thoughts on a light armored Champion of corellon? i know that 2 of its abilities hinge on medium and heavy armor but...
im thinking a lot of things right now, but the main one going thru my head is this:
swordsage 4/ranger 4/champion 2+
this would give me wisdom to ac in light armor, and weapon focus (needed as a prereq for Champion), plus maneuvers, and wis to damage whilst using strikes from said maneuvers. also combat style, enduance, and a lil animal companion! lol. im tired, this might not be a good build at all
the other one i made which rocked was ranger 1/pally 6, champion 2+.
any thoughts at all? limiting it to only 1 level of ranger means i can still use heavy armor without a worry. just not sure how great favored enemy is.
if you could add 1 or 2 levels of anything to 6 of pally (for the purpose of switching into champion), what would they be?
Wood Elf seems the best entry for this .... but i would do it like this:
Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Swordsage 3/ Champion of Corellon 2
the entry reqs for Champion of Corellon are tough, thats why the fighter levels are there .....
an Alternate Build is this:
Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 2/ Swordsage 3/ Champion of Corellon 2 .... this gives Str+Dex+Int to Damage with Finnessable weapons(Elven Courtblade is a Great pick(2 handed weapon that is Finnessable))
I assume you're planning to use shadow blade so you get dex to damage twice.
Snow elf (Frostburn) gets +2 dex and -2 cha instead of +2 dex and -2 con. I think it's one of the best elves for melee. You could also use wild elf (MM), but the penalty to int makes it hard to qualify for combat expertise.
Since you will presumably have dex as your main ability, I don't think the ranger's ability to ignore the dex requirement for two-weapon fighting is very beneficial to you. I don't see much value in endurance. Your animal companion is going to be little better than a standard animal of its kind.
If you can use it, the exoticist variant fighter (Dragon 310) trades martial weapon proficiency for proficiency with 4 exotic weapons. You could gain proficiency with the elven coutblade, elven lightblade, and elven thinblade, which seems to suit the concept.
Light feycraft weapons (DMGII) let you use dex instead of str on attack rolls, so you might be able to skip weapon finesse. Gloves of the balanced hands (Magic of Faerun) give you improved two-weapon fighting if you already have two-weapon fighting, so you might be able to skip that feat as well.
the hit to Int is not bad at all for a lot of Melee builds .... especially if they are Finnesse Fighters(Dex based, usually TWF builds)
Paladin of Freedom (Holy Warrior ACF) 4/Fighter 3/Champion of Corellon 10/Dread Commando 3
Ranger (Champion of The Wild & Distracting Attack ACF's) 4/Fighter 3/Champion of Corellon 10/Dread Commando 3
Feats break down pretty much the same way:
1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Courtblade)
3 - Weapon Finesse
4 - Combat Expertise (If Ranger), Mounted Combat (If Paladin) (Bonus Feat)
5 - Dodge
6 - Mounted Combat (If Ranger), Combat Expertise (If Paladin), Power Attack
8 - Mobility (Bonus Feat
9 - Open Feat
11 - Spring Attack (Bonus Feat)
12 - Open Feat
14 - Bounding Assault
15 - Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade)
17 - Sense Weakness (Bonus Feat)
18 - Rapid Blitz
Dread Commando was selected to help pad the Reflex save a bit more. Skill requirements are a bit tough, though. An alternative could be to drop the Feats for the elven courtblade, Weapon Finess and Power Attack, and grab Weapon Focus (longsword) and True Believer, then take three level of Pious Templar. That gets you mettle and Weapon Specialization with the longsword.
I dunno. Just something to mull over if you'd like.
I did roll good numbers; 17, 16, 16, 14, 10, 9 +6 (my dm rolls a six sided die and lets us distribute it among our rolled numbers- and he rolled a 6) so i could have 3 18s if i wanted, but i feel that it is a bit overpowered (my dm wants me to take the extra +6, but i dont want my friend to complain- he thinks EVERYTHING in dnd is over powered).
the other player for sure in the upcoming campaign is going to be a samurai20. this is his first time playing, and though i tried to get him to cross class, he very adamantly says "why would i need to be anything but a samurai?". good point i suppose. he has a few 18s (rolled amazingly), so it will be a higher powered campaign, with us being like the wheel of times' ta'veren (predestined for greatness). idk.
reguarding the bonus feats a champion gets- they all have to have combat experise, dodge or mounted combat as prereqs. while i dont think thats a bad idea, i havent thought much past champion2 so far.
the snow elf does seem like a good thing, im looking into that now
Maat mons: thin only thing about SHadow Blade is that it only works with one of the disciplines weapons, and im not sure about them for this build, especially when i could use a courtblade or a thinblade. thoughts?
as for dragon #310, my dm isnt letting us use the mags. and he wants an explanation as to why your character is doing this or that, multi classing has got to make sense, etc.
a note on multiclassing. we are able to use 3-4 classes to multi-class, and there is no penalty to xp.
I came up with a couple different ways to enter Champion of Corellon. Both using the spell-less ACF's from Complete Champion.
Paladin of Freedom (Holy Warrior ACF) 4/Fighter 3/Champion of Corellon 10/Dread Commando 3
Ranger (Champion of The Wild & Distracting Attack ACF's) 4/Fighter 3/Champion of Corellon 10/Dread Commando 3
Feats break down pretty much the same way:
1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Courtblade)
3 - Weapon Finesse
4 - Combat Expertise (If Ranger), Mounted Combat (If Paladin) (Bonus Feat)
5 - Dodge
6 - Mounted Combat (If Ranger), Combat Expertise (If Paladin), Power Attack
8 - Mobility (Bonus Feat
9 - Open Feat
11 - Spring Attack (Bonus Feat)
12 - Open Feat
14 - Bounding Assault
15 - Weapon Focus (Elven Courtblade)
17 - Sense Weakness (Bonus Feat)
18 - Rapid Blitz
Dread Commando was selected to help pad the Reflex save a bit more. Skill requirements are a bit tough, though. An alternative could be to drop the Feats for the elven courtblade, Weapon Finess and Power Attack, and grab Weapon Focus (longsword) and True Believer, then take three level of Pious Templar. That gets you mettle and Weapon Specialization with the longsword.
I dunno. Just something to mull over if you'd like.
nice, i like it, though it is heavy armor-based. my question to u is, is it nesecary to have all 10 levels of champion? not sure what distracting attacks is
Champion of Corellon is not just about the Armor benefits .... it gains a lot of Bonus Feats and gives Dex+Str to damage with certain weapons .... most are Finnessable ... thus it makes a great Finnesse Fighter build ...
Wood Elf seems the best entry for this .... but i would do it like this:
Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Swordsage 3/ Champion of Corellon 2
the entry reqs for Champion of Corellon are tough, thats why the fighter levels are there .....
an Alternate Build is this:
Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 2/ Swordsage 3/ Champion of Corellon 2 .... this gives Str+Dex+Int to Damage with Finnessable weapons(Elven Courtblade is a Great pick(2 handed weapon that is Finnessable))
thing about the second build here is that id have to have decent numbers in str, dex, int, AND wis- though i could probly do it. but i dont want to get crazy crazy with the multiclassing, and there has to be a reason. why would a ranger/swordsage/going into champion cross into swash?seems like it doesnt fit to me
The only thing about SHadow Blade is that it only works with one of the disciplines weapons, and im not sure about them for this build, especially when i could use a courtblade or a thinblade.
You'll have at least dex 20. That means shadow blade will give you at least +5 damage. An elven thinblade deals 1 more point of damage more than a short sword. In order for the increased critical threat range to be as valuable as +4 damage, you need to deal 80 average damage on each non-critical hit (or 40 if you plan to use improved critical or keen). This favors shadow hand even more as your dexterity increases.
Let's say you start with str 18 and dex 20. With dex and 1.5*str to damage, you'll deal 16.5 damage on average with an elven courtblade. With str and 2*dex to damage, you'll deal 17.5 damage on average with a short sword. In order for the increased critical threat range to be as valuable as +1 damage, you need to deal 20 average damage on each non-critical hit (or 10 if you plan to use improved critical or keen). Damage with shadow blade increases faster with ability increases than damage with an elven courtblade.
Using a short sword instead of an elven courtblade or thinblade saves you 2 feats, exotic weapon proficiency and weapon finesse (with feycraft). Even after spending a feat on shadow blade, you've still saved 1 feat.
what would the build look like then?
Swordsage 4/Paladin 3/Champion of Corellon 2+? how many levels of champion should i take if this is going to be a light armor class? the level 8 Corellon's Wrath is good, but id have to wade thru a buch of abilities i wouldnt really use (the medium and heavy armor ones).
I could do
Swordsage 4/Paladin 3/Champion of Corellon 2/Paladin 2/Swordsage 9
the extra pally levels are there for the special mount, but i dont have to.
thanks again maat
~katy
nice, i like it, though it is heavy armor-based. my question to u is, is it nesecary to have all 10 levels of champion? not sure what distracting attacks is
Distracting Attack is an alternate class feature from Player's Handbook 2 for Rangers. Replaces your animal companion to basically treat enemies struck by you as being flanked for other characters.
On a completely different note, I came up with this build since you're not wanting to utilize heavy armor (which is about 80% off the class features. So no more than two levels are worth the investment):
Fighter 8/Champion of Corellon 2/Dervish 10
or, alternatively:
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Champion of Corellon 2/Dervish 10/Swashbuckler +1
Feats break down like this:
1 - Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler/Fighter Bonus Feat), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven courtblade)
3 - Weapon Focus (greatsword) - It works with a courtblade, so keep your options broad
6 - Weapon Specialization (greatsword)
9 - Mobility (Champion of Corellon Bonus Feat), Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing)
12 - Open (Power Attack if using Swashbuckler build)
15 - Open
18 - Open
For Fighter Feats:
Straight Fighter build:
2 - Dodge
4 - Combat Expertise
6 - Power Attack
8 - Mounted Combat
Swashbuckler build:
4 - Dodge
5 - Combat Expertise
7 - Mounted Combat
What you end up with is a mobile melee monster. Both versions are playable at all levels, and if you go with the Swashbuckler build, you get Str, Dex, and Int to damage. However it delays your Power Attack until twelfth level (unless you took Melee Weapon Mastery at twelfth and took Power Attack at ninth).
I should thank you, as I never was able to build a two-handed weapon Dervish until this thread.
I think it would work great.this is indeed a nice build! the only problem i forsee though is that the new dm (and the old one) both say u can only have one prc until u hit 20. i think its lame, as long as the prcs make sense, but there it is. also, i really want me some swordsage in there
wow though, dex and str and int with "a thousand cuts", phew! mighty!
Spiral
this is indeed a nice build! the only problem i forsee though is that the new dm (and the old one) both say u can only have one prc until u hit 20. i think its lame, as long as the prcs make sense, but there it is. also, i really want me some swordsage in there
wow though, dex and str and int with "a thousand cuts", phew! mighty!
It drops the primary focus on the thread, but if you like it, you could take his build and make it:
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Swordsage 2/Dervish 10/Swordsage +1 or
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Swordsage 4/Dervish 10/Swordsage +1
That still gets you Dex, Str, and Int to damage (albeit with a more limited weapon set and a feat spent) and picks up the Swordsage you wanted. I don't have access to Dervish at the moment to check on the Dervish abilities, but I belive they just required a slashing weapon.