Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gryffydd Mar 17, 2008 23:42:21	ECL 20, no buyoff, Abilities are elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). Standard 760,000 gp allowance for level 20 character. No spells. Period. I managed 48. I'm sure you guys can do better ;)
#2 voran_illezou Mar 18, 2008 0:16:14	What is buyoff?
#3 voran_illezou Mar 18, 2008 0:34:08	Well, with just purchasing items I was able to get it to 64, with feats it goes up to 80. Thats with the DMG, MIC, Complete Warrior, PHB, and ToB.
#4 gryffydd Mar 18, 2008 1:22:34	Could you maybe list what you're using? I haven't been able to get past 55 (Though I could conceivably get another 5 with an off hand defending weapon)
#5 neraagile Mar 18, 2008 5:57:02	What is buyoff? Buyoff is for LA, its a Unearthed Arcana variant that allows you to spend xp to reduce your LA (and thus your ECL). Also listing things are a very good idea, btw is BoED allowed :P ?
#6 gryffydd Mar 18, 2008 6:15:58	The only things I know for certain are allowed are the SRD, the Complete X series, the Book of Nine Swords, and the Magic Item Compendium. Feel free to use whatever you like though, I'm mostly just trolling for ideas, I can pick and choose what if anything I'll be using myself ;) I've managed to get my total to 70 now ;D Well, 66. 70 if I can slip in a custom continuous psionic universal item.
#7 tshern Mar 18, 2008 8:57:45	Any of you used Skin of Proteus yet?
#8 gryffydd Mar 18, 2008 9:27:50	I had not, no. Good find. I'm not sure I want to descend into shapechanging cheese though lol
#9 ChristopherGroves Mar 18, 2008 9:31:50	How does your DM rule Monk/Ninja/Swordsage interaction?
#10 amadithegreat Mar 18, 2008 9:33:37	You're meaning straight out Swordsage? Are dips allowed? Tortle race Allowed? It gives +2 wis and +3 Natural armor with 20ft speed and some penalties to cha.. Moon-Touched Ranger 2 / Ninja 1 / Swordsage 2. Wis: 15+5(Levels)+2(Racial)+6(Item)+5(Inherent)= 33 (+11) Means +33 to AC Dex: 14+6(Item)+5(Inherent) = 25 (+7) Means +7 to AC +5 Deflection, +5 Natural, +5 Armor, +5 Sacred bonus items to AC.. = 70 Now, as there is no mention - Combat Expertise. The character in question takes last 15 levels in something with full BaB. Normal/Improved combat expertises allow him to take -17 to hit for +17 to AC. Then he fights with one of the swords from Complete Adventurer for +2 more (Only on defensive..) = 89 Dodge Feat. = 90 That didn't even take effort yet, i'm almost 100% sure i could reach 100. EDIT: And i forgot the +3 natural base from Tortle. = 93 EDIT: Use bracers of armor +8 instead of +5. That's 3 more. = 96 EDIT: Instead of one level in that BaB class, take 1 level of monk and get Kung-Fu genius for int bonus to AC, after that take 5 levels of Invisible Blade for up to +5 int bonus to AC. INT: 13+6(Item)+1(Inherent): 20 + 5 So, that's +10, but we lose one for the BaB/Defensive thing.. = 105
#11 gryffydd Mar 18, 2008 10:54:23	I don't think I'm allowed to have the character have +5 inherent bonuses at creation ;)
#12 voran_illezou Mar 18, 2008 11:41:22	Wis: 15+5(Levels)+2(Racial)+6(Item)+5(Inherent)= 33 (+11) Means +33 to AC Also, If you take Invisible Blade, you can't use the Broadblade Shortsword with the class ability. That would be +11 to AC, not +33. So, here's just general items I used: +5 Mithril Chain Shirt of Nimbleness, +5 Defending Defensive Surge Daggers(x2), Dusty Rose Ioun Stone, Deep Red Ioun Stone, Incandescent Blue Ioun Stone, Tome of Understanding +5, Manual of Quickness of Action +5, Bracers of Armor +8, Ring of Protection +5 (x2), Cloak of Thorns, Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Tome of Clear Thought +5, Headband of Intellect +6, Iound Stone that gives +2 Int Wisdom: 15+5(Level bonus)+5(ToU)+2(IBIS)=27(+8) Dexterity: 14+5(MoQoA)+6(GoD)+2(DRIS)=27(+8) Intelligence: 13+5+6+2+2=28(+8) AC:10(Base)+5(Natural)+8(Wisdom)+8(Dex)+8(BoA)+10(Defending)+4(2BBSS)+9(Armor)+1(DRIS)+2(CoT)+10(RoPx2)=75 (Human Swordsage 20) With Feats: 74+15(ImpCE)+1(Dodge)=91 Now to work on the class/racial options. Gray Elf Swordsage 2/Warblade 2/Fighter 2/Eternal Blade 6/Invisible Blade 5/ Add Int to AC from Eternal Blade: 99. Subtract Broadblade bonus: 95. Invisible Blade Bonus: 100. Defensive Surge: 104. Buy Skin of the Defender: 108 Swap out the Ring of Protections for 2 Ring of Avoidances, activate them at the same time: 148. :D
#13 pilgrimage Mar 18, 2008 11:41:55	Dodge feat gives you +1 AC vs 1 opponent. Boost your Wisdom and Dexterity as much as possible. I believe in Complete Arcane there are a set of robes called Dyrr's robes of *Invulnerability*, something to that effect, that give +8 or 9 armor bonus. Two defending weapons bonuses stack, combat expertise allows you to add part of your BAB to AC as a dodge. One thing you will want to do, because it seems you are trying to create a tanking swordsage, is to get Uncanny Dodge from some source so that you are not flatfooted. I think that a PrC in the BO9S, E-something Blade, gives you that effect. Aside from that, +5 Ammy of Natural Armor, and +5 Ring of Deflection. If you go small size you will get an extra +1 AC, and Savage Species has a ring of shrinking which will net you another +2 Dex and +1 Size bonus to AC (a total of +2 AC) If you allow Book of Exalted Deeds and add in the Saint Template for a paltry +2 LA, you also get Wisdom to Inherent AC bonus. So if you already have a great Wisdom bonus, you get it to AC x2, and inherent counts across the board (FF, AC, TAC).
#14 pilgrimage Mar 18, 2008 11:48:07	Ring of Protection x2? Why deflection bonuses DO NOT stack. He also said no inherent bonuses at creation. Not to mention that character would lose tons of valuable Initiator Levels (11 for both Swordsage and Warblade), limiting the maneuvers available to you incredibly. I mean, thats the whole reason for going swordsage right? Tons of maneuvers. If it was just to get Wis to AC, be a monk....
#15 voran_illezou Mar 18, 2008 12:04:54	So the 2 Rings of Avoidance wouldn't stack?
#16 pilgrimage Mar 18, 2008 14:55:45	Bracers of Armor do not stack with Mithral Chain shirt, they are both armor bonuses. Ioun stones that give enhancement bonuses to stats do not stack with enhancement bonuses from items like Headband of Intellect, gloves of dex, etc. Do you even understand the rules that govern stacking?
#17 amadithegreat Mar 20, 2008 9:44:51	That would be +11 to AC, not +33. Wrong, you get: Wis to AC from Swordsage (Doesn't stack with Monk.) Wis to AC from Ninja (Doesn't stack with Monk.) Wis to AC from Moon-Touched Ranger (Stacks with everything as written.) Therefore, 3x Wis to AC.
#18 playswithfire Mar 20, 2008 10:06:25	One could, and probably would, argue that since swordsage doesn't stack with monk and ninja doesn't stack with monk, that swordsage doesn't stack with ninja either. Particularly when, as I understand it, the reason the ones that don't stack don't stack is that they have the same name and use the same stat. Monk=Ninja, Monk=Swordsage so Ninja=Swordsage in this respect. You are correct that, since the Ranger variant has a different name, it would technically stack with either of the others, but the other two would not stack with each other, unless I've missed something.
#19 repeekluos Mar 20, 2008 10:36:56	Where is moon-touched ranger from?
#20 playswithfire Mar 20, 2008 10:47:18	I think he means moon-warded ranger from Dragon 340; also available on crystal keep
#21 repeekluos Mar 20, 2008 12:13:41	Thanks much.