I want to try a VoP Monk, the psionic kind. Is this adoable? (for someone who has never played a psionic class before). Can psionic power overcome the lack of versatility that comes with VoP? (like a Sacred Fist PrC can with divine spells)
I was (of course) thinking using the 'TASHALATORA' feat form Secrets of Sarlona. I'm not quite sure what feats to pick, but by gong this route I'm already hooked on:
- sacred vow (BoED)
- VoP (BoED)
- Monastic training (ECS)
- Tashlatora (SoS)
.... and the 'usual' feats: Improved natural attack, Ability focus (stunning fist), Intuitive strike (BoED, bonus)...but I'm open to any ideas
For a psionic class to combine with Monk I had some ideas, but am still looking.
- classes that some to mind are the psychic warrior, ardent, soulknife
- PrC that come to mind are 'sanctified mind' (LoM), 'warmind' (EPH)
EDIT: what Psionic Powers are good for a Psionic Monk?
Can you give me some general pointers?
Monk 2/Psion (nomad or egoist) 6/Slayer 10 would be fine (with one of the feats that allows you to use Int instead of Wis -- Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine [sp?] Monk).
Monk 4/Duskblade 1/War Mind 10 would be so-so.
Monk 11/Duskblade 1/War Mind 8 would be very monk-y, but you wouldn't get a lot of psionic powers out of the deal.
Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10
BAB +16
Greater Flurry
9th lvl Powers @ 20th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Psion)
lots of powers known
use Carmondine Monk.... everything based on Int
but for a Wis based build:
Monk 2/ Ardent 8/ Slayer 10
BAB +17
9th lvl powers @ 20th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
fewer powers known
for a more Martial approach:
Monk 2/ Ardent 3/ Warmind 5/ Slayer 10
BAB +18
9th lvl Powers @ 17th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
2nd lvl Warmind Powers
Sweeping Strike!!!
:D
both Kurashu and hogarth have great suggestions ... i would personally go with:
Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10
Personally, I don't like builds that require you to change alignment mid-way. YMMV, of course.
The weapon choice might need to change (needs a simple polearm) and hexblade needs to be switched out for something else as well as the feats reworked to add in VoP, but it's an idea.
You'll probably want to go: Monk 2/Ardent 8/Slayer 10. If I remember right, Ardent is widsom based and that'll get you 17th level manifesting. Take practiced manifester to reclaim those three lost levels and you're set.
from what book is the Slayer? Why is Ardent better compared to psychic warrior ?
BTW, will the psionc power give me the versatility the VoP took away? (like flying and overcoming DR)
p.s. yes, I'm new to this
from what book is the Slayer? Why is Ardent better compared to psychic warrior ?
BTW, will the psionc power give me the versatility the VoP took away? (like flying and overcoming DR)
p.s. yes, I'm new to this
Slayer == Illithid Slayer (from the XPH or the SRD)
Ardent uses Wisdom for manifesting powers, so there's some synergy with the monk. The list of powers is limited compared to the psion, though.
Yes, you can fly using psionics (but not really until you get 4th level powers).
Overcoming DR with your unarmed attacks will still be a problem (e.g. there's no psionic power that turns your fists into silver), but you can take various damage-dealing powers and/or physical buffs, of course.
from what book is the Slayer? Why is Ardent better compared to psychic warrior ?
Because it can eventually get 9th level powers.
carnivore stuck a pile more Monk stuff at the end of his Psion guide.
Ardent is the second place choice, but can certainly be used as above.
No idea which is better with VoP.
Titan Bloodline 3 , for the really big weapon ,
and one of the weird wizards.com feats, so you can flurry with it.
Here yer going off into the far realms of CO.
Are you sure you don't want some Wizard or Beholder Mage Monk cheese? Y'know, flurry with Eye Stalks.
I Have some questions and remarks:
- the psion would make the VoP-monk more versatile, but I don't want to go too far at that: i need a melee build mainly
- the funny thing is: the Tashlatora feat will ad your psionic class level to your monk level for Flurry of Blows..... but the psion will give you not much on your BAB....is there a conflict there?
- where can I find the "Carmondine Monk"
- the ardents seems nice with the 'freedom' (fly) and 'conflict' mantles (for instance)...but the class lacks a bit of versatility
- the slayer seems so be a very good PrC: full BAB and 9/10 ML.... the focus on Illithids I don't need that much, though
Another reason I'm asking about the versatility of 'psionic' VoP-monks, is that I'm also considering a Divine-Monk (Sacred-Fist-ish).
thanks !
p.s. I'm not completely new on optimisation, I'm new on Psionics (as in green)
- the funny thing is: the Tashlatora feat will ad your psionic class level to your monk level for Flurry of Blows..... but the psion will give you not much on your BAB....is there a conflict there?
not any more - there has been one in 3.0 where monks had their "special" BAB .. in 3.5 this has been replaced with the Flurry rule
- where can I find the "Carmondine Monk"
IIRC in the Champions of valor
alternativly you could take Kung-fu-Genius (DR #3something) - does the same thing without the nice little "push your Monk level by 2" thingy
- the ardents seems nice with the 'freedom' (fly) and 'conflict' mantles (for instance)...but the class lacks a bit of versatility
as you allready mentioned, you want a melee build - thus you only need powers (and mantles) that push your melee-powers - versatility is a secondary point ... I wouldn't bother with that unless you could get that without restraining your prowness
- the slayer seems so be a very good PrC: full BAB and 9/10 ML.... the focus on Illithids I don't need that much, though
you allready said it - full Bab and 9/10 ML - the illithid stuff is a nice gimmic but not the reason to take this class
I personally prefer the Sacred-Fist-ish Monk - though you loose flurry-ability and of course some casterlevels...
btw. Id recommend a build involving a Favoured Soul as Divine Part - better saves and less problems in terms of casting - and for the really cool VoP feats you cannot really dump Charisma anyways (something about 15-16 yould'nt be that bad)
- the psion would make the VoP-monk more versatile, but I don't want to go too far at that: i need a melee build mainly
hence all the Builds suggest getting out of Psion and going into a Full BAB Psionic PrC.... since the PrC(Slayer/Illithid Slayer) advances some Manifesting Class.... Psion is an ideal choice since it gives a lot of PP and Powers Known
- the funny thing is: the Tashlatora feat will ad your psionic class level to your monk level for Flurry of Blows..... but the psion will give you not much on your BAB....is there a conflict there?
No... see above... usually you pick the Full BAB psionic class to apply Tashalatora to... thus gain the best effect from taking the whole 10 levels of the PrC
- where can I find the "Carmondine Monk"
Champions of Valor ....... Kung Fu Genius does something similar... adn can be found in CrystalKeep in my Sig
- the ardents seems nice with the 'freedom' (fly) and 'conflict' mantles (for instance)...but the class lacks a bit of versatility
the nice thing about Ardent is:
1)3/4 BAB class
2)Wisdom based Manifesting
3)uniqure way of gaining Powers Known based on ML..... thus you can use the feat Practiced Manifester to boost ML to get access to higher levels of powers with Virtual Class levels... IE: 13 levels of Ardent with Practiced Manifester get 9th lvl Powers
- the slayer seems so be a very good PrC: full BAB and 9/10 ML.... the focus on Illithids I don't need that much, though
Slayer/ Illithid Slayer does focus on Illithids... but its class abilities are useful vs most enemies... the key abilities are 9/10 Manifesting, Full BAB, Cerebral Blind and Cerebral Immunity
Another reason I'm asking about the versatility of 'psionic' VoP-monks, is that I'm also considering a Divine-Monk (Sacred-Fist-ish).
the nice thing about using Psionics... Tashalatora Progresses Monk abilities INCLUDING Flurry of Blows.. while at the same time.. the Psionic PrC is progressing Manifesting ability...exa:
Monk 1/ Ardent 2/ Cleric 3/ Psychic Theurge 10/ xxxx 4 = any full spellcasting progressing class
can be of any race, but if it doesnt have "Any" or "Cleric" as favored class, you need to take one of the following feats to avoid xp penalties:
Mark of Hleid
Blessed of Tem-et-Nu
Both give Cleric as an ADDITIONAL Favored class
Feats:
Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
Monastic Training(Psychic Theurge)(monk Bonus feat)
Tashalatora(Psychic Theurge) ...allows Psychic Theurge to Progress monk Abilities(Unarmed Damage,AC,FLURRY of Blows)
after that feel free to take any feats to customize as you like:
Improved Natural Attack
Intuitive Attack
Reserve feats
Domain Feats
DMM(Persistant) path also works well
everything is based on Wis ..... and can have BAB of Fighter(Divine Power) 17th lvl cleric, 20th lvl monk
or this:
Beguiler 1/ Monk 2/ Psion 7/ Cerbremancer 10
Practiced Manifester(Psion)
Monastic Training(Cerbremancer)(monk Bonus feat)
Tashalatora(Cerbremancer) ...allows Cerbremancer to Progress monk Abilities(Unarmed Damage,AC,FLURRY of Blows)
Carmondine Monk... Monk Abilities based on Int
Everything based on Int....
17th lvl Manifesting(20th with Practiced Manifester)
11th lvl Beguiler abilities(15th lvl Caster with Practiced Caster)
Trapfinding
great Skills
12th lvl Monk abilities(AC, Unarmed Damage @ 14th(can boost further with Superior Unarmed Strike to 19th lvl), Greater Flurry)
:D
as you allready mentioned, you want a melee build - thus you only need powers (and mantles) that push your melee-powers - versatility is a secondary point ... I wouldn't bother with that unless you could get that without restraining your prowness
THat is not what I mean with 'versatility'. I mean versatility as being an effective meleebuild in different situations.
As you go up in levels you encounter more and more creature that have DR, can Fly of have other nasty defenses that could make you inadequate.
That's when magical items come in, to overcome that problem. A VoP character doens't have that possibility, so should get it from somewhere else (like spells). Divine VoP-Monks can get it (for instance) through levels of Cleric and Sacred Fist.
I'm wondering if psionics have that same possibility. *SHOULD* I get Psion-levels to be versatile and thus effective versus such opponents at higher levels?
So something like Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer (or Monk 2/Ardent 3/Ghostbreaker, if you can use the awesome Ghostbreaker class from Hyperconscious) would be good.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more Ardent seems appropriate; it's the only way to get Metamorphosis by level 7 for a multiclass character, and Metamorphosis will provide most of the versatility you need.
OKay, It's a bit like polymorph. But the frst sentece says you *cannot* change into a construct, elemental, outsider of undead. Especially the outsider-shape would help getting me DR/good. The construct could give me DR/any metal..... what a shame. Or do you have other ideas?
BTW, why can't another psionic class (like psion) get you that power at 7th level (4th lvl power) in multiclass?
Thanks for the replies till so far!
I Have some questions and remarks:
- the psion would make the VoP-monk more versatile, but I don't want to go too far at that: i need a melee build mainly
If you don't get much in the way of precombat buffing rounds (like 0):
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1565.0
The weapon choice might need to change (needs a simple polearm) and hexblade needs to be switched out for something else as well as the feats reworked to add in VoP, but it's an idea.
BTW, why can't another psionic class (like psion) get you that power at 7th level (4th lvl power) in multiclass?
I just mean that a monk 2/psion 5 can't get Metamorphosis, but a monk 2/ardent 5 can (for instance).
If you really want to bypass DR/good, you can take the psionic feat Aligned Attack. It requires you to expend your psionic focus though, so it's not that great.
Human
Monk 2/ Ardent 3/ Warmind 5/ Slayer 10
BAB +18
9th lvl Powers @ 17th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
2nd lvl Warmind Powers
Sweeping Strike
Feats:
Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
3rd lvl: Track
6th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
9th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Schism)
12th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)
15th lvl: Robilars Gambit
18th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(?????)
10 Exalted Bonus Feats:
Nymph’s Kiss
Intuitive Attack
Nimbus of Light
Holy Radiance
Servant of the Heavens
Touch of Golden Ice
4 additional Exalted feats ????
Mantles:
Natural World
Freedom
????
:D
Hogarth gave me:
Monk 2/Psion (nomad or egoist) 6/Slayer 10 would be fine (with one of the feats that allows you to use Int instead of Wis -- Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine [sp?] Monk).
I gues this is a simple and straithfoward build (which I like BTW), in which you loose 3BAB in 6 Psion levels and 4BAB in total. This will hurt the first 8 levels the most.... and also my Flurry i guess. But still it seems a nice BAB+16 build.
Carniviore gave me:
Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10
BAB +16
Greater Flurry
9th lvl Powers @ 20th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Psion)
lots of powers known
use Carmondine Monk.... everything based on Int
Why is this better? Will the AI give me extra abilities that are worth it? Does the Tashlatora-feat 'cover' this all?
1-Monk 1: stunning fist(bonus), sacred vow, VoP (bonus, human)
2-Monk 2: monastic training (bonus)
3-Psion 1: Tahslatora (Psion) (bonus), Cardendine Monk
4-Psion 2
5-Psion 3
6-Psion 4: Track (for Slayer)
7-Psion 5: practiced manifester (bonus)
8-Psion 6:
9-Slayer 1: Improved Natural Attack
10-Slayer 2 :
11-Slayer 3 :
12-Slayer 4 : xxx
13 Slayer 5 : ... etc
What I understand from the Tashlatora-feat is that I'll progres my monk-abilities untill 8th level this way. Correct? That's not all that great for a melee-character
...but Carnivore suggested applying the Tashlatore feat to te Slayer-PrC (or any other full BAB-PrC)
.... and if I'm serious about being a Monk, can I apply it to 2 classes? ...like:
1-Monk 1: stunning fist(bonus), sacred vow, VoP (bonus, human)
2-Monk 2: monastic training (bonus)
3-Psion 1: Tahslatora (Psion, bonus), Cardendine Monk
4-Psion 2
5-Psion 3
6-Psion 4: Track (for Slayer)
7-Psion 5: practiced manifester (bonus)
8-Psion 6:
9-Slayer 1: Tahslatora (Slayer)
10-Slayer 2 :
11-Slayer 3 :
12-Slayer 4 : Improved Natural Attack
13 Slayer 5 : ... etc
What i don't like , is that I was thinking about taking 'Improved Natural Attack' at an early level, taking my melee-role seriously. It seems that it won't be that early. But then again, my psionic powers will give me a lot too.... probably power that is even better.
EDIT: I just found out that the class you pick with 'Monastic training' has to be the same as with 'Tashlatora'. So in a way you HAVE to pick *one* psionic class, or else you will be spending 4 feats on this trick
So isn't it better if I pick just a few levels of Psion?
btw. Id recommend a build involving a Favoured Soul as Divine Part - better saves and less problems in terms of casting - and for the really cool VoP feats you cannot really dump Charisma anyways (something about 15-16 yould'nt be that bad)
I'm talking with my DM about swapping the Bonus Exalted feats for feats from the 'Magic of incarnum' (yup, a pretty novel idea). The spirit feel of it attracts me, and my DM seems to like the flavour an trying something new. Nothing concrete yet, though.
Human
Monk 2/ Ardent 3/ Warmind 5/ Slayer 10
BAB +18
9th lvl Powers @ 17th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
2nd lvl Warmind Powers
Sweeping Strike
Feats:
Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
3rd lvl: Track
6th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
9th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Schism)
12th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)
15th lvl: Robilars Gambit
18th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(?????)
Mantles:
Natural World
Freedom
THe problem for me with this build is that you get Tashlatore only at 12th level, making you an effective monk just at 12 level. I don't want to me a nag, but i feel that I need to keep up my Flurry as much as possible ... when I'm serious about being a melee-monk.
But I'm not experienced in either playing a Monk OR an psionic character... so maybe I'm missing something (I see the power of 'Sweeing strike' though)
How about: Human, Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 10 /x4
BAB +18 (depending on x)
9th lvl Powers @ 17th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
Feats:
Stunning Fist (monk Bonus)
Practiced Manifester(Ardent) .... another feat, how?
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
2nd: Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
3rd lvl: Track
6th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)
9th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Expansion).. I think 'Schism' is more for a *full* Psionic characters
12th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
15th lvl: ....
18th lvl: [we hardly reach 18th level:D ]
(so, I want to make the 'gap' between Monk and Slayer as small as possible)
10 Exalted Bonus Feats:
Nymph’s Kiss
Intuitive Attack
and maybe some incarnum feats like 'sphinx claws' and 'phase cloak'
Mantles:
-Freedom
-Natural World
- as 2nd: energy, conflict ....
Powers (something like):
1st Dimension Hop, Mataphysical Weapon, Prescience Offensive
2nd Lions pounce, Scent, Animal Affinity, (Hustle)
3rd Dimensional Slide, ...
4th Metamorphosis, Fly
5th Teleport, Freedom of Movement
etc
I could use help some help, though :D
Feats:
Stunning Fist (monk Bonus) --> Personally, I like Improved Grapple more, but YMMV.
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
2nd: Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
3rd: Tashalatora
6th: Practiced Manifester
9th: Metamorphic Transfer
Mantles:
Natural World, Conflict, Guardian (Law, if you want to be a grappler)
Carniviore gave me:Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10
BAB +16
Greater Flurry
9th lvl Powers @ 20th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Psion)
lots of powers known
use Carmondine Monk.... everything based on Int
Why is this better? Will the AI give me extra abilities that are worth it? Does the Tashlatora-feat 'cover' this all?
Anarchic Initiate is a 3/4 BAB Full Manifesting PrC... thus you will get to BAB+16 for maximum number of attacks pre-EPIC and still have Full manifesting
Human
Monk 2/ Ardent 3/ Warmind 5/ Slayer 10
BAB +18
9th lvl Powers @ 17th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
2nd lvl Warmind Powers
Sweeping Strike
Feats:
Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
3rd lvl: Track
6th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
9th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Schism)
12th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)
15th lvl: Robilars Gambit
18th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(?????)
Mantles:
Natural World
Freedom
THe problem for me with this build is that you get Tashlatore only at 12th level, making you an effective monk just at 12 level. I don't want to me a nag, but i feel that I need to keep up my Flurry as much as possible ... when I'm serious about being a melee-monk.
But I'm not experienced in either playing a Monk OR an psionic character... so maybe I'm missing something (I see the power of 'Sweeing strike' though)
How about: Human, Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 10 /x4
BAB +18 (depending on x)
9th lvl Powers @ 17th lvl Manifester(with Practiced Manifester(Ardent)
Feats:
Stunning Fist (monk Bonus)
Practiced Manifester(Ardent) .... another feat, how?
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
2nd: Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
3rd lvl: Track
6th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)
9th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Expansion).. I think 'Schism' is more for a *full* Psionic characters
12th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
15th lvl: ....
18th lvl: [we hardly reach 18th level:D ]
(so, I want to make the 'gap' between Monk and Slayer as small as possible)
10 Exalted Bonus Feats:
Nymph’s Kiss
Intuitive Attack
and maybe some incarnum feats like 'sphinx claws' and 'phase cloak'
Mantles:
-Freedom
-Natural World
- as 2nd: energy, conflict ....
Powers (something like):
1st Dimension Hop, Mataphysical Weapon, Prescience Offensive
2nd Lions pounce, Scent, Animal Affinity, (Hustle)
3rd Dimensional Slide, ...
4th Metamorphosis, Fly
5th Teleport, Freedom of Movement
etc
I could use help some help, though :D
the thing to remember.... Flury of blows maxes out at 11th Monk level... with Greater Flurry(+2 additional attacks @ full BAB with no penalty)
all you need to do is make sure that you have at least 11 "Effective" Monk levels between Monk and Slayer
Ardent needs at least 14 Effective Ardent levels to get to 9th lvl Powers
so Slayer 10 can provide 9 "Effective" Ardent levels and 10 "Effective" Monk levels at the same time
:D
the thing to remember.... Flury of blows maxes out at 11th Monk level... with Greater Flurry(+2 additional attacks @ full BAB with no penalty)
all you need to do is make sure that you have at least 11 "Effective" Monk levels between Monk and Slayer
Right...but from levels 3 to 11, your build is not advancing monk abilities at all. If you're starting from level 1, that's a lo-o-o-o-ong time to wait for more monk abilities!
Right...but from levels 3 to 11, your build is not advancing monk abilities at all. If you're starting from level 1, that's a lo-o-o-o-ong time to wait for more monk abilities!
not quite.... he will be able to take Slayer as soon as he gets to BAB+4
thus :
Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 2/ Slayer 10
only waits from 3-8th.... but its not too much of a wait ... since his Psionics really start to take off
:D
not quite.... he will be able to take Slayer as soon as he gets to BAB+4
thus :
Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 2/ Slayer 10
only waits from 3-8th.... but its not too much of a wait ... since his Psionics really start to take off
:D
Here's what it says in the feat list for your build:
"12th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)"
As I said before, I think Monk/Ardent is the way to go. In fact, I think you could just go with a plain Monk 2/Ardent 12 finishing off with Slayer (or Sanctified Mind or Ghostbreaker or whatever) with Ardent as your Tashalatora class.
That's indeed an easier route.
That would probably make it Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8 (making the Ardent the Tashlatora class)....since you need 11 levels of Monk to get greater Flurry (so Ardent9), but a 10th Ardent-level you get another BAB+ and another Mantle.
You'll loose 2BAB compared to my earlier "Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 10 /x4" build, but it adresses the Monk-part earlier (I'm probably cursing in the 'Church of optimisation' now): you'll get greater Flurry at 11th level in stead of 15th level.
So that might be:
Stunning Fist (monk Bonus) --> maybe I'll swap this one and get 'Imp Nat Attack' earlier
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
2nd: Monastic Training(Ardent)(monk bonus)
3rd lvl: Tashalatora(ardent)
6th lvl: Practiced Manifester
9th lvl: Expanded Knowledge(Expansion)
12th lvl: Track
15th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
18th lvl: Metamorphic Transfer
Getting Metamorphosis will compensate for a lot of weaknesses, I think.
Well, what i'm looking for a guide that helps me getting teh right shapes with this power. As there a a guide like that?
Feats:
Stunning Fist (monk Bonus)
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
2nd: Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
3rd: Tashalatora
6th: Practiced Manifester
9th: Metamorphic Transfer
This feat is Another good idea. But again it makes me wonder what shapes are worth it.
so Slayer 10 can provide 9 "Effective" Ardent levels and 10 "Effective" Monk levels at the same time
That i understand. But what i'm trying to tell over again, is that i see myself a melee-Monk first and a Psionic character second.
In your earlier build you suggested to take Tashlatora at 12th level. That's a long wait from 2nd level (the Monk-breakoff point). Hogarth seems to see that too....but that might just me a typo from your part.
I see the power behind "Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 2/ Slayer 10" (loose 6 monk levels, but gain 2 back by the Carmendine-feat. great build, thanks), but it has Alignment problems, don't you think.
Here's what it says in the feat list for your build:
"12th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)"
actually that is for the other build:
Monk 2/ Ardent 3/ Warmind 5/ Slayer 10
for the Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10 build, i did not give a feat list.... but heres one that would work well:
Feats:
Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Overchannel(psion bonus)
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
3rd lvl: Carmondine Monk
6th lvl: Track
9th lvl: Tashalatora(Slayer)
12th lvl: Imp Natural Attack
15th lvl: Robilars Gambit
18th lvl: Quicken Power or Twin Power
:D
Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10/ finish Ardent for the last 4 levels
or
Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 10/ finish Ardent for the last 4 levels.. for more psionics
gives :
at 15th lvl:
BAB +13
Greater Flurry
Wisdom based Psionics
get into Slayer as fast as possible..... hogarth had an excellent build... and feat Progression:
modified quote:=hogarth
Feats:
Improved Grapple (monk Bonus)
Sacred Vow(human bonus)
1st lvl: VOP
2nd: Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
3rd: Tashalatora(Slayer)
6th: Practiced Manifester
9th: Metamorphic Transfer
12th: Imp Natural Attack(unarmed Strike)
15th: Combat Reflexes
18th: Robilars Gambit
Mantles:
Natural World, Conflict, Guardian
i would suggest ... Destruction, Freedom, Natural World
:D
6 HD
Bladerager Troll.... great Str,Dex,Con, Nat armor
9 HD
Cave Troll .... as Bladerage troll+ Pounce, Rend, Imp Grab
14HD
Wartroll ...... as above but better, and Faster
or you could use Hydra forms.... a Single attack for the Hydra consists of all of its heads attacking(Bite)... for more fun use Cryo/Pyro Hydra forms and use Metamorphic Transfer to have Multiple Breath attacks
Movement forms:
Will-o-Wisp... Flight(perfect)
Pegasus ...... fast flight
Dragon ....... very Fast flight
things to Look For:
bonus to Natural Armor
high Str,Dex,Con
Large size+(will boost unarmed damage)
reach
Special attacks: Pounce, Rend, Imp Grab, Constrict, etc...
high speed
movement modes: Flight, Burrow, Climb, Swim
:D
for a Melee character first.... focus on Melee classes
Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10/ finish Ardent for the last 4 levels
or
Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 10/ finish Ardent for the last 4 levels.. for more psionics
Mantles:
Natural World, Conflict, Guardian
i would suggest ... Destruction, Freedom, Natural World
:D
I like the 'Natural World' and the 'Freedom' mantles. I gave them a good look and I think that the 'Fate' mantle could be a good extra, since it has powers at levels that are a bit meager at the two other mantles.
Disintegrate
Teleport
Metamorphosis
Fly or Overland Flight
Tornado Blast
also look for bonus feats that will help:
Conflict: Weapon focus(any)
Destruction: Imp Sunder, while focused(IIRC)
it always useful to have something different up your sleeve to surprise enemies with.... (Nobody expects a monk to unleash a Tornado Blast :P )
:D
Race: Human
Feats:
1) Sacred Vow
H) Vow of Poverty
Exalted 1) Whatever
Monk bonus 1) Whatever
Exalted 2) Whatever
Monk bonus 2) Monastic Training(PW)
3) Tashalatora(PW)
PW bonus 3) Whatever
Exalted 4) Whatever
PW bonus 4) Whatever
6) Whatever
Exalted 6) Whatever
PW bonus 7) Whatever
Exalted 8) Whatever
9) Whatever
Exalted 10) Whatever
PW bonus 10) Whatever
12) Whatever
Exalted 12) Whatever
PW bonus 13) Whatever
Exalted 14) Whatever
15) Whatever
PW bonus 16) Whatever
Exalted 16) Whatever
18) Whatever
Exalted 18) Whatever
PW bonus 19) Whatever
Exalted 20) Whatever
Good choices for Whatevers: Weapon focus(some polarm), Pole master(some polearm), link power, psionic meditation, overchannel, talented, power attack, improved bullrush, knockback, shock trooper, standstill, combat reflexes, touch of golden ice, improved grapple, improved trip, combat expertise, EK(Metamorphasis), karmic strike, dodge, mobility, elusive target, nymph's kiss, etc.
Good choices for powers: Expansion, vampiric blade
- the slayer seems so be a very good PrC: full BAB and 9/10 ML.... the focus on Illithids I don't need that much, though
You should use the SRD Slayer instead. That's one of the very few differences between the official books and the SRD - Illithid copyrights prevent printing them on the SRD and thus the class can't reference Illithids either. Therefore, you get a much better class - the Slayer can choose its favoured enemy!
Feats:
1st: Sacred Vow
Human: Vow of Poverty
Monk 1: Improved Grapple
Monk 2: Monastic Training
3rd: Tashalatora (Ardent), Mantles [Natural World, Guardian]
4th: Mantle [Law]
6th: Practiced Manifester
7th: Mantle [Freedom]
9th: Metamorphic Transfer
12th: Track, Mantle [Time]
15th: Quicken Power
18th: Psionic Meditation
Powers:
1st - Metaphysical Claw, Thicken Skin, Grip of Iron
2nd - Damp Power, Animal Affinity
3rd - Dispel Psionics, Time Hop
4th - Metamorphosis, Psionic Fly, Steadfast Perception
6th - Temporal Acceleration
[etc., will fill in later]
Good forms for grappling - phthisic, remorhaz, behir (constrict + rake!)
You should use the SRD Slayer instead. That's one of the very few differences between the official books and the SRD - Illithid copyrights prevent printing them on the SRD and thus the class can't reference Illithids either. Therefore, you get a much better class - the Slayer can choose its favoured enemy!
it's nice to be able to choose....but what the heck are good *psionic* opponents that comne along more frequent than illithids.... when your campaign isn't used to psionics :D
Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 18
Race: Human
what power do you recommend? Is it enough to make up for the loss of magical items (VoP): example, would he be able to Fly or gain powers that would enhance his versatility in combat
what power do you recommend? Is it enough to make up for the loss of magical items (VoP): example, would he be able to Fly or gain powers that would enhance his versatility in combat
For powers, we would probably want something like this (note that none of the psionic builds shown so far have the ability to fly as far as I can tell):
1) Bite of the Wolf
2) Defensive Precognition
3) Expansion
4) Hustle
5) Detect Hostile Intent
6) Strength of my enemy
7) Vampiric Blade
8) Dimension Slide
9) fairly open power depending on your goals
10) Energy Adaptation
11) Psionic D Door
12) Fairly open power here
13) Oak body
14) Fairly open power here
15) Fairly open power here
16) Form of Doom
17) Dispelling Buffer
18) Personal Mind blank
You can get flight in a number of ways:
1) Dragonborn of Bahamut (I'd suggest you pick a race with better stats than human and simply delay VoP if you do this) for constant flight at 6 HD
2) EK:Fly. This kind of sucks.
3) EK: Metamorphasis. Can get you flight, but there's still a better option.
4) Abberant blood, abberant reach, starspawn
That's three feats that get you:
+2 grapple (or maybe something else), 5' more reach all the time, A solid constant fly speed.
You do have enough feats lying around to get those.
Powers:
1st - Metaphysical Claw, Thicken Skin, Grip of Iron
2nd - Damp Power, Animal Affinity
3rd - Dispel Psionics, Time Hop
4th - Metamorphosis, Psionic Fly, Steadfast Perception
6th - Temporal Acceleration
[etc., will fill in later]
Power I like of the ardent mantles:
natural world:
1- metaphyccal claw
2- *animal affinity*
4- *metamorph*
5- *oak body*
Freedom (gain +10 move):
1- *dimension hop* (very handy to get into position or to get out of a grapple)
2- *hustle*
4- *fly*
5- teleport
fate:
2- clairvoyant
4- remote viewing
6- *precog, greater*
7- *fate of one*
conflict:
1- metaphys weapon
2- *lion's charge*
3- *dimension slide* (higher level powers I don't like)
guardian:
2- damp power
I like buffs and powers that give me mobility.
Protections are less of a priority, since the VoP-feat gives me lots of protections an my saves are okay anyway
Power I like of the ardent mantles:
natural world:
1- metaphyccal claw
2- *animal affinity*
4- *metamorph*
5- *oak body*
Freedom (gain +10 move):
1- *dimension hop* (very handy to get into position or to get out of a grapple)
2- *hustle*
4- *fly*
5- teleport
fate:
2- clairvoyant
4- remote viewing
6- *precog, greater*
7- *fate of one*
conflict:
1- metaphys weapon
2- *lion's charge*
3- *dimension slide* (higher level powers I don't like)
guardian:
2- damp power
I like buffs and powers that give me mobility.
Protections are less of a priority, since the VoP-feat gives me lots of protections an my saves are okay anyway
Where are the effective combat actions? I'm seeing... like zero in that power/feat/class selection.
it's nice to be able to choose....but what the heck are good *psionic* opponents that comne along more frequent than illithids.... when your campaign isn't used to psionics :D
If your campaign isn't going to be heavily psionic, you may as well ask if you could pick a non-psionic FE - I mean, the class has some Ranger-fluff after all. Dragons could be a flavourful and a good one. A mighty psionic warrior studying the means of defeating the mightiest creatures on Faerun.
Where are the effective combat actions? I'm seeing... like zero in that power/feat/class selection.
I'm not quite sure what you mean , but the buffs I like are
1- metaphyccal claw
2- *animal affinity*
4- *metamorph*
5- *oak body*
6- *precog, greater*
1- metaphys weapon
2- *lion's charge*
I'm sure the PW has better feat options. ... but I was only talking about powers. Give me the time to look into your suggestions for powers.
I appreciate your effort, but there's just so much new info you gave me. it takes me some time to proces it all (i have a busy job you know:D )
I'm not quite sure what you mean , but the buffs I like are
1- metaphyccal claw
2- *animal affinity*
4- *metamorph*
5- *oak body*
6- *precog, greater*
1- metaphys weapon
2- *lion's charge*
I'm sure the PW has better feat options. ... but I was only talking about powers. Give me the time to look into your suggestions for powers.
I appreciate your effort, but there's just so much new info you gave me. it takes me some time to proces it all (i have a busy job you know:D )
Every single one of those the psychic warrior gets (yes, he has the feats to grab metamorphasis and would be well to do so). Metaphysical weapon is a waste of time and pp when you have VoP. Greater precognition... is a massive waste of power points. Metaphysical claw is of course a waste of a power with VoP as well.
Every single one of those the psychic warrior gets (yes, he has the feats to grab metamorphasis and would be well to do so). Metaphysical weapon is a waste of time and pp when you have VoP. Greater precognition... is a massive waste of power points. Metaphysical claw is of course a waste of a power with VoP as well.
There's nothing wrong with a psychic warrior other than (1) higher level powers are delayed (e.g. Metamorphosis comes much later in the build than with an ardent) and (2) you don't have as many power points. But if you're not into manifesting a bunch of high level powers, it's a fine choice.
I like buffs and powers that give me mobility.
Frankly, I don't think you need a huge number of mobility powers if you have Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer:
- dimension door --> blink dog
- flight and lion's pounce --> griffon or sphinx
- etherealness --> phase spider (among others)
- freedom of movement --> spider eater
If you take Teleport, you should be set for mobility.
Every single one of those the psychic warrior gets (yes, he has the feats to grab metamorphasis and would be well to do so). Metaphysical weapon is a waste of time and pp when you have VoP. Greater precognition... is a massive waste of power points. Metaphysical claw is of course a waste of a power with VoP as well.
Man, you're really convinced that the PsW is superior, aren't you? I'm trying to make a good comparisson, so please help me....
PsW CON's
Monk4/Ardent2/Slayer10 = BAB 14 (we hardly get past level 15)
Monk2 /PsychWarr 14 = BAB 11
The PsW has lower powers and less PP. The Ardent list is limited, but okay.
PsW PRO's
Monk4/Ardent2/Slayer10 = --> 12 powers
Monk2 /PsychWarr 14 = --> 14 powers
The PsW has more (fighter) feats and more # of powers. ... and he can actually choose from a decent list
so, it seems ... that the extra feats kinda must do the trick for the PsW
(BTW, PsW powers I like: Bite of the Wolf, Expansion, Hustle, Strength of my enemy, Vampiric Blade, Dimension Slide, Psionic D Door, Oak body)
Frankly, I don't think you need a huge number of mobility powers if you have Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer:
* dimension door --> blink dog
* flight and lion's pounce --> griffon or sphinx
* etherealness --> phase spider (among others)
* freedom of movement --> spider eater
If you take Teleport, you should be set for mobility.
That's not what I mean. I wan't to be mobile without having to shapechange all the time. That woudl cost me a lot of PP. It means that i would like to 'hop' along the battlefield like the skirmisher the Monk is... and avoid to get hit as much as possible. Powers like 'dimension hop' and 'hustle' really add to that for a low (PP) price.
also Temporal Acceleration(combined with Extend Power) is ideal to Buff for combats
Freedom, Time, Natural World .... are great for Melee combat.... if you go Ardent 8 you get 2 more Mantles
i would choose these for my mantle selection:
Freedom
Natural World
Destruction
Time
Guardian
:D
That's not what I mean. I wan't to be mobile without having to shapechange all the time. That woudl cost me a lot of PP. It means that i would like to 'hop' along the battlefield like the skirmisher the Monk is... and avoid to get hit as much as possible. Powers like 'dimension hop' and 'hustle' really add to that for a low (PP) price.
I agree that Dimension Hop is a great power.
Man, you're really convinced that the PsW is superior, aren't you? I'm trying to make a good comparisson, so please help me....
PsW CON's
Monk4/Ardent2/Slayer10 = BAB 14 (we hardly get past level 15)
Monk2 /PsychWarr 14 = BAB 11
The PsW has lower powers and less PP. The Ardent list is limited, but okay.
PsW PRO's
Monk4/Ardent2/Slayer10 = --> 12 powers
Monk2 /PsychWarr 14 = --> 14 powers
The PsW has more (fighter) feats and more # of powers. ... and he can actually choose from a decent list
so, it seems ... that the extra feats kinda must do the trick for the PsW
(BTW, PsW powers I like: Bite of the Wolf, Expansion, Hustle, Strength of my enemy, Vampiric Blade, Dimension Slide, Psionic D Door, Oak body)
Well, you have full flurry progression and natural attacks, so bab isn't as big of a deal. PW gives a bunch of the powers you want and provides a *much* smoother progression from level 1 on. Basically look at how you would be playing at level 3 or 7.
edit: yup; 3rd link. its about 1/2 way down that page.
- Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8 (making the Ardent the Tashlatora class): Greater Flurry at 11th level
....since you need 11 levels of Monk to get greater Flurry (so Ardent9), but a 10th Ardent-level you get another BAB+ and another Mantle. You'll loose 2BAB compared to:
- Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10 /x4: better BAB, but Greater flurry at 15 level
Or take
- Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10 /x4: better BAB and Greater flurry at 13t level
maybe the latter is the best compromise, when you're serious about melee.
The PsW seems good too; it's just that I don't know yet what to do with it's fighter bonus feats: the powers are almost on-par with the Ardent build (when you look at it form a melee point of view) .... so the right feats could make the difference
BTW, I just heard that I'll be starting with this character form level 8.
When taking Ardent, these options could be nice
- Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8 (making the Ardent the Tashlatora class): Greater Flurry at 11th level
....since you need 11 levels of Monk to get greater Flurry (so Ardent9), but a 10th Ardent-level you get another BAB+ and another Mantle. You'll loose 2BAB compared to:
- Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10 /x4: better BAB, but Greater flurry at 15 level.
That's one of the reasons I recommend grappling for a monk. Losing a few points of BAB is not terribly important when you can get huge bonuses to your grapple check fairly easily. For instance, a level 2 monk/level 5 ardent (with Improved Grapple) metamorphed into a remorhaz has a grapple check of
+23 (+4 BAB, +7 Str, +8 size, +4 feat); Grip of Iron can increase that by another 4 or more points as well.
That's one of the reasons I recommend grappling for a monk. Losing a few points of BAB is not terribly important when you can get huge bonuses to your grapple check fairly easily. For instance, a level 2 monk/level 5 ardent (with Improved Grapple) metamorphed into a remorhaz has a grapple check of
+23 (+4 BAB, +7 Str, +8 size, +4 feat); Grip of Iron can increase that by another 4 or more points as well.
OKay, now I'm going to admit something that some optimisers won't like:
- I find grappling somewhat boring (actually my whole group does :D): hit and run would be more my style with this character
- I'd like to use the 'metamorph'-power to good effect, but I'd like it to be humanoid for the most part.... I like to keep the Monk feel to my character: If I'm metemorphed in all kinds of animals all the time, I think he (or I) would get a
personality-crisis.;)
It'll be a choice between Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8, Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10 /x4, Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10 /x4 or Monk2/Pswarr18 (I guess, I find the Psion-builds a bit too complex)
OKay, now I'm going to admit something that some optimisers won't like:
- I find grappling somewhat boring (actually my whole group does :D): hit and run would be more my style with this character
- I'd like to use the 'metamorph'-power to good effect, but I'd like it to be humanoid for the most part.... I like to keep the Monk feel to my character: If I'm metemorphed in all kinds of animals all the time, I think he (or I) would get a
personality-crisis.;)
Fair enough. Actually, lots of optimizers don't like grappling because it gets less useful over time (enemies get bigger or they get fancy magical defenses). I've had good experiences with it, though.
I don't know how grappling is any more boring than punching in general, especially if you add fancy abilities like Constrict, Rake, or Swallow Whole.
BTW, I just heard that I'll be starting with this character form level 8.
This.
I'm a bit busy today, but if someone could toss up the power selection at character level 8 for comparison for an ardent base we could decide which way to go.
Monk 2/Ardent 6
1st: Sacred Vow
Human: Vow of Poverty
Monk 1: Stunning Fist
Monk 2: Monastic Training
3rd: Tashalatora (Ardent), Mantles [Fate, Freedom]
4th: Mantle [Physical Power]
6th: Practiced Manifester
7th: Mantle [Natural World]
Lvl 1: Offensive Precognition, Dimension Hop, Vigor
Lvl 2: Clairvoyant Sense, Hustle
Lvl 4: Metamorphosis, (Remote Viewing or Animal Affinity)
[mantles: freedom , Natural World and ...
Chaos=inconstant location (very handy, but not really the theme for a monk)
Conflict=dimension slide, lions charge (this mantle is mostly for lower levels)
Fate=precognition greater, fate of one 9there seems to be some debate over it's effectiveness)
Destruction=distegrate, ultrablast (not really monk-like, but very effective)
Time=temporal acceleration (I think this power is overrated since you can't attack with melee and you don't that many buffs or no potions to take)]
With Practiced manifester the powers could be
1: dimension hop
2: hustle, animal affinity (lions charge)
3: (dimension slide)
4: fly, metamorph
5: teleport, oak body
6: evade burst (inconstant location, precognition, disintegrate)
7: (fate of one, ultrablast)
Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8
at 8th level: BAB +5
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 4/4/3/2/1/1
Greater Flurry at 11th level
Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10 /x4
at 8th level: BAB +6
powerlevels at 8th(with PractManif at 6th): 4/4/3/2/1/1
Greater Flurry at 15th level
Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10 /x4
at 8th level: BAB +6
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 4/3/3/1
Greater Flurry at 13th level
Monk2/Pswarr18
at 8th level: BAB +5
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): ../../.../../
Greater Flurry at 11th level
I've done this in a hurry, so it might have some errors.
Yeah, PW is better at this level.
Expansion, bite of the wolf, something
Hustle, psionic Lion's pounce, detect hostile intent
Feats: Go for lockdown. Next level you get two size catagories. Basically go for pole master and standstill (don't bother with getting thicket of blades).
*looks at ardent powers and feats*
Yeah, PW is better at this level.
Expansion, bite of the wolf, something
Hustle, psionic Lion's pounce, detect hostile intent
Feats: Go for lockdown. Next level you get two size catagories. Basically go for pole master and standstill (don't bother with getting thicket of blades).
That's a fine build (although a little light on power points), but the original poster said he wanted versatility.
That's a fine build (although a little light on power points), but the original poster said he wanted versatility.
Detect hostile intent? Diminsional Hop and metamorphasis do not versatility make. If you want versatility you should be using a psion base to start with.
Detect hostile intent? Diminsional Hop and metamorphasis do not versatility make. If you want versatility you should be using a psion base to start with.
Metamorphosis doesn't give you versatility?!
I agree that a psion would be more versatile, of course.
Metamorphosis doesn't give you versatility?!
I agree that a psion would be more versatile, of course.
Metamorphasis is polymorph, but better... I really don't like using it for debate because just about everyone can get access to it.
It'll probably be a character form 8th till 15th level:
[mantles: freedom , Natural World and ...
Chaos=inconstant location (very handy, but not really the theme for a monk)
Conflict=dimension slide, lions charge (this mantle is mostly for lower levels)
Fate=precognition greater, fate of one 9there seems to be some debate over it's effectiveness)
Destruction=distegrate, ultrablast (not really monk-like, but very effective)
Time=temporal acceleration (I think this power is overrated since you can't attack with melee and you don't that many buffs or no potions to take)]
With Practiced manifester the powers could be
1: dimension hop
2: hustle, animal affinity (lions charge)
3: (dimension slide)
4: fly, metamorph
5: teleport, oak body
6: evade burst (inconstant location, precognition, disintegrate)
7: (fate of one, ultrablast)
Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8
at 8th level: BAB +5
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 4/4/3/2/1/1
Greater Flurry at 11th level
Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10 /x4
at 8th level: BAB +6
powerlevels at 8th(with PractManif at 6th): 4/4/3/2/1/1
Greater Flurry at 15th level
Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10 /x4
at 8th level: BAB +6
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 4/3/3/1
Greater Flurry at 13th level
Monk2/Pswarr18
at 8th level: BAB +5
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): ../../.../../
Greater Flurry at 11th level
I've done this in a hurry, so it might have some errors.
I've done some calculations at it will be:
Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8
at 8th level: BAB +5
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 4/4/3/2/1/1 (7 powers)
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 3th): 4/4/3/3/2/2
Greater Flurry at 11th level
Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10 /x4
at 8th level: BAB +6
powerlevels at 8th(with PractManif at 6th): 4/3/2/1/1 (6 powers)
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 3th): 4/3/3/2/2
Greater Flurry at 15th level
Monk 4/ Ardent 2/ Slayer 10 /x4
at 8th level: BAB +6
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 4/3/1 (4 powers)
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 3th): 4/3/3
Greater Flurry at 13th level
Monk2/Pswarr18
at 8th level: BAB +5
powerlevels at 8th (with PractManif at 6th): 2/2/2/1/1/1 (6 powers)
Greater Flurry at 11th level
The build Monk2/Ardent10/Slayer8 seems the most promising. I might even forgo levels of Slayer-PrC, when taking this build: not good for my BAB, but i save another feat-slot (Track)
mantles:
1st: natural world, freedom
2nd: Conflict
3rd: fate
some news: I have my DM's persmission to swap my (bonus) 'exhalted feats' for 'incarnum feats' if I like. The feats would be:
2: Nymphs Kiss
4: INtuitive attack (wis fo attack)
6: shape soulmeld: sphinx claws
8: open shakra (hands) -- > GAIN POUNCE !!
10: shape soulmeld: Phase cloak
12: open shakra (shoulders) -- > BECOME ETHEREAL WHEN MOVING AT LEAST 10ft !!
14: etc
THis will make my Monk really mobile and a true skirmisher
Sounds good! Let us know how the character works out.
THanks !
The monk2/ardent10 seems (please do comment) the best way for the coming levels. THe BAB I loose by taking more levels of Ardent after, I will 'gain' by getting Greater Flurry at an earlier level.
At 12th level I might reconsider what I'll do: do Slayer or continue Ardent.
But I'm open to your comments.
THanks !
The monk2/ardent10 seems (please do comment) the best way for the coming levels. THe BAB I loose by taking more levels of Ardent after, I will 'gain' by getting Greater Flurry at an earlier level.
At 12th level I might reconsider what I'll do: do Slayer or continue Ardent.
But I'm open to your comments.
Or Monk2/Ardent1/Monk3/Ardent8/Slayer9, wit Praticed Manifester at 3rd (hence the swithch): this way you won't loose a point of BAB between Ardent8 en Ardent 9 and still have Greater Flurry at 11th character level.
Chaos=inconstant location (very handy, but not really the theme for a monk)
Conflict=dimension slide, lions charge (this mantle is mostly for lower levels)
Fate=precognition greater, fate of one 9there seems to be some debate over it's effectiveness)
Destruction=distegrate, ultrablast (not really monk-like, but very effective)
Time=temporal acceleration (I think this power is overrated since you can't attack with melee and you don't that many buffs or no potions to take)]
With Practiced manifester the powers could be
1: dimension hop
2: hustle, animal affinity (lions charge)
3: (dimension slide)
4: fly, metamorph
5: teleport, oak body
6: evade burst (inconstant location, precognition, disintegrate)
7: (fate of one, ultrablast)
the reason i'm thinking about the mantles Conflict and Fate:
- Conflict will giove me a very handy 3rd level power (the only one) and weapon focus
- Fate wil give me a boost (precognotion) I might need as a monk and 'fate of one' is very handy
- "inconstant location" (chaos mantle) is indeed very handy, but the downside is that you need to teleport at the *beginning* of you turn: I much rather charge an opponent while ethereal (souldmeld, see above), pounce (soulmeld) and thén teleport away through 'dimension hop' or run away ethereal with 'hustle' (both swift actions): this will make me the true hit-and-run monk
- I think this power 'temporal acceleration' (time mantle) is overrated, since you can't attack with melee-attacks and you don't have that many buffs or no potions to take: so that extra fullround is limited in it's use. That's how I read it.
Or Monk2/Ardent1/Monk3/Ardent8/Slayer9, wit Praticed Manifester at 3rd (hence the swithch): this way you won't loose a point of BAB between Ardent8 en Ardent 9 and still have Greater Flurry at 11th character level.
I'd rather have an extra level of Ardent than a level of Monk (especially Monk 3, which doesn't really give you anything other than Still Mind). One point of BAB either way won't make or break you (IMO).
the reason i'm thinking about the mantles Conflict and Fate:
- Conflict will giove me a very handy 3rd level power (the only one) and weapon focus
- Fate wil give me a boost (precognotion) I might need as a monk and 'fate of one' is very handy
- "inconstant location" (chaos mantle) is indeed very handy, but the downside is that you need to teleport at the *beginning* of you turn: I much rather charge an opponent while ethereal (souldmeld, see above), pounce (soulmeld) and thén teleport away through 'dimension hop' or run away ethereal with 'hustle' (both swift actions): this will make me the true hit-and-run monk
- I think this power 'temporal acceleration' (time mantle) is overrated, since you can't attack with melee-attacks and you don't have that many buffs or no potions to take: so that extra fullround is limited in it's use. That's how I read it.
- Why do you need Dimension Slide (the 3rd level Conflict power) when you have Dimension Hop?
- Temporal Acceleration gives you a few rounds of free buffing (which you'll need with your fairly low BAB).
- I agree that some of the Fate mantle powers are not bad (Offensive Precognition, Clairvoyant Sense, maybe Remote Viewing and Fate of One
as for Shapes.... for combat:
6 HD
Bladerager Troll.... great Str,Dex,Con, Nat armor
9 HD
Cave Troll .... as Bladerage troll+ Pounce, Rend, Imp Grab
14HD
Wartroll ...... as above but better, and Faster
as a 8th level character, I'm taking the Bladerager Troll shape. I'm trying to find out if I get this right.
The TRoll has
- 2 claw attack for +12 ... and Rend
- one bite attack for +10 (just -2 penalty, for he has 'multi attack')
when a Monk get's into this shape and uses his Flurry of Blows ability, his attacks would be:
- 3 claw attacks for +11 ...and Rend
- one bite attack for +9
Am I right? (this is really awesome)