Challenge: Topple the Untrammeled - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Challenge: Topple the Untrammeled

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Endarire
Mar 07, 2009 0:54:43 [color=purple]The Goal[/color]
Make an ECL20 character to kill or otherwise incapacitate the Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion so it can no longer act.

[color=purple]The Conditions[/color]
-You begin as an ECL20 character (190,000 XP) with all appropriate stats. You have 760,000 gold to spend as you see fit.
-No infinite or nearly infinite loops are allowed. Pun-Pun could easily crush the titan, but Pun-Pun can do anything!
-All 3.5 WotC material is allowed, along with anything 3.0 that hasn't been updated. Use the latest errata or latest version for everything.
-No epic spells for either of you.
-The titan always has a caster level equal to his current hit dice. This overrides the creature entry.
-If you can reduce the titan to -18,350 HP, you win automatically.

[color=purple]The Battlefield[/color]
Assume you know exactly where the titan will be before you fight it and have the means to transport yourself an arbitrary distance away from it immediately preceding the fight without spending actions, gold, XP, or other resources. You know the titan knows you're coming and both of you have an artibrary amount of time to prepare before entering the battlefield. The titan and you can't affect each other outside this battlefield.

The battlefield is infinitely long, wide, and high, but its ground is entirely flat and solid. The atmosphere is not breathable.

[color=purple]Bonus Points[/color]
-Survive.

[color=purple]Warnings[/color]
-The titan can cast wish at will with a CL equal to its HD.
-It's immune to time stop, alignment-based effects like holy word, and just about every status effect available.
-Whenever you deal damage to it, you take an equal amount of damage.
-All effects have a 25% success rate assuming you bypass other defenses such as AC and miss chance from spells.
-It always goes first on every round and gets 2 rounds of actions every round on its turn.
-Assume it has every buff on it as a permanent effect when you meet it.

[color=purple]Recommendations[/color]
-Abuse greater celerity for all it's worth.
-Use a Ruby Knight Vindicator's Divine Impetus and shapechange into a Chronotyryn (Fiend Folio) and a Choker to stand a chance.
-Use surge of fortune (Complete Champion) coupled with inspiration from The Mailman.
-Pray.
#2
phaedrusxy
Mar 07, 2009 1:18:44 What kind of damage is it even vulnerable to? I guess if you had Piercing Cold or the fire version, you could do fire or cold damage to it, but you'd also do that much damage to yourself. So you'd have to have regeneration and the ability to still function when you'd taken a ton of non-lethal. I remember there are spells for that, but I forget the name(s?).

Being "immune to Time Stop" is stupid, also. That just means it can't cast Time Stop on itself. WotC made the same mistake with an earlier writeup of Elminster.

So yeah, I think to beat this you'll have to come up with some kind of insane super-nova build, maybe using Affinity Field from psionics + Searing Spell to get some kind of crazy feedback loop of damage going, combined with Time Stop and I guess Delay Spell, and regeneration and a way to still function after you've taken 20,000+ non-lethal damage. The crazy thing is it is actually probably doable. :D
#3
Endarire
Mar 07, 2009 1:22:31 You need to do 36,700 damage to it to 'kill' it. If you could somehow bypass its SR and ensure you affected it with a spell, you could use movement impairing effects on it, though I fail to see the point.
#4
keithio
Mar 07, 2009 2:10:20 Can I encounter the entire host, and when 2 of them both find that they need to act first and spontaneous stop not existing as a result claim victory?

EDIT - Or that just means that they get infinite actions as soon as combat begins, which is an infinite amount of time before I die. So as far as the rest of the universe is concerned we wiped each other out in a temporal draw.
#5
tshern
Mar 07, 2009 5:05:47 I already killed it once.

Here is how it works: Be a Wu Jen Spellguard of the Silverymoon. Teleport next to the Titan and use precast Surge of Fortune/Wish/Miracle to land a touch attack on the creature. This touch attack will be Transcend mortality, a 9th level Wu Je spell from Complete Mage, that you can now cast as a touch attack because of your Spellguard of the Silverymoon levels. Now the Titan has the spell in question and you use a standard action to dismiss the spell and it dies.
#6
phaedrusxy
Mar 07, 2009 10:43:19
You need to do 36,700 damage to it to 'kill' it. If you could somehow bypass its SR and ensure you affected it with a spell, you could use movement impairing effects on it, though I fail to see the point.

There are nova builds that you have to use special math to even write the amount of damage they can do, and spells like the Orbs that ignore SR. Combine that with the elements I mentioned, and you should be able to blast the thing down into the negative tens of thousands of damage in a round and then toss out a Wish, too.

Hitting a >200 touch AC might be a problem, though... and Affinity Field allows SR and a Fort save, so that won't work, either. Hmm...

Edit: Got it. Masochism + Delay Death + Beastlands Ferocity. Add this to a nova build that can do enough damage to kill this thing. First nuke yourself to get a crazy high attack bonus from Masochism, then nuke this thing, and Wish it dead.

This is one such build that can do enough damage. It should be able to pull the rest of it off with enough Limited (and normal) Wishes.

Afterwards, you die, but a Contingent Revivify can fix that. :D
#7
lormador
Mar 07, 2009 10:44:07 I use a Simulacrum to create a copy of the Titan. The copy then deals 1 point of damage to the original. Or the original deals 1 damage to the copy, which would perhaps be more amusing.
#8
tshern
Mar 07, 2009 11:55:24 Is there something fundamentally wrong with my approach?
#9
phaedrusxy
Mar 07, 2009 12:17:06
Is there something fundamentally wrong with my approach?

I don't think so. Lormador's approach is pretty funny, too. He should include how to get a CL of 50, but I'm totally sure that can be achieved with Red Wizard cheese, or something.
#10
arogenith
Mar 07, 2009 12:35:50 before your first action, you need to survive to wishes of "I wish he dies"? or 2k permanent damage, no save? Sounds kinda lame sauce, how would the hulking hurler go up against it?
#11
phaedrusxy
Mar 07, 2009 12:43:20
before your first action, you need to survive to wishes of "I wish he dies"?

Where is that at?
or 2k permanent damage, no save?

The spell combo I listed would survive that, assuming permanent damage is lost when you die and are ressurected. Even if it isn't, it could still last long enough to kill him.
Sounds kinda lame sauce, how would the hulking hurler go up against it?

Depends on which version... If you're not a spellcaster, you're just going to die as soon as the fight starts, unless you can at least use a wand of Celerity.
#12
tshern
Mar 07, 2009 14:51:47
I don't think so. Lormador's approach is pretty funny, too. He should include how to get a CL of 50, but I'm totally sure that can be achieved with Red Wizard cheese, or something.

Not to mention stacking Consumptive fields. That should do it and it would also increase to hit and damage if those are needed for some reason.
#13
quiet1mi
Mar 07, 2009 15:59:24 ummm..... Summon [Bigger Fish] ?
#14
lormador
Mar 07, 2009 18:23:28 Indeed, Red Wizard brings caster level to 40 through Circle Magic.... then we only need 10 more from a Consumptive Field.

I read Transcend Mortality over and over... there's no Spell Resistance entry for this spell, and don't a lot of buffs have "Yes(harmless)" for that field? Other than that I think it would work.
#15
phoenix00
Mar 07, 2009 20:14:24
Indeed, Red Wizard brings caster level to 40 through Circle Magic.... then we only need 10 more from a Consumptive Field.

I read Transcend Mortality over and over... there's no Spell Resistance entry for this spell, and don't a lot of buffs have "Yes(harmless)" for that field? Other than that I think it would work.

I thought Red Wizard allows you to do up to +40 bonus to caster level. Thus if you have a caster level of 20 or 23 or so it will be a total of 60-63.
#16
malkavon
Mar 07, 2009 20:40:01
I thought Red Wizard allows you to do up to +40 bonus to caster level. Thus if you have a caster level of 20 or 23 or so it will be a total of 60-63.

Circle Magic allows you to raise your CL to a maximum of 40. So a Wizard 10/Red Wizard 10 can raise his CL by 20 with Circle Magic (giving him CL 40), but a Wizard 30/Red Wizard 10 wouldn't be able to improve his CL at all with Circle Magic. Now, you can apply Circle Magic's CL boost before others, so you can take advantage of it and then stack on ioun stones, rings, etc, but it's not just a flat +40.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Mar 07, 2009 0:54:43	[color=purple]The Goal[/color] Make an ECL20 character to kill or otherwise incapacitate the Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion so it can no longer act. [color=purple]The Conditions[/color] -You begin as an ECL20 character (190,000 XP) with all appropriate stats. You have 760,000 gold to spend as you see fit. -No infinite or nearly infinite loops are allowed. Pun-Pun could easily crush the titan, but Pun-Pun can do anything! -All 3.5 WotC material is allowed, along with anything 3.0 that hasn't been updated. Use the latest errata or latest version for everything. -No epic spells for either of you. -The titan always has a caster level equal to his current hit dice. This overrides the creature entry. -If you can reduce the titan to -18,350 HP, you win automatically. [color=purple]The Battlefield[/color] Assume you know exactly where the titan will be before you fight it and have the means to transport yourself an arbitrary distance away from it immediately preceding the fight without spending actions, gold, XP, or other resources. You know the titan knows you're coming and both of you have an artibrary amount of time to prepare before entering the battlefield. The titan and you can't affect each other outside this battlefield. The battlefield is infinitely long, wide, and high, but its ground is entirely flat and solid. The atmosphere is not breathable. [color=purple]Bonus Points[/color] -Survive. [color=purple]Warnings[/color] -The titan can cast wish at will with a CL equal to its HD. -It's immune to time stop, alignment-based effects like holy word, and just about every status effect available. -Whenever you deal damage to it, you take an equal amount of damage. -All effects have a 25% success rate assuming you bypass other defenses such as AC and miss chance from spells. -It always goes first on every round and gets 2 rounds of actions every round on its turn. -Assume it has every buff on it as a permanent effect when you meet it. [color=purple]Recommendations[/color] -Abuse greater celerity for all it's worth. -Use a Ruby Knight Vindicator's Divine Impetus and shapechange into a Chronotyryn (Fiend Folio) and a Choker to stand a chance. -Use surge of fortune (Complete Champion) coupled with inspiration from The Mailman. -Pray.
#2 phaedrusxy Mar 07, 2009 1:18:44	What kind of damage is it even vulnerable to? I guess if you had Piercing Cold or the fire version, you could do fire or cold damage to it, but you'd also do that much damage to yourself. So you'd have to have regeneration and the ability to still function when you'd taken a ton of non-lethal. I remember there are spells for that, but I forget the name(s?). Being "immune to Time Stop" is stupid, also. That just means it can't cast Time Stop on itself. WotC made the same mistake with an earlier writeup of Elminster. So yeah, I think to beat this you'll have to come up with some kind of insane super-nova build, maybe using Affinity Field from psionics + Searing Spell to get some kind of crazy feedback loop of damage going, combined with Time Stop and I guess Delay Spell, and regeneration and a way to still function after you've taken 20,000+ non-lethal damage. The crazy thing is it is actually probably doable. :D
#3 Endarire Mar 07, 2009 1:22:31	You need to do 36,700 damage to it to 'kill' it. If you could somehow bypass its SR and ensure you affected it with a spell, you could use movement impairing effects on it, though I fail to see the point.
#4 keithio Mar 07, 2009 2:10:20	Can I encounter the entire host, and when 2 of them both find that they need to act first and spontaneous stop not existing as a result claim victory? EDIT - Or that just means that they get infinite actions as soon as combat begins, which is an infinite amount of time before I die. So as far as the rest of the universe is concerned we wiped each other out in a temporal draw.
#5 tshern Mar 07, 2009 5:05:47	I already killed it once. Here is how it works: Be a Wu Jen Spellguard of the Silverymoon. Teleport next to the Titan and use precast Surge of Fortune/Wish/Miracle to land a touch attack on the creature. This touch attack will be Transcend mortality, a 9th level Wu Je spell from Complete Mage, that you can now cast as a touch attack because of your Spellguard of the Silverymoon levels. Now the Titan has the spell in question and you use a standard action to dismiss the spell and it dies.
#6 phaedrusxy Mar 07, 2009 10:43:19	You need to do 36,700 damage to it to 'kill' it. If you could somehow bypass its SR and ensure you affected it with a spell, you could use movement impairing effects on it, though I fail to see the point. There are nova builds that you have to use special math to even write the amount of damage they can do, and spells like the Orbs that ignore SR. Combine that with the elements I mentioned, and you should be able to blast the thing down into the negative tens of thousands of damage in a round and then toss out a Wish, too. Hitting a >200 touch AC might be a problem, though... and Affinity Field allows SR and a Fort save, so that won't work, either. Hmm... Edit: Got it. Masochism + Delay Death + Beastlands Ferocity. Add this to a nova build that can do enough damage to kill this thing. First nuke yourself to get a crazy high attack bonus from Masochism, then nuke this thing, and Wish it dead. This is one such build that can do enough damage. It should be able to pull the rest of it off with enough Limited (and normal) Wishes. Afterwards, you die, but a Contingent Revivify can fix that. :D
#7 lormador Mar 07, 2009 10:44:07	I use a Simulacrum to create a copy of the Titan. The copy then deals 1 point of damage to the original. Or the original deals 1 damage to the copy, which would perhaps be more amusing.
#8 tshern Mar 07, 2009 11:55:24	Is there something fundamentally wrong with my approach?
#9 phaedrusxy Mar 07, 2009 12:17:06	Is there something fundamentally wrong with my approach? I don't think so. Lormador's approach is pretty funny, too. He should include how to get a CL of 50, but I'm totally sure that can be achieved with Red Wizard cheese, or something.
#10 arogenith Mar 07, 2009 12:35:50	before your first action, you need to survive to wishes of "I wish he dies"? or 2k permanent damage, no save? Sounds kinda lame sauce, how would the hulking hurler go up against it?
#11 phaedrusxy Mar 07, 2009 12:43:20	before your first action, you need to survive to wishes of "I wish he dies"? Where is that at? or 2k permanent damage, no save? The spell combo I listed would survive that, assuming permanent damage is lost when you die and are ressurected. Even if it isn't, it could still last long enough to kill him. Sounds kinda lame sauce, how would the hulking hurler go up against it? Depends on which version... If you're not a spellcaster, you're just going to die as soon as the fight starts, unless you can at least use a wand of Celerity.
#12 tshern Mar 07, 2009 14:51:47	I don't think so. Lormador's approach is pretty funny, too. He should include how to get a CL of 50, but I'm totally sure that can be achieved with Red Wizard cheese, or something. Not to mention stacking Consumptive fields. That should do it and it would also increase to hit and damage if those are needed for some reason.
#13 quiet1mi Mar 07, 2009 15:59:24	ummm..... Summon [Bigger Fish] ?
#14 lormador Mar 07, 2009 18:23:28	Indeed, Red Wizard brings caster level to 40 through Circle Magic.... then we only need 10 more from a Consumptive Field. I read Transcend Mortality over and over... there's no Spell Resistance entry for this spell, and don't a lot of buffs have "Yes(harmless)" for that field? Other than that I think it would work.
#15 phoenix00 Mar 07, 2009 20:14:24	Indeed, Red Wizard brings caster level to 40 through Circle Magic.... then we only need 10 more from a Consumptive Field. I read Transcend Mortality over and over... there's no Spell Resistance entry for this spell, and don't a lot of buffs have "Yes(harmless)" for that field? Other than that I think it would work. I thought Red Wizard allows you to do up to +40 bonus to caster level. Thus if you have a caster level of 20 or 23 or so it will be a total of 60-63.
#16 malkavon Mar 07, 2009 20:40:01	I thought Red Wizard allows you to do up to +40 bonus to caster level. Thus if you have a caster level of 20 or 23 or so it will be a total of 60-63. Circle Magic allows you to raise your CL to a maximum of 40. So a Wizard 10/Red Wizard 10 can raise his CL by 20 with Circle Magic (giving him CL 40), but a Wizard 30/Red Wizard 10 wouldn't be able to improve his CL at all with Circle Magic. Now, you can apply Circle Magic's CL boost before others, so you can take advantage of it and then stack on ioun stones, rings, etc, but it's not just a flat +40.