil' creatures acting as 'good guys'. That's the MO of the gameworld.
#52 pyromancer999 Mar 06, 2009 18:03:37	Where's the Weretouched Master class from?
#53 phaedrusxy Mar 06, 2009 18:20:46	Human Wiz 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Shadocraft Mage 5/Magical Trickster3 The trick: use Vestige Metamagic to Heighten Silent Image for free to 10th level with Earth Spell to cast 9th level conjuration/evocation spells as early as 10th level (Bind1/Wiz1/AM5/SCM3). :D Add on Residual Metamagic, and you can emulate a 2nd 9th level spell using a Silent Image for free on the next round. Finally, combine this with the Magical Trickster's Tricky Metamagic to also apply Repeat Spell to the first one, and you could cast three 9th level spells using two 1st level slots in two rounds once per day, and ultimately get a total of seven 9th level spells per day cast from 1st level slots... Progression: 1 Focused Illusionist 1 Precocious Apprentice, Toughness 2 Binder 1 [Retrain Toughness to Improved Binding] 3 Anima Mage 1 Heighten Spell 4 AM 2 [Retrain Prec. App. to Earth Sense] 5 AM 3 6 AM 4 Earth Spell 7 SCM 1 8 SCM 2 9 SCM 3 Residual Magic, [Shadow Illusion] 10 AM 5 [Vestige Metamagic] 11 AM 6 12 AM 7 Repeat Spell, [Vestige Metamagic x2] 13 AM 8 14 AM 9 [Vestige Metamagic x3] 15 AM 10 Chain Spell 16 MT 1 17 MT 2 Quicken Spell (MT bonus) 18 MT 3 [Metamagic Trick], Open Feat 19 SCM 4 20 SCM 5 Skill Tricks: False Theurgy, Swift Concentration, Collector of Stories, ? Alternative: You could use Uncanny Trickster instead of Magical Trickster. By advancing Anima Mage with this, you could get an EBL of 15 for the purposes of what level vestige you can bind, allowing you to bind vestiges of up to 7th level. You'd lose the free metamagic from Magical Trickster, but it might be worth it. Edit: Oops. Had too many levels in there. You can get into Anima Mage as a Wiz1/Binder1, though, with some trickery. Take Precocious Apprentice at 1st, and Toughness. Retrain Toughness to Improved Binding at 2nd. This requires a flaw, though, unless you can retrain Scribe Scroll or your DM lets you enter SCM as a human. Making this a Focused Specialist is probably a good idea. If you can use a flaw or otherwise get an extra feat somehow, I'd go with a gnome illusionist for this, and take the 1st substitution level.
#54 innabinder Mar 06, 2009 18:31:47	:OMG! Scary build there, Phaedrus; very scary indeed.
#55 keithio Mar 06, 2009 19:19:09	The build is nice, but... 1+2+10+5+3 = Waaaaaaait a minute.
#56 keithio Mar 06, 2009 20:47:08	Since there's not enough love for gishes in this thread: Barbarian1/Wizard6/Ruathor3/AbjurantChampion5/Archmage5
#57 hogarth Mar 06, 2009 21:01:53	Where's the Weretouched Master class from? Eberron Campaign Setting. Eberron has lots of interesting 5 level PrCs, it seems.
#58 obtusehobbit Mar 07, 2009 12:33:24	Here is another one. . Build below: Race: Desert Half-Orc Stats: Str 14 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 10 Chr 15 Build Progression: lvl Class Feats 1) Barbarian 1: Intimidating Rage, Run ACF: Whirling Frenzy, Lion totem 2) Half-Orc Paragon 1: 3) Fighter 1: Improved Iniative, Instantenous Rage 4) Half-Orc Paragon 2: 5) Fighter 2: Power Attack 6) Fighter 3: Skill Focus (Intimidate), Imperious Command ACF: Zhentarim Warrior 7) Half-Orc Paragon 3: 8) Avenging Excutioner 1: 9) Avenging Excutioner 2: Leap Attack 10) Avenging Excutioner 3: 11) Avenging Excutioner 4: 12) Avenging Excutioner 5: Improved Bullrush 13) Battle Trickster 1: 14) Battle Trickster 2: Shocktrooper 15) Battle Trickster 3: Meanacing Demeonor 16) Dragon Devotee 1: 17) Dragon Devotee 2: 18) Dragon Devotee 3: Willing Deformity 19) Dragon Devotee 4: 20) Dragon Devotee 5: Notes: The character is designed to focus on Fear Effects, but not to be a one trike pony. To that end the main points of the character are as follow: Intimidate Check of 39 + Chr mod Avenging Excution fear stuff 5d6 Sudden strike Leap Attack + Shocktrooper + Power Attack + Pounce combo Intimidating Rage + Imperious Command + Instantaneuos Rage combo 16 BAB Downside: Skillpoints are very tight
#59 gorfnad_the_shiznit Mar 08, 2009 16:00:07	Bard 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Squire of Legend 3/ Uncanny Trixter 3/ Sublime Chord 1/ Ruathar 3/ Magical Trixter 3/ Wayfarer Guide 3 6 prestige classes, 8th level spells...so close to getting 9th any ideas?
#60 Otto_the_Bugbear Mar 08, 2009 18:44:07	Maybe something like... Half-Elf Bard 2 / Half-Elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 3 / Ruathar 3 / Elf Paragon 3 / Stoneblessed 3 / Dwarf Paragon 3
#61 phaedrusxy Mar 08, 2009 18:46:24	Bard 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Squire of Legend 3/ Uncanny Trixter 3/ Sublime Chord 1/ Ruathar 3/ Magical Trixter 3/ Wayfarer Guide 3 6 prestige classes, 8th level spells...so close to getting 9th any ideas? Dump one of the PrCs that loses a CL after 10th...
#62 innabinder Apr 23, 2009 7:39:49
#63 Senevri Apr 23, 2009 9:28:40	...Bard 7/Combat Medic 5/War Weaver 5/Uncanny Trickster 3?
#64 innabinder Apr 23, 2009 9:48:28	...Bard 7/Combat Medic 5/War Weaver 5/Uncanny Trickster 3? It looks like that works if you take Combat Medic last and can manage the skill tricks; Heal as a CC skill is the sticking point.
#65 Senevri Apr 23, 2009 13:48:23	It looks like that works if you take Combat Medic last and can manage the skill tricks; Heal as a CC skill is the sticking point. I'm almost certain there's a feat to do that... In any case, CM is the bonus; the meat is, as it usually is, in War Weaver + Uncanny Trickster.
#66 hogarth Apr 23, 2009 14:08:36	I'm almost certain there's a feat to do that... In any case, CM is the bonus; the meat is, as it usually is, in War Weaver + Uncanny Trickster. I'd rather have Recaster than Combat Medic, but that's changeling-only.
#67 Senevri Apr 23, 2009 14:49:37	Also setting-specific. :P
#68 gorfnad_the_shiznit Apr 23, 2009 16:08:11	Dump one of the PrCs that loses a CL after 10th... I guess... Bard 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Squire of Legend 3/ Uncanny Trickster 3/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3 5 prestige classes, 9th level spells
#69 hogarth Apr 23, 2009 16:11:39	I guess... Bard 1/ Human Paragon 3/ Squire of Legend 3/ Uncanny Trickster 3/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3 5 prestige classes, 9th level spells That breaks the original poster's rule of "you can't switch prestige classes once you start one", though.
#70 gorfnad_the_shiznit Apr 23, 2009 16:36:30	That breaks the original poster's rule of "you can't switch prestige classes once you start one", though. Ah okay then Bard 3/ Human paragon 3/ Uncanny Trickster 3/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3/ Magical Trickster 3 5 prestige classes and 6th level bard spells
#71 innabinder Jul 30, 2009 19:54:21	To prevent archival greyness. Ex-Samurai 2/Ronin 10/Dread Commando 5/Sword of Righteousness 3. This should work because Ronin and Samurai interact in the same way as Blackguard and Paladin. Credit to DocRoc for pointing out the hack.
#72 aelryinth Jul 30, 2009 21:27:05	@ archrpwr: Show Wizard 5/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Ruathar 3/ Initate of the Sevenfold Viel 7
#73 innabinder Jul 30, 2009 22:16:09	It should work unless channelling Hellfire is explicitly an evil act. The fact that Hellfire is based in evil may or may not qualify it as such; I'm currently without access to the Hellfire Warlock's source material to doublecheck.
#74 ikildkenny Jul 31, 2009 0:55:22	As a matter of fact, it ist not an evil act of any means - in this case i'd call it a "using the evil's powers for its own destruction" thingy and nothing ever prevents anyone from "reflavoring" the Hellfire Warlock to have a mor "Exaltet" theme
#75 kell_kheraptis Jul 31, 2009 1:20:46	Hmm...how about : [u]Fatemaster of Lore[/u] Wizard 5/Geometer 5/Fatespinner 5/Archmage 5 A master of the scribed word, and can also make sure nothing happens to his precious paper through rerolls. [u]The Elves' Transporter[/u] Wizard 6/Human Paragon 3/Ruathar 3/Wayfarer Guide 3/Fatespinner 5 Still caps at 9th level spells, improved teleportation abilities for this elf-friend, and the rerolls make sure he never flubs a teleport. All for now, it's late and I'm winging it :P
#76 luthien_greyspear Jul 31, 2009 1:50:30	Maybe something like... Half-Elf Bard 2 / Half-Elf Paragon 3 / Human Paragon 3 / Ruathar 3 / Elf Paragon 3 / Stoneblessed 3 / Dwarf Paragon 3 Sadly, the Ruathar does NOT negate the restriction in the half-elf paragon's Divided Ancestry ability. It specifically says there that they make take levels in either Human paragon or Elven paragon, but not both. However, I would allow this in one of my games! Talk about your ultimate diplomat!
#77 siranui Jul 31, 2009 3:08:30	Just to ratch up PrCs, one could opt for a half-elf, take the half-elf paragon, human paragon, exotic weapon master and a couple of 5 level PrCs, thus technically 'completing' 5 PrCs by 20th level! Although... frankly I wouldn't know what to do with them... perhaps play a giff with a whip! Edit: Someone else had a similar idea. Must read whole thread before posting, in future!
#78 flawless_p Jul 31, 2009 3:36:19	Also setting-specific. :P I don't see anything in its description that suggests campaign specific, hell even says "Recasters are a natural fit in any campaign that includes changelings." That paired with the fact that recasters are self taught tells me the they are usable in any setting that allows Changelings, which exist in all settings. ;)
#79 ikildkenny Jul 31, 2009 4:41:06	in hommage to all the recently postet "paragon Madness" Builds: Half-Orc Lion Totem Barbarian1/martial focused Transmuter2/Half-Orc Paragon3/Orc Paragon3/Abjurant Champion5/Stoneblessed 3/Dwarf Paragon3 Stats (32 Point-Buy): STR 15 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 5(levels) = 26 CON 14 + 2 = 16 DEX 14 CHA 8 - 2 = 6 INT 16 - 2 = 14 WIS 10 taking in account a belt of Magnificense +6 and +4 Tomes for CON and STR you end up at: STR 36 CON 26 DEX 20 CHA 12 INT 20 WIS 16 looks good at this end of the line .. suggested Feats: Combat Casting (Prereq), Power Attack, Extra Rage, Bind Vestige (Naberius), Shock Trooper important Spells: Shield (+9AC), Greater Luminous Armor (+13AC), Polymorph thus giving you un-polymorphed an AC of 37 without any additional shaningans (NA or Deflection to AC), Naberius is bound to avoid/heal STR Damage from Luminous Armor, CL will be 18 ... oh, and Darkvision 120 ft + some kind of "favored Enemy: Elves"
#80 innabinder Jul 31, 2009 8:11:56	Sadly, the Ruathar does NOT negate the restriction in the half-elf paragon's Divided Ancestry ability. It specifically says there that they make take levels in either Human paragon or Elven paragon, but not both. However, I would allow this in one of my games! Talk about your ultimate diplomat! Also, paragon classes are generally restricted to no more than two, total, even allowing for divided ancestry. I'd allow in my campaigns as well, for what it's worth, just as I've allowed the idea of Helf Bard 1/Helf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3/Dragon Disciple 10/HDragon Paragon 3. I'm trying to finagle something with Impure Prince for this thread...
#81 hsien Jul 31, 2009 9:11:46	2 options for Master Thrower build: 3 Rogue / 3 Fighter / 3 Swash / 3 U Trickster / 5 MasterThrower/ 3 Battle trickster UT to add to class ability if F4, for wpn spec; Pre-req to Ranged Wpn Mastery OR lose the BTrickster 3 Rogue / 3 Swash / 1 Fighter / 3 U Trickster / 5 MasterThrower/ ( 5 Invisible Balde or 5 Avenging Excutioner )
#82 innabinder Aug 01, 2009 19:56:10	As threatened, er, promised, an Impure Prince build. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 6/Jaunter 4 STR 10 DEX 14 CON 15 INT 14 WIS 14 CHA 8 Show 1. Ranger - FE: Undead. Feats: Midnight Dodge (c), Symbiont Mastery(a), Track (Bonus Feat) 2. Ranger 2 - IUS (Bonus Feat from Bear-Wrestling Style (Dragon 326 p97)) 3. Ranger 3 - Feat: Mobility 4. Ranger 4 - BOOST CON 5. Ranger 5 - FE: Aberrations 6. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 1(a) - Feat: Open Least Chakra (Hands, Sphinx Claws)(c) 7. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 2 8. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 3 - BOOST CON 9. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 4 - Feat: Spring Attack 10. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5 11. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 1 (a) 12. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 2 - BOOST CON; Feat: Multiattack 13. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 3 14. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 4 15. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 5 - Feat: Bonus Essentia (c) 16. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 6 - BOOST CON 17. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 6/Jaunter 1 (b) 18. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 6/Jaunter 2 - Feat: Open Lesser Chakra (Arms, Girallon Arms)(c) 19. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 6/Jaunter 3 20. Ranger 5/Deadgrim 5/Impure Prince 6/Jaunter 4 KEY: A. Deadgrim, Impure Prince, and the Symbiont Mastery feat are from Magic of Eberron. B. Jaunter is from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, with thanks to carnivore for bringing it to my attention months ago. C. Midnight Dodge, Open Least Chakra, Bonus Essentia, Open Lesser Chakra, and the accompanying paranthetical information are from Magic of Incarnum.
#83 kilroo Aug 02, 2009 0:32:40	Let me pull out one of my babies. Frozen Brawler Frostblood Half-Orc Monk 1/ Half-Orc Paragon 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fist of the Forest 3/ Deepwarden 5/ Frostrager 5 Alignment: Any Lawful Variants: Overwhelming Attack school 1 Monk - Great Fortitude, Improved Unarmed Strike(b), Power Attack(b), Endurance(b) 2 Half-Orc Paragon 3 Half-Orc Paragon - Extra Rage 4 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 5 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) 6 Stoneblessed (Dwarf) - Superior Unarmed Strike 7 Fist of the Forest 8 Fist of the Forest 9 Fist of the Forest - Frozen Berserker 10 Frostrager - Track(b) 11 Deepwarden 12 Deepwarden - Hammer Fist 13 Frostrager 14 Frostrager 15 Frostrager - Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) 16 Frostrager 17 Half-Orc Paragon 18 Deepwarden - Extra Rage 19 Deepwarden 20 Deepwarden Other feats of interest: Steadfast Determination, Reckless Rage
#84 innabinder Aug 02, 2009 6:59:08	I really just want to point out that I don't see any reason you couldn't just finish Deepwarden intead of going Frostrager, if that were considered to better fit the requirements of the thread. I'll give you two possible reasons: Pounce, Rend. Frostrager's full-attack options via the Frostrage, One-Two Punch, and Rend are scarier combat options than an animal messenger spell. The improvements to Natural Armor are also appreciated, especially since the published nerf of the Deepwarden's CON to AC ability. The most common sentiment on the CO boards, in fact, is that Deepwarden is only two levels long.
#85 aelryinth Aug 02, 2009 12:24:11	As a matter of fact, it ist not an evil act of any means - in this case i'd call it a "using the evil's powers for its own destruction" thingy and nothing ever prevents anyone from "reflavoring" the Hellfire Warlock to have a mor "Exaltet" theme Using evil's power against itself is explicitly calling on the power of evil to do your work for you. That's not good, at best it's neutral, and definitely it's not Exalted. In Exalted status you don't twist the spirit of the rules to justify something, a fact people have real problems with for the Vow Of Poverty, among other things. Using Hellfire Warlock is exactly like going around wielding an unholy weapon, or somesuch. You are calling on the powers of Evil to grant you might to smite your foes. I'm not sure about the flavor of the class, but I believe that requires making a pact of some sort with devils, too. You are violating the spirit of the Exalted status on multiple levels! So, I'd have to say strike the Nymph's Kiss feat. It definitely isn't going to fly here. ==Aelryinth
#86 innabinder Aug 02, 2009 12:55:31	Using evil's power against itself is explicitly calling on the power of evil to do your work for you. That's not good, at best it's neutral, and definitely it's not Exalted. In Exalted status you don't twist the spirit of the rules to justify something, a fact people have real problems with for the Vow Of Poverty, among other things. Using Hellfire Warlock is exactly like going around wielding an unholy weapon, or somesuch. You are calling on the powers of Evil to grant you might to smite your foes. I'm not sure about the flavor of the class, but I believe that requires making a pact of some sort with devils, too. You are violating the spirit of the Exalted status on multiple levels! So, I'd have to say strike the Nymph's Kiss feat. It definitely isn't going to fly here. ==Aelryinth Opinion noted, but that's all it is: opinion. Others have voiced a dissenting opinion.
#87 aelryinth Aug 02, 2009 13:44:54	Opinion noted, but that's all it is: opinion. Others have voiced a dissenting opinion. anytime you have to justify something when dealing with Exalted status, you're on incredibly shaky ground. people hate dealing with alignment issues simply because of the hard and fast abscence. With Exalted, there is no grey. You take the highest road. Using Evil against itself is grey, not Exalted behavior. But, c'est la vies. However, saying that you can reflavor to your hearts content doesn't justify the build, unless you specifically say you are house ruling away any conflicts. ==Aelryinth
#88 innabinder Aug 02, 2009 14:09:27	Please stop derailing my thread. Thank you.
#89 aelryinth Aug 02, 2009 16:02:38	Please stop derailing my thread. Thank you. Noting that a build posted is illegal is a service to the thread. Derailing it is when the OP doesn't like such stuff being pointed out to the other posters, yes? ==Aelryinth
#90 ikildkenny Aug 02, 2009 17:23:50	only to (try) to put an end to this discussion: concerning hellfire Damage as a "non exalted deed" is imho nothing more than a flavor thing - at that is mostly up to the DM how and esspecially WHERE he/she draws "the line". But, since we are here at the CO boards, RP-issues are of no concern - remember, many many builds posted all over the boards require allignment shifts only to work (e.g. a Monk taking a level of Barbarian). So I personally think, there is no reason to discuss RP-guidelines In a content where they for the sake of the build do not belong to ... as a sidenote: the build does not "require" Nymph's kiss - its just a nice addition (and saves you ability points for INT)
#91 Jarveiyan Aug 02, 2009 23:22:16	Hmm...how about : [u]Fatemaster of Lore[/u] Wizard 5/Geometer 5/Fatespinner 5/Archmage 5 A master of the scribed word, and can also make sure nothing happens to his precious paper through rerolls. [u]The Elves' Transporter[/u] Wizard 6/Human Paragon 3/Ruathar 3/Wayfarer Guide 3/Fatespinner 5 Still caps at 9th level spells, improved teleportation abilities for this elf-friend, and the rerolls make sure he never flubs a teleport. All for now, it's late and I'm winging it :P Don't you have to have 6 levels of wizard before going geometer?
#92 flawless_p Aug 02, 2009 23:59:19	only to (try) to put an end to this discussion: concerning hellfire Damage as a "non exalted deed" is imho nothing more than a flavor thing - at that is mostly up to the DM how and esspecially WHERE he/she draws "the line". But, since we are here at the CO boards, RP-issues are of no concern - remember, many many builds posted all over the boards require allignment shifts only to work (e.g. a Monk taking a level of Barbarian). So I personally think, there is no reason to discuss RP-guidelines In a content where they for the sake of the build do not belong to ... as a sidenote: the build does not "require" Nymph's kiss - its just a nice addition (and saves you ability points for INT) Ditto on the DM discretion thing, I personally would rule in favor of HF Warlock working with Exalted Feats but that's me as a DM(Also it is important to note that Hellfire was created by Mephistopheles using something created by an evil entity is not evil, any number of magic items could have been made by an evil caster and that has no bearing on your Exalted status.) But I digress, So yeah as has been said... Ask your DM
#93 meatzombie Aug 03, 2009 1:14:29	Diviner 7/Fortunes Friend 5/Fatespinner 5/Magical Trickster 3 Feats 1 Spell focus (div) 3 Insightful divination 6 Misers Fortune 9 MAgical fortune 9(FF) Better Lucky Than good 11(FF)Dumb Luck 12 Fortuitous Strike 15Tempting Fate 18 Unbeleivable Luck 19(MT)Metamagic feat of choice You re-roll EVERYTHING you dont like. Twelve luck rolls total. However, you lose out on 5 casting levels, ouch. Oh and as bonus Skill tricks Conceal Spellcasting False Theurgy It doesn't have to be Diviner, I just think it fits. Also, even though its awesome you get 2 luck rolls and some "spin" you lose out on 5 casting levels...ouch. Gnome Wizard 5/ Maester 5/ Effigy Master 5/Archmage 5 Honestly, I only put archmage cuz I couldn't think of one better for the theme. but you get it. Take every item creation feat you can.